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Damn, to me it looks like they passed up a chance to reintroduce Yeoman Janice Rand in order to make more Wrath of Khan references. Now Dr. Marcus gets to be part of the five year mission.

Also, didn't Peter Weller play a very similar character in this movie as when he guest starred on Enterprise?

Edited by Einherjar
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It's a stupid movie but it's paced, shot and acted well enough to be enjoyable and even good.

This is actually one of the best reviews I've read of this movie.

Except for Weller's performance

From his first line you could tell, "uh, here's bad guy that seems like a good guy at first character" and it wasn't even done very well.

Also the superblood was done so hamfistedly I'm surprised it wasn't an afterthought.

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This is actually one of the best reviews I've read of this movie.

Except for Weller's performance

From his first line you could tell, "uh, here's bad guy that seems like a good guy at first character" and it wasn't even done very well.

Also the superblood was done so hamfistedly I'm surprised it wasn't an afterthought.

In the crew's defense, Weller was kinda spoiled for me because of Enterprise. Maybe they should have taken that into account when casting. On the other hand though, a lot of fans hated Enterprise and probably never watched it long enough to see his episode.

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Saw it today, and I liked it.

Sure, JJ's Trek is stupider and flashier, more style than substance, than the Treks that came before it. So it makes for a lousy TV show, but fun movies, if you ask me.

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Damn, to me it looks like they passed up a chance to reintroduce Yeoman Janice Rand in order to make more Wrath of Khan references. Now Dr. Marcus gets to be part of the five year mission.

Also, didn't Peter Weller play a very similar character in this movie as when he guest starred on Enterprise?

If they try to follow the eventual breakup of Kirk and Marcus in TOS movies that's going to be one LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG and painful 5 year mission...

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Went and saw it again. I was still into the movie the whole time. Im not sure I have been this excited about a set of movies in a loooong while. I try to not think about the plot to to much and pick it apart. But really nothing glaringly pops out at me like when I watched Prometheus. And I did still like Prometheus.

I just noticed that in the IMAX the whole screen isnt used the whole time. I always wondered what it meant when they said 30 mins or whatever was filmed in imax. When your actually paying attention to the screen the difference is dramatic. I guess when your intently watching a movie you dont really notice.

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Despite four trips to the theater to see the movie I have yet to see it in IMAX/3D; is it worth the trouble?

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On the other hand though, a lot of fans hated Enterprise and probably never watched it long enough to see his episode.

That's Ironic because Enterprise is the only Trek TV that's still in continuity in the J.J-verse

Enterprise doesn't fit the continuity of the JJverse unless you ignore their Mirror-Mirror 'Defiant' and Borg episodes.

Next Generation fits the JJverse if you remove the episodes "Relics", "Yesterday's Enterprise" and the movie "Generations"....but you still have to ignore "All Good Things" for Next Generation the series to fit with Next Generation the movies.

Or rather like Captain Harlock don't try to tie all the individual works together but enjoy them seperately.

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Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many times has Spock time travelled? Wonder why he didn't make efforts to "correct" the timeline this time where Vulcan doesn't explode. To complicated? I know, this is more of a question for the first film, but I sort of just thought of it.

Edited by peter
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??? He only time traveled once. He entered the vortex moments after the Narada but they arrived in the past decades apart. The Narada was waiting for him and was captured.

Chris

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Star Trek IV was once....could have sworn he (old Spock) did a bit of time travel in TOS, but I'm probably wrong. I just get the impression that time travel is pretty normal in the Star Trek Universe when it comes to going back in time to "fix" things, why not this time?

Edited by peter
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Star Trek IV was once....could have sworn he (old Spock) did a bit of time travel in TOS, but I'm probably wrong. I just get the impression that time travel is pretty normal in the Star Trek Universe when it comes to going back in time to "fix" things, why not this time?

Because according to Star Trek quantum reality theory all possibilities exist. Data mentionned that theory in a TNG episode : ''Quantum reality, or quantum universe, was the term used to describe the alternate timelines in which all possible outcomes for any event take place. Each quantum reality was its own separate parallel universe characterized by a unique quantum signature which could not be be altered. All matter resonated on a quantum level with this signature within the universes. Before 2370, the existence of different quantum realities was considered only a theory in quantum physics. Under normal circumstances quantum universes remain separated from one another by barriers. (TNG: "Parallels")''

Link : http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Quantum_reality

Data's explanation of quantum reality:

,

''"Many worlds" in Star Trek

Some serious problems with Star Trek time travel can be solved once you accept the "many worlds" theory:

  • "City on the Edge of Forever": When Doctor McCoy jumped through the time portal, the other crewmembers on the planet's surface perceived the sudden disappearance of the entire Federation. Supposedly, he changed the past so that the Federation was never created. But that is impossible because the other crewmen still existed. They still had memories of the Federation. They still had Federation uniforms and Federation weapons. The "many worlds" theory neatly explains this problem: McCoy and all of the people on the planet's surface were all transported into a timeline (or parallel universe, whichever you prefer) in which the Federation never existed. The original timeline is not destroyed, thus explaining why they still remember its history, but they can no longer perceive it or return to it. When Kirk and Spock jumped back to "fix the damage", they caused everyone to jump into another timeline, in which the Federation was founded again, but with slightly different events surrounding Edith Keeler's death. This is not the same as "going home", but as far as they're concerned, it's good enough.

  • "Star Trek First Contact": When the Borg jumped into the past, the crew of the Enterprise perceived the disappearance of the Federation's entire history. This is impossible because they still exist, and they still retain all of their memories, equipment, history files, etc. Data suggests that they were somehow "shielded from the changes in the timeline", but he doesn't even attempt an explanation of how this is possible. The "many worlds" theory provided a neater explanation: they were dragged into a new timeline by the Borg sphere's "temporal wake", and when they stayed in the wake long enough to perform a similar jump, they ended up in yet another timeline. In this new timeline, they tried to "fix" events so that they unfolded more or less as they remembered (albeit with an orbital bombardment of Cochrane's launch facility which didn't occur in their original history). Note that the "many worlds" theory also explains the biggest conundrum of STFC: why the Borg fought their way to Earth before performing the time-jump, instead of making the jump from the safety of their own territory. The answer is that a time-jump would move the travellers to a divergent timeline but it would have no effect on the original timeline. Therefore, it would do the Collective no good. You might ask why they performed the jump at all if this is the case, but the Queen's attack had failed and she was facing imminent destruction. A jump into a divergent timeline would not change history in her original timeline, but she may have found the prospect preferable to simply being destroyed by one of Picard's quantum torpedoes.

  • "Yesterday's Enterprise": History seems to change when the Enterprise-C appears two decades away from where it was supposed to be destroyed in battle. But the original timeline is not gone, and in the new timeline, Guinan can actually perceive that the Enterprise-C belongs to a timeline other than her own (she can even perceive some of the history of that timeline). This perception manifests itself as a disquieting sensation that something is "wrong", but that's an oversimplification. After all, how can a timeline be "wrong?" With countless timelines in existence as seen in "Parallels", why would one be more "right" or "wrong" than another? A better explanation is that Guinan perceived enough of the Enterprise-C's original timeline to know that she thought it was better than the one she was currently in. We jumped to a divergent timeline when the Enterprise-C arrived and we jumped to another divergent timeline when it departed.

Although the "many worlds" theory may have been discredited in real life, it seems to be the only way to explain Star Trek time travel as we've seen it on the show. It explains causality paradoxes in "City on the Edge of Forever" and STFC, and it also explains why time travel is not being used to solve problems, because it means that time travel doesn't really change anything. It only moves the traveller into an alternate universe where events unfold more to his liking. An interesting consequence of this explanation is that we've really been following a group of characters as they move from timeline to timeline, so we haven't stayed in a single universe throughout the series run of Star Trek.''

Link : http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Trekkie.html#TimeTravel

JJ Abrams's Star Trek is set in a alternate quantum universe where the timeline has never been fixed since all the possibilities exist As simple as that.

Edited by Macross007
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Star Trek IV was once....could have sworn he (old Spock) did a bit of time travel in TOS, but I'm probably wrong. I just get the impression that time travel is pretty normal in the Star Trek Universe when it comes to going back in time to "fix" things, why not this time?

The same reason Star Trek did not make use of technologies they picked up during epsidoes.

Spock Time Travelled at least 3 times in TOS and once in STIV.

TOS list

The one with Terry Gar.

The one where they accidently trash a US fighter plane with a tractor beam.

The one with the time donut. (and whatz her face from Dallas)

(and a bonus entry)

The one with the library that sent him back to the tasty lady in the cave

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It is, and that's why I felt the entire plot of the reboot was facepalm-worthy. Granted, they eventually had the time police going around and trying to stop people from messing with the timeline, but I'd call a planet being utterly destroyed an extraordinary case, similar to the space whale thing.

Spock and the entire TOS crew had seen their fair share of "temporal incursions" though, as the folks in the DS9 tribble episode called it. "The Naked Time" had them discover the time travel slingshot effect in the first place, "City On the Edge of Forever" had a WWII-era plot, "Tomorrow is Yesterday" had them go back in time to foil a plot to mess with NASA, "Assignment Earth" had them go back in time for research, and they managed to land an F-104 and it's pilot right in the shuttle bay. :p Then you have ST:IV. Time travel's been one of trek's key plot devices since the get-go.

Next Generation fits the JJverse if you remove the episodes "Relics", "Yesterday's Enterprise" and the movie "Generations"....but you still have to ignore "All Good Things" for Next Generation the series to fit with Next Generation the movies.

I'm not sure you actually have to make many changes to TNG for it to potentially fit. The only part of "Relics" that doesn't fit is when they recreate the TOS bridge on the holodeck, since you could otherwise just assume Scotty still winds up in the same situation he was in. "Yesterday's Enterprise" I don't think conflicts at all, unless things change massively involving Human/Klingon relations. Even "Generations" could eventually fit I think.

Things are definitely skewed off onto a new timeline, and I believe things are delayed a certain extent, but Spock Prime seemed dedicated to getting the timeline back on track. If you ignore the ship designs and sizes, I'm not sure anything would be drastically changed. Thing is, the ships being more powerful from the get-go would rebalance a lot of history, and might change a few key things. If they want to do things right, it's going to take a lot of thought to pick out the fixed points in history and work around them.

As far as "All Good Things" goes though, that was always just a potential future anyway, and the entire plot was a fustercluck of recursive paradoxes. Q used the situation to toy with Picard, and the entire mess had a really simple solution that Q just didn't feel like telling him. As soon as Picard saw that particular future, it pretty much guaranteed it would never happen.

Edited by Chronocidal
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And that really is where this latest ST movie fails, it could have pulled the timeline back towards the prime timeline so that things could still happen in a similar manner as they did before. Instead it forced it to diverge even more, and now all of the original movies have to be thrown out as a result. The impact further down the line is not as known but had they done what I suggested a few posts back and even ended with them going off on the 5 yr mission, then the impact to the timeline would be much slighter and could even normalize over time.

Think of it like a regular oscilation, or a string that's been plucked, leave it alone and it will eventually go back to its normal stable state, keep plucking it and it will take longer having more and more effects down the line, and possibly even shifting the line. But apply a damping force and it renormalizes that much faster, and can even return to the original state as well down the line. The JJ verse movies keep plucking the string and never apply a damping effect, and each pertubation shifts the whole furhter away with new miracle tech getting introduced with each itteration that changes the game significantly.

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And that really is where this latest ST movie fails, it could have pulled the timeline back towards the prime timeline so that things could still happen in a similar manner as they did before. Instead it forced it to diverge even more, and now all of the original movies have to be thrown out as a result. The impact further down the line is not as known but had they done what I suggested a few posts back and even ended with them going off on the 5 yr mission, then the impact to the timeline would be much slighter and could even normalize over time. Think of it like a regular oscilation, or a string that's been plucked, leave it alone and it will eventually go back to its normal stable state, keep plucking it and it will take longer having more and more effects down the line, and possibly even shifting the line. But apply a damping force and it renormalizes that much faster, and can even return to the original state as well down the line. The JJ verse movies keep plucking the string and never apply a damping effect, and each pertubation shifts the whole furhter away with new miracle tech getting introduced with each itteration that changes the game significantly.

They are not the same timeline. Why is that so hard to accept? The whole point was to keep the core of the characters and dump all the feces that had built up over the decades - to the point where doing ANYTHING in the original timeline other then sit around and deliberate the Prime Directive and how awesome the Federation was - was a no no.

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It is, and that's why I felt the entire plot of the reboot was facepalm-worthy. Granted, they eventually had the time police going around and trying to stop people from messing with the timeline, but I'd call a planet being utterly destroyed an extraordinary case, similar to the space whale thing.

I'm not sure you actually have to make many changes to TNG for it to potentially fit. The only part of "Relics" that doesn't fit is when they recreate the TOS bridge on the holodeck, since you could otherwise just assume Scotty still winds up in the same situation he was in. "Yesterday's Enterprise" I don't think conflicts at all, unless things change massively involving Human/Klingon relations. Even "Generations" could eventually fit I think.

Yes, the time police should fix everything unless the event is not large enough to damage their future.

Same with Q, he wouldn't allow time to be altered enough to remove his favorite plaything Picard.

TNG can remain...but...,as of now, every episode, with a TWOK jacket needs to be removed...unless that uniform appears in the JJverse.

Relics has to go or be edited because of the TOS bridge and Scotty's uniform but yes the events could still happen to Scotty.

The Enterprise B and C are out because of the already improved technology.... By the time C saves the Klingon's, they should be a match for the Romulans, just by looking at the USS Vengence, and win the fight.

But, Yes, I think there is little impact on TNG since it is far removed from the time disturbance, rather like a stone tossed in a pond... the ripples are smaller the farther from the impact and with a bit of Doctor Who thought that time is self correcting.

Or like Data says, they all exist.

Edited by Fly4victory
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Well, I can accept alternate universes and mulltiple timelines, but my ponderings were really just why Spock choose to stay in this timeline when in previous movies and TV shows, they would always return to their own timeline or one where Earth wasn't blown up? They saved the Space Whales, why not figure out away to keep Vulcan from blowing up?

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We think Spock Prime is from our universe but he is actually Evil Spock from the Mirror Mirror universe.

By traveliing back in time and cross dimensions to distroy Vulcan and see that Kirk is not Captain when he should be, Evil Spock will save the Empire because Kirk will not be in place to crossover and the our Federation will have a more military slant like the evil-verse.

Evil Spock is just hanging around to see that his plan doesn't fail and have his true nature uncovered in JJ-Trek 3.

Edited by Fly4victory
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We think Spock Prime is from our universe but he is actually Evil Spock from the Mirror Mirror universe.

By traveliing back in time and cross dimensions to distroy Vulcan and see that Kirk is not Captain when he should be, Evil Spock will save the Empire because Kirk will not be in place to crossover and the our Federation will have a more military slant like the evil-verse.

Evil Spock is just hanging around to see that his plan doesn't fail and have his true nature uncovered in JJ-Trek 3.

That actually makes sense.

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I wouldn't say the TWOK uniforms need to be changed at all. The current uniforms (which really don't look at all like uniforms in the first place) just mimic the look of the TV show, and depending on the squishyness of the timeline, we might be getting close to the uniforms in TMP.

Actually, the dress uniforms are pretty close to the TMP version uniforms already from what I recall.

I hope they go back to the classic TWOK uniforms, just because they were so iconic, and I don't think any of the others have really compared to them.

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I saw it yesterday afternoon and it was so AWESOME!!! Loved them doing the WoK thing in reverse at the end. B))

basically, I thought it was an great movie, and absolutely don't see what all the bitching is about.

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I went and saw this Friday. Good summertime action flick. Didn't think it was quite as good as the first, but a solid entry. I give it a B-. Benebict Mr. Badguy whatever his name is, is freakin awesome as is Peter Weller!

At first I thought the new Khan was as over-acted and melodramtic; silly even. But this dashing, killer Khan is much more entertaining and engaging than the original. THIS Khan seemed like a true genius and a genuine threat, the original always seemed like more of a nuisance that wore circus-performer clothes and luckily stayed one step ahead of everyone...

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