Star Trek Into Darkness, in theaters May 17, 2013

[Shaorin]

I still can't get over how ugly the reboot Enterprise is.

-Kyp

AMEN to that.

for me, there is no NCC-1701/1701refit as beautiful and majestic as this;

-and no starship anywhere so downright gorgeous as this;

natually, any future entries in the ST reboot effort will likely not feature anything remotely like these two fine starships,

and, even if they actually happen to, the spaceframe's designs will most likely be re-imagined to the point of utter grotesqueness.

in sum, AFAIAC, STAR TREK is quite over and done with.

any transfusion of new blood into the series, as the ENTERPRISE TV series and this movie reboot effort are attempting,

is more than likely to be wholly offensive on most every concievable level, to a purist such as myself, at least...

[big F]

The fact that they stuck up a big middle finger to the muddles mess the original canon was and still made a ton of money should tell you something. Watch it!

Exactly, similarly the same thing happened in BSG except the original did kinda suck, although we all still love it.

[Ghost Train]

Suggestion for 2013 movie. Accelerate the timeline. Have Kirk self destruct the JJ-prise. Replace with classic Constitution-refit. Add lens-flare and viral-style marketing. Everyone happy.

[Greyryder]

Refit style enterprise would be fine, if they'd just replace those hideous nacelles. Maybe, a toned down version of the JJprise nacelles. Honestly, I'd be fine with the reboot version of the ship, if they'd just move the engineering hull back a bit. (leave the nacelles where they are, in relation to the saucer)

Guys, I'm sorry, but I really do think the Excelsior ranks right up there with the Galaxy as one of the ugliest designs Starfleet has ever produced. Now, the Ambassador class. That's a good looking ship.

[anime52k8]

I think the new enterprise is awesome.

[Omegablue]

Perhaps I should have been more speciifc, "fugly." As for Neelix, 6 seasons of annoying with 1 off doesn't top Jar Jar's ultimate smackdown of being the direct force causing the fall of the republic. That's hilarious irony!

That many bad seasons vs 3 bad films... Starwars wins there.

[Keith]

I think the new enterprise is awesome.

Agreed, I actually like the sleek rounded stylings. Only thing I'd change is to stretch the neck forward a bit, lower it, and lower the necelles back a bit to even out the height.

That many bad seasons vs 3 bad films... Starwars wins there.

How do you figure that? 6 seasons, some 130+ episodes is significantly longer & worse than 1 full movie + 2 with sporatic scenes of Jar Jar.

[Omegablue]

How do you figure that? 6 seasons, some 130+ episodes is significantly longer & worse than 1 full movie + 2 with sporatic scenes of Jar Jar.

I meant that the StarWars prequels are not as bad as Startrek. Hence why SW wins, and Trek loses again.

[Ghost Train]

I meant that the StarWars prequels are not as bad as Startrek. Hence why SW wins, and Trek loses again.

I think this is hard to quantify. Since Star Trek is comprised of both TV series and movies it's had more chances to fail - but it has not always failed. In the "modern era", TNG & DS9 were very good shows, Voyager and Enterprise not so much. The movies have always been hit and miss - with the even numbered ones strangely doing better .

Pretty much all 3 of the SW prequels were mixed. But yea... everyone still went to see them.

[Keith]

I meant that the StarWars prequels are not as bad as Startrek. Hence why SW wins, and Trek loses again.

Very good, carry on then!

I think this is hard to quantify. Since Star Trek is comprised of both TV series and movies it's had more chances to fail - but it has not always failed. In the "modern era", TNG & DS9 were very good shows, Voyager and Enterprise not so much. The movies have always been hit and miss - with the even numbered ones strangely doing better .

Pretty much all 3 of the SW prequels were mixed. But yea... everyone still went to see them.

We were quantifying it by contrasting the Jar Jar to Neelix factor.

[Thom]

I agree on the design of the nuEnterprise. It has grown on me, but only so far. Yes, move the neck forward and straighten out the bends in the nacelle struts, and maybe make the nacelles a little less 'ample..' But in all, a good design to restart from, with other elements that definitely have a nice Sixties flare.

I may make enemies right now, but it beats the original TOS design by a loooong shot! Its dated by more than just forty years!

And now my big disagreement. Ahum. Jeri Ryan. Are you guys nuts!?

I don't usually go for over the top gorgeous, but she's got it, and I like it!

Edited February 27, 2012 by Thom

[sketchley]

The fact that they stuck up a big middle finger to the muddles mess the original canon was and still made a ton of money should tell you something. Watch it!

A movie making a lot of money doesn't mean very much to me these days. Example: I finally got around to watching Avatar last weekend (it was on TV), and only caught the last 1/3 or 1/4. Totally underwhelming. Yeah, sure, the visuals were great, but at the same time, the story and action were underwhelming. Characters? What characters. I've gleaned more over the years from reviews than the last act of the movie...

So that leaves sticking a big middle finger at the muddled mess of the original cannon... right now, I'm rewatching all of ST:TNG (just finished "Best of Both Worlds Part II"). Can't say I like Voyager or Enterprise, but TOS, TNG and DS? Yes, there might be a muddled mess in canon. But on the other hand, there's also a lot of fun stories, and great characters...

... and compare that to Macross. There are some messes, too, but the director hasn't stuck a big middle finger at what's gone before. He's said the opposite: get over it, and enjoy the latest incarnation. Why can't Star Trek do the same?

(addendum: and Star Wars. I'm all for getting the director's original vision. But changing things so that you-know-who doesn't fire first, and lord dark helmet shouts no...)

Edited February 27, 2012 by sketchley

[azrael]

Next person to bring up a Star Wars-comparison in this thread about the next Star Trek movie is getting the boot. There are other places for that nonsense and it ain't here.

[Noriko Takaya]

Next person to bring up a Star Wars-comparison in this thread about the next Star Trek movie is getting the boot. There are other places for that nonsense and it ain't here.

What about bashing Jerri Ryan?

[Kelsain]

Weighing in on ST:

I liked the new movie, and how they followed established Trek time-travel rules to allow the reboot. Besides, the original canon is still there, this is an official alternate universe.

Interested to see what comes next, but it better not be Khan. Then what's the point of freeing yourself of what came before?

On the ship, the new design has grown on me as well, but I hope they take a little effort to correct some of the scale issues.

And build a real engine room set for crying out loud. But yes, movie refit is the perfect Enterprise.

My wife was flipping back & forth btw this & the red carpet last night. I don't think the lens flares bothered me too much when watching it straight thru - but damn, in small batches it, I get it. Needs an epilepsy warning.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Kelsain

[Dynaman]

My wife was flipping back & forth btw this & the red carpet last night. I don't think the lens flares bothered me too much when watching it straight thru - but damn, in small batches it, I get it. Needs an epilepsy warning.

Wife and I saw the movie in Imax, the lense flare and flashing started to actually HURT after a while - on the TV at home it is just annoying rather then painful though.

[azrael]

What about bashing Jerri Ryan?

Never said anything about that. (At least it's 'Trek relavant).

[VF-15 Banshee]

I gotta say, first time I've ever heard people say Jeri Ryan isn't hot but to each his own I suppose.

And I do like the new design of the Enterprise.

Please no Khan.

[Agent ONE]

I just like the Star Wars prequels so much, I can't see any other sci-fi movies.

[derex3592]

LOL

[Einherjar]

I hope there are no Kardashians in this reboot.

[Keith]

I gotta say, first time I've ever heard people say Jeri Ryan isn't hot but to each his own I suppose.

And I do like the new design of the Enterprise.

Please no Khan.

I really don't understand how you guys are finding Jeri Ryan hot. I mean really, look at this woman's face, what' shot about that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpISMFhfbKw

[Ghost Train]

I hope there are no Kardashians in this reboot.

[Einherjar]

Just don't oversexualize the new 'verse, people.

[kung flu]

I enjoyed the reboot star trek movie, but it didn't really feel like a trek movie. To me the old trek had a navy/ military or happy fleet kind of feeling to it. I didn't get that impression in the new one, instead it felt like a mix of high school drama with fancy gadgets. Also found that its was too bright or white and too much lens flare which i find annoying.

[Keith]

Never got the "Navy" feel from the original series. The movie to me seemed like the best aspects of the original series, mixed with the best aspects of the original crew movies.

[Bri]

Trek movies just don't cut it for me. Most of the time the series catch Roddenberry's optimistic view on the future better. Yes, even Voyager.

Abram's ST's plot sucked, but at least it looked good and had pace while doing so. If the price of a decent reboot is getting rid of all the canon, so be it. It was weighing down the franchise.

[Penguin]

I enjoyed the reboot (I thought Karl Urban nailed the tone for McCoy), but little, unimportant things annoy the unrepentant Star Trek/sci-fi geek in me.

Like kung flu, I found the pallet on the Enterprise too stark white. (Okay... that's aesthetics, not sci-fi geek.)

I didn't like that the Enterprise was the flagship from the beginning, while originally it was just another workhorse like the rest of the class. It was the crew who made the Enterprise a notable ship, and later Enterprises become the flagship because of that famous crew.

There isn't a single more qualified captain in all of Starfleet? Sure, the new kid saved Earth and all, but do we really let the lucky newbie with zero field experience drive the flagship?

While the later Star Trek series drowned itself in techno-babble from time to time, the science and designs in the new version felt too ad hoc. "Won't this beer factory make a cool engine room?" "Needs more water pipes!" "Oops, shuttles look too big... make the Enterprise crazy huge!"

And mostly, how does one Romulan ship going back in time change everything? If it struck one Federation ship then disappeared for 20 years, why do Klingon D7 cruisers look different? Why did the loss of one starship 20 years ago end up with Starfleet redesigning every starship, their insignia, and even their dress uniforms? The only explanation is that Quinto-Spock was wrong. Their universe was not caused by a "disruption in the time continuum", but is instead an independent parallel universe that Nimoy-Spock and Nero were catapulted into (or, if you prefer divergent reality theories, then it split off long before Spock and Nero arrived).

[kung flu]

Never got the "Navy" feel from the original series. The movie to me seemed like the best aspects of the original series, mixed with the best aspects of the original crew movies.

Yeah, not sure how to explain it, it's either a navy/ military thing, not just original series but also the later shows too. Just a feeling that apart from the enterprise and her crew, you get a sense of the huge backdrop and organisation behind them too. In the new trek, even though we know its the federation and all, it just felt empty, just a bunch of kids rushed through school and straight into action.

Reboots are fine, but i can't see why they couldn't have just made it a true reboot, without the time travel babble or over writing the old.

[renegadeleader1]

And mostly, how does one Romulan ship going back in time change everything? If it struck one Federation ship then disappeared for 20 years, why do Klingon D7 cruisers look different? Why did the loss of one starship 20 years ago end up with Starfleet redesigning every starship, their insignia, and even their dress uniforms? The only explanation is that Quinto-Spock was wrong. Their universe was not caused by a "disruption in the time continuum", but is instead an independent parallel universe that Nimoy-Spock and Nero were catapulted into (or, if you prefer divergent reality theories, then it split off long before Spock and Nero arrived).

I could say the same thing about the original series to the first movie, or even the first movie to the uniforms from wraith of Khan to undiscovered country. The changing designs thing had already been done with the past trek films so why do trekkies have to whine and complain now?

[TehPW]

I enjoyed the reboot (I thought Karl Urban nailed the tone for McCoy), but little, unimportant things annoy the unrepentant Star Trek/sci-fi geek in me.

Like kung flu, I found the pallet on the Enterprise too stark white. (Okay... that's aesthetics, not sci-fi geek.)

I didn't like that the Enterprise was the flagship from the beginning, while originally it was just another workhorse like the rest of the class. It was the crew who made the Enterprise a notable ship, and later Enterprises become the flagship because of that famous crew.

There isn't a single more qualified captain in all of Starfleet? Sure, the new kid saved Earth and all, but do we really let the lucky newbie with zero field experience drive the flagship?

While the later Star Trek series drowned itself in techno-babble from time to time, the science and designs in the new version felt too ad hoc. "Won't this beer factory make a cool engine room?" "Needs more water pipes!" "Oops, shuttles look too big... make the Enterprise crazy huge!"

And mostly, how does one Romulan ship going back in time change everything? If it struck one Federation ship then disappeared for 20 years, why do Klingon D7 cruisers look different? Why did the loss of one starship 20 years ago end up with Starfleet redesigning every starship, their insignia, and even their dress uniforms? The only explanation is that Quinto-Spock was wrong. Their universe was not caused by a "disruption in the time continuum", but is instead an independent parallel universe that Nimoy-Spock and Nero were catapulted into (or, if you prefer divergent reality theories, then it split off long before Spock and Nero arrived).

ok lets mind... fart this a moment...

1. The paint job on the Kelvin was that grey-thing... from ENT... and you can blaim ENT's existiance on the events that happened in STFC.

1a. The paint job on the Kelvin was that grey-thing...from ENT...because the one guy that otherwise would have been in a certain board meeting no longer was alive (otherwise all the ships in JJtrek would have been TOS pearly-white)

1b. It doesn't matter. String theory and liberal doses of Jim Beam will explain it all...

2. The reason the ships didnt look like TOS round and greeble-free was, STFC---> ENT---->JJtrek... somebody missed a important meeting/missed his flight/his ship had a warp-core breach in flight... anyway, he/she/it's dead. so they when with "Continue with Greebles!"

2b. String Theory, Jerry Springer and more JB black label...

on a more serious note, anything that changed can be blaimed on First Contact & Enterprise...

Edited February 29, 2012 by TehPW

[anime52k8]

You know, it's generally considered a bad thing to be drinking this early in the morning. And it's probably best if you didn't try to type while inebriated.

[pfunk]

I really don't understand how you guys are finding Jeri Ryan hot. I mean really, look at this woman's face, what' shot about that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpISMFhfbKw

who cares about her face man when she is bent over a barrel, shes hot from the neck down

[Penguin]

I could say the same thing about the original series to the first movie, or even the first movie to the uniforms from wraith of Khan to undiscovered country. The changing designs thing had already been done with the past trek films so why do trekkies have to whine and complain now?

You're mixing two different things.

Changes in uniform over time are one thing. The years that separate the first series from the first movie, first movie from Wrath of Khan, and to the TNG time frame, allow for Starfleet's changing fashion sense.

The conceit of the reboot, however, is that it's the same time frame (more or less) that the TV series took place, roughly 10 years before "The Menagerie" TV episode. So, either the costume designs should be similar to that time (no red shirts, for example), or the movie is saying that one ship being destroyed 20 years earlier caused Starfleet to redesign their uniforms. Which is kinda wacky. Or, I suppose, it could be saying they had red shirts at that time, then was going to get rid of them for a while ("Menagerie" through "Where No Man Has Gone Before"), then bring them back a bit later. And, they changed all their insignia (every ship had its own insignia style in the original series).

According to the info gathered by fans much more involved (not going to say obsessed) in Star Trek than I ever will be, Kirk was born about 8 years before the first Constitution-class ship was built. So, the appearance of Nero, who destroyed one ship then disappeared, resulted in an entire class being scuttled and the Enterprise not being built until much later. If he'd been running around wreaking random havoc in the interim, I could see Starfleet saying "we're going to need a bigger boat" and designing the aforementioned crazy huge reboot-Prise. But that's not the case. Nero simply vanished.

Basically, I perceive Star Trek going from an often over-wrought technobabble TV series to a movie where the "science" in "science fiction" seems tacked on as an afterthought without much thought. I'm not saying this is a bad thing. But, as a long-time reader of science fiction, it bugs me nonetheless. The events of the movie alone are not enough to explain the number of differences between one timeline and the other.

ok lets mind... fart this a moment...

1. The paint job on the Kelvin was that grey-thing... from ENT... and you can blaim ENT's existiance on the events that happened in STFC.

1a. The paint job on the Kelvin was that grey-thing...from ENT...because the one guy that otherwise would have been in a certain board meeting no longer was alive (otherwise all the ships in JJtrek would have been TOS pearly-white)

1b. It doesn't matter. String theory and liberal doses of Jim Beam will explain it all...

2. The reason the ships didnt look like TOS round and greeble-free was, STFC---> ENT---->JJtrek... somebody missed a important meeting/missed his flight/his ship had a warp-core breach in flight... anyway, he/she/it's dead. so they when with "Continue with Greebles!"

2b. String Theory, Jerry Springer and more JB black label...

on a more serious note, anything that changed can be blaimed on First Contact & Enterprise...

String theory and M-theory and their implications on multiple dimensions is separate from divergent reality theories. Neither one prevents or excludes the other, but they are different things.

Bringing Enterprise and First Contact into the discussion would mean the following:

1. The Enterprise-E travelling back in time in First Contact created a divergent reality, resulting in the series Enterprise. Where the Enterprise-E went when it left is another discussion entirely.

2. This divergent Enterprise-verse gave rise to a very different original series than we saw filmed.

3. The Troi and Riker that show up in the finale to Enterprise were not the same as we saw all though TNG, but divergent timeline versions (they certainly seemed strangely older ).

4. The Spock and Nero that travelled back in time to create the reboot-verse came from this timeline, and thus that Spock was already different from the TOS and TNG version.

Which in the end amounts to the same idea I mentioned... the reboot-verse takes place in a universe that had already diverged from the original series, and Nero/Spock's arrival didn't amount to all that much.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Penguin

[miles316]

troy and Riker were playing out a holodeck simulation depicting trips death and the last mission of the Enterprise NX-1 not that they traveled back in time.