The MW Automotive Thread 5.0 GT

[SchizophrenicMC]

Yeah, you and every "car guy" from here to Timbuktu. They've got some standouts, but for the most part, their cars aren't worth the premium because the engineering is so half-assed, everything is going to break and cost German sports car money to fix, even though 2 of the 4 cars they make now aren't sports cars, but a sedan and a diesel SUV. At least in the 80s, they were a sports brand that made sports cars. Even if those cars were either still air cooled, or had really stupid things like the right half of an Audi V8 and a crunchy transaxle that makes the cargo floor too high to be usable in spite of a massive glass hatch. And then they made that car for over 10 years, and it was even based on another car, that was based on another car.

Porsche doesn't design cars, they evolve one car vaguely toward a better performing but much dearer version that will inevitably break down and cost the family fortune to fix. And I don't care for that supposed level of performance anyway. Anything where they switch to DSG "because it shifts faster than a man" is beyond my capacity to make frakks be given. Be honest: you really did it because it's a higher-margin item that lazy rich people will buy because you can tell them it's sporty, but you both secretly know they're only buying it because of the automatic mode, because these cars only sell in most of their markets because of the prestige somehow associated with the sports brand owned by the car company started by the Nazis and named after the guy Hitler personally contracted to make the iconic Nazi wagen.

And seriously, the Cayenne has a diesel version! It's bad enough it's an SUV, they're tough to make sporty as it is, but a 3-liter diesel V6? And it's on the list of emissions-cheating VWs now? Guess it's time to kick the guy who just moved from Porsche to VW CEO. Or did we stop being quite so outraged by the time that news came out?

[areaseven]

Personally, I could never own a German car, or even a Volvo. My old man has a 2006 Mercedes-Benz C-Class he bought from a former Japanese ambassador; so it happens to be JDM (despite the fact that nearly all Benzes imported into Japan remain left-hand-drive because the Yakuza supposedly prefer it that way). It got into an accident and we had to wait over six months to have the two left-side doors replaced. Oh yeah, it sometimes stalls, and it's an automatic.

My dad also has a 2000 Volvo S80. The tropical climate has warped the rear view mirror and Volvo wants US$1,000 for a replacement. He can't even sell the car, as Volvo has an almost non-existent resale value around here. Furthermore, people are very cautious about buying used cars due to frequent typhoons and floods.

[reddsun1]

And don't forget: at some point, they will actively try to kill you.

[areaseven]

And don't forget: at some point, they will actively try to kill you.

I thought that was Lamborghini's job.

[Vifam7]

I thought that was Lamborghini's job.

Lamborghinis today are just Audis with Lamborghini styling.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Vifam7

[anime52k8]

This thread got so stupid so fast.

[spanner]

This thread got so stupid so fast.

Agreed

[SchizophrenicMC]

Personally, I could never own a German car, or even a Volvo. My old man has a 2006 Mercedes-Benz C-Class he bought from a former Japanese ambassador; so it happens to be JDM (despite the fact that nearly all Benzes imported into Japan remain left-hand-drive because the Yakuza supposedly prefer it that way). It got into an accident and we had to wait over six months to have the two left-side doors replaced. Oh yeah, it sometimes stalls, and it's an automatic.

My dad also has a 2000 Volvo S80. The tropical climate has warped the rear view mirror and Volvo wants US$1,000 for a replacement. He can't even sell the car, as Volvo has an almost non-existent resale value around here. Furthermore, people are very cautious about buying used cars due to frequent typhoons and floods.

I spent enough time working in various segments of the automotive industry to know buying a German car is a very poor value proposition. They're very unreliable due to their overly complex engineering and construction. Leasing makes sense if you have the cash and credit to snuff it, but buying and especially buying used is a bad idea. Volvo is in the same category, even though it is Swedish. I hesitate to say "European" however, because Fiat exists.

Lamborghinis today are just Audis with Lamborghini styling.

The ones that sell with any volume, anyway.

This thread got so stupid so fast.

Agreed

You two are just mad we don't like Porsches, calm down.

[spanner]

Hehe! To be honest I only like the 911.. and a handful of other models such as the Carrera GT, 918, 959.. the rest of them are junk.

[areaseven]

[spanner]

an ex girlfriend of many years ago had a 2002, well it was her mums but she drove it until it was hit from behind and written off.. I did offer to buy the car for the money it was insured for (which was more than they eventually received as a payout from the insurance company anyways) in order to attempt a repair but her parents thought the idea was "dodgy" somehow (f@#$wits) and let the insurance company take the car. It was such a clean good condition car (aside the rear damage) and I was so pissed off with them for not letting me have it.

Edited November 25, 2015 by spanner76

[spanner]

this is kinda cool..

[areaseven]

"Great Scott!"

[spanner]

So are they actually building this thing?

[areaseven]

So are they actually building this thing?

No. It's a one-off concept.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Easiest way to tell: the tailgate. For 3 reasons:

A) the release mechanism is inside the bed, like any shaved gate. That's fine for a one-off, but it doesn't sell well enough to justify tooling
B) it's understyled. They got rid of the cut lines, which again means new tooling, and again means it won't sell well enough to justify that
C) it has the old Toyota logo. Toyota isn't too big on heritage anymore. They've avoided naming anything a Celica for a long time, they dumped the Crown naming line, and they won't even allow brand continuity within their sub-marques. (SC anybody?) They don't like their history well enough to put hints to it into production.

Not really a shame though. The wheels are TRD, all sorts of bumpers will exist for this truck, KC Hi Lites are just KC Hi Lites, and the only other special thing besides the tailgate is the roll bar, which I'm sure somebody could make you if you were so interested. Otherwise it's just a black Tacoma Extended Cab with manual transmission. Though, if I ever do end up with a new black Tacoma, remind me to get a big-ass TOYOTA decal made up for it.

[Sildani]

You'll have to get the vintage KC light caps though. The current ones have a different font, if you care that much.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Anything is possible with decals.

[spanner]

[spanner]

[Shadow]

Hmm, love the Lancia Delta. Makes me glad they're finally changing the WRC regulations in 2017. I stopped following the sport after they moved to the subcompact cars and away from the 2.0L engines.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I stopped following the sport after they abandoned homologation rules completely in favor of AWD widebody Fiestas.

[Shadow]

I stopped following the sport after they abandoned homologation rules completely in favor of AWD widebody Fiestas.

Agreed. I've tried to follow it at times. The cars have no identity anymore and the sport is dominated essentially by one driver (once Loeb, now Ogier). Even current F1 has had more interesting results during a season.

[areaseven]

I stopped following the sport after they abandoned homologation rules completely in favor of AWD widebody Fiestas.

Agreed. I've tried to follow it at times. The cars have no identity anymore and the sport is dominated essentially by one driver (once Loeb, now Ogier). Even current F1 has had more interesting results during a season.

WRC, F1, and NASCAR have all become generic cash-grabbing motorsports. Sure, it's easy to blame the new safety regulations for the races being boring compared to the past decade, but it seems obvious that the governing bodies are favoring certain drivers over the rest. If you thought the Sebastian Loeb Show (WRC) was bad, NASCAR had it worse with the Jimmie Johnson Show. And let's not forget the Sebasian Vettel/Lewis Hamilton Show on F1.

[SchizophrenicMC]

All 3 sports have become dominated by one person each (if I hear Hamilton say one more thing about hard-fought anything, I'll kill something) and they've all become boring win-fests for whoever can throw the most money at the formula.

Dammit, screw safety, I want cars to go back to being modified road cars that killed people. You want millions of dollars to go racing, accept the risk of death or Lauda-esque disfigurement.

[areaseven]

Here's one for the Wheeler Dealers fans: an interview with possibly the tallest mechanic in the world.

[Shadow]

Can agree that the FIA has been screwing things over for the past decade. Reading about how the FIA want to strike a balance between what fans want and what companies want in showcasing their technology is abit amusing. Group B came closest to meeting that goal when you had what was then state-of-the-art material and tech going into the cars while getting ridiculously large crowds.

[areaseven]

File this under "Why?":

[spanner]

File this under "Why?":

That's exactly what I was thinking..

[Sildani]

Sweet, sweet money. The answer to at least 70% of the "whys". VW wants Bentley to be more profitable. The way to do that is an SUV, which apparently market research says its customer really want. This also gives them economies of scale, so that whatever new chassis, suspension bits, and so on they come up with can be spread around further. Finally, an SUV doesn't cost too much more to make than a sedan, but you can charge a lot more for it, which means more profit right there.

So yeah. Money.

[areaseven]

Sweet, sweet money. The answer to at least 70% of the "whys". VW wants Bentley to be more profitable. The way to do that is an SUV, which apparently market research says its customer really want. This also gives them economies of scale, so that whatever new chassis, suspension bits, and so on they come up with can be spread around further. Finally, an SUV doesn't cost too much more to make than a sedan, but you can charge a lot more for it, which means more profit right there.

So yeah. Money.

See, that's where I have a problem. Companies such as Bentley and Rolls-Royce were never meant to be profitable. They were only meant for the 1% of the world's population who didn't mind waiting up to a year for their car to arrive. Introducing an SUV in the Bentley line simply cheapens the marque, as having a platform shared with Audi and Porsche defeats the purpose of Bentley being a bespoke car manufacturer. What's the whole point of owning a Bentley if your next-door neighbor happens to own one too?

[SchizophrenicMC]

Sweet, sweet money. The answer to at least 70% of the "whys". VW wants Bentley to be more profitable. The way to do that is an SUV, which apparently market research says its customer really want. This also gives them economies of scale, so that whatever new chassis, suspension bits, and so on they come up with can be spread around further. Finally, an SUV doesn't cost too much more to make than a sedan, but you can charge a lot more for it, which means more profit right there.

So yeah. Money.

Basically the exact reason Porsche makes an SUV, which is the best-selling model it builds. (Including its diesel model)

[reddsun1]

Don't forget: there's bunches of cashed-up footballers (or I guess it's 'soccer players' to us Yanks) out there who'd probably be ready to form a queue for one. And for that matter, think of all the sales to be garnered from the NFL and MLB rosters, eh?

[Sildani]

See, that's where I have a problem. Companies such as Bentley and Rolls-Royce were never meant to be profitable. They were only meant for the 1% of the world's population who didn't mind waiting up to a year for their car to arrive. Introducing an SUV in the Bentley line simply cheapens the marque, as having a platform shared with Audi and Porsche defeats the purpose of Bentley being a bespoke car manufacturer. What's the whole point of owning a Bentley if your next-door neighbor happens to own one too?

And that's what led to RR getting bought by BMW, and Bentley by VW. Those 1% don't spend money too often. Companies don't last without being profitable, unless subsidized by the government, or bought by other, larger companies. Who then want profitability.

[areaseven]