The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[David Hingtgen]

Honestly, it's what I've always wanted from Transformer toys. It's why I like the DMK releases from Takara so much.

I don't really care about rolling a truck around on the floor, or running around the house with yet another jet. Not as a kid and certainly not as an adult. I want Transformer robot modes that look exactly like they're shown on the cartoons or on the big screen.

-b.

Understandable---but so many people want that look, yet also utterly refuse to accept "non-transforming" figures that would be just like that. TF's have even more anime magic than valks do, you simply can't have a tansforming figure that has screen-accurate robot modes.

A lot of people want the utter impossibility of "perfectly screen-accurate---while also transforming". That will never, ever, happen. And since one MUST compromise robot mode looks to enable transformation at all, period---might as well try to do the best job possible in balancing the two forms, because transforming yet looking awful in alt-mode is pointless---then you've got nothing, might as well have just skipped transforming.

You can either have perfect-looking robots, or good-looking transformers. Not both. And sacrificing all of vehicle mode's looks for the robot mode is kinda pointless--because at that point it'll look so bad that no one will want to transform it---and you should have just made a non-transforming robot that looks really, really good to start with.

[Valkyrie2008]

That's a cool animation!

[Silverstreak]

Understandable---but so many people want that look, yet also utterly refuse to accept "non-transforming" figures that would be just like that. TF's have even more anime magic than valks do, you simply can't have a tansforming figure that has screen-accurate robot modes.A lot of people want the utter impossibility of "perfectly screen-accurate---while also transforming". That will never, ever, happen. And since one MUST compromise robot mode looks to enable transformation at all, period---might as well try to do the best job possible in balancing the two forms, because transforming yet looking awful in alt-mode is pointless---then you've got nothing, might as well have just skipped transforming.You can either have perfect-looking robots, or good-looking transformers. Not both. And sacrificing all of vehicle mode's looks for the robot mode is kinda pointless--because at that point it'll look so bad that no one will want to transform it---and you should have just made a non-transforming robot that looks really, really good to start with.

[Kanedas Bike]

Understandable---but so many people want that look, yet also utterly refuse to accept "non-transforming" figures that would be just like that. TF's have even more anime magic than valks do, you simply can't have a tansforming figure that has screen-accurate robot modes.

A lot of people want the utter impossibility of "perfectly screen-accurate---while also transforming". That will never, ever, happen. And since one MUST compromise robot mode looks to enable transformation at all, period---might as well try to do the best job possible in balancing the two forms, because transforming yet looking awful in alt-mode is pointless---then you've got nothing, might as well have just skipped transforming.

You can either have perfect-looking robots, or good-looking transformers. Not both. And sacrificing all of vehicle mode's looks for the robot mode is kinda pointless--because at that point it'll look so bad that no one will want to transform it---and you should have just made a non-transforming robot that looks really, really good to start with.

Yeah, no arguments here and I get the "why" behind the way Transformer toys are designed and produced the way they are. I was just saying "I would" to the idea of buying a renewed, well executed (design, playability, etc.) line of Action Masters/DMK or similar product.

And

@Gakken -

-b.

[Gakken85]

I don't think you can really say what we can or can't have... especially on a project that was passed off from one designer to another and obviously has problems. (buttflaps and bad poses aside) There are several different ways to design anything, and this way seems inferior.

You're presenting a false dichotomy that isn't even the real issue with Ultra Fattimus. The real issue is that he wasn't designed smart and instead of an accurate and fun looking bot mode with scale (Which again, is the desired aim of the line) you have a truck mode that looks "good" even though there are no real design constraints on a fictional truck. I don't know of any freightliner car carrier with missiles. Nothing looks like ultra magnus in truck mode so there are no constraints other than the G1. They over balanced one mode to fit one semi-interesting gimmick that most people won't use. I've never even put a car in the back of my MP-10, and the trailer stays in the box. Maybe their are people that do, but they could have suffered for a better toy. I think most people would have given space for a car or two for a better looking toy with less kibble.

Not Ultra Magnus:

You can have great transformers, and great looking robots, you just have to charge more and push innovation. Everything is possible with time and money.

You think kids in the 80's would have believed that a VF-1J v2 would ever exist?

Anyway, He isn't a perfect looking robot in anybodies description, and he isn't a good-looking transformer either. The pre-order pages prove that. Nobody is scrambling to get UM because he looks like bantha poo-doo. People are just accepting this because A. they are Ultra Magnus fans and don't care how it looks, or B. It's good enough and why complain right?

Alt mode consistency has to go eventually if any combiners are to be made. That's not to say it wouldn't look like the object it's suppose to be disguised as, but you can't have alt mode in a "scale" with other alt modes. It's pointless.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Gakken85

[Kanedas Bike]

Sure, a lot can be accomplished when you remove constraints like time, design innovation, and money but we unfortunately we don't live in that world.

And that said, for me, I like a more accurate Transformer robot mode over all else. If a toy doesn't fit my criteria of that then I don't buy it and it's no skin off of my nose.

Macross does it better anyway.

PS - Magnus looks fine to me, if anything the pre-orders on HLJ's page show that it's a popular enough release that it sells out over, and over, and over again. So I guess one's perception of the item itself will color their perception of that fact.

-b.

[jenius]

I think Gakken doesn't like UM and doesn't like the toy so he's seeing the glass half empty. The gripes about scale seem silly since we've all survived every other Transformers line EVER and it's not far off any way.

[David Hingtgen]

You're presenting a false dichotomy that isn't even the real issue with Ultra Fattimus. The real issue is that he wasn't designed smart and instead of an accurate and fun looking bot mode with scale (Which again, is the desired aim of the line) you have a truck mode that looks "good" even though there are no real design constraints on a fictional truck. I don't know of any freightliner car carrier with missiles. Nothing looks like ultra magnus in truck mode so there are no constraints other than the G1. They over balanced one mode to fit one semi-interesting gimmick that most people won't use. I've never even put a car in the back of my MP-10, and the trailer stays in the box. Maybe their are people that do, but they could have suffered for a better toy. I think most people would have given space for a car or two for a better looking toy with less kibble.

I see MP UM as having an awful truck mode, greatly inferior to Citizen Stack's. Better ramps would have lead to more angled shins, which'd look better and be more G1 accurate (both toon and toy) AND eliminate the infamous "gap" there. Just one of many things that could have been done different.

G1 Ultra Magnus IS A CAR CARRIER. Thus, he must carry cars. It's the entire reason and primary design constraint of the original G1 toy. It's absolutely utterly inherent to his design. You can't ignore that aspect. May as well make a Blast-Off that doesn't combine with 4 other guys...

[Gakken85]

StarSaber lost his base mode for sake of a better toy. It's a toy that's full of love and blows Um out of the water in terms of gimmicks and looks (even if you don't like the design).

I don't think it's about glass half anything. David picked this fight. Not me. I guess bitching about blue wasn't enough.

It's just being honest about what you see in the cad designs, the transformation pictures, and the final look of the toy.

If Mr. K popped out some finished pictures of the VF-0D with a giant butt flap do yout think people would care?

Scale gripes have been huge since day one for MP's. MP-10 was suppose to be the baseline, and they threw that out the window. He's a fictional CAR CARRIER, thus the design can be fudged. Nothing is inherent other than he can carry a car. It's not worth ruining the bot mode and making the transformation an oragami in the process.

Nobody said ignore it. They said don't overbalance the design for one mode just because of a gimmick that doesn't need to be restricted by the design.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Gakken85

[Silverstreak]

Everyone is an armchair masterpiece toy designer. Gak, you are obviously wasted in your current form of employment. You need to send your CV to Takara, stat! :p

But seriously, don't you think that the designers tried to get rid of that buttflap? If they can spit out Masterpieces like Wheeljack, MP-10, Soundawave and Laserbeak then I'm confident they tried their best on UM too.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Silverstreak

[Tober]

Everyone is an armchair masterpiece toy designer. Gak, you are obviously wasted in your current form of employment. You need to send your CV to Takara, stat! :p

But seriously, don't you think that the designers tried to get rid of that buttflap? If they can spit out Masterpieces like Wheeljack, MP-10, Soundawave and Laserbeak then I'm confident they tried their best on UM too.

In the Masterpiece book there is a concept drawing that shows a seam that would have folded UM's but-flap away. I'm guessing the accountants got to it first.

[JB0]

I don't know of any freightliner car carrier with missiles.

You live in a nicer neighborhood than me.

[Gakken85]

Doesn't have anything to do with being a toy designer, just common sense.

I think they ran out of time and money.

It's not like they can scrap a bad design and start over... Takara would lose way too much money on the work they'd already completed.

Anyway, it's 2 months until he's released. We'll find out then.

[Kanedas Bike]

Meh, it's all subjective, speculative and moot anyway.

Let's go back to wishing for more releases in the Masterpiece line. Like Hound.

-b.

[JB0]

Let's go back to wishing for more releases in the Masterpiece line. Like Hound.

-b.

And Shockwave. Don't forget Shockwave.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

And Shockwave. Don't forget Shockwave.

i just saw quakewave at mechapilot77's house yesterday. it looks awesome. the only thing it didn't have was the two iconic laser sounds... was disappointed it was missing...

i want a mp shockwave too.

[Valkyrie2008]

I'm happy with quakewave as being shockwave, we could skip that one, because I don't believe Takara will offer anything better. We have plenty other decepticons and autobots waiting to be made.

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

Wow, Takara's Generations Arcee makes the Hasbro version look like an unpainted reject. Even their Windblade looks much better. Their Arcee has me considering replacing my iGear Delicate Warrior.

[Scyla]

It is a mood point to discuss why Valkyries are more accurate to the source material. Valkyries where designed from the get go to have a realistic transformation. Naturally they can be very close to what we've seen on screen.

Transformers just shift from one mode to the other without much logic. It gets even worse with TF Prime and AoE. AoE Optimus Prime doesn't have any recognizable parts in robot mode with the exception of his smokestacks.

Now to MP Magnus. I think the design stems from the fact that that the design had too much iterations. At first it was design as a power armor for a white Convoy than it was an all in one. On top on that the lead designers switched during the development I think.

That said I think the design is pretty lazy. the chins would be easy to implement in a way to reduce the gaps. I think the butt flap is meant to recreate the back of the toy do look like the source material. However a mechanism to collapse the plate into itself and still giving a accurate back Is not impossible. Or an optional mechanism to shorten it for the people who don't like it would be a sound design. I'm pretty sure that the overall blocky look of Magnus is unavoidable if the goal is to have a cap the same size as Convoy and a robot mode that is not out of scale. Citizen Stack sacrificed the scale in robot mode for a more lanky look of Ultra Magnus.

I'm a huge UM fan and thus I'm really happy with the Masterpiece version with the exception of the butt flap and the gaps in the shins. The latter is the more severe issue to me.

Overall I would say that the car carrier gimmick is the worst design decision of the whole revamp Masterpiece line. It doesn't really works because the ramp is to steep on Convoy (or the cars have not enough chassis clearance). The trailer is not included in every release. I don't even have it because I bought MP-10B specifically because it doesn't come with the trailer. I don't have room for it and the trailer on my MP-08B is a total waste of space even if it is smaller than MP-10. It takes away one toy slot on my Masterpiece shelf. The worst part of the trailer however is the fact that the Autobot cars are too small. I'm not talking about size to price ratio because that is fine. The cars are literally an inch too short in bot and alt mode and I think the reason is that they had to fit in Convoys and Magnus' trailer.

Now on UM the trailer gimmick seems to work better for the lower deck of the car carrier however I could've done without it. I think it is nice to have the option to use it. On the other hand how many people would use it and play/display it that way?

Really looking forward to the rest of the Masterpiece line I hope they do Jazz/Mirage/Tracks soon.

On the Destron side I would love to see Galvatron and the Insecticons. My Quakewave is a decent stand in for Shockwave however I think Takara could do better. Wasn't there some kind of legal issue why Takara can't do Shockwave?

[Gakken85]

Good Points Scyla

[RD Blade]

Wow, Takara's Generations Arcee makes the Hasbro version look like an unpainted reject. Even their Windblade looks much better. Their Arcee has me considering replacing my iGear Delicate Warrior.

I have Hasbro Arcee pre-ordered. I just looked up a side-by-side comparison pic. It made me sad.

[Kanedas Bike]

Courtesy of TFW2005, some pics of the AoE Dual Mode Kit Optimus Prime from a couple of days ago;

There is no way, none, that they'd be able to design a perfect transformation toy from this. Hopefully this fits together better than the first gen DMK releases.

-b.

[GU-11]

If AOE's designs are anything to go by, DMK kits will be the only representations of the movie figs that I'll be buying from now on. AoE Prime might as well be a Gundam design, given how few car arts there are on him.

Which reminds me, I'd better get around to pre-ordering the kit soon.

[Kanedas Bike]

If AOE's designs are anything to go by, DMK kits will be the only representations of the movie figs that I'll be buying from now on. AoE Prime might as well be a Gundam design, given how few car arts there are on him.

Which reminds me, I'd better get around to pre-ordering the kit soon.

Truly. I don't even think his wheels are visible in robot mode, at least in the first 3 movies you could pretend like Prime turned into a truck. This one is a straight up robot with the same paint scheme as his vehicle mode.

But for some inexplicable reason I like Prime and Bee's robot modes from the Bay-movies. Probably the same crazy condition that makes Gakken like Space Brick so much.

It's order stop at HLJ but still available at AmiAmi (http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=FIGURE-006771&page=top%2Fsearch%2Flist%3Fs_keywords%3Ddmk%24pagemax%3D40%24getcnt%3D0%24pagecnt%3D1).

-b.

[mikeszekely]

Why's it called Dual Mode Kit? Looks like it only has one mode to me.

[David Hingtgen]

I very much agree with the point that the MP cars were compromised to fit in Prime's trailer---THAT seems like a pointless thing. He NEVER carried cars, only Roller. Roller's the only thing that needs to fit inside. Plus, asides from Knight Rider, cars don't normally fit in regular trailers. (car-delivery trailers are not standard dry-vans like Prime has).

Magnus needs to carry cars, but he has open sides and front, etc. A lot easier to make work. (plus his trailer isn't straight-sided nor standard width anyways, another factor that makes it easier).

They could easily have made Sideswipe and Prowl a bit bigger, and still fit inside a Magnus trailer----there's little need/desire for them to fit in Prime's trailer.

[Kanedas Bike]

Why's it called Dual Mode Kit? Looks like it only has one mode to me.

Whoops, it's Dual Model, not mode. But "why"? I dunno, because it rolls off the tongue I suppose.

-b.

[mikeszekely]

Whoops, it's Dual Model, not mode.

Ohhh...

...

...yeah, still doesn't make any sense. But whatevs. I'm not a fan of the Bayverse designs anyway, and didn't plan on getting it even if it did transform.

[GU-11]

Truly. I don't even think his wheels are visible in robot mode, at least in the first 3 movies you could pretend like Prime turned into a truck. This one is a straight up robot with the same paint scheme as his vehicle mode.

But for some inexplicable reason I like Prime and Bee's robot modes from the Bay-movies. Probably the same crazy condition that makes Gakken like Space Brick so much.

It's order stop at HLJ but still available at AmiAmi (http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=FIGURE-006771&page=top%2Fsearch%2Flist%3Fs_keywords%3Ddmk%24pagemax%3D40%24getcnt%3D0%24pagecnt%3D1).

-b.

The only discernible truck parts I can see are smokestacks. And yeah, there are no wheels on AoE Prime's bot mode at all. If you notice, his transformation is mostly just like DOTM Megatron, with the truck parts simply folding into his chest cavity.

For what it's worth, at least the original Bayverse Prime was able to be realized in toy form as ROTF leader class Prime. It was at least a much more plausible design with most of the truck parts accounted for, except the rear wheel covers. And even then, it was a really complex transformation. With AoE Prime, the whole truck is mostly gone.

BTW, thanks for link!

Ohhh...

...

...yeah, still doesn't make any sense. But whatevs. I'm not a fan of the Bayverse designs anyway, and didn't plan on getting it even if it did transform.

The dual model thing is basically a borderline misnomer, The so-called "dual model" is just that you can display Optimus "naked", ie. without his armor/truck parts--really, it's not exactly a pretty sight.

[David Hingtgen]

For what it's worth, at least the original Bayverse Prime was able to be realized in toy form as ROTF leader class Prime. It was at least a much more plausible design with most of the truck parts accounted for, except the rear wheel covers.

Fenders. On a semi, those are the fenders.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

I very much agree with the point that the MP cars were compromised to fit in Prime's trailer---THAT seems like a pointless thing. He NEVER carried cars, only Roller. Roller's the only thing that needs to fit inside. Plus, asides from Knight Rider, cars don't normally fit in regular trailers. (car-delivery trailers are not standard dry-vans like Prime has).

Magnus needs to carry cars, but he has open sides and front, etc. A lot easier to make work. (plus his trailer isn't straight-sided nor standard width anyways, another factor that makes it easier).

They could easily have made Sideswipe and Prowl a bit bigger, and still fit inside a Magnus trailer----there's little need/desire for them to fit in Prime's trailer.

ultra magnus needs to carry 4 cars:

or 2

http://youtu.be/rkgIYGwAVug

Edited October 3, 2014 by davidwhangchoi

[Gakken85]

Everybody knows season 3 doesn't count. haha

[Black Valkyrie]

New images PS Optimus Prime, sure looks nice.

[anime52k8]

We interrupt your regularly scheduled complaining about MP Ultra Magnus to bring you something much more important:

DAWIMUS PWIME!!!

http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=TOY-RBT-3836

[Kanedas Bike]

^Awww, lil' baby Prime. I feel like that should have a Cybertronian diaper on or something.

@GU-11, no problem and good luck w the hunt/purchase

-b.