t040484 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 i'd say get the vf-17first, if you have money later then get vf-19s or if you have enough money then get both, i myself getting both of them just got my vf-17 yesterday, and waiting for my vf-19s to arrive it should be awesome, i suggest you get both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tober Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Bah, I never look at the manual. BECAUSE I'M A MAN! Actually I rarely look at transformation guides unless I feel like I might break something. For me part of the fun of transforming toys is figuring out how they work. That said, it took me about 4 or 5 minutes to transform everything on the 17 but the hip mechanism - that alone took an extra 10 minutes and required watching Veef's video. I was actually doing it right, it's just so tight that it felt like I was doing it wrong. ^ Yep, there it is right there. I use the manual if I think I'm stressing something, and then at the end I read through it to see if I missed something like a gimmick. Can't give transformation times for myself yet as I'm waiting for the D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Personally, I think the vf-19 is the better toy and if you're only going to get one, I'd go with the 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommar Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Overall the 19S is more solid in all three modes. However I've never had more fun posing a Valk in Battroid then the 17. So I guess it depends on what you want to do with it. If you want it completley solid in all three forms (give or take an ankle issue) and you're going to transform it back and forth again the 19 is your best bet. If you usually keep your toys in one mode and like to do different Battroid Poses I think the 17 is more fun in that regard and the other two modes look pretty good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locidm Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Ya I think I may just get one or another. I only have so much disposable income that has to be spent between super robots, macross, and transformers. The VF-17 and 19 are the only non DYRL/1982 TV series/Frontier valks that have my interest, as I'm not a Macross 7 fan. However, they are both different enough but yet good looking in its own way that warrants a purchase in my book. So far, one vote for each of them. More input is welcomed. I enjoy figuring out the transformation for the first time, and then after that it's about shelf presence. Which one is more imposing on the shelf? The 19S has the awesome blue while the 17 has size (and I love the matte graphite). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommar Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 If you ask me the 17's Battroid mode definitely is the more imposing of the two. If you're going to leave it on the shelf in that mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t040484 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 the vf-17 is the most imposing valk in fighter mode i have. it is so big compared to any other valkyrie, and the stealth look is very menacing. although it can look better if it have optional missiles on it's wing anybody know the reason why only vf-0 and vf-1 have missiles on it's wing? where do the other valkyrie store the missiles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 What other color varations can we expect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) where do the other valkyrie store the missiles? micro missile launchers: Edited January 19, 2012 by anime52k8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 the vf-17 is the most imposing valk in fighter mode i have. it is so big compared to any other valkyrie, and the stealth look is very menacing. although it can look better if it have optional missiles on it's wing anybody know the reason why only vf-0 and vf-1 have missiles on it's wing? where do the other valkyrie store the missiles? other valks have hard points for external missiles (in addition to the internal micro missiles) but they're hardly ever shown that way in the shows so they aren't part of the toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMax Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'll say take both if you can, but since you have to pick one.... I'll say the VF-17. Design wise, it is probably one of the most non traditional valks we have seen, especially when you take into account the "attack" gerwalk mode. Also, it is the more expensive of the 2, so picking this one up, you won't feel so bad about picking the VF-19S up in future. In toy form, the 19 already has 2 iterations in the form of Fire valk and YF-19, so its not that dissimilar in terms of silhouette. The 17 is a totally unique one. Plus its probably among the most imposing of the 1/60 valks in battroid mode Pilots wise.... I would choose Gamlin/ Kinryu anytime over that prick Docker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t040484 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 micro missile launchers: thanks, but where did you get this info? kinda new into macross still trying to catch up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 is there another way to get the elbow cannons out for gerwalk mode other than pinching them and pulling them out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 is there another way to get the elbow cannons out for gerwalk mode other than pinching them and pulling them out? Use the Force, Luke. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 thanks, but where did you get this info? kinda new into macross still trying to catch up http://www.macross2.net/m3/m3-index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locidm Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Thanks for the input guys. I'm leaning towards the VF-17. LOL, my favorite part was the pilot comparison where 17 wins hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I'd say definetely go with the -19S. Honestly, I think it will be a much more satisfying purchase. Sure, the -17 is imposing and great and all, but the level of engineering on the 19S (or kai) is simply a full step ahead of the -17, which doesn't seem to have the level of refinement that I felt the -19 had. Couple that with really awesome integrated gimmicks that I see missing in the -17 (awesome cockpit gimmick for battroid, though this is due to -19 design, missiles in the feet, pretty much locking tabs EVERYWHERE, and even gives you option parts for anime accuracy), and you're looking at a much more satisfying purchase at an even cheaper cost. If you have already decided on the -17, it would be impossible for me to convince you otherwise, but do take a look at the numerous reviews that many people on this forum provide. For the -19 at least, I suggest you take a look at Jenius's review (anymoon.com), as he really breaks everything down quite well, and usually without favoritism bias that many other reviewers tend to have. Edited January 19, 2012 by Archer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Your comparison seems biased :< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reïvaj Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I think the VF-19 is probably a slightly better toy, but the VF-17 is far more M7 iconic while still an excellent toy. It’s not true the -19 has more gimmicks; the -17 also has a very nice cockpit gimmick for battroid, it stores the gunpod in the feet, the gunpod itself is probably cooler, and the neck cover is integrated rather than an extra option part. It’s also very solid and poseable. Let’s be fair with the comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Well, I tried not to be biased. Actually, I myself HATED the VF-19 Kai that I bought (aesthetic issues as I have mentioned before), and I mentioned a few posts ago that I actually prefer the design and aesthetics of the VF-17. But to be honest, the VF-19, when one considers engineering, economic worth (what you get vs. what you pay), and even gimmicks, I can't help but say the VF-19 is a better toy. I think even Graham mentioned it a gew pages ago. Regarding gimmicks, the -17's cockpit does open, yes, but that's more of a byproduct of the transformation than the actual design of the toy itself. I did mention this in my post though, as I said that a cool cockpit design was an element of the -19 design itself. As for gimmicks, sure, the VF-17 does have an integrated neck cover, but does it have integrated fist covers for fighter mode? See, it all balances out in that realm, and the -19 gives us an extra shield to augment that anime accuracy. Gunpod is cooler? Well, that really is up in the air for opinion, but sure, I agree with you, it is cooler. But it's implementation is not. It has to split apart to fiddle into the gaps in the -17's legs instead of a single gunpod fitting into a single side of the leg. The -19 gave us an anime accurate shield, so why couldn't the -17 give us a single smaller gun option to fit in the calf? I think that would have been reasonable (please consider that this does cost like $40ish more than the -19). lastly, as I mentioned, the -19 even has integrated missiles in the legs, and just as much posability, I think, as the -17. I never said the -17 wasn't solid, just that the -19 is an overall better toy for what you're paying. Sure, the -17 is a wonderful toy, but it's that level of refinement, as I have said before, that the -19 achieves that I have yet to see recreated in any other transforming macross toy....cept for maybe the 1/3000 sdf-1 Sure, a lot of what I say stems from the aesthetic and design nature of the Vf-19 and Vf-17 respectively, with the former potentially having a more toy inclined design, but honestly, should that matter? The OP asked which toy was better, I'm telling him. Putting the toy on unequal grounds due to one's anime designs making it harder shouldn't really be a component of the situation. Sorry for teh rant, lulz Edited January 20, 2012 by Archer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I think both toys accomplish all they need to. The VF-17 even has the edge because it has built in Super Pack attachment points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reïvaj Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Good point. And Mr. Graham’s preferences don’t need to be everybody else’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) I think you are taking my arguments out of proportion here. We need to approach this in a holistic manner. As I have said, both toys are great. Since you mention the built in fast pack points for the -17, where does the Sound Booster for the -19 Kai fit in? As we can see, the -19, by your argumentation alone, now has the advantage as a much more sophisticated armor add on is available exclusively for the -19. I actually don't think that either toy gets an advantage by having such add on parts though, as they do not come boxed with this toy (just going by your own reasoning, lol). All aspects have to be examined before conclusions can be drawn at such hasty speeds. As for the Graham thing, I just mentioned that the guy probably most reknowned for loving the -17 (He's got 4 ) stated that the -19 is a better toy. I don't think I ever mentioned that that is the defining aspect of the -19 that puts it out ahead. Lulz, you guys acuse me of bias.... "preferences don't need to be anyone else's" - I think we are coming from very different standpoints. When one removes all the iconic and well known crap, anime magic blah blah, and I saw this valk the first time I watched macross 78 years ago, we reach an unbiased standpoint where the two toys can be compared. Preferences are inherently the stem point for bias. Sure, everyone has their own preference, as you have stated, but that is also a source of bias, that we are trying to overcome. Since the OP said that he likes both designs equally, preferences needs to be taken out of the equation, and thus, is why I am arguing as I am. /Rant Edited January 20, 2012 by Archer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locidm Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Thanks for the wonderful input. I did read both reviews by Jenius and was impressed with both. Both seem to be great toys and that's what makes it hard to decide between the two. To sum up what I have read: VF-17 : more attractive design due to its distinctiveness from all other valk more shelf presence due to larger size more expensive VF-19: slightly better engineering potentially slightly better gimmick, small margin more bang for the buck Let me take this into another direction, which valk will hold its value better over time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the update! Honestly, I wouldn't put your bets on either of these holding any real value over time, as we rarely see modern toys of such nature really rack up much value unless they are uber limited releases like the YF-29. Furthermore, if a company like Yamato sees that there is a lot of market value for these toys, I'm fairly sure they will rerelease them. But anyway, since you asked, I am fairly positive the Vf-17 will hold more value over time (well, maybe, as it's not selling all that hot right now either). I base this on the fact that, no matter how one argues, it's a REALLY obscure valk in the toy world. There has only been, what, one other transforming VF-17 TOY (the Bandai one), but the VF-19 has seen plethora of releases, such the the Bandai Hi-Metal and the original bandai. Couple this with the fact that there is the equally popular (internationally) yf-19 and its own variants, and we can see that the -17 is a much more obscure design in the realm of toys. Thus, the -17 should hold its market value over time longer, if anybody of course is actually interested in buying the thing. If Yamato does go ahead with their stated production lists, as mentioned by Graham, there will be 4 variants of the -19 made (kai, S, F, P) versus the three (S, D, and Miria) variants of the -17. This too should, statistically, help the -17 out. Qualitatively though, it may be a detractor. All of the -19 variants have some unique design element change to them (save for S to F transition). For example, short vs. long wings, 4 distinct head sculpts, speakers in the kai's shoulders, gun changes, etc. The -17, save for the head transition to the -D model, are mostly just repaints. Thus, I percieve that the average consumer (as average as Yamato macross consumers come ) will have an easier time justifying purchase of a -19 in the future (if they already have one), than say someone who already own's a -17. Still, the -17's uniqueness should still put it on top in my opinion. But honestly, as I have said, don't keep faith that any of these Yamatos will really hold much market value. Modern day toys rarely do.... Edited January 20, 2012 by Archer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 don't check ebay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-18S Hornet Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Hey VF5SS Thanks again for your video I was finally able to correctly move the neck back and push the shoulders down as seen here in this photo. Edited January 20, 2012 by VF-18S Hornet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 All modern toys disintigrate after a few years, so I really wouldn't bother asking about holding value after time.....LOL! (And I bet you think I'm joking!) Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reïvaj Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [...] why couldn't the -17 give us a single smaller gun option to fit in the calf? I think that would have been reasonable (please consider that this does cost like $40ish more than the -19). Seriously? Why would Yamato give us another smaller gun option just to be stored in a place where you can’t see it anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Seriously? Why would Yamato give us another smaller gun option just to be stored in a place where you can’t see it anyway? Actually, after playing with the gun, I think it would be neat if it did come with a little bullpup gunpod that did fit in just one leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reïvaj Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Actually, after playing with the gun, I think it would be neat if it did come with a little bullpup gunpod that did fit in just one leg. Is it because you'd like the gunpod to be smaller than the line art or just for the sake of being able to store it in only one leg? Or you'd want both sizes? Edited January 20, 2012 by Reïvaj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Is it because you'd like the gunpod to be smaller than the line art or just for the sake of being able to store it in only one leg? Or you'd want both sizes? No, I just think that the half of the gun with the handle and stock already looks like a bullpup like a p90 and it looks really cool like that. So, to be clear, I want a small bullpup gunpod, not an itty bitty version of the vf-17's regular gunpod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reïvaj Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsain Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Nice pics hornet! Eugimon, that smells like a good scratch build idea. Maybe shapeways? (null) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Seriously? Why would Yamato give us another smaller gun option just to be stored in a place where you can’t see it anyway? Well, I wouldn't mind having one, as it'd be cool to put the toy in a pose where it's reaching for and grabbing its gun from the leg, much like in the anime. Now, I can only make a fiddly one where its building it's own gun in the middle of battle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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