Sega fans

[Jolly Rogers]

Sammy, the Japanese pachinko company, recently became Sega's largest shareholder by purchasing shares after merger talks fell apart last year. According to the news article cited below, they want Sega to scale back home console title development in order to focus on the more profitable arcade side of business:

News on Sammy's plans for Sega

I dunno about you, but this stinks since I don't even go to arcades these days. The only Sega products I enjoy now are console games.

[Winkle]

Wow, Sega just keeps fading. I remember the days when the Genesis was number one in the console market. Then they ditched the console business since they couldn't compete with Sony and Nintendo and how they're fading out of the software market too. How the mighty have fallen.

[Druna Skass]

Damn, and here I thought Sega was going to be a dominant player in the software buisness...

[yellowlightman]

Sega's been plagued with bad business decisions since the days of the Saturn, and recently they've spent a lot of time trying to fix that and get themselves back on track.

For Sammy, strengthening Sega's arcade assets make sense. For one thing, Sega's arcade division turned a profit last quarter whereas their software division didn't. Also, Sammy's main business is pachino... and ideally thats pretty similar to arcades.

I'm worried that Sammy is gonna misuse Sega's properties as a way to strengthen their pachinko business... something Aruze did when they bought out SNK.

[Winkle]

For Sammy, strengthening Sega's arcade assets make sense. For one thing, Sega's arcade division turned a profit last quarter whereas their software division didn't. Also, Sammy's main business is pachino... and ideally thats pretty similar to arcades.

Excuse my asking... especially if this is a newbie question but what exactly is pachino?

[Druna Skass]

For Sammy, strengthening Sega's arcade assets make sense. For one thing, Sega's arcade division turned a profit last quarter whereas their software division didn't. Also, Sammy's main business is pachino... and ideally thats pretty similar to arcades.

Excuse my asking... especially if this is a newbie question but what exactly is pachino?

Al Pachino?

[Jolly Rogers]

It's pachinko. This site does a better job at explaining it then I can:

Pachinko explained

It's quite popular in Japan and a lot of businessmen go to pachinko parlors after their workday is over to relax. It's basically the Japanese version of slot machine.

[Graham]

This worries me, as it may effect plans for a sequel to the recent Bandai / Sega-AM2, PS2 Macross game.

Graahm

[TheLoneWolf]

I don't think this will affect any possible Macross games in the future. IIRC, Bandai commissioned Sega/AM2 to do Macross. If Bandai is willing to foot the bill, I don't see why Sammy would refuse. Everyone loves money. Or, Bandai could find another company willing to make a Macross sequel.

Worst case scenario, if Sega is relegated to arcades strictly, wouldn't it be nice to see a new Macross arcade game.

Edited December 11, 2003 by TheLoneWolf

[Graham]

Worst case scenario, if Sega is relegated to arcades strictly, wouldn't it be nice to see a new Macross arcade game.

A new Macross arcade game might not make it outside of Japan with the HG/BW licensing issues. Even without the legal issues it probably wouldn't be very widespread anyway.

Also, personally, I have no interest in arcade games. I haven't been to an arcade in nearly a decade. Hate wasting money on the things. Much rather play a console game in the comfort of my home. At least I don't have to keeping feeding coins into a console every five minutes

Graham

[Abombz!!]

This worries me, as it may effect plans for a sequel to the recent Bandai / Sega-AM2, PS2 Macross game.

Graahm

Honestly.... I wouldn't be on bit worried about that. As much as Sega is a good company... there are much better ones out there. Its really up to Bandai to shop around. I can bet you anyone other then Bandai is capable of making a good Macross game.

As for this whole deal.... I say BS. This is extremely stupid... really. Sammy is pretty much cutting down a large amount of profit they could make out of console games.

[F-ZeroOne]

It's pachinko. This site does a better job at explaining it then I can:

Pachinko explained

It's quite popular in Japan and a lot of businessmen go to pachinko parlors after their workday is over to relax. It's basically the Japanese version of slot machine.

IIRC, pachinko is a word derived from the sounds made when firing one of the little metal balls into the machine (similar to the way the word gashapon came about).

If, after reading the explanation, you're baffled as to why pachinko is such a huge industry in Japan, well... you're not alone. I've played a pachinko machine, and well... I think my Dads theory is the closest to the truth: a pachinko parlour is somewhere where the harrassed Japanese person can just sit down and do nothing but flick a switch for hours...!

[buddhafabio]

pachinko is huge in japan. when i lived in okinawa from 88-92 the pachinko parlors were every where (as much as the love motels).

to put it in presective in american terms the parlors were as speckled as mcdonalds in american citys

Edited December 11, 2003 by buddhafabio

[Winkle]

Ah thanks, that helps clear it up.

I know what it is now, they showed it in an episode of Great Teacher Onizuka and I always wondered what that was.

[Abombz!!]

Pachinko is one of the only legal forms of gambling in Japan.... its huge indeed.

[mark-1s]

That's great for Sega's Japanese market, but the North American arcade business is practically dead. It would be a pretty bad move for them to slow console game developement down for the sake fo appeasing their investors. Sega has made some really good games the last couple of years, most noteably their NFLxK series, and that Macross game Graham mentioned looks pretty good as well.

-1s.

[Mr March]

I was under the impression Sega's big money maker was video slots and games anyway. For years I've seen lots of Sega machines at Casinos and sports bars. They gotta be making a killing with those markets, so why not expand into them? Of course, I'm very sad to see Sega leave the console market, since I'm a fan of their Dreamcast and many of their titles from the Master System/Genesis days.

[Abombz!!]

I was under the impression Sega's big money maker was video slots and games anyway. For years I've seen lots of Sega machines at Casinos and sports bars. They gotta be making a killing with those markets, so why not expand into them? Of course, I'm very sad to see Sega leave the console market, since I'm a fan of their Dreamcast and many of their titles from the Master System/Genesis days.

I don't know how much dropping off the hardware market hurt Sega.... but they make alot of things besides video games.

[Commander McBride]

Some may not be into arcade games, but there are some things that just can't be done properly on consoles. A good example is racing games. Initial D is a pretty awesome game in the arcade, when sitting in the racing seat and sing the high quality wheel, etc, but is merely average as a PS2 game. The same goes for many racing games. It just costs a huge amount of money to have such an elaborate setup.

Another example is gun games. Sure, you can play them on a TV, but unless you're loaded, you don't have a 60" flatscreen to play on. And games like Time Crisis just aren't as fun when you don't have the pedal. Or how about crisis zone? It revolves around the use of the SMG, playing it with a pistol would be no fun, requiring purchase of an SMG light gun. And how about that cop game with the sensors, where you can move an duck down to take cover. That'd never work on a console.

And all the music games. DDR for example. It costs a couple hundered to have a really good setup, with the good pad, and that's if you have somewhere to put it. Or Guitar Freaks, that's a huge peripheral, as is the one from any drumming game. And don't even think of having a Para Para machine in your house!

And who has the money to make a setup like the one in Sega Strike Fighter? Sure, 80 bucks will bring you a HOTAS, but then you're stuck in a computer chair looking at a little monitor. And the Airline Pilot game has a whole bunch more controls, which would cost even more money to do.

In other words, arcades have a definite purpose in modern gaming. And putting money into them will allow more interesting games to come out, ones that can't be done, or aren't as fun, on the console. So, all of you who don't go to arcades, you're missing out.

[Jolly Rogers]

As for this whole deal.... I say BS. This is extremely stupid... really. Sammy is pretty much cutting down a large amount of profit they could make out of console games.

Did you even bother to read the original article? The only reason Sammy is going that route is because Sega's making more money on their arcade side of business than home console title development. So what if they are "cutting down a large amount of profit they could make out of console games" when they get an even larger amount of profit out of making arcade games in exchange.

Given the limited development resources, I don't blame them for wanting to maximize profit by shifting more people and budget from console development to the arcade side.

Edited December 11, 2003 by Jolly Rogers

[Duke Togo]

Wow, Sega just keeps fading. I remember the days when the Genesis was number one in the console market.

That was for what, about 5 days?

[Abombz!!]

As for this whole deal.... I say BS. This is extremely stupid... really. Sammy is pretty much cutting down a large amount of profit they could make out of console games.

Did you even bother to read the original article? The only reason Sammy is going that route is because Sega's making more money on their arcade side of business than home console title development. Given the limited development resources, I don't blame them for wanting to maximize profit by shifting more people and budget from console development to the arcade side.

Yeah... but the sales numbers I saw on the gamespot article were based on console sales before Sega had actually gained a strong foothold on the software market (1 year after killing the DC). And I simply said what I did because Sega already makes a ton of money on arcades... regardless of console development. And so does Sammy with Pachinko machines. It seems to me that Sammy is greedingly trying to take the pot of honey all for themselves.... and screw the rest. And thats just stupid... IMO.

If you make so much money already... why would you cut the console game development branch? Seriously.... so Sega had loses in the past... but they are out of the red already... gee.

All I'm saying is... theres no need to cut down in console game development.

Edited December 11, 2003 by Abombz!!

[Abombz!!]

Some may not be into arcade games, but there are some things that just can't be done properly on consoles. A good example is racing games. Initial D is a pretty awesome game in the arcade, when sitting in the racing seat and sing the high quality wheel, etc, but is merely average as a PS2 game. The same goes for many racing games. It just costs a huge amount of money to have such an elaborate setup.

Another example is gun games. Sure, you can play them on a TV, but unless you're loaded, you don't have a 60" flatscreen to play on. And games like Time Crisis just aren't as fun when you don't have the pedal. Or how about crisis zone? It revolves around the use of the SMG, playing it with a pistol would be no fun, requiring purchase of an SMG light gun. And how about that cop game with the sensors, where you can move an duck down to take cover. That'd never work on a console.

And all the music games. DDR for example. It costs a couple hundered to have a really good setup, with the good pad, and that's if you have somewhere to put it. Or Guitar Freaks, that's a huge peripheral, as is the one from any drumming game. And don't even think of having a Para Para machine in your house!

And who has the money to make a setup like the one in Sega Strike Fighter? Sure, 80 bucks will bring you a HOTAS, but then you're stuck in a computer chair looking at a little monitor. And the Airline Pilot game has a whole bunch more controls, which would cost even more money to do.

In other words, arcades have a definite purpose in modern gaming. And putting money into them will allow more interesting games to come out, ones that can't be done, or aren't as fun, on the console. So, all of you who don't go to arcades, you're missing out.

But think about it. If you have a company that makes arcade games only, and Sega does them all the time with ease, if you take Sega and tell them to concentrate on Arcade... wouldn't they be competing against themselves? How many more Arcade games do you ppl expect Sega to pull? Its like relocating sources to a branch that does not need the extra "man power". <_<

[Jolly Rogers]

I don't deny that I hate what Sammy is doing, but if you look at it from their perspective, Sammy makes pachinko machines. They can only stay in business if people go out to have fun instead of staying at home. By forcing Sega to increase arcade output and reduce home titles output, they're working towards that agenda.

Sega should have jumped at the chance when Namco expressed an interest in a merger.

[Abombz!!]

I don't deny that I hate what Sammy is doing, but if you look at it from their perspective, Sammy makes pachinko machines. They can only stay in business if people go out to have fun instead of staying at home. By forcing Sega to increase arcade output and reduce home titles output, they're working towards that agenda.

Sega should have jumped at the chance when Namco expressed an interest in a merger.

I agree completly.... I'm just saying that Sammy seems to be dumping all Segas resources into a branch that doesn't need them. Unlike the console branch.... Segas arcade branch has always been able to pull out quality Arcade games.

Sure.... cutting down would be great to help filter the crap that gets released once in a while (Gunvalkyrie and Sonice Adventure DX come to mind).... but gee.... it sounds like we are going to get 1 release a year or something. <_<

[StealthLurker]

Mmmmmmm.... does this mean we'll be seeing SEGA games on Sammy's Atomiswave arcade board? This is excellent timing, considering I just ordered a Sammy Atomiswave arcade board + Guilty Gear v1.5 kit. With possibly SEGA and SNKP in league w/ Sammy there could be some really nice games on this hardware.

[Mr March]

I was under the impression Sega's big money maker was video slots and games anyway.  For years I've seen lots of Sega machines at Casinos and sports bars.  They gotta be making a killing with those markets, so why not expand into them?  Of course, I'm very sad to see Sega leave the console market, since I'm a fan of their Dreamcast and many of their titles from the Master System/Genesis days.

I don't know how much dropping off the hardware market hurt Sega.... but they make alot of things besides video games.

What else does Sega do?

[ChrisG]

I don't see this as very surprising, nor is it necessarily a bad move. Sega's president has said before that in their reorganization their plan to return to profit is to release fewer games, but games that are of higher quality. Sega has lots of console franchises that I doubt will be affected by this. There will always be Sonic or ESPN, etc. I'm sure the quality of their games will be just as good as before. The only thing I ask of Sega is that they finally get off their asses and let Yu Suzuki make Shenmue III.

[yellowlightman]

Mmmmmmm.... does this mean we'll be seeing SEGA games on Sammy's Atomiswave arcade board? This is excellent timing, considering I just ordered a Sammy Atomiswave arcade board + Guilty Gear v1.5 kit. With possibly SEGA and SNKP in league w/ Sammy there could be some really nice games on this hardware.

Yeah, we'll definately be seeing more games on the Atomiswave arcade board. Which is a little... I dunno, I have mixed feelings. Basically the Atomiswave is just repackaged Dreamcast hardware so it's a bit ironic... but it's also inferior to newer stuff. The benefit is that it's really cheap and I saw an article talking about how it would allow them to make money in developing countries.

As for the whole arcade vs. console thing... It's not liek Sega is going to be ignoring the console division... but for the time being their arcade games have been much more successful (so many XBox games probably hurt them...) so Sammy just wants them to focus on what is profitable so that they can actually make money.

[Jolly Rogers]

As much as Sega is a good company... there are much better ones out there. Its really up to Bandai to shop around. I can bet you anyone other then Bandai is capable of making a good Macross game.

What about the people who made Macross M3?

[yellowlightman]

As much as Sega is a good company... there are much better ones out there. Its really up to Bandai to shop around. I can bet you anyone other then Bandai is capable of making a good Macross game.

What about the people who made Macross M3?

That was made by bandai...

[Seven]

Sega's been plagued with bad business decisions since the days of the Saturn, and recently they've spent a lot of time trying to fix that and get themselves back on track.

For Sammy, strengthening Sega's arcade assets make sense. For one thing, Sega's arcade division turned a profit last quarter whereas their software division didn't. Also, Sammy's main business is pachino... and ideally thats pretty similar to arcades.

I'm worried that Sammy is gonna misuse Sega's properties as a way to strengthen their pachinko business... something Aruze did when they bought out SNK.

I wouldn't be worried about Sammy at all. Seeing as how they opened a bigass new building in San Diego and are ramping up game development by an incredible amount, they aren't planning on being small time players in the game industry.

If anything they are going to be more stable due to their pachinko income and that should enable them to be in it for the long run. As opposed to most companies that are solely dependent on their game titles or hardware for income and stabilization.

[Jolly Rogers]

As much as Sega is a good company... there are much better ones out there. Its really up to Bandai to shop around. I can bet you anyone other then Bandai is capable of making a good Macross game.

What about the people who made Macross M3?

That was made by bandai...

Where did you get that from? It's made by Shoeisha and nowhere on the package does it say Bandai (yes I paid for my copy).

[yellowlightman]

As much as Sega is a good company... there are much better ones out there. Its really up to Bandai to shop around. I can bet you anyone other then Bandai is capable of making a good Macross game.

What about the people who made Macross M3?

That was made by bandai...

Where did you get that from? It's made by Shoeisha and nowhere on the package does it say Bandai (yes I paid for my copy).

Damn, you're right. Sorry about that.

[Jolly Rogers]

Here's an update... Sega's already lost some of their biggest assets - brains - in the aftermath of the Sammy takeover:

- Tetsuya Mizuguchi (creator of Sega Rally, Rez and Space Channel 5)

- Rikiya Nakagawa (development leader of The House of the Dead and Sega GT)

There should be a deathpool on who's the next to leave Sega.