Thoughts on Macross II

[sketchley]

I dunno... on the one hand, those independent engine nacelles give it some dynamism and great perspective... but on the other hand, they look so frail that the flick of a Zentran's finger will knock them off.

+ points for trying something new. - more points for losing all sense of realism (to clarify, I'm not referring to stealthiness nor the lifting body effect, but specifically it's extremely broad large cross-section. It just makes the thing a bigger target...

[Devil 505]

They could have been going for a lenticular design, like the Pye Wacket missile concept.

[VF5SS]

Makes me appreciate Kawamori's more compact fighter designs much more.

[danth]

What's with all the butthurt over someone other than Froating Head designing a nice valk?

[Gubaba]

What's with all the butthurt over someone other than Froating Head designing a nice valk?

I'm not sure it's butthurt...I think it's just that some people think it's "a nice valk" and others don't.

A simple matter of aesthetics and opinion.

[eugimon]

What's with all the butthurt over someone other than Froating Head designing a nice valk?

has nothing to do with the fact that kawamori didn't designed the vf-2... it's just stupid looking. Legs stuck on the edges for no reason, intakes that don't go anywhere stuck on for decoration, big fin stuck on the belly for no reason, a welder's mask that flips down for no reason. It's a hodgepodge of early 90's "cool" that hasn't aged well.

[danth]

Lol, why do you need a reason for the legs to be spaced wider apart? It's a space fighter, there's no reason for it to be shaped like an airplane. Doesn't the VF-1 have intakes in the chest that don't go anywhere? And doesn't the VF-4 have a big fin under the nose for no reason?

Come on guys, it's not like Tommy Yune designed it.

Haters gonna hate.

[VF5SS]

No the VF-4 has a little fin that folds away neatly while the VF-2SS fin is one of the worst things about the Bandai kit.

I mean I see what they were doing by having the arms, legs, and back engine nacelles all hang off the central body. From the rear it looks like it has six engines. From certain angles it lacks proper integration of all the elements though.

The other two featured Valkyries are much better but a bit gimmicky.

[treatment]

No the VF-4 has a little fin that folds away neatly while the VF-2SS fin is one of the worst things about the Bandai kit.

I mean I see what they were doing by having the arms, legs, and back engine nacelles all hang off the central body. From the rear it looks like it has six engines. From certain angles it lacks proper integration of all the elements though.

The other two featured Valkyries are much better but a bit gimmicky.

Wait a sec.

The specific Bandai VF-2SS kit is most likely the worst kit ever, regardless if it's from Macross or from another anime series. It's even more horrible than those tiny exploding Banpresto VF-series!

The only thing good about the kit was the Ishtar poster that came with it.

[eugimon]

Lol, why do you need a reason for the legs to be spaced wider apart? It's a space fighter, there's no reason for it to be shaped like an airplane. Doesn't the VF-1 have intakes in the chest that don't go anywhere? And doesn't the VF-4 have a big fin under the nose for no reason?

Come on guys, it's not like Tommy Yune designed it.

Haters gonna hate.

if it's a space fighter, why does it have 6 intakes? Why does it have wings? Tail fins? And no, the intakes on the vf-1 chest do go somewhere, just like the ones on the 25 and 19 go somewhere. The intakes on the vf-2 go into the shoulders.

And bringing up the wonkiness of the vf-4 design doesn't make the vf-2 any better. It just means there's another wonky design out there. But while the vf-4 also has the belly fin, it doesn't have a welder's mask so it's still better.

I mean, if the vf-2 were a car, it would be this one

Edited February 8, 2012 by eugimon

[PetarB]

yep, that's a really nice shade of blue on that wilting pancake plane.

Thanks. I think. In fact I mixed lots of shades of blue for this.

[EXO]

What's with all the butthurt over someone other than Froating Head designing a nice valk?

I'm not sure it's butthurt...I think it's just that some people think it's "a nice valk" and others don't.

A simple matter of aesthetics and opinion.

The problem is it's not just a difference in opinion... it's about if you disagree with a certain group in these forums lately, the same people post over and over until they're the only ones posting in that thread or it gets locked. It's really trollish behavior... maybe they have valid points but when they run out of those they start posting inane pictures that's suppose to make the point for them.

It's becoming more and more of a problem lately and they probably think it's gone unnoticed.

[danth]

if it's a space fighter, why does it have 6 intakes? Why does it have wings? Tail fins? And no, the intakes on the vf-1 chest do go somewhere, just like the ones on the 25 and 19 go somewhere. The intakes on the vf-2 go into the shoulders.

And bringing up the wonkiness of the vf-4 design doesn't make the vf-2 any better. It just means there's another wonky design out there. But while the vf-4 also has the belly fin, it doesn't have a welder's mask so it's still better.

I mean, if the vf-2 were a car, it would be this one

I guess I should have said that the VF-2 is specialized for space.

Where do the chest intakes go on the VF-1? Why not assume the chest intakes on the VF-2 go somewhere similar? They probably go to the backpack thrusters.

I think bringing up the VF-4 is relevant, because if you guys aren't harping about it sucking in the VF-4 thread, then it shows that you just have an anger-boner for the VF-2.

As for the car...have you seen Macross Frontier?

[VF-15 Banshee]

It's very interesting where this thread has gone originally from my review of Macross II.

[VF5SS]

My main issue with the intakes under the chest plate is they force the engines into outlying nacelles and yet in Gerwalk mode have to be double stacked above the leg intakes because of poor placement.

And all Valkyries are both atmospheric and space capable. They just attempted to stratify them just to pad the ranks out without much consideration for how they looked.

Kawamori designed this as a space fighter Valkyrie. Sure it looks like any old 90's space shooter plane, but at least it's a definite zero-g optimized design.

[treatment]

Kawamori designed this as a space fighter Valkyrie. Sure it looks like any old 90's space shooter plane, but at least it's a definite zero-g optimized design.

lol!

that vf-x3 is optimized for ridiculous fugliness.

not sure which is more fuglier, tho. That or the Metal Siren.

[eugimon]

I guess I should have said that the VF-2 is specialized for space.

Where do the chest intakes go on the VF-1? Why not assume the chest intakes on the VF-2 go somewhere similar? They probably go to the backpack thrusters.

I think bringing up the VF-4 is relevant, because if you guys aren't harping about it sucking in the VF-4 thread, then it shows that you just have an anger-boner for the VF-2.

As for the car...have you seen Macross Frontier?

The chest intakes on the vf-1 pipe down into the main intakes. Several real world fighters have a similar system. As for the vf-2 shoulder intakes going to the dorsal thrusters, those already have their own intakes. But again... even if the vf-2 is "specialized" for space... why does it have 6 intakes?

And yeah, you can talk about the vf-4 all you want. I'm not a huge fan of it either. But again... it has the belly fin but it doesn't have the welder's mask, it doesn't have the CB antenna... it's still a more sensible design than the vf-2... in fighter mode. In battroid, the vf-4 is ugly as sin.

Anyways, it's a matter of taste, I just don't like the vf-2ss but I like it WAY more than the 2ja or the metal siren.

[Macross_Fanboy]

I knew it! Flame on! Anyways, I could care less for Mac II, but it did leave a lasting legacy that was eventually seen in Macross Frontier. It is the only Macross series not in my collection.

[danth]

Anyways, it's a matter of taste, I just don't like the vf-2ss but I like it WAY more than the 2ja or the metal siren.

Oh, the Metal Siren is ugly as sin.

[PetarB]

Sure it looks like any old 90's space shooter plane, but at least it's a definite zero-g optimized design.

?

A 'zero-g' opimized design outside of an atmosphere looks like a brick. Or a sphere. Or any shape - it doesn't matter.

[VF5SS]

?

A 'zero-g' opimized design outside of an atmosphere looks like a brick. Or a sphere. Or any shape - it doesn't matter.

actually it does depending on what you want to do with it.

[Mommar]

Arguing over feigned practicality of an ultimately impractical cartoon plane is pretty silly. If you don't like the way it looks, like I do, just state you're not a fan and move on. Arguing over why somebody else shouldn't because you can't handle all of the intakes, or whatever it is, is silly and a little pathetic. PetarB likes it, and he built/painted a good looking model too. But telling him he painted a piece of crap well is just being a dick.

[VF5SS]

But I'm arguing double stacked intakes in Gerwalk mode.

They look weird.

[danth]

But I'm arguing double stacked intakes in Gerwalk mode.

They look weird.

Yeah, that is a little weird.

[VF5SS]

That's part of why people think those chest intakes are strange. If they were just the regular black line detail like Kawamori Valkyries they wouldn't get in the way.

http://macross2.net/m3/macross2/vf-2ss/vf-2ss-transformation2.gif

They also expose the really thin leg transfer mechanism. We joke about some small joints on Kawamori's designs, but those take the keiki.

[treatment]

I think Yamato-Toys should make and sell a proper VF2SS in 1/60 scale.

They already improved upon the crappy Bandai M7-valks, so it's not much of a stretch that they can vastly improve upon the even-crappier Bandai VF2SS kit.

[PetarB]

Arguing over feigned practicality of an ultimately impractical cartoon plane is pretty silly.

I agree.

I must admit, I'm a little surprised at the polarisation this design causes, but not everybody likes everything! I guess the world would be a boring place if we did.

[treatment]

I agree.

I must admit, I'm a little surprised at the polarisation this design causes, but not everybody likes everything! I guess the world would be a boring place if we did.

Not sure if there's really a polarisation or just some vocal minority being rather silly about it.

Still, awesome job on that blue VF2SS thingy, mang!

[sketchley]

Not sure if there's really a polarisation or just some vocal minority being rather silly about it.

It's just the vocal minority going out of their way to voice their opinions...

[TheLoneWolf]

I must admit, I'm a little surprised at the polarisation this design causes, but not everybody likes everything! I guess the world would be a boring place if we did.

The VF-2SS' critics do make valid complaints, but the VF-2SS is not a polarizing design. The problem begins when the same four or five people repeat their same criticisms every single time the VF-2SS is even mentioned in the slightest. It's borderline trollism and it gets very old very quickly.

[xrentonx]

I love the VF-2ss. It's a realistic design to me..........uh, keep in mind I know almost nothing about aviation. I just likes me some pretty airplanes. I'm also a simple man to please sometimes.

[Seto Kaiba]

The chest intakes on the vf-1 pipe down into the main intakes. Several real world fighters have a similar system. As for the vf-2 shoulder intakes going to the dorsal thrusters, those already have their own intakes. But again... even if the vf-2 is "specialized" for space... why does it have 6 intakes?

Why does the Valkyrie II have intakes?

Put simply, because it was originally conceived, both in-universe and from a production standpoint, as an all-regime fighter along the same lines as the original VF-1 Valkyrie. The original concept art for the VF-2, called the "VF-XS Valkyrie II" on the couple of occasions when it was trotted out for magazine promo pieces, was a more traditional design that had some distinctly atmospheric touches like air brake panels in the dorsal hull/chest plate. It was also designed with a set of Super Parts laid out like the VF-1's, with two large dorsal booster pack/missile launcher combo packs, forearm missile packs, and leg tanks. Later on, the designers introduced the concept for the VF-2JA (which inherited the "VF-XS" designation) and finished the design for the VF-2SS as what we're familiar with today... making it a space optimized Valkyrie with a less traditional set of space equipment. Four intakes are reaction engines. Can't tell ya what the intake lookin' things are in the bottom of the chest tho.

According to the "VF History" piece and creator interview in B-Club 79, the VF-2 was originally designed and produced to be an all-regime Valkyrie (J and S variants are mentioned). The base VF-2S was modified for use as a dedicated space fighter, which was introduced in 2081 as the VF-2SS. The J-type was used as the starting point for development of a dedicated atmospheric VF, which became the VF-2JA and was rolled out in 2086.

[3dvectored_difference]

1. HI all,
   

I don't know about you guys, but I liked MII. So much so that it has me awaiting M7!! I think they both actually move away from the others in the series intelligently, the other Macross features rely on music pretty heavily and MII and M7 actually develop that concept quite well, M7 has me worried, but sorry again to say, because of the rep it has here. Could MII have been better, YEP, is it crap? NO. But hey, I can see a movie and if there was a new element to it than other movies or tv shows, then it pretty much is a good thing for me, so my list of things I won't watch again is VERY low, like 2-5, and I just turned 35 recently.

Of course what puzzles me is the lack of possible originality. Philosophically, it is impossible as EVERY new piece of tech owed its conception to someone taking parts of what already existed to make that new piece probable. Even if you had to make a new component, you still are using the same chemical compounds known right now. Every thing owes its definition to something else, meaning nothing is ever new, it is merely updated or upgraded.

Air-eek...

[sketchley]

If you like originality, than M7 has it. A lot of the members here that speak negatively of it do so because they were expecting it to be like SDFM, DYRL, M+, and MII.

They also tended to have viewed it in blocks (say 4 to 8 episodes in one viewing). Some supporters of the show have recommended a slower rate (1 episode per day). But to each there own.

Nevertheless, back to originality: M7 introduces some concepts that are very important to later series. I don't want to make a list of them (as I don't have the time and don't want to spoil things for you), but let's just leave it at: the influences are both technological and spiritual. Both of them forming the cores of later shows like M0 and MF.

EDIT: and to keep this relatively on topic: aside from the basic story and some of the characterizations, I generally enjoyed MII. My tastes have changed in the intervening decades, but I still like some of the original things introduced. The one that sticks out is using the hulls of Zentraadi ships as places to build cities. Quite unique. Alas, it wasn't portrayed in the series as well as it could have been (the same holds true for the Protodevyln, IMHO).

Edited February 18, 2012 by sketchley

[Cobra__]

I don't care what anyone says, I really enjoyed it.

+1.

I've always thought of Macross II as the Turn A Gundam of the Macross universe. So different mecha wise, character wise from any other macross series that most fans ended up hating it. A real pity, since the VFs in Macross II are some of sexiest and best designs ever.