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I finally saw The Force Awakens and I've never had such mixed feelings on a movie before. But it's not a movie you can really dislike. Aside from some questionable stuff with the classic characters, which is on the level of movies like Star Trek Generations and Tron Legacy. If you like the blueprint of Star Wars, you'll like the overall flow of The Force Awakens. Which is probably why I found myself watching it a few times so far. And of course it feels like Star Wars, not like the Prequels didn't feel like Star Wars, because so much in The Force Awakens is from the Original Trilogy. It's definitely the best of the JJ Abrams movies that I've seen too. But it's like if someone tells you to make a movie, drawing, painting, of your favorite artist's work and then they give you that artist's rough draft or sketch. A lot of your work is already done. I think George Lucas said it best that The Force Awakens is retro and that he tried to bring more and new things to his movies.

Where it fits in the Star Wars universe is odd. I'll probably write a massive review for myself and a few friends. It's definitely not better than any of the Original Trilogy movies. But since it uses the Original Trilogy as a blueprint, by default that makes it better than the Prequels. Though unlike Star Wars, if that movie failed, you still had a really good stand alone movie. The Force Awakens sets so much up for the sequels that we need those next movies to see how it will all end.

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Well, I agree that The Force Awakens has a lot of callbacks to the original trilogy, but IMHO I think it does a few of them better.

It's my favorite SW movie so far with A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back a close 2nd and 3rd.

:ph34r:

-b.

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I didn't like the shoehorn of Luke at the end, the too convenient R2 awakening, and the star killer base being just a bigger death star... three death stars is too much. So I'd stop short of putting above the original trilogy.

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I didn't like the shoehorn of Luke at the end, the too convenient R2 awakening, and the star killer base being just a bigger death star... three death stars is too much. So I'd stop short of putting above the original trilogy.

Very fair.

I wouldn't even argue or debate with others re: why they like or dislike Episode VII or about some of the really obvious borrowing from the the Original Trilogy.

In my case I lost my nostalgia vision for the OT a long time ago and the PT was only good in various scenes here and there but taken as a whole they were horrible.

The Force Awakens made me actually care about Star Wars as a property - like I did as a young kid when watching IV through VII.

-b.

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I didn't like the shoehorn of Luke at the end, the too convenient R2 awakening, and the star killer base being just a bigger death star... three death stars is too much. So I'd stop short of putting above the original trilogy.

I'm not sure how you see Luke's reveal at the end as being shoehorned in. The entire plot is about finding him.

The R2 awakening isn't convenient; even in low-power mode, he's alerted to the presence of the map when BB-8 first goes to him, and begins to search through his data banks for the rest of the map. However, I would say that this is not made very clear in the film, and they should have shown some twinkling of life within R2 after BB-8 first interacts with him.

As for Starkiller Base, I'm not sure why so many people focus on it. This isn't the original Star Wars; the base is a subplot at best and doesn't drive the main narrative. Even the Resistance sees it as just another battle station to be taken out. It's simply a large piece of military hardware.

Edited by Duke Togo
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I say 'shoehorn' because it felt forced. Like they backed themselves into a place where they felt they HAD to show Luke (and to be fair, they might have given all the hype of Mark Hamill being part of the new trilogy). For me, the movie felt like it would have ended better if it ended with the next logical step being the effort to go find Luke. The last shot is just kinda "Huh, so that happened." It honestly felt like they just had a couple films on one reel and they let it spin just a little too far.

Starkiller Base is just plain in simple one trip too many to the well. If it didn't exist, I think you'd hear about half as much grumbling about this film being too derivative to the first film. The scene that made me audibly groan was when they showed "Death Star 1, Death Star 2, and Star Killer" on the screen as if you were ordering soft drinks at a fast food restaurant. As if the problem all along with the original Death Star was that it was too small and that these BIGGER bases are far scarier than the moon-sized, planet-destroying, original base. Then again, the original base could only destroy one planet at a time and this one kills like six nameless planets simultaneously so it fits the bigger is better mold. I don't know, I would have preferred if the First Order Armageddon device was something far more guerrilla in nature... or just something different then a giant planet killing sphere. Imagine if every Harry Potter book ended up with Harry fighting the same incarnation of Voldemort (I really shouldn't reference Harry Potter since I just watched the movies).

All that said, I really liked it, just felt it had some warts. Obviously the first three could be picked apart as well and I'm still a huge fan of those, ewoks and all.

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I didn't like the shoehorn of Luke at the end, the too convenient R2 awakening, and the star killer base being just a bigger death star... three death stars is too much. So I'd stop short of putting above the original trilogy.

When I heard that The Force Awakens was basically a remake and since Luke wasn't on the poster, I assumed he wouldn't have much of a role. And at the beginning the titles pretty much confirmed that he wasn't going be in it much since they had to find him. Which is one of the big questions for the sequel that needs to be handled in a good way since Return of the Jedi was a big deal. Evidently the Jedi didn't return and stay around that long.

Anyway, I thought R2 was for some strange reason waiting on Rey. It's all guess work and they could do anything but the first possibility would make Rey, Luke's daughter. I originally thought she was related to Leia from the posters because of her staff weapon and mask which I thought were similar to Boushh. But then I think Luke would mention a daughter to Han and Leia. Or Rey is Luke's best apprentice that happened to get mind wiped for safety, as Rey does vaguely remember the island. Or another option, Rey is a new line or "chosen one" as there was a voice that said "these are the first steps" after she picked up Anakin & Luke's lightsaber.

One question which also needs to be answered is, if it was a mistake that there were sound effects of people crying when Finn was getting ready to leave the planet. From the poster, I originally thought Finn was going to be Luke's spy on the inside. I never thought he would be a normal Stormtrooper. I think he's probably a Force user and if he is, that would confirm that R2 isn't just waiting on someone who can use The Force but someone specific. But who knows, it's all hopefully going to be answered in a good way for the sequel.

In my case I lost my nostalgia vision for the OT a long time ago and the PT was only good in various scenes here and there but taken as a whole they were horrible.

The Force Awakens made me actually care about Star Wars as a property - like I did as a young kid when watching IV through VII.

-b.

Is your "nostalgia vision" the same as growing older? I've read people talking about nostalgia clouding things or growing out of things. But I don't think that's true for something you really like. I still watch Star Wars and many old movies. I still watch Robotech. I did sell many of my vintage Star Wars figures and vehicles. But only because I had a feeling that better versions were coming out and that compared to other vintage figures like G.I. Joe, the Star Wars figures weren't that detailed. I did keep a few vintage carded figures like Jedi Luke though. And I have a few prop replicas. From The Force Awakens, the only thing I looked for after seeing the movie was a toy of Poe's Black Leader X-Wing. But the toys are very poor. They even have a problem with bent wing blasters. So I'm hoping for a high end version from I guess eFx or some other company. I did watch some Master Replicas Millennium Falcon reviews on youtube. When they released it, I couldn't decide if I wanted it. It goes for way too much if you can get one these days though.

The R2 awakening isn't convenient; even in low-power mode, he's alerted to the presence of the map when BB-8 first goes to him, and begins to search through his data banks for the rest of the map. However, I would say that this is not made very clear in the film, and they should have shown some twinkling of life within R2 after BB-8 first interacts with him.

As for Starkiller Base, I'm not sure why so many people focus on it. This isn't the original Star Wars; the base is a subplot at best and doesn't drive the main narrative. Even the Resistance sees it as just another battle station to be taken out. It's simply a large piece of military hardware.

Where did you hear this about R2? I'm slowly going through the topic now from back before the movie was released. But I believe the first time BB-8 goes to R2, C3PO says something about him not waking up. When they come back after the battle, then he wakes up.

The whole map thing is crazy to me though. Luke needs a really good reason for hiding / sitting out. I can't see him losing to Kylo Ren. And Leia and Han know about Snoke. Unfortunately we don't until the sequel.

I didn't know people had a problem with the Starkiller base. I just saw it as another Death Star on the poster. And yet another thing that made this movie more like the Original Trilogy. The Empire / First Order likes planet destroying bases. I wouldn't be surprised if there is another one for Part 9. The big what moment for me was when the First Order decides to recharge the weapon and they show it charging from a sun! I was like what?! But then I remembered that Naboo's power source was that planet's core so I thought fine. I guess they wanted to do nothing similar to the Prequels and make a planet around a sun. So they just thought we'll recharge by pulling the sun's energy.

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The R2 info is from JJ, and I also believe it's in the book. I chalk up its vagueness to Kasdan, who was pushing JJ pretty hard to quicken the pace of the film and to trust the audience to fill in the blanks. It's why it's never made clear in the film what the relationship between the Resistance, the Republic, and the First Order is. Scenes detailing that information were filmed, but later cut, and we were all left confused until info from the book started getting around.

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*snip*

Is your "nostalgia vision" the same as growing older? I've read people talking about nostalgia clouding things or growing out of things. But I don't think that's true for something you really like. I still watch Star Wars and many old movies. I still watch Robotech. I did sell many of my vintage Star Wars figures and vehicles. But only because I had a feeling that better versions were coming out and that compared to other vintage figures like G.I. Joe, the Star Wars figures weren't that detailed. I did keep a few vintage carded figures like Jedi Luke though. And I have a few prop replicas. From The Force Awakens, the only thing I looked for after seeing the movie was a toy of Poe's Black Leader X-Wing. But the toys are very poor. They even have a problem with bent wing blasters. So I'm hoping for a high end version from I guess eFx or some other company. I did watch some Master Replicas Millennium Falcon reviews on youtube. When they released it, I couldn't decide if I wanted it. It goes for way too much if you can get one these days though.

*snip

Yes, exactly the same as getting older - or becoming more "mature". It's funny you bring up G.I. Joe and Star Wars toys. For me I don't look at them the same now that I'm older. I like to think it's because that now that I'm older I have a more refined taste or aesthetic so I look at S.H. Figuarts vs. Hasbro or Arcadia/Yamato/Bandai - Macross vs. Toynami or old Matchbox - Robotech.

I like the OT Star Wars movies, but it's not the same as I was when I was a kid. I can't even watch old G.I. Joe or most other cartoons from my childhood without cringing.

The Force Awakens fixes this issue for me, it includes enough of the OT elements so there is familiarity but it updates them so that it appeals to the adult me.

I just fully acknowledge that for many, that familiarity could be viewed as far too derivative of the OT.

The R2 info is from JJ, and I also believe it's in the book. I chalk up its vagueness to Kasdan, who was pushing JJ pretty hard to quicken the pace of the film and to trust the audience to fill in the blanks. It's why it's never made clear in the film what the relationship between the Resistance, the Republic, and the First Order is. Scenes detailing that information were filmed, but later cut, and we were all left confused until info from the book started getting around.

This is definitely a "wart" for the film and something that I personally dislike out of an overall very positive view of the movie.

-b.

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The R2 info is from JJ, and I also believe it's in the book. I chalk up its vagueness to Kasdan, who was pushing JJ pretty hard to quicken the pace of the film and to trust the audience to fill in the blanks. It's why it's never made clear in the film what the relationship between the Resistance, the Republic, and the First Order is. Scenes detailing that information were filmed, but later cut, and we were all left confused until info from the book started getting around.

That bit about R2 should have been clearer then. I would think that most people would assume R2 woke up because of Rey. Odd that it slipped by when they edited and viewed the movie. The sequels will really make or break the whole thing for me depending on how they handle Luke's situation.

I guessed from the opening crawl and the speech before the First Order fired the weapon, that The Republic basically let the Resistance do their thing. Kind of like how similar things happen in our world today.

Yes, exactly the same as getting older - or becoming more "mature". It's funny you bring up G.I. Joe and Star Wars toys. For me I don't look at them the same now that I'm older. I like to think it's because that now that I'm older I have a more refined taste or aesthetic so I look at S.H. Figuarts vs. Hasbro or Arcadia/Yamato/Bandai - Macross vs. Toynami or old Matchbox - Robotech.

I like the OT Star Wars movies, but it's not the same as I was when I was a kid. I can't even watch old G.I. Joe or most other cartoons from my childhood without cringing.

The Force Awakens fixes this issue for me, it includes enough of the OT elements so there is familiarity but it updates them so that it appeals to the adult me.

I just fully acknowledge that for many, that familiarity could be viewed as far too derivative of the OT.

-b.

Yeah. I guess for me what happened was, like many kids a lot of my toys were thrown out. I wanted some of those toys back because I knew things like Star Wars would be popular again. So I went searching and got my favorite figures and vehicles back. I was basically doing The Toy Hunter more than 20 years ago. I only wish I got multiples to sell. But to this day, I still remember and try to find some of my old toys that were good. I got an old Super Go Bot last year that was still new in box.

A lot of those old toys are pretty bad though. I don't want those old Robotech toys. I do have one or two SD Veritechs around though. I thought those were the coolest with the rotating cockpits. There was a celebrity on Toy Hunter that had the full original Star Wars figure set unopened. He said he purchased them when he was young but never opened them because he knew the figures were bad. But I think he said he liked the movie and packaging so decided to collect all of them.

I love the old G.I. Joe cartoons. I still watch the animated movie from time to time. I think this year they have a G.I. Joe comic Artist Edition coming out. I can't wait to get that. Also a company called Prime One announced G.I. Joe statues. They will be expensive though. I think their stuff so far is more expensive than Sideshow Collectible statues.

Edited by JetJockey
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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

was just rewatching this and lol is that QT-KT?

*edit - ok, just looked it up,, technically it's R2-KT,, which is essentially the same droid, but designated QT in clone wars to avoid confusion with the "R2s"

post-10971-0-14361500-1473110998_thumb.jpg

Edited by Negotiator
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  • 2 months later...

was just rewatching this and lol is that QT-KT?

*edit - ok, just looked it up,, technically it's R2-KT,, which is essentially the same droid, but designated QT in clone wars to avoid confusion with the "R2s"

Yup that's her. It's still awesome and heartbreaking at the same time knowing the behind the scenes story of KT existance. :(

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  • 1 month later...

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