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33 minutes ago, Keith said:

Nah, we just don't know the juicy story details. Something like Misa saying "If I catch you with Minmay again I'm burying this fleet in the deepest darkest fold fault I can find." Or "Kaifun is trying to catch up with the fleet, quick, hide in that fold fault."

"I told you we should've pulled over to ask for directions..."

 

3 minutes ago, RaisingCane said:

Could the Megaroad have stumbled across a Protoculture world that was conquered by the Vajra king?  Perhaps Hikaru and Misa are leading a war of liberation across all the alien worlds that the Vajra have occupied.

... I think there might be some Robotech-isms creeping in here.

There isn't a Vajra "king", as such.  The Vajra are not even individually intelligent.  What their species has isn't quite a traditional hive mind so much as each Vajra is an individual node in a vast biological version of a distributed computer network achieved via biological zero-time fold communication.  They have a communal intelligence that exists "in the cloud" the biological fold wave network forms, though its thought process and worldview are wholly alien to the individually-intelligent humanoids of the galaxy.  The Vajra's Queen forms are no more sentient than any other Vajra on individual terms.  Biological reproduction aside, their function is to serve as network routers that regulate and direct communication inside the Vajra's distributed network.

It's not clear if the Vajra even have a concept of "conquest", their species has led a harmonious existence for so long that the Protoculture supposedly idolized them for it and tried to emulate it technologically in a bid to solve their internal strife.  They nest in various places that are convenient to the resources they need to thrive, but they're not aggressive unless provoked and since they can live in places that are generally inhospitable to humanoids they're not exactly competing with humanoids for territory either.  The only reason they were attacking the Macross Frontier fleet in Macross Frontier was that Ranka's biological fold wave emissions made them think Ranka was a Vajra and needed rescue (not to mention it was her signature song "Aimo" that is tuned to produce fold waves equivalent to a Vajra mating call), and they attacked Macross Galaxy because Macross Galaxy attacked them first and was actively hunting them for their fold quartz.  As long as humanoids leave them alone, the Vajra don't seem to even mind living on the same planet as humanoids as on Uroboros.

 

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On 12/11/2021 at 6:41 PM, RaisingCane said:

Before I ask anything else about Macross, are any of these good questions or am I just making a nuisance of myself?

Just curious. Have you watched any Macross besides SDFM or watched SDFM (non-Robotech'd)?

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Why is no one asking the most important question? Has there been any more story on Galaxy Whales, and are they essentially a species created by the Protoculture in an attempt to make a biologically based fold booster?

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1 hour ago, Keith said:

Why is no one asking the most important question?

Alas, the world may never know what Kakizaki's favorite dry rub for steaks was...

 

1 hour ago, Keith said:

Has there been any more story on Galaxy Whales, and are they essentially a species created by the Protoculture in an attempt to make a biologically based fold booster?

"Sort of" and "Signs point to No", respectively.

Macross Chronicle devoted a World Guide sheet devoted to them (#18A).  It mentions the prevailing theory is that Galactic Whales are a species that predates the evolution of the Protoculture.  It also makes multiple references to the Zolan belief/theory that the white whale that Graham Hoyly was so intent on bringing down was potentially over one million years old (though the average whale's lifespan is believed to be ~7,000 years).  If true, that'd mean the white whale was around when the Protoculture were still figuring out things like agriculture.

Given what was established in Dynamite 7 about being able to harvest material from Galactic Whales for use in fold systems and Frontier's material later establishing the ancient Protoculture's technology was inspired by study of natural super dimension life forms like the Vajra, it seems likely that the reverse is true.  That the Protoculture may have made studies of galactic whales to learn the secrets of space folding and potentially modeled the Zentradi's warships on the whales themselves.

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9 hours ago, RaisingCane said:

Could the Megaroad have stumbled across a Protoculture world that was conquered by the Vajra king?  Perhaps Hikaru and Misa are leading a war of liberation across all the alien worlds that the Vajra have occupied.

From the Playstation game DYRL bonus Lynn Minmay's Goodbye Message Card Minmay says they are following a melody or music at the center of the galaxy. It could be Protoculture or something else. From the Macross F novelization Richard Bilrer believes the Vajra can bring him to where Megaroad-01 was. Going Miclone he hopped on a VF-1 following the Vajra folding out.

Whether coincidence or not Xaos Ragna branch received transmissions from Megaroad-01 right after the Vajra War. This is where Lady M according to Berger Stone's investigation started appearing in the galactic scene.

 

 

Edited by RedWolf
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3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Alas, the world may never know what Kakizaki's favorite dry rub for steaks was...

 

"Sort of" and "Signs point to No", respectively.

Macross Chronicle devoted a World Guide sheet devoted to them (#18A).  It mentions the prevailing theory is that Galactic Whales are a species that predates the evolution of the Protoculture.  It also makes multiple references to the Zolan belief/theory that the white whale that Graham Hoyly was so intent on bringing down was potentially over one million years old (though the average whale's lifespan is believed to be ~7,000 years).  If true, that'd mean the white whale was around when the Protoculture were still figuring out things like agriculture.

Given what was established in Dynamite 7 about being able to harvest material from Galactic Whales for use in fold systems and Frontier's material later establishing the ancient Protoculture's technology was inspired by study of natural super dimension life forms like the Vajra, it seems likely that the reverse is true.  That the Protoculture may have made studies of galactic whales to learn the secrets of space folding and potentially modeled the Zentradi's warships on the whales themselves.

That all checks out. Also, let me know when you publish your Macross encyclopedia, we seriously need to petition BW to let you publish one.

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4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 If true, that'd mean the white whale was around when the Protoculture were still figuring out things like agriculture.

"Protoculture Agriculture"... well, now we know how the war really started: the Supervision Army wanted fresh bread and the Protoculture wouldn't share it with them! 🤣

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1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

"Protoculture Agriculture"... well, now we know how the war really started: the Supervision Army wanted fresh bread and the Protoculture wouldn't share it with them! 🤣

No, that was the Zentradi Meltrandi split!

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That's pretty much it. Studio Nue and Haruhiko Mikimoto (who was never part of Studio Nue) provided the story and designs.

Tatsunoko Production and Artland provided the animation the series. Notably, Artland blessed the series with quality animation (eg: Booby Trap, Countdown). Meanwhile, Tatsunoko didn't even use their own in-house animators. Instead, they farmed out their work to subsidiaries, like Star Pro, who did inferior work (eg: Virgin Road).

To be fair, Tatsunoko's inclusion appears to be a last-minute arrangement, so their own animation teams might've been committed to other projects at the time. And since SDF Macross wasn't even one of their creations, there's less incentive to assign good animators.

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My understanding is that Studio Nue had an arrangement with Big West to make the cartoon, and when this turned out to be more work than they could handle, Big West hired Tatsunoko to help.

And then when it turned out they couldn't afford Tatsunoko's help, they inked a deal giving Tatsunoko international distribution and merchandising rights. This decision is VERY familiar to us.

 

Big West is the actual owners of the brand, and likely the ones who greenlit the movie. Definitely the ones that decided to do Mac II without Studio Nue.

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23 minutes ago, Keith said:

No, that was the Zentradi Meltrandi split!

Interesting thing learn about the Protoculture from their AI that they left behind. The AI at Altira would have us believe that the Protoculture went for cloning reproduction that caused their schism. Some came to Earth to retry their civilization again. Though it seems too simplistic. The Ruins of Rax has the Protoculture conflict coming from colonizing space. The Bird Human was programmed to wipe off humanity if it went to space as aggressors. 

 

Then there is the while folklore of them being Vajra fanboys. Though there is a possibility they are also Galactic Whale fanboys due to the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs. And the whole Protoculture girl being part of the native folklore. Such as Roy Waka and the Star Singer. 

 

46 minutes ago, RaisingCane said:

Could the ARMD-class carriers docked to the Macross be replaced by Uraga-class or Guantánamo-class carriers?

We don't know. I think the Guantanamo class was supposed to take the role of the ARMD class but we knefer saw it docked to either a Macross class or Megaroad. We have seen both the Guantanamo class and Uruga class docked with emigration ships. Island Jackpot aka Valett City when it arrived on Ragna looked like it had an Uruga docked rather than a Battle Class.

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1 hour ago, RaisingCane said:

Could the ARMD-class carriers docked to the Macross be replaced by Uraga-class or Guantánamo-class carriers?

Long answer: With some creative retrofitting, anything could be made to fit.  Short-answer: Not off-hand.

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3 hours ago, Joe CM said:

I've been a Macross fan since 1985, however, there is something still eluding me with regards to the show's creation: was Studio Nue solely responsible for the designs and story  of Macross while Tatsunoko provided the animation???  

Super Dimension Fortress Macross was a bit of a joint effort.

Studio Nue, and particularly Shoji Kawamori, originated the series concept and pitch and they developed it initially under the sponsorship of the Wiz Corporation... a name that Artmic briefly rebranded under in 1980-1981.  Due to the reorganization of Wiz Corp, the series was cut loose and found a new sponsor in ad company Big West.  They continued to develop it in partnership with Artland.  When they completed development and went to start production, they quickly found out Big West had significantly lowballed the budget because of their lack of experience in animation sponsorship and so Studio Nue and Big West entered into a deal with Tatsunoko Production to have Tatsunoko bankroll the animation production and in exchange grant them the international distribution and merchandising rights to the series.

(Artland's development involvement was the contribution of Haruhiko Mikimoto, who designed the characters, though the designs are owned by Studio Nue and Big West.)

Ownership of the material is all about who paid for it to be made (work-for-hire).

Artmic (as Wiz Corp) originally sponsored development but Studio Nue bought out Artmic's stake in the series when they parted ways.  Big West sponsored the rest of development.  So Big West and Studio Nue jointly own the designs, concepts, etc. of the series because they essentially split the check.  Tatsunoko, for its part, owned the copyright on the physical animation itself but not the material in it because they only financed the show's production.

 

 

1 hour ago, RaisingCane said:

Could the ARMD-class carriers docked to the Macross be replaced by Uraga-class or Guantánamo-class carriers?

Not without a retrofit.

Since only twelve more Macross-class ships were made between the end of the First Space War and the design's retirement in favor of the Battle-class, it wasn't a concern that ever really came up.  Especially since there's not really anything wrong with the postwar ARMD II-class that's usually used in that capacity except that it isn't particularly stealthy.

 

58 minutes ago, TehPW said:

So who thought the TV run was successful enough to merit a Movie?

Big West.

They lowballed the budget on Macross because they were inexperienced with animation sponsorship and weren't expecting the series to take off like it did.  Once it did take off, they (in partnership with Tatsunoko) are the ones who greenlit an extension to the series (ep28-36) and then Big West later greenlit a movie version based on the show's continuing success.

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1 hour ago, RedWolf said:

If we go by Macross F Wings of Goodbye the Guantanamo are not being mothballed or scraped as Earth is switching to the Uruga as their main carrier. It has a big hole in the middle might as well make it a Gunship. And Earth's defense grid suddenly became even scarier.

Well, of course not... and not just because that switch is not, in fact, happening.

The Guantanamo-class Advanced ARMD is only slightly older than the Uraga-class escort battle carrier, and it's noted to be a good deal cheaper and was highly versatile thanks to its simple and highly adaptable hull structure.  Macross Chronicle indicates that the Guantanamo-class (sometimes called the Maizuru-class) is still very much the standard NUNS space carrier in 2059 (and beyond) for those reasons.  The more expensive Uraga-class is used more sparingly as taskforce command ships and for surface operations because it was designed to be water landing-capable.  Like the Northampton-class and Battle-class, those designs were made with an eye towards future-proofing and are being updated and modernized as time goes on rather than discarded and replaced.

(Mind you, the New UN Spacy continues to use the ARMD-class and ARMD II-class as well.  Waste not, want not, they might not have the long range endurance of the Guantanamo-class, but they make great planetary defense ships.  An old ARMD-class in orbit of Eden was used as the base for space testing on the YF-19 and YF-21, and one is seen among the ships of the Macross 7 fleet in 2046 in Macross 7 Trash as well.)

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13 minutes ago, RaisingCane said:

I feel like the Northampton could use a replacement that's a bit sturdier.  Don't they get destroyed more than any other ship?

Well, they're the most numerous by a significant margin (over 9,000 built by the mid-2040s) and tend to outnumber any other type in fleet operations by at least 2:1 because they're a dedicated escort/picket type... so the law of averages is working against them there in a big way.  Their overall performance is said to be quite good even in 2059.

There are enhanced versions and uparmed derivative models like the Stealth Cruiser from Macross Frontier.

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9 hours ago, RaisingCane said:

Shouldn't they at least have a pinpoint barrier system? 

That'd depend on how much of a generator surplus the ship has to play with.

One of the problems with defensive measures in Macross is that a lot of them are very energy-intensive.  Active stealth systems draw a lot of juice for high-speed analysis of enemy radar beams and generation of an inverse-phase pulse of the same wavelength and amplitude to cancel the radar return out.  Energy conversion armor draws an enormous amount of power to generate the electromagnetic pulses needed to saturate the armor material and change its molecular bonding.  Barrier systems are probably the worst of the lot, as the  barrier is no force field... it's an artificial dimensional fault.  A very localized twisting of a small area of space-time into an impassible knot.  It takes a lot of energy to produce even a very small pinpoint barrier.  Barriers are also very different from standard sci-fi "shields" in that they're not selectively permeable... the enemy can't shoot you through that artificially distorted space, but you can't shoot him through it either.  It's an impassible obstacle in both directions.

Active stealth is a standard defensive measure for the New UN Spacy's avoidance-based approach to the Zentradi and many ships use massively thick layers of energy conversion armor to beef up their defensive power.  It's likely they just don't have enough energy to spare to produce a pinpoint barrier large enough to repel anti-capital ship fire. 

(Some escort ships, like the ones the NUNS Varauta system defense force had, did explicitly possess barrier systems but were never depicted using them in combat.)

 

9 hours ago, RaisingCane said:

Doesn't every variable fighter since the VF-19 have one?

Yes, the miniaturized pinpoint barrier system was one of the defining features of 4th Generation Variable Fighter designs like the VF-19, VF-22, and VF-171.  

Of course, the aforementioned problem regarding power consumption still applies.  That pinpoint barrier system draws about 60% of the VF's maximum generator output to produce one barrier about the size of the Battroid's head or up to three little ones about the size of its fist.  The way power is reallocated between propulsion and defense between modes, that huge draw on the thermonuclear reaction turbine engine's generator stage meant that the barrier system could only function in Battroid mode.  

Improvements in engine and generator technology in the 5th Generation Variable fighters (YF/VF-24, VF-25, VF-27, YF-29, YF-30, VF-31, Sv-262, etc.) freed up the VF's options a little, with twin-engine VFs being able to operate their barrier systems in GERWALK mode in normal operation and sustain limited operation of their barriers in Fighter mode if a substantial external power source like the capacitor banks in the VF-25's Armored Pack were present.  Four engine models like the VF-27 were noted to be able to run their barriers in a somewhat limited manner in Fighter mode without external assistance, though they were only noted to be used in the event the VF was trying to exceed the friction-heating "speed limit" at low altitudes (~10km and below) to avoid burning itself to a crisp with the air friction of its own speed.

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1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

...  It takes a lot of energy to produce even a very small pinpoint barrier.  ...

And it takes a lot of power to sustain the barrier under fire/bombardment without overloading the the power systems. So either the PPB power depletes (bad but survivable) or one blows out the entire power system (of which you'll have to be pried out of that expensive non-flying paper-weight, if one survives that long).

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4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That'd depend on how much of a generator surplus the ship has to play with.

One of the problems with defensive measures in Macross is that a lot of them are very energy-intensive.  Active stealth systems draw a lot of juice for high-speed analysis of enemy radar beams and generation of an inverse-phase pulse of the same wavelength and amplitude to cancel the radar return out.  Energy conversion armor draws an enormous amount of power to generate the electromagnetic pulses needed to saturate the armor material and change its molecular bonding.  Barrier systems are probably the worst of the lot, as the  barrier is no force field... it's an artificial dimensional fault.  A very localized twisting of a small area of space-time into an impassible knot.  It takes a lot of energy to produce even a very small pinpoint barrier.  Barriers are also very different from standard sci-fi "shields" in that they're not selectively permeable... the enemy can't shoot you through that artificially distorted space, but you can't shoot him through it either.  It's an impassible obstacle in both directions.

Active stealth is a standard defensive measure for the New UN Spacy's avoidance-based approach to the Zentradi and many ships use massively thick layers of energy conversion armor to beef up their defensive power.  It's likely they just don't have enough energy to spare to produce a pinpoint barrier large enough to repel anti-capital ship fire. 

(Some escort ships, like the ones the NUNS Varauta system defense force had, did explicitly possess barrier systems but were never depicted using them in combat.)

 

Yes, the miniaturized pinpoint barrier system was one of the defining features of 4th Generation Variable Fighter designs like the VF-19, VF-22, and VF-171.  

Of course, the aforementioned problem regarding power consumption still applies.  That pinpoint barrier system draws about 60% of the VF's maximum generator output to produce one barrier about the size of the Battroid's head or up to three little ones about the size of its fist.  The way power is reallocated between propulsion and defense between modes, that huge draw on the thermonuclear reaction turbine engine's generator stage meant that the barrier system could only function in Battroid mode.  

Improvements in engine and generator technology in the 5th Generation Variable fighters (YF/VF-24, VF-25, VF-27, YF-29, YF-30, VF-31, Sv-262, etc.) freed up the VF's options a little, with twin-engine VFs being able to operate their barrier systems in GERWALK mode in normal operation and sustain limited operation of their barriers in Fighter mode if a substantial external power source like the capacitor banks in the VF-25's Armored Pack were present.  Four engine models like the VF-27 were noted to be able to run their barriers in a somewhat limited manner in Fighter mode without external assistance, though they were only noted to be used in the event the VF was trying to exceed the friction-heating "speed limit" at low altitudes (~10km and below) to avoid burning itself to a crisp with the air friction of its own speed.

 

3 hours ago, azrael said:

And it takes a lot of power to sustain the barrier under fire/bombardment without overloading the the power systems. So either the PPB power depletes (bad but survivable) or one blows out the entire power system (of which you'll have to be pried out of that expensive non-flying paper-weight, if one survives that long).

Agree on both. Essentially, energy is life in a space battle. And in addition to the limited stores of energy, just how many systems can you run at once before it taxes your ship's/ fighter's systems? I know they are robust, but sooner or later, you're going to have overheating, competition of computer processing power, demands on already-used energy conduits, etc. At this point, I think something called "strategy" and another called "tactics" come into play...

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Interesting, so if the PPB is a mini fold fault (which now makes total sense visually & with the massive destruction of a barrier explosion), then is a "Dimension Eater" also essentially a localized fold fault?

And on that note, is fold quartz some type of anti-fault, or simply a condensed power source strong enough to allow for a field to be generated to belay the effects of a fault.

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I'm gonna answer this one slightly out of order, because it'll make the explanation a lot easier.

 

4 hours ago, Keith said:

And on that note, is fold quartz some type of anti-fault, or simply a condensed power source strong enough to allow for a field to be generated to belay the effects of a fault.

Fold quartz is a high-purity form of fold carbon, a type of crystal oscillator with higher-dimensional properties that is the essential macguffin behind gravity control and the various applications of fold technology.  It functions as something analogous to a radio crystal in the production of fold waves and it's also used as a catalyst in producing heavy quantum, the dimension-crossing exotic particle with super-high mass which is manipulated with fold waves in order to produce various gravitational effects used in thermonuclear reactors, fold systems, and dimensional weapons.  The amount of mass the heavy quantum has stashed in fold space increases with the purity of the fold carbon, so systems using higher-purity fold carbon can produce more intense gravitational effects.

Heavy quantum produced by normal fold carbon has such stupendous mass that only a part of its total mass is needed to provide the gravitational pressure needed to ignite and maintain a thermonuclear fusion reaction.  Abruptly triggering its mass to drop into realspace is used to provide the critical fuel compression used in thermonuclear weapons, an environmentally-friendly and infinitely sustainable substitute for the heavy-element fission bombs used as triggers in fusion warheads today... and the main reason that reaction weapons leave behind no long-term radiological contamination.  By triggering the gravitational collapse of heavy quantum in an open-ended shielded space, it collapses on itself and the resulting thermonuclear explosion triggered by its self-compaction is corralled into a high-velocity fusion plasma beam... the super dimension energy cannon, known by other various names including "heavy converging beam cannon", "heavy quantum reaction cannon", and "Macross Cannon".

As an exceptionally pure form of fold carbon, fold quartz produces an especially powerful superheavy quantum that exerts exceptionally intense gravitational force.  This can be used to produce the "zero-time" fold waves and super-intense fold effects that are powerful enough to be unaffected by fold faults.  It can also be used to produce an even more terrifying class of weapons of mass destruction.

Fold carbon supposedly is a naturally occurring substance produced in supernovae, though virtually all of the fold carbon in use by humanity is synthetic and non-official setting materials like Master File assert that improvements in the quality of synthetic fold carbon have been a driving force behind the ever-increasing power of thermonuclear reaction turbine engines used in VFs.  Synthesizing fold quartz is currently beyond what human technology can achieve, so the only way to acquire it is from mining Protoculture ruins on various planets or hunting Vajra, whose queens can synthesize fold quartz from fold carbon biologically.

 

4 hours ago, Keith said:

Interesting, so if the PPB is a mini fold fault (which now makes total sense visually & with the massive destruction of a barrier explosion), then is a "Dimension Eater" also essentially a localized fold fault?

dimension eater is, for all intents and purposes, a fold bomb created using fold quartz and the extremely intense gravity exerted by the superheavy quantum it produces.

Thermonuclear reaction weapons use the intense gravity exerted by heavy quantum to trigger a fusion detonation in the hydrogen fuel stored in the warhead, resulting in a "clean" nuclear detonation that doesn't scatter fissile decay products.

Dimension eaters use the even stronger gravitational force of the superheavy quantum only fold quartz can produce all on its own.  When its full mass it forced into realspace via fold wave resonance, it creates a space fold effect so intense it's like a short-lived miniature black hole.  Everything in range is violently crushed by the intense gravitational force produced by the superheavy quantum and pulled into fold space where it's annihilated.  It can also be applied to dimensional beam weapons, changing the fusion plasma beam into a particle beam of microsingularities that strip matter right out of the universe, making it the last word in armor-piercing.  The size of the effect is fortunately limited by the quantity of superheavy quantum in the warhead, though even a minivan sized bomb can potentially destroy a planet as happened to Gallia IV in Macross Frontier.

Because the necessary superheavy quantum and the requisite fold wave resonance needed to set it off can only be created using fold quartz, the proliferation of the dimension eater weapons has been slowed considerably by New UN Government regulation of the mining and sale of fold quartz and the material's scarcity since it can only be obtained in Protoculture ruins and Vajra carcasses, neither of which are exactly safe to mess with.  Protoculture ruins tend to be dangerous places where the terminally irresponsible, short-sighted Protoculture left dangerous weapons and the Vajra tend to take being hunted rather personally... and respond appropriately.  (Restrictions on the mining and trade in the valuable crystals were a direct factor in the Kingdom of the Wind's decision to secede from the New UN Government, seeing those restrictions as an impedient to the economic growth of the planet which otherwise had only agricultural products to offer.)

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It also possible Fold Carbon or Fold Coal is mined as well. One of the places as options to exile Isamu by his Commander was Banipal which has coal mines. Also another possible source of Fold Carbon are Galactic Whales but is illegal as it is a protected species. Poachers hunt Galactic Whales and sell them to the Black Market as Spaceship parts.

Windermereans runes on top of their heads are Biological Fold Quartz. The Protoculture likely engineered them this way along with environmental factors. The soil where they plant their Apples is full of Fold Quartz from the Protoculture ruins. When their Apples are combined with mineral water from Protoculture ruins they produce the chemical Seidnole. This chemical is known to cause Fold Bacteria ,which was originally from Vajra, to explode in number thus causing Var Syndrome. Now those with Fold Receptor Factor or Space-Time Resonance Ability are less susceptible to the Var Syndrome. 

 

Interestingly Galactic Whales in their yearly migration to Planet Zola carry with them Bacteria. If somebody is not a native Zolan with immunity and not given First Aid when they are injured they could die. Basara despite being injured managed to get to the Hoiley's home in a Sleepwalking state. Elma carried him through Catsnake Forrest to the healing Hot Springs which flows from the Galactic Whale graveyard.

 

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13 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'm gonna answer this one slightly out of order, because it'll make the explanation a lot easier.

 

Fold quartz is a high-purity form of fold carbon, a type of crystal oscillator with higher-dimensional properties that is the essential macguffin behind gravity control and the various applications of fold technology.  It functions as something analogous to a radio crystal in the production of fold waves and it's also used as a catalyst in producing heavy quantum, the dimension-crossing exotic particle with super-high mass which is manipulated with fold waves in order to produce various gravitational effects used in thermonuclear reactors, fold systems, and dimensional weapons.  The amount of mass the heavy quantum has stashed in fold space increases with the purity of the fold carbon, so systems using higher-purity fold carbon can produce more intense gravitational effects.

Heavy quantum produced by normal fold carbon has such stupendous mass that only a part of its total mass is needed to provide the gravitational pressure needed to ignite and maintain a thermonuclear fusion reaction.  Abruptly triggering its mass to drop into realspace is used to provide the critical fuel compression used in thermonuclear weapons, an environmentally-friendly and infinitely sustainable substitute for the heavy-element fission bombs used as triggers in fusion warheads today... and the main reason that reaction weapons leave behind no long-term radiological contamination.  By triggering the gravitational collapse of heavy quantum in an open-ended shielded space, it collapses on itself and the resulting thermonuclear explosion triggered by its self-compaction is corralled into a high-velocity fusion plasma beam... the super dimension energy cannon, known by other various names including "heavy converging beam cannon", "heavy quantum reaction cannon", and "Macross Cannon".

As an exceptionally pure form of fold carbon, fold quartz produces an especially powerful superheavy quantum that exerts exceptionally intense gravitational force.  This can be used to produce the "zero-time" fold waves and super-intense fold effects that are powerful enough to be unaffected by fold faults.  It can also be used to produce an even more terrifying class of weapons of mass destruction.

Fold carbon supposedly is a naturally occurring substance produced in supernovae, though virtually all of the fold carbon in use by humanity is synthetic and non-official setting materials like Master File assert that improvements in the quality of synthetic fold carbon have been a driving force behind the ever-increasing power of thermonuclear reaction turbine engines used in VFs.  Synthesizing fold quartz is currently beyond what human technology can achieve, so the only way to acquire it is from mining Protoculture ruins on various planets or hunting Vajra, whose queens can synthesize fold quartz from fold carbon biologically.

 

dimension eater is, for all intents and purposes, a fold bomb created using fold quartz and the extremely intense gravity exerted by the superheavy quantum it produces.

Thermonuclear reaction weapons use the intense gravity exerted by heavy quantum to trigger a fusion detonation in the hydrogen fuel stored in the warhead, resulting in a "clean" nuclear detonation that doesn't scatter fissile decay products.

Dimension eaters use the even stronger gravitational force of the superheavy quantum only fold quartz can produce all on its own.  When its full mass it forced into realspace via fold wave resonance, it creates a space fold effect so intense it's like a short-lived miniature black hole.  Everything in range is violently crushed by the intense gravitational force produced by the superheavy quantum and pulled into fold space where it's annihilated.  It can also be applied to dimensional beam weapons, changing the fusion plasma beam into a particle beam of microsingularities that strip matter right out of the universe, making it the last word in armor-piercing.  The size of the effect is fortunately limited by the quantity of superheavy quantum in the warhead, though even a minivan sized bomb can potentially destroy a planet as happened to Gallia IV in Macross Frontier.

Because the necessary superheavy quantum and the requisite fold wave resonance needed to set it off can only be created using fold quartz, the proliferation of the dimension eater weapons has been slowed considerably by New UN Government regulation of the mining and sale of fold quartz and the material's scarcity since it can only be obtained in Protoculture ruins and Vajra carcasses, neither of which are exactly safe to mess with.  Protoculture ruins tend to be dangerous places where the terminally irresponsible, short-sighted Protoculture left dangerous weapons and the Vajra tend to take being hunted rather personally... and respond appropriately.  (Restrictions on the mining and trade in the valuable crystals were a direct factor in the Kingdom of the Wind's decision to secede from the New UN Government, seeing those restrictions as an impedient to the economic growth of the planet which otherwise had only agricultural products to offer.)

With that description in mind, Seto: would it be possible to use a dimension eater weapon to absorb/ destroy another energy weapon beam ? Although I suspect such a weapon would be best used to destroy the ship/ fleet trying to fire it!

From the sounds of it, those might have made a difference in Space War 1 if they had the tech back then!

Edited by pengbuzz
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12 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

With that description in mind, Seto: would it be possible to use a dimension eater weapon to absorb/ destroy another energy weapon beam ? Although I suspect such a weapon would be best used to destroy the ship/ fleet trying to fire it!

I have absolutely no idea.

 

12 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

From the sounds of it, those might have made a difference in Space War 1 if they had the tech back then!

All in all, it's probably for the best that they didn't.

From Macross Delta, it seems like if you use a dimension eater in the wrong place you can do unpleasant things to spacetime in the blast area like what happened to Carlisle. 

 

 

2 hours ago, RaisingCane said:

Would it be fair to say that fold crystals are analogous to the flower of life from Robotech?

Definitely not.

Ignoring, for the sake of my sanity, what a complete and unholy mess the entire concept of the "flower of life" and "protoculture" in Robotech is...

Conceptually, they differ on pretty much every level. 

Keeping it simple, you could say the two defining traits of Robotech's "flowers of life" are that they're the raw material needed to create an exotic superfuel without which you can't do any advanced sci-fi shenanigans and that they're the rarest substance in the universe, which is why everyone's going to war over them.  Macross's fold crystals aren't a fuel, and aren't used in the creation of fuel.  Naturally occurring fold crystals are on the rare side, as something that can only be obtained from supernovae remnants, but they're not scarce by any means because they can be synthesized industrially.  They're not essential for all advanced technology, you can power powered suits and other tech incl. giant robots with advanced nuclear batteries and other sources if you want.  They're just essential if you want to use compact thermonuclear reactors as a power source and for FTL navigation and communication.  All the other stuff can be done without it.  They're also not consumed by use.  They catalyze the creation of heavy quanta, but the same fold crystal can be used forever as long as it's suitably protected against mechanical stresses that might cause cracking or chipping.  They have no practical use in bioengineering or anything outside of being the higher-dimension equivalent of a radio crystal and producing heavy quantum... unless you want to count non-practical uses like jewelry.

Fold quartz is scarce for the moment because it doesn't occur in nature - it has to be synthesized - and humanity hasn't yet reached the point of being able to synthesize the stuff themselves.  The Vajra Queens synthesize fold quartz biologically, and the ancient Protoculture had the means to synthesize it technologically, but humanity's synthesis tech hasn't quite reached that level yet so they're still dependent on extracting it from Protoculture ruins or Vajra carcasses.  (This is the reason that ultra-high end VFs like the YF-29 or YF-30 can't be mass-produced... they require fold quartz in such huge quantities and high purities that it's nearly impossible to find without synthesizing it yourself, since even the Vajra don't normally refine it that much or in that size.)

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Fold Carbon aka Fold Coal aka Fold Ore, and Fold Quartz are material needed to produce artificial gravity. That is how Fusion power is achieved in Reaction Engines or Fold Reactors. By crushing matter to produce Plasma. That is why in Atmosphere VFs virtually do not need fuel to fly as air is fuel. Space however needs full fuel tanks. This is why the Sv-262 Draken III had a limited flight time during deployment. It has small fuel tanks. Also why Hayate is warned how he uses his RCS thrusters. The guy wastes his fuel in Space.

 

 

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