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Most of the dialog is forgettable, and generally mediocre to bad.

Have to agree strongly on this one. David Goyer is absolutely terrible at writing dialog. Before I saw the film, I had the fear that pairing him with a director like Zack Snyder (whose films are typically weak on dialog and character) would lead to a film that would make listening to what was spoken almost unbearable. While that didn't quite happen, it's not far from it. You can almost feel half the scenes in the film land with a thud. So leaden and lacking anything approaching drama.

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This film garnered absolutes in love or hate. I think I love it because sups never left me through out the years. I've been into DC characters and still watch JL, JLU, YJ, etc about every other week. I've seen all the DC animated movies. I have not delved too much into comics except for batman stuff. So by that info, they have shown a lot of sides of superman with really great stories. The blue boyscout is old news to me.

In this film, Clark did not know how to be a superman. He's learning and I appreciate the seriousness of an alien being picked on all his life and not being allowed to smash your face in. Sure it could have been edited better, but I also appreciate the chances that Zack takes.

Bryan Singer made the safe superman which was almost a direct copy of superman 1, look what happened there. I walked out of that movie liking it, but a little bit underwhelmed because I'm tired of Lex trying to gain property, and he has a kid...what? Lois and Clark got cancelled for that crap (sort of). I've always wanted to see a live action battle in the city and I got it.

People saying it was soulless or robotic... I don't get it because I felt the emotion.

In the end, I think half the people wanted what they've already seen or the last memory they had of sups was in the 80's.

I could go on and on, but in fairness I can understand some of the arguments against and some I just disagree with. We're not gonna chance each other's minds anyway.

I totally agree with your comments. The film was very heartfelt at moments it needs to be, and very exciting when the action kicks in. And I really like the way this film set up superman as a 'rookie' superman so to speak. Not just in the way he needs to learn to fly, but also how he needs to deal with people and villains in such a big scale...for the very first time. People complained about his actions, the collateral damages he caused, without even thinking too much of how a person would react in those situations in a more realistic fashion. Even Superman can make mistakes, and I bet in the next movie, they will exploit a lot on this plot point. Just that many viewers didn't seem to see that being pathed for the next film, and complain about it because this Superman didn't save everyone with a charming smirk on his face like a pro. :) Imagine when there are 3 or more dudes that each can fight him on equal terms (or even beating him single handed), do you still think he has time to flying around and save others, when he can barely survive the fight? Would Zod and others be so kind to give him a breather and said "why don't you go help evacuate those people, we'll continue in a moment", when Zod nad company made it very clear its the humans they will take out and let Superman see to suffer. I mean, come on...be a bit realistic.

Many of the complains went back to the "this is not the Superman how I imagined", therefore commented on every aspect of the film in a negative tone. And I don't see Lois is any more pointless than the Lois in the Reeves movies. In fact, she did quite a bit more in MOS, showed her professionalism as a reporter, had more respect and understanding on Clark Kent and his tormented history, and even did a good part in saving the world. So where is the logic behind the criticism of her being bad or pointless?

Also, about his reaction to Pa Kent. Don't forget he just had a fight in the car with him and said something quite hurtful, which made Clark felt very bad and guilty. Would you be more submissive to what your dad says after you felt very guilty of hurting his feelings? I would.

Don't get me wrong, just want to continue a friendly discussion. As I see this movie really divide the crowd to extreme sides much more so than many other films I've seen for a while. Carry on. :)

Edited by mpchi
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This film garnered absolutes in love or hate. I think I love it because sups never left me through out the years. I've been into DC characters and still watch JL, JLU, YJ, etc about every other week. I've seen all the DC animated movies. I have not delved too much into comics except for batman stuff. So by that info, they have shown a lot of sides of superman with really great stories. The blue boyscout is old news to me.

In this film, Clark did not know how to be a superman. He's learning and I appreciate the seriousness of an alien being picked on all his life and not being allowed to smash your face in. Sure it could have been edited better, but I also appreciate the chances that Zack takes.

Bryan Singer made the safe superman which was almost a direct copy of superman 1, look what happened there. I walked out of that movie liking it, but a little bit underwhelmed because I'm tired of Lex trying to gain property, and he has a kid...what? Lois and Clark got cancelled for that crap (sort of). I've always wanted to see a live action battle in the city and I got it.

People saying it was soulless or robotic... I don't get it because I felt the emotion.

In the end, I think half the people wanted what they've already seen or the last memory they had of sups was in the 80's.

I could go on and on, but in fairness I can understand some of the arguments against and some I just disagree with. We're not gonna chance each other's minds anyway.

I got the emotional side of it as well; they spent quite a bit of time showing Clark Kent as a completely lost and ostracized individual who just wanted to be accepted and use himself for good but couldn't because of what he was, what he represented.

You can argue that fewer people care... but you look at things like the NSA program. I think people do care and want the country to be a certain way, and I think Superman would be a great way to capture those feelings.

Going back to what made our country great, and having Superman show some of that off.

I don't want to get political or anything, but yeah, I think the gritty superman is just writers who are too lazy to update the story for today. Grant Morrison was able to do it properly, but nobody else that I know of.

Agreed, I guess it was a missed opportunity. My thinking is that since they're just establishing Superman in this movie maybe they can chase down ideas like that one in the next film.

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...

3. Superman was just too bulky. Part of what makes him fantastic is that he is a muscular, yet lean guy who can do amazing feats of strength. Clark isn't the hulk, or even Thor. He is a really big guy. He would have had a farm boys physique. Lean muscle from repetitious moves like shucking hay, or plowing earth. Superman looked like a roided gym rat. Just didn't work for me. But it's a minor complaint. I know cultures change and looks change, so I understand that they have to keep up with the times...

:o

The oposite is what bothered me about Christopher Reeve. The guy is strong, he should look it. He never looked skinny in the comic. In fact he looks like a bodybuilder in the comic and pretty much always has:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/72/Superman.jpg/250px-Superman.jpg

This one really shows my point:

http://www.supermaninthebronzeage.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Episode-74.jpg

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Finally got to see it. I Loved it! Strangely though, I do agree the final battle did seem to go on and on and on. It wasn't boring or anything but just seemed a bit long to me is all.

And agree...Faora....wowzers!! Soooooo sexy.

Chris

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:o

The oposite is what bothered me about Christopher Reeve. The guy is strong, he should look it. He never looked skinny in the comic. In fact he looks like a bodybuilder in the comic and pretty much always has:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/72/Superman.jpg/250px-Superman.jpg

This one really shows my point:

http://www.supermaninthebronzeage.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Episode-74.jpg

I'll concede the point. haha.

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Both Bruce Wayne and Clark are 6'4" and built like mac trucks. It's OK though, apparently superhero universes are poplulated with guys like that so you can't tell who's NOT super powered. I agree with Gakken though... that suit is way too texturized, just like the Amazing Spider-Man's suit. Wasn't that basically their underwear? I mean, Jor-El too off his armor to swim in it. So they got rid of the briefs and made the whole thing a onesie... :p

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Since many of us have already seen Man of Steel, let's see what MW's votes are:

I. Rank All of the Superman Movies from Best to Worst

II. Best and Worst Categories

Best Superman:
Worst Superman:
Best Clark Kent:
Worst Clark Kent:
Best Lois Lane:
Worst Lois Lane:

Best Villain:

Worst Villain:

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Since many of us have already seen Man of Steel, let's see what MW's votes are:

I. Rank All of the Superman Movies from Best to Worst

II. Best and Worst Categories

Best Superman: MAN OF STEEL

Worst Superman: Superman IV: The Quest For Peace

Best Clark Kent: MAN OF STEEL

Worst Clark Kent: There weren't really any in the films, maybe Return of Superman

Best Lois Lane: Superman the Movie

Worst Lois Lane: MAN OF STEEL

Best Villain: MAN OF STEEL

Worst Villain: Gene Hackman as Lex Luthor in any Christopher Reeve Superman

Answers^

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I. Rank All of the Superman Movies from Best to Worst

II. Best and Worst Categories

Best Superman: Man of Steel
Worst Superman: Superman 4, followed closely by Superman 3
Best Clark Kent: Brandon Roush/Routh/Ruth/Rush, Return of Superman
Worst Clark Kent: I can't answer this one
Best Lois Lane: Amy Adams, Man of Steel
Worst Lois Lane: Margot Kidder, Superman 1-4

Best Villain: Mike Shannon/G-Zod, Man of Steel

Worst Villain: Gene Hackman/Lex Luther

Edited by myk
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Fantastic action. The scenes with Faora are the best of the movie. But the script is not up to the visuals.

Finally a Superman film that looks like there is a Superman. Problem is that it dragged a bit and like many have said, the dialog and drama are very lacking. It ruins good ideas. A Clark that does not know his place was a nice take but the movie could not bring the ideas to port correctly. Lane’s key part in making this Superman have faith in humanity ends up hamfisted when it was a great take.

Liked how there were many humans doing also heroic stuff.

Miss Lane has to have done an incredible piece of PR work on her article about Superman saving the world because to the average Joe Supes is probably part of the problem.

- He only saves a family after doing god knows how much damage.

- The only information the average Joes in the movie had was that there was this group of aliens searching for another alien.

- To them the whole thing could look like the invasion was the result of not giving up the illegal immigrant in question. Only Lane knows that the military gave up Supes.

- The only witnesses of Superman doing good are Lane, the saved family and military personnel. Other people just saw some blurs hitting each other and destroying everything.

- From the outside, it really looks like the US military saved the day. They dropped the bomb that stopped the annihilation of Metropolis. Would the US military go on record saying that Lane, her magical Super Jesus and his ghost dad told the US how to save the world?? “Yeah, an alien we know crap about had to tell us what to do because we were pretty much useless otherwise. You can trust your government to keep its citizens save… yeah”.

- Lanes article would be the seen as a slap to the face to the thousands of families of the victims. “yeah, I saw everything with my own eyes (sorry, forgot to take pics that day) and every time I was falling to my death Supes saved me. Anybody that saw me here and there is dead but ask the military to tell you how an illegal immigrant saved me and the worlds ass. Where was he when he was not saving me or any of the thousands that died in Metropolis you ask? He was on the other side of the planed fighting tentacles in the middle of nowhere.”.

WTF was with

Jor-el, Dragonmaster???? They wanted him to be such a bad ass??

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Here are my votes:

I. Rank All of the Superman Movies from Best to Worst

1. Superman: The Movie (1978)

2. Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut (2006)

3. Superman II (1980)

4. Man of Steel (2013)

5. Superman Returns (2006)

6. Superman III (1983)

7. Superman IV: The Quest for Peace (1987)

II. Best and Worst Categories
Best Superman: Christopher Reeve (Superman I-IV)
Worst Superman: Brandon Routh (Superman Returns)
Best Clark Kent: Christopher Reeve (Superman I-IV)
Worst Clark Kent: Henry Cavill (Man of Steel)
Best Lois Lane: Margot Kidder (Superman I-IV)
Worst Lois Lane: Kate Bosworth (Superman Returns)
Best Villain: Terence Stamp as General Zod (Superman I-II)

Honorable Mention: Rocky the Diner Bully in Superman II
Worst Villain: Mark Pillow (voiced by Gene Hackman) as Nuclear Man (Superman IV: The Quest for Peace)

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Really? You think using a nuclear missile to blow up the San Andreas fault and sink California into the Pacific ocean in order to inflate real estate prices, then flying against the rotation of the earth really fast so that he can travel back in time and save one person during a disaster that probably killed thousands is the best Superman movie?

:huh:

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It's 2013. Everybody know Supermans origin story. Why not do something like All-Star Superman that tells a new story while paying tribute to the 80 years of super history?

MY KIDS DON'T KNOW HIS ORIGINS YET SO STFU! :lol:

All joking aside, this movie will hold well into the future unlike the Donner films that have pretty much lost their luster.

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Yeah... It sucks.

Here's mine

Best Superman: Chris Reeve
Worst Superman: Superman Returns
Best Clark Kent: Chris Reeve
Worst Clark Kent: George Reeves or Dean Cain
Best Lois Lane: Noel Neill
Worst Lois Lane: Kate Bosworth

Best Villain: Terrence Stamp... don't like the movie but still like orignal Zod

Worst Villain: Kevin Spacey/Lex Luther

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That's why I said it was funny.

Funny that you brought up a private message in superman topic?

Anyway, Nobody is picking on me. Mommar was harassing me for awhile but I have the ignore feature. And I don't think my arguments are stupid.

Edited by Gakken85
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Now you're just making stuff up. I said Superman II Director's Cut sucks and I'm not bringing up a PM. You report people to the mods when you can't get out of an argument. And like now, you continue a useless argument cuz you can't stand not having the last word even if that means making staements out of thin air... like me not liking Donner. For the last time let it go.

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I'm going back to talking about Superman and which movie I think is the best.

I loved Superman II director's cut. Superman 2 is great on it's own, but Donner's extended version cuts out a lot of the frivolous jokes and hammy romance, plus their is more action and more Brando!

Rotten Tomatoes gave the "Donner Cut" an aggregate rating of 88%, much like Lester's Superman II.[12] IGN called the film the Best Director's Cut of 2006.[13]

It's a better version in every sense of the word. It's a little darker and has stronger characters.

If anybody hasn't seen it they should check it out.

Fantastic action. The scenes with Faora are the best of the movie. But the script is not up to the visuals.

Finally a Superman film that looks like there is a Superman. Problem is that it dragged a bit and like many have said, the dialog and drama are very lacking. It ruins good ideas. A Clark that does not know his place was a nice take but the movie could not bring the ideas to port correctly. Lane’s key part in making this Superman have faith in humanity ends up hamfisted when it was a great take.

Liked how there were many humans doing also heroic stuff.

Miss Lane has to have done an incredible piece of PR work on her article about Superman saving the world because to the average Joe Supes is probably part of the problem.

- He only saves a family after doing god knows how much damage.

- The only information the average Joes in the movie had was that there was this group of aliens searching for another alien.

- To them the whole thing could look like the invasion was the result of not giving up the illegal immigrant in question. Only Lane knows that the military gave up Supes.

- The only witnesses of Superman doing good are Lane, the saved family and military personnel. Other people just saw some blurs hitting each other and destroying everything.

- From the outside, it really looks like the US military saved the day. They dropped the bomb that stopped the annihilation of Metropolis. Would the US military go on record saying that Lane, her magical Super Jesus and his ghost dad told the US how to save the world?? “Yeah, an alien we know crap about had to tell us what to do because we were pretty much useless otherwise. You can trust your government to keep its citizens save… yeah”.

- Lanes article would be the seen as a slap to the face to the thousands of families of the victims. “yeah, I saw everything with my own eyes (sorry, forgot to take pics that day) and every time I was falling to my death Supes saved me. Anybody that saw me here and there is dead but ask the military to tell you how an illegal immigrant saved me and the worlds ass. Where was he when he was not saving me or any of the thousands that died in Metropolis you ask? He was on the other side of the planed fighting tentacles in the middle of nowhere.”.

WTF was with

Jor-el, Dragonmaster???? They wanted him to be such a bad ass??

Good points!

I also thought it was funny that superman decided to break Zod's neck when he was about to off 4 people he didn't know. AFTER he wrecked and entire city full of people! haha.

Edited by Gakken85
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It has been ages since I saw the original movies. all versions of Lex have been crap. Only good parts I remember of Supes II are the (great) fights. I feel I don’t need to see another Superman film. With the Marvel movies, I’ve always felt I wanted more after seeing the film. This one leaves me “ok, that it how it looks when two super beings fight, no need to see more of that because here it was getting tiring already”.

I have to say that I really liked Zod.

He is just another crazy eugenic like the Kripton rulers (look how disgusted he is to hear of a natural childbirth) but he also tries to save part of his culture instead of just letting it die. Really good moments with him. You can tell he was really pissed at the start of the last battle.

The killing Zod thing was a bit forced. Never do they establish that this version of Supes is “killing is super bad” so him screaming comes a bit out of nowhere (and he is surrounded by thousands of dead already, some he probably caused). Heck Nolan’s gritty Batman clearly states that he is out to scare and not kill; deaths that happen in the trilogy are either an accident (Talia and Dent) or not direct (choosing not to save Ra's Al Guhl). Superman freaking breaks a guys neck… and it didn’t feel like it was a last resort because he is just in top condition without a single bruise to his face or tear on his suit. Nolan goes out of his way to have his Bats basically morally clean but when he co-writes Supes, the ultimate example of a hero, he has him do a straight kill with his own hands? Gee, I wonder who is his favourite hero...

And speaking of death… Clark’s search for his heritage and turning on the old spaceship is what got Zod to Earth in the first place. In hero terms he needs to make up a lot for all the deaths he has caused. The answer to the question of “Does the world need a Superman?” in his universe right now is “frakk NO!!”. His saved counter before Zod arrives to kill thousands is just a school bus of kids and seven or so oilrig workers.

Jor-el’s unclear path to have the future of his race locked in his kid just ended up getting another species almost killed and Kriptonians really becoming extinct save for one individual. Even if Zod was another shade of the old stagnant eugenic Kripton, at least he had a chance to get things back up again. Jor-el just goes all high and mighty and condemns, by himself, his whole culture to death because it doesn’t go like he wants it to. He really is a lot like Zod in a way.

Not to say that Zod actions could be justifiet. Instead of obsessing over the genetic maguffin he could have started repopulating doing the nasty with Faora in those thirty years. There where a lot of males and females in that ship.

The Paul Dini Superman cartoon has the best Kripton: the super computer to which the whole planet depended on (Brainiac) hides the facts that the core is going to explode and downplays Jor-el’s alarms about the matter because it is busy building an escape ship for itself and gathering all of Kriptons information instead of wasting its resources on saving some fleshy Kriptonian. Jor-el goes all action hero to get to the truth but is too late and just manages to get his kid out of the planet. That is how you start a franchise and set up a sequel villain.

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So I've been out to see Man of Steel twice: once the weekend of the debut with a friend (who loves Superman), and yesterday with the family. My first viewing was at an Imax theater in 3D and the place was packed; this weekend, the family opted for the local theater in 2D. Around here, the film is still pulling in a fair crowd. I had a very positive experience at both places and I think the movie is great despite its flaws.

I think that the love-it or hate-it criticism is fair, and is a burden that the character of Superman can bear. Actually, it may even be a part of the mythology now. How can any one author or director define perfection? Or maybe there is better question raised by the new movie: Is Superman perfect?

During my second viewing, I noticed there are some dialogue goofs. For example, Michael Shannon was given the opportunity for reshaping an iconic villain into a modern bad guy; however, the dialogue was not always matching his performance. I'm thinking of one "either-or" quote in particular which had me shaking my head. That said, it is a small point. Overall, I thought Zod was much more heartless, determined, and raving in this movie than the calculated, equally heartless, yet dated Zod from Superman II. For me, both are good villains.

I also noticed quite a few details that I missed the first time when the movie ramped up to the fast-paced Kryptonian-focused second half. Although Internet memes would have me believe otherwise, Supes actually saves more than a few people in the movie! What is realistic about Man of Steel is that Superman is just one hero. He can save and warn people away from danger when he is around (like in Smallville), but if he is away (as in Metropolis), you are on your own.

The scene that made this poignant for me, was the one where Perry White and the Daily Planet crew were trying to get away from the world builder/ship thing. I thought that one did a good job of setting up a dramatic conflict where a highly advanced, super-powered civilization is ready to wipe out our own. It is on the level of a Douglas Adams monstrosity, but without the comedy. I know that isn't what everyone wants to see in superhero fantasy (and is actually controversial), but I feel that hero fanatasies give us these moments of humanity to reflect on ourselves, so I enjoy them and maintain that both DC and Marvel have a place.

Edited by technoblue
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