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Interesting times - changes at Yamato Toys


Tochiro
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I just love how people make excuses to justify why they think they did not overspend for their overpriced purchases... easier to sleep at night, I guess.

I have VF's by both Bandai and Yamato and have no delusions that product from company Y is worth almost 2X more than a similar product from company B. I have overspent on both, but by far, I have overspent far more on Yamatos than on Bandais on a one to one basis because the latest Yamatos are far more expensive than a comparable Bandai. And again, Bandai is an example of what a Yamato could cost because we are comparing apples to apples (VF's of similar, albeit not exactly equal, materials, similar constructions, complexities, manufacturing, assembly, etc., with no quality issues from either company) -- it's not like comparing SOCs to Yammies, so willfully ignoring the price disparity, even in light of many other factors, is silly.

To me it's not about complaining about the price, but honestly looking at what my purchasing money gets in terms of bang for the buck. If I feel an offering from either company is too pricey, I skip it or wait for a sale; but if it's something special that I really want, i'll buy it (Ex: the ludicrously overpriced, under-accessorized VF-4G... did I want it? Yes. Did I buy a copy? Absolutelly. Was it grossly overpriced for what you actually get? Hell yes.).

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So since everyone now knows they've overspent what are we still talking about here?

I'm not making excuses to justify if I overspent or not. Who cares. If someone wants it and they have the means by all means let them get it and let them be. (Too many "means") Why are we still having this conversation and beating this horse to death or to purgatory since its way past that.

If your really looking for bang for the buck, then toys might not be area you want to get into. Some are like crap but since they have the name next to it, its worth something to someone. I.E. 1/65 valks.

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See, that's the thing though. 'Overspending' is just a perception. These toys have no intrinsic value. They're not necessities, they don't save lives, we can't eat them. They're worth only and exactly as much as those of us who buy them feel that they're worth. That's like, basic business/economics 101.

If many of us here pay the asking prices and are satisfied with our purchases, then that's that. If some of us wait for sales before a thing is offered at the price they're willing to pay, that's what that item was worth to them. If somebody buys none of these items because their price 'locks them out of the loop', then that's simply a matter of what they perceived their value at. Make and production are almost irrelevant here, in a way. It all boils down to just what we as collectors are willing to spend, and how much of a priority we want to make these.

I understand if some people might be resentful of the higher prices here, but ultimately, these are collector goods. It's entirely up to the customer what they're willing to pay. These companies HAVE attempted to offer lower-price, smaller alternatives, and the collector market spoke loud and clear with their wallets, that it wasn't worth their time. We can certainly lament that, but again, that's just how this hobby (toy collecting) goes.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but this all started just because one guy said that it's good that Yamato is gone, since all they did was make Macross into a hobby for the collectors only, like an exclusive members-only club, that's where we went off on the "elitist" tangent. Instead, he suggested that now that they are gone, another company like Bandai can take the helm and put Macross back on track, into its rightful place as disposable playthings for children of all ages, affordable by and accessible to any and all families regardless of financial situation.

My opinion is that if that was a viable option, it would have happened already anyway. Yamato did not stand in any other company's way who wanted to go down this path. The reason this hasn't happened is simply because that particular consumer base isn't there. Kids just don't play with toys anymore, they play videogames.

As for the argument about how can Macross be introduced to a new audience otherwise -- Frontier did pretty well among the high-school/college crowd, being a hit before any transformable valk toy was released. There is many a hint to be picked up on there.

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I see my statements have touched a nerve. :blink:

1. i'm not saying that Yamato intentionally did anything wrong or produce a poor product...well except the loose original 1/60s :D

2. I'm not personally attacking anyone on this forum for spending their hard earned cash. We each spend what we want to spend on what we want. For one it might be macross for another it might be something else. Me I spend a lot now on making custom motorcycles.

3. When I refer to elitist, I'm referring to catering to a certain elite socioeconomic class...which Yamato has clearly done. They have chosen which class to cater to while marginalizing other classes. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/elitism this is no different than high end car companies like Mercedes, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. not saying its wrong...only saying it limits your marketplace and those who will follow your product and the anime franchise

4. Yamato has yet to make a decent transformable lower end product. The GNU hardly count as a comparable toy. What kid wants a posable statue in the macross line....they want triple transformation.

5. Bandai, showed promise with their handling of Frontier and with their resources could obviously make cheap kits that can transform. You might have to build it yourself but they could do it. Further they have been brilliant in their recreation of lines that now span, what...34 years?

6. I admit Yamatos products are amazingly detailed, but frankly as a parent its not what I'm looking for in a toy. I have my collection of probably 40 or so valks that will someday get displayed properly but do I hand these to my 3 year old kid? Not likely, not even at 10. I would and I'm sure many others would much rather see the return of a sturdier toy even if it sacrificed some detail just so I can enjoy macross with my kid. I'm sure I'm not alone in this sentiment. I'm also not saying that Yamato or bandai or whoever should abandon their high end lines....they are nice and provide for a niche clientele. I'm basically asking....make something cool, small and new for kids.

7. Not saying that Yamato stood in the way of bandai or anyone else trying to pick up the liscense to make toys.

8. Personally, I'm just kinda tired of Yamatos same old thing. Release something that 90% of fans can't afford or won't purchase, then make a dozen or so repaints some in rediculously obnoxious paint schemes just to milk the elite collectors machine.

9. Also as far as my use of Elite and collectors. I admire your support of the franchise. I admire that you have great jobs and can afford these items. That you often post pics of them to share with others. I have no issues with this...why would I. While I used to collect to that degree, now I place my money elsewhere. Maybe I'll return to collecting to that degree again someday but right now I'd rather be in the wind on two wheels, or playing with my kid and a kids toy, than staring at a statue. Please don't take offense to that...its all one's priorities.

10. I've been on this forum since probably around 1999-2000. Your a great group of people and I'm not trying to personally attack you. Its through your efforts that my favorite anime can continue thanks to your interest and support. I guess I'm just hoping that macross as a franchise can see the need for broadening its horizons and attempting to get a younger market involved. As someone pointed out earlier they've started this with Frontier. I hope it continues. Sometimes as a franchise you need to make a kids show to draw in a younger crowed to revitalize sales of the old shows.

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Yeah, that's the thing. I've been underemployed for many years now. Most of the small money I make is through odd jobs and occasional sales. It's just that any time I do happen to have the resources to spend, I happen to make my collecting hobby a priority. Sometimes at the expense of other things. True, I only own a fairly small number of Valkyries and other toys from Yamato, Bandai (and even Matchbox, haha), but thats fine, I'm happy as it is. It's not really a social class thing.

Again, they've made smaller transforming toys. Toynami has made them, Kaiyodo has made them, Bandai has made them. They don't sell very well. I get where you're coming from, wanting to be able to connect with the kids on this hobby and this series, but that's kind of the thing- The series itself was never geared for younger children in the first place. This isn't Pokemon or Dragonball or Bleach or whatever. Yes, we liked Robotech when we were little kids, but Robotech had been specifically rewritten in many ways to be accessible to us at the time. That's simply not how the actual Macross franchise is now, or has ever been handled. Would it be cool for them to expand into that demographic? Maybe. That's a big maybe, though, and one that would require some pretty major shifts in the entire franchise, from Big West to Studio Neue down to the individual companies merchandising for it. And from a logical business standpoint, I simply do not see that happening in the near or distant future. 'It's not broke, why fix it'

Then again, we've seen the other big mech franchise try just that, and frankly, it did pretty poorly. Gundam Age tried to do just that, repackage the brand to make it more accessible to the younger generation. It's been a pretty obvious ratings and commercial failure (at least judging from how much Age merchendise I've seen go at rock-bottom clearance....) and was the first Gundam show in nearly a decade and a half to run less than 50 episodes. I HIGHLY doubt a less commercial franchise like Macross is going to be jumping at the chance to repeat that attempt.

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6. I admit Yamatos products are amazingly detailed, but frankly as a parent its not what I'm looking for in a toy. I have my collection of probably 40 or so valks that will someday get displayed properly but do I hand these to my 3 year old kid? Not likely, not even at 10. I would and I'm sure many others would much rather see the return of a sturdier toy even if it sacrificed some detail just so I can enjoy macross with my kid. I'm sure I'm not alone in this sentiment. I'm also not saying that Yamato or bandai or whoever should abandon their high end lines....they are nice and provide for a niche clientele. I'm basically asking....make something cool, small and new for kids.

Why should they be wasting their time and resources on grubby little children when they should be catering to MY greedy man-child needs. F*ck kids, it's the adult collector market that keeps this franchise Alive. F*ck you Hasblow and the horse you road in on; no wonder third party is getting all your damn money and...

oh... I seem to have wondered into the wrong thread... on the wrong forum... :unsure:

Edited by anime52k8
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"The Misconception: You prefer the things you own over the things you don’t because you made rational choices when we bought them.

The Truth: You prefer the things you own because you rationalize your past choices to protect your sense of self."

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/05/19/fanboyism-and-brand-loyalty/

*cough*

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Guys, let's be honest here. You can, in no way, shape, or form, can you be called "elitist" if you like to blow tons of cash on plastic toys :p

Us at Macrossworld:

Guy 1: Dude, I just bought like 45x VF-1 cannon fodder from yamato so I can make this awesome massive army squadron thing

Guy 2: WOW! You spent that much money on Macross? Way to be elitist by showing off all your awesome stuff

Translation to the real world:

Guy 1: Wow, I just bought 45 VF-1 cannon fodders from Yamato!

Society: You just spent 4500 dollars on japanese plastic toys derived from an animated cartoon from the 80s <_< .....*condescending judgmental glare*

_______________

The moral of that was that a toy collector cannot be elitist, as he is not purchasing ferraris :)

An elitist when comes to collecting to others collecting toys. Why are so many taking offense. I am called that everyday on the other boards for collecting SOCs FEWTURE getters etc. There are many different tiers of collectors. But hell I admit keeping up with you guys is like chasing a Ferrari in my ford pinto. Which means several things. 1) your single and live at home 2) You have no kids but your women doenst mind. 3) you have a family and make enough to burn cash on uber expensive toys. I built a spreadsheet to track my habit and start limiting myself. In one year I was blown away I had spend $10,000 on my plastic addiction. So I scaled back. Now I find it difficult to sell my items. Because everyone has too much. I got what I wanted from Yamato. Now all I want from Bandai are those blasted armor parts for my VF-25 Michael. I have one v1 armored and am satisfied with 1 v2 Armored Michael. Even if it means getting armor packs from alto. IT just seems to me that the 3PC toys are cheaper in relation to their size than was Yamato. So the size thing doesnt fly, They pegged the huge prices because they knew there were people willing to choke out that money from their wallets. Wait a year or two and they are half the price on HLJ.

Edit: Anyways, it would be nice to see the consumer dictate the price for a change rather than the manufacturer. I find it sad that some really want a VF-25 but need to fork over $300-400 bucks to get one.

Edited by slaginpit
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I honestly don't get where those kids toys argument comes from.

The latest Macross license that Yamato had (form the tv shows) was Macross 7 which is a show from 1994.

No kid today wants something from that era. In addition these shows are not aimed at kids.

If you hand a toy from a mid 90s to a kid he does not want it. He wants something from the current generation.

Like Transformers Prime/Ben10/My little Pony. All his friends have these toys and they are backed up with some kind of

kids friendly media (a TV-Show/Comic/Game). You could try it, give your kid an awesome Freakazoid doll. without any knowledge

what this is and let it play with his friends (who also don't know what it is) with all their cool Naruto toys. The toy will most likely be banned

from any further play activities.

Yamato could not cater to a younger customer base because there is and never will be a 8+ consumer base for SDF/DYRL?/M+/M7.

Never ever!

Edited by Scyla
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While I wish I could afford more collecting, I can't right now. We're coming back up from a recession hit & got a 2nd kid on the way. The most I usually say is "aww, man - wish I could get that."

I don't begrudge those who do have the resources to go nuts on this stuff. I'm a little envious of having the resources, but different lives, different decisions. I might hate kicker's or graham's job, who knows?

As a parent, I wish there were kid friendly Macross toys. Especially after my girl asked if she could have a Valkyrie like mine. I don't need to get anything fancy though - she'll be happy with my old convertors or pullback vf1s. Or the playschool transformers.

In topic, I hope Arcadia continues making vfs, b/c I enjoy seeing how they come together, and that I'll be able to collect more as things even out. And now, I'll just wait for news.

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Too funny.

Honestly I buy Yamato's (and would Arcadia assuming they continue w the high-end market) and Bandai Valks because they're NOT made for kids. They're made for adult collectors who want design aesthetic and playability in one perfectly transformable item.

I hate most, if not all new non-MP Transformers or toy lines geared towards a younger demographic, to my aesthetic taste the items look "blah".

I hope Arcadia continues the lines started by Yamato, but all this other talk is just noise.

Signed an elitist-professionally-gainfully-employed-father of a 16 yr old Son who thinks his Dad's collection of "toys" are the lamest things ever regardless of price.

-b.

And in before the lock.

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Most of us saw robotech when we were under 10. Hell the best most played with toy I had as a kid was probably my Joke machine VF1. That's what I'm talking about a cheap ($6) transformable toy. Yeah it wouldn't be $6 but probably $20-30 but its doable. Is it anime correct hell no...but to be honest I think it was more fun than the 1/55 takatoku I had and I played the hell out of that too.

yes there were changes to robotech to make it more kid friendly. But I can't believe that if a creative, action filled story were presented to kids that they wouldn't watch or want the toys. The impact of Gundam AGE is yet to be really seen but take, gundam wing, and that god awful G-gundam. It introduced kids to gundam which revitalized Zeta, 0079 which paved the way for newer shows like 00.

To be honest, I've always felt that Yamato has just been content with their niche market and fails to have the vision to put a good effort into a lower priced toy. Which is fine...but as a customer that turns me off which is why i haven't purchased a Yamato in 5 years. Swore them off because they just were a disappointment.

Like someone mentioned above...at one point I realized i spent about 7k or so in a year on toys and decided to quit cold turkey. While I still get toys, now since my daughter was born I think about what she might like to Play with when she gets older. Things like figmas. I've also started picking up old joke machines for when I introduce her to Macross.

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I don't think kids would care about Macross. Let's forget the western Disney/ Marvel/ DC/ Transformers for the moment. For younger kids, they like Kamen Riders (or the Power Rangers). Easy to understand, repetitive (which is a merit for very young kids - parents would know how kids ask to repeat a certain song/ story/ movie infinitely), colorful. There is a new show every year, and they see it on TV. They have something to talk about at school. There is something to social about. This creates the demand that they want to know more and own more.

Similar for Gundam. You get new shows every once in a while. And Gundam's dominance is established; if you know something about anime, you know Gundam. Another thing to go social about.

Macross? If you show your toddler Macross and he thinks this is cool, and he rushes to school and tell his friends about it, what happens?

- The others have no idea what is Macross. As it is not on TV, it is not readily accessible. In marketing perspective, a salesman is selling something without an accessible sales channel.

- Their Macross discussion literally ends here. Macross has no value in their social lives.

P.S. Don't we all feel happier to find people to discuss Macross here? We may not need other's approval to like Macross, but we enjoy meeting other fans of this show all the same.

I might have gone off track. My point is, there is not a market in 2013 for children Macross toys.

In fact, as most points out, the toy market is mainly supported by adults. There are still low-end toys around, but even for the so-called cheaper toys like the revoltech ones, I would not have been able to afford two a month if I were a teenager. Not to mention teenagers play video games.

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Good topics with good rebutles on both fronts but its still a cycle that will go on since both sides are willing to take it there. No need for a lock everyone is still civil and there hasn't been any name calling yet. I guess we continue the arguments and discussion until news of the company's direction is revealed.

Lets keep graham and me out of this shall we? Or if you guys want to take it there you might as well add Godzilla, kirik, xstoys, and Kensei in this conversation. (Like how I name drop a few in that sentence. If you guys don't know them, then your too young or too new to this forum) =P

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No need to take this in a nasty way. I've said my piece for what it is and don't feel it necessary to argue since the others make valid points as well. Nice discussion guys. Hopefully its food for thought.

I think we're all in agreement though that we'd like to see more macross stuff made and new series and games. Its discussions like these that may spark an interest for a certain company to broaden its horizons. Thanks.

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and that god awful G-gundam.

Not to derail this top any more than it has been (oh who am I kidding this is purely to drag this into further off-topicness) but how dare you disparage the good name of G Gundam. Them's fighting words right there. Edited by anime52k8
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Not to derail this top any more than it has been (oh who am I kidding this is purely to drag this into further off-topicness) but how dare you disparage the good name of G Gundam. Them's fighting words right there.

Windmill Gundam....Closes all arguments about G-Gundam true awfulness.

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Ok so if we would like to see more affordable and cheaper Macross toys you have to have a larger and younger fan base. If the toys have to be from Arcadia then Arcadia has to embark the same strategy as Bandai. Sponsor a new Macross show get exclusive merchandise rights and hope that it will be popular with the kids (say boys of age 10-14).

I'm not sure if the results would please the Macross fan. I mean you have to cut all the singing because singing about love is dumb. And cut the love-triangle stuff because girls are ugly and stink.

When you look at popular stuff like Naruto you would have endless episodes where nothing happens with 10 minutes recap of the previous episode and 10 minutes preview of the next with 2 minutes of story in the middle.

And I really like the Natruto manga (but that is faster paced so to hell with that). ^_^

I just watched the episodes of SDF-Macross where the earth gets destroyed and man there happens stuff in just one episode. The minds of todays children can not cope with the amount of content in just one episode of SDF-Macross. ;)

But Arcadia is a small company they can't sponsor a TV-show Bandai can. And Bandai sponsors a show to sell toys for it so then again we wont have affordable Macross toys from Arcadia we would have them from Bandai.

So I don't see how Arcadia can make other Macross toys then high priced, high quality collector items.

Arcadia has do make money out of their toy lines and some voices say the Macross line is not profitable enough. That's why we have this discussion at the moment.

I don't see what the could do differently. You have to keep in mind that transformable Macross toys are a niche of a niche even in Japan (as far as I understand it).

:unsure:

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Windmill Gundam....Closes all arguments about G-Gundam true awfulness.

Shining Gundam is, by far, the greatest thing to happen to Gundam since.....well Gundam :)

And hey, Windmill Gundam is at least bioefficient!

OT: Let's stalk talking about random tangential arguments about elitism, and let's get back to the topic at hand. I want to know what's next from Yamato/Arcadia/USS Enterprise/SDF-1, regardless of what their name is!

Edited by Archer
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Sorry K, I only mention you 2 b/c we all know what kickass collections you have. I admire them as one admires a museum collection. You should in no way feel sheepish about showing them off. If there's any audience in the world that would appreciate what you've gathered, it's us & toysdaily!

You've justifiably ignored the repetitive questions of "what do you do to afford all this?" Personally, it doesn't matter to me. My point was simply that we've all got our own histories and made our own decisions to get where we are.

Good for those of us who can collect on this scale. I'm happy with a few, though I still really want a 19F! ;)

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Windmill Gundam....Closes all arguments about G-Gundam true awfulness.

WindmillGundam.jpg

Wow...you are wrong...so wrong. That is like OMG Amazing! If Bandai does not make a 1/6 Scale DX SOC of this then I don't know how I can go on living. :D

I honestly don't get where those kids toys argument comes from.

The latest Macross license that Yamato had (form the tv shows) was Macross 7 which is a show from 1994.

No kid today wants something from that era. In addition these shows are not aimed at kids.

Wait...M7 wasn't a kid's show? Really? People think it was an intelligent, deep show made for adults? With a protagonist who jams on his guitar to defeat the enemy? I watched the first 4 eps of M7 on fan subbed VHS, said to myself "My God they've killed Macross and turned it into kiddie tripe." and never looked back at that awful crap. Hell it almost made Power Rangers look like a show made for adults.

As to the weird direction this thread went....Macross collectors are elitist? Maybe a little bit, and if so who cares? Collecting by nature tends to attract people of moderate, or better, economic means and there is a measure of pride put into one's collecting. And there is nothing wrong with that. And even if people here are elitist it's not even remotely the same as collecting Ferraris, but either way...so what? Instead of decrying Yamato, who have always been a company who focused on the collector's market from day one, maybe people should ask why Bandai has such questionable values, given the absurd Macross savior status they've suddenly been bequeathed in the course of this thread. After all, our new "savior" makes $10-15 toys all the time but doesn't make Macross toys at that price point, makes ~$130 Valks that end up being sold for $300-500 on ebay...see how silly this line of discussion is. Maybe we should back off with all the elitist talk...it's starting to sound a lot like the mental dribble that spills from the mouth of our silver-spoon-fed President and his equally elite cronies.

Nothing about this rebranding says they are done with Macross and the couple of folks "in the know" seem to be saying they have good things planned. So until something new is announced what is there to talk about?

Edited by Lupin The Third
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Sorry K, I only mention you 2 b/c we all know what kickass collections you have. I admire them as one admires a museum collection. You should in no way feel sheepish about showing them off. If there's any audience in the world that would appreciate what you've gathered, it's us & toysdaily!

You've justifiably ignored the repetitive questions of "what do you do to afford all this?" Personally, it doesn't matter to me. My point was simply that we've all got our own histories and made our own decisions to get where we are.

Good for those of us who can collect on this scale. I'm happy with a few, though I still really want a 19F! ;)

No problems here. I'd rather not say what I do for a living because if some of my friends or co workers know what I do with my spare time, they will justifiably turn into the "why would you spend your money on those" crowd. I already get that from my family and in laws (then again they brag about it to their friends' kids about my collection). I've made it a point where I've spread out my earnings through my savings, IRA and other investments (thank my wife for that or else I'd really get out of hand). Some of my friends and co workers chose to spend their earnings on expensive cars etc. I think I've moved on from that ever since my nice car got stolen. So a nice daily driver is fine with me. See I'm already rambling. I'm not that close to anyone on here for me to discuss my history and personal life. So I hope you all understand =)

toysdaily?

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That's the thing. It seems ridiculous until you think about how much women spend on shoes and purses. Some of those things cost double what a VF-4 does and they've got closet full of them. At least you can resell toys after 20 years. Shoes and purses go out of style in one year.

*Hits Buy It Now Button*

feels good...

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That's the thing. It seems ridiculous until you think about how much women spend on shoes and purses. Some of those things cost double what a VF-4 does and they've got closet full of them. At least you can resell toys after 20 years. Shoes and purses go out of style in one year.

*Hits Buy It Now Button*

feels good...

Shoes to girls = Blu ray to me LOL Had to hit the buy it now button for some BD this morning LOL so bad.. so so bad.

Sucks that I have a wall of Anime dvd's and they are no longer worthy anything =(

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Wait...M7 wasn't a kid's show? Really? People think it was an intelligent, deep show made for adults? With a protagonist who jams on his guitar to defeat the enemy? I watched the first 4 eps of M7 on fan subbed VHS, said to myself "My God they've killed Macross and turned it into kiddie tripe." and never looked back at that awful crap. Hell it almost made Power Rangers look like a show made for adults.

That's not what I meant. I saw M7 when I was a Teenager and now I'm 30 something. So there are no kids around who saw M7 because they all grew up.

Besides If you don't get the deep, intelligent overarching story of M7 you're just not mature enough. :lol:

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Shoes to girls = Blu ray to me LOL Had to hit the buy it now button for some BD this morning LOL so bad.. so so bad.

Sucks that I have a wall of Anime dvd's and they are no longer worthy anything =(

Thats why I only buy Macross Blurays, mostly for the extras and box art, not really for the bluray. I end up ripping that or downloading it if I can find it so I'll never have to take it out of the box again. For regular movies it's iTunes download IF I really want it. But no more outdated physical media for me thanks! All my cds and dvds are in the garage. I'm even tempted to buy Macross30, even though I rather spend time in front of the screen to make 3D stuff or to paint.

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