Ace Combat: Assault Horizon

[Chronocidal]

Glad to hear I might be worried about nothing then.

Having a more detailed cockpit sounds like a very nice thing, though cockpits in AC games have only ever been superficial, with the HUD being a screen overlay. If they actually tried to paste the displays into the real cockpit, I'll be very impressed, though I don't know if that'll be a good thing or not gameplay-wise. Would be a nice option to be able to turn on and off though.

I really hope they manage to fill out the hangar a bit more this time around though. Though they were mostly crappy, horribly inaccurate models, the wide variety of aircraft was the one thing hawx managed to do right. How they could be so dedicated as to include the YF-17 Cobra and then neglect to understand how aircraft even fly continues to make me scratch my head.

Right now, I'd really love to see a retro AC, set in either Vietnam, or an alternate world version of a similar conflict. I really just want an excuse to make a game where you can fly everything from the 1950's up through about 1970 or so. I was originally hopeful AC0 would use more older aircraft like the A-4, F-8, F-4, etc. So many beautiful planes came from that period in history, and have really gotten the short end of the stick in games. Plus, it gives you the possibility of having the F-14 be the end game superfighter, and wallop everything.

[renegadeleader1]

I found this on youtube and figured you guys might get a kick out of it.

[Ghost Train]

Right now, I'd really love to see a retro AC, set in either Vietnam, or an alternate world version of a similar conflict. I really just want an excuse to make a game where you can fly everything from the 1950's up through about 1970 or so. I was originally hopeful AC0 would use more older aircraft like the A-4, F-8, F-4, etc. So many beautiful planes came from that period in history, and have really gotten the short end of the stick in games. Plus, it gives you the possibility of having the F-14 be the end game superfighter, and wallop everything.

I like this idea too. Perhaps the success of CoD black ops in painting an "earlier era" in a stylish manner will move this idea forward. There is plenty of awesome Eastern Block hardware like the Mig-15/17 too. The F-4 can be the Osean super-plane, while the Mig-21 can be the enemy ace G-monster ace enemy squadron plane.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Ghost Train

[Chronocidal]

I just want them to find an excuse to include all those planes from history we never see. Everything between about 1950-1970 usually gets left out, with the , MiG-21, F-4 and F-5 variants in some games being rare exceptions. I really want some A-4, A-5, A-6, A-7 love, or some callbacks to the Strategic Air Command era with squadrons of Century Series interceptors stationed all over the country (F-100, F-101, F-102, F-104, F-106). Not to mention all the various fighter types the Navy went through back then (Tigers, Skyrays, Demons, Banshees, Crusaders, etc).

I kind of miss the way the aircraft companies operated back then actually. Not necessarily for the spending habits, but the way they were producing aircraft right and left (many with overlapping roles) as technology advanced, just to have the most up to date aircraft available. These days, everything is a joint forces effort, the development process is crazily complicated, and they can't keep up with the advances of technology even within a single aircraft design. Part of what makes things so difficult is that by the time an aircraft design even gets approval for a prototype, the technology they planned on using to build it is outdated, long before the thing is even built. In the end, we get planes that never seem to leave the development cycle because the designs keep getting updated for new technology before they're even built.

Anywho though.. it would be fun going back to that era for a new game. Going back that far though, the gameplay would change significantly, until you got up around Vietnam, since missiles really werent reliable until later in the Vietnam era.

Course, doesn't mean I wouldn't love to see Ace Combat: Mig Alley.

[renegadeleader1]

I just want them to find an excuse to include all those planes from history we never see. Everything between about 1950-1970 usually gets left out, with the , MiG-21, F-4 and F-5 variants in some games being rare exceptions. I really want some A-4, A-5, A-6, A-7 love, or some callbacks to the Strategic Air Command era with squadrons of Century Series interceptors stationed all over the country (F-100, F-101, F-102, F-104, F-106). Not to mention all the various fighter types the Navy went through back then (Tigers, Skyrays, Demons, Banshees, Crusaders, etc).

I kind of miss the way the aircraft companies operated back then actually. Not necessarily for the spending habits, but the way they were producing aircraft right and left (many with overlapping roles) as technology advanced, just to have the most up to date aircraft available. These days, everything is a joint forces effort, the development process is crazily complicated, and they can't keep up with the advances of technology even within a single aircraft design. Part of what makes things so difficult is that by the time an aircraft design even gets approval for a prototype, the technology they planned on using to build it is outdated, long before the thing is even built. In the end, we get planes that never seem to leave the development cycle because the designs keep getting updated for new technology before they're even built.

Anywho though.. it would be fun going back to that era for a new game. Going back that far though, the gameplay would change significantly, until you got up around Vietnam, since missiles really werent reliable until later in the Vietnam era.

Course, doesn't mean I wouldn't love to see Ace Combat: Mig Alley.

Personally I wouldn't want the F-3 Demon anywhere near an ace combat game unless I was trying to get myself killed in that underpowered POS deathtrap. The only good thing about is that it became a stepping stone to the Phantom. The skyray on the other hand is a great little plane, and I swear after being able to get up close and personal with one and the new england air museum, that who ever designed the F-16's airframe had that plane in mind.

Edited July 5, 2011 by renegadeleader1

[Chronocidal]

Agreed, I wouldn't want to fly the Demon either. But it wouldn't be the first plane in an AC game no one wanted to fly.

Ditto for the Skyray though. That plane is like a work of art, and looks like some futuristic thing out of science fiction. I got up close and personal with the prototype on display a while back, but it's in pretty bad shape.

[renegadeleader1]

This is awesome! I decided to look up the Skyray and the Fighting Falcon to see if anyone was behind both projects and I came up with Ed Heinemann. He was the guy that designed the Skyray(won an award for it) for Douglas and was the VP of engineering for General Dynamics where his last project was overseeing the F-16 prior to his retirement. There is definatly his handprint on both planes. He also has quite the resume...

SBD Dauntless dive bomber

A-20 Havoc light bomber/attack aircraft

A-26 Invader light bomber/attack aircraft

A-1 Skyraider attack aircraft

A-3 Skywarrior bomber

A-4 Skyhawk light bomber

F3D Skyknight night fighter

F4D Skyray carrier-based fighter aircraft

As for what I'd like to see from a Vietnam era Ace Combat, I would love to see a couple of missions based around the FAC/SAR/ close air support, as an excuse to fly an OV-10 bronco or an A-1 skyraider. More flak and ground fire too, sometimes it seems a little too safe flying into the enemies fortified capital.

[Ghost Train]

Apparently the Pak FA/T-50 is in this game: sauce

[BeyondTheGrave]

Played the helicopter mission demo. the camera is not too good imo.

[Keith]

Played the helicopter mission demo. the camera is not too good imo.

WTF happened, so far this game is as bad s HAWX.

[anime52k8]

WTF happened, so far this game is as bad s HAWX.

btw, where can you get the demo?

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Played the demo. Switch to original controls. CRA turns flight onto rails but only when engaged. Even so, gun kills can still be tricky. With original controls on you can roll and go inverted in CRA. If CRA is toggled off, controls are the exact same as previous Ace Combats.

[Chewie]

I just finished the demo and had a blast. The helicopters aiming/lock on system took a bit to get used to but after I did I was flying circles around rpgs and machine gun fire.

[BeyondTheGrave]

btw, where can you get the demo?

Xbox live or psn

[wm cheng]

Sooo so dissappointed! I can't believe I waited all these years for this?! I would of just settled for an up-rezed version of AC5. Is it me or was the graphics quite poor - I was surprised it was a PS3 game. Miami looked totally flat, just a aerial photo pasted on and the ground cover in the helicopter missions looked awful.

Too bad the AC5 flightstick & throttle doesn't work with this - the thumb controls totally lost me! Any plans on the full version being compatible with the flightstick & throttle (or putting those types of controllers out for the PS3)?

[Shadow]

Honestly, wasn't impressed with this. I tried the helicopter mission and hated the controls. I set the fighter controls to original. The new close quarters combat mode wasn't bad. The graphics were a downer though. The terrain didn't look all that much improved over what you got in AC5, to me atleast. I think this will be solid rental for me or a purchase when the price drops significantly.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Shadow

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I liked the demo. Definitely more cinematic, CRA wasn't bad. Since DFM is implemented and somewhat tricky to execute, I can see online dogfighting becoming more fun.

Just hope the MIG29 and 21 aren't compromised like on the PS2 games, same with F16. F16 was derated pretty bad in 6, while Joint Assault had the best stats overall per plane.

Hoping we can get an HD collection of the Ace Combat PS2 trilogy.

[Chronocidal]

Well, AC had a nice run.

Ace Combat:

1992-2011

RIP

Seriously... bloody freaking hell, I want to slap those developers for ever thinking this was a good idea. If the game is anything like the demo... yeah, I have no intention of paying anything for this game.

Ace Combat: Gimmick Assault embodies pretty much everything I have come to hate about current gen games. It's really sad too... the game is really pretty, and I would have loved it if they hadn't decided to rely on the features they did.

If they don't make that stupid close up view mandatory at at all, I can maybe see it working. But that view is the worst thing since the ass-off mode in hawx. The intro to the demo was terrible, I was trying to figure out why I couldn't steer.. and then I realized it was steering for me. I probably used 150 missiles on one enemy in the demo mission, and no amount of gunfire would ever bring it down unless I used that feature. I mean, I've heard of plot armor before... but gimmick armor? And oh yeah.. I let out a very loud WTF when I decided to see what the "counter maneuver" was, and the plane pulled an automated culbit. Automatic maneuvers in AC? HELL FREAKING NO. If I wanted that, I'd be playing Starfox 64.

If this demo mission isn't at all like the regular game, and they never force you to use that crap to take down anything, yeah, I can probably deal with it. But my hopes are not very high now.

Edit: On another playthrough, I realized that they pretty much require you to use that freaking camera gimmick on ANY higher level target.. yeah. Hope dwindling by the minute.

Oh yeah..and camera splatter.. seriously, WTF??????

Edited September 17, 2011 by Chronocidal

[Keith]

Did they fire all of Project Aces or what? The more I think about this demo, the more it seems worse than HAWX.

[Gaijin]

Hoping we can get an HD collection of the Ace Combat PS2 trilogy.

THIS!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Did they fire all of Project Aces or what? The more I think about this demo, the more it seems worse than HAWX.

I have HAWX 2(not sure if 1 was better), and I enjoyed the Assault Horizon demo more than HAWX 2. I never completely got the hang of OFF mode and HAWX 2 just came off to me, as Ubisoft trying to fit in Ace Combat's shoes.

In prior interviews, Project Aces has said CRA can be turned off in the game, I think the demo mission may be the 1st mission in the final production game, but with scripted events so the mission serves primarily as an introduction/tutorial. Can't imagine CRA required for each kill as that would have CRA getting old quick, and I think I got a few kills without using it in the demo.

I HOPE AH has the upgrade system of the PSP games, Joint Assault had an awesome one. I also wish the plane roster was like Joint Assault. That style of play though, might be limited to portables as Ace Combat 3D Cross Rumble for 3DS(I think it's called Legacy), seems like it's in line with Joint Assault, even furthering the Ace Combat 2 homages: you're in Scarface squadron, Edge is back as a wingman, the phoenix symbol is back, rival squadrons like in AC5 are in, and Z.O.E. returns.

With Assault Horizon I'm hoping for a better console and multiplayer experience than 6.

[Ghost Train]

The more I hear about this, the less I want to play this game. If they wanted to have choppers and guys with skull face masks featuring prominently, why not make a FPS based on the AC Universe? Plenty of good story opportunities - the special ops team that assaults stonehendge, more amphibious landings that you can count, trying to make a run on Gracemeria Central Bank with Sgt. McKnight, and assaulting a landing strip with Yellow Jacket... or playing as a rebel during the Eurasian occupation, passing classified info on Yellow squadron to the barkeep's daughter.

[PetarB]

This is very disappointing. I've always liked this series. I'm getting more and more dissillusioned by recently released games. COD Black Ops felt like an on-rails shooter to me.

[Warmaker]

Well, after catching up on news about this title, I guess the air combat genre on the consoles is wide open for someone to dominate now? Since the boys in charge of the Ace Combat series tripped and fell on their swords? I don't really see HAWX doing it.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Well, after catching up on news about this title, I guess the air combat genre on the consoles is wide open for someone to dominate now? Since the boys in charge of the Ace Combat series tripped and fell on their swords? I don't really see HAWX doing it.

I think AH still has HAWX beat, even with CRA/DFM in AH. HAWX 2 felt uninspired.

[mikeszekely]

I think AH still has HAWX beat, even with CRA/DFM in AH. HAWX 2 felt uninspired.

That is to say, HAWX 2 sucked. The first one wasn't too bad, even though it was no Ace Combat, but the second one flat out sucked.

Sad thing is, there really hasn't been much in the way of competition for Ace Combat. Maybe the Air Force Delta series...

[Chronocidal]

Honestly? Ass-off mode in hawx annoys me much less than the closeup view in this game because it is optional. Hawx just sucked in every other way on top of that. At least AC has kept a decent grasp of aircraft physics.. hawx was pure stupid science fiction the way the aircraft flew.

The problem with this demo is that it gives me the impression that they want to use the closeup mode as a way to run scripted mission events. The tutorial mode in the demo specifically mentioned that you'd have to rely on that mode to kill boss aircraft as well, and if they keep doing that, then yes, you will be forced to use it to trigger mission events, in which case, screw them. I do not buy AC games to fly on rails, and having it steer me toward the target while pulling impossible maneuvers was by far the stupidest thing I've ever seen the dev team do on these games.

Plus.. the entire "high accuracy missile" bit.. just... NO.

Also.. did anyone else think that the camera was MUCH too close to your aircraft in the external view? When I used the padlock button to get a fix on a target I couldn't even see around my own aircraft, because it was zoomed in so freaking close.

[aerocombatpilot]

Well, AC had a nice run.

Ace Combat:

1992-2011

RIP

Seriously... bloody freaking hell, I want to slap those developers for ever thinking this was a good idea. If the game is anything like the demo... yeah, I have no intention of paying anything for this game.

Ace Combat: Gimmick Assault embodies pretty much everything I have come to hate about current gen games. It's really sad too... the game is really pretty, and I would have loved it if they hadn't decided to rely on the features they did.

If they don't make that stupid close up view mandatory at at all, I can maybe see it working. But that view is the worst thing since the ass-off mode in hawx. The intro to the demo was terrible, I was trying to figure out why I couldn't steer.. and then I realized it was steering for me. I probably used 150 missiles on one enemy in the demo mission, and no amount of gunfire would ever bring it down unless I used that feature. I mean, I've heard of plot armor before... but gimmick armor? And oh yeah.. I let out a very loud WTF when I decided to see what the "counter maneuver" was, and the plane pulled an automated culbit. Automatic maneuvers in AC? HELL FREAKING NO. If I wanted that, I'd be playing Starfox 64.

If this demo mission isn't at all like the regular game, and they never force you to use that crap to take down anything, yeah, I can probably deal with it. But my hopes are not very high now.

Edit: On another playthrough, I realized that they pretty much require you to use that freaking camera gimmick on ANY higher level target.. yeah. Hope dwindling by the minute.

Oh yeah..and camera splatter.. seriously, WTF??????

NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[BeyondTheGrave]

NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Fixed

I haven't played the Fighter mission yet but from everyone's descriptions it sounds like the camera is just as bad. If its that bad I may cancel my reserve.

Edited September 19, 2011 by BeyondTheGrave

[Chronocidal]

I actually do wonder how many people will cancel their preorders after that demo. While AC fans are a small group, I wonder if the dev team would postpone the game to revise their thinking if enough people cancelled?

[Chewie]

Guess I played a different demo. I enjoyed it.

Then again, I'm a gamer at heart and from time to time, changing the old formula from just updates in graphics is a good thing.

I'll be picking it up once I can.

[reeoyuy]

Copy paste from my post at video games thread:

Trailer for Ace Combat 3D: Cross Rumble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YS454eSw6o

This is amazing.

-Coup d'etat in Erusea, STFS Scarface deployed. Meaning? This is a retelling of AC2!

-Enemy ace team like AC Zero!

-PAK-FA spotted!

-Flares!

I HOPE AH has the upgrade system of the PSP games, Joint Assault had an awesome one. I also wish the plane roster was like Joint Assault. That style of play though, might be limited to portables as Ace Combat 3D Cross Rumble for 3DS(I think it's called Legacy), seems like it's in line with Joint Assault, even furthering the Ace Combat 2 homages: you're in Scarface squadron, Edge is back as a wingman, the phoenix symbol is back, rival squadrons like in AC5 are in, and Z.O.E. returns.

Not just AC2 homage, more like AC2 remake/retelling. I saw Erusean map on the trailer, so it probably took place in strangereal universe again. I could be wrong, or maybe when it come to US they alter the story to be related to AH. I hope they won't pull another AC3 "localization" again

[anime52k8]

Speaking of AC3, THAT is an ace combat game that needs a remake. If Namco wants to freshen up the current franchise, bring in the Sci-fi futuristic elements of that game instead of forcing in new gameplay mechanics that aren't necessary.

The world Needs Electrosphere with modern HD graphics and it's original story intact.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

That is to say, HAWX 2 sucked. The first one wasn't too bad, even though it was no Ace Combat, but the second one flat out sucked.

Sad thing is, there really hasn't been much in the way of competition for Ace Combat. Maybe the Air Force Delta series...

LOL. Air Force Delta doesn't compare man, it only beats Ace Combat in plane roster. Air Force Delta for Dreamcast and the one on Xbox are maybe better than Air Combat, but neither of them beat Ace Combat 2. Most folks only bought Air Force Delta Strike because they already played through Ace Combat 4 and wanted something to play to kill time before Ace Combat 5 came out.

Speaking of AC3, THAT is an ace combat game that needs a remake. If Namco wants to freshen up the current franchise, bring in the Sci-fi futuristic elements of that game instead of forcing in new gameplay mechanics that aren't necessary.

The world Needs Electrosphere with modern HD graphics and it's original story intact.

That would be an awesome game to redo in HD, the localization in the US sucked and we didn't get everything that the Japanese version had. My friends who played the Japanese release liked it. I didn't like the US version, got boring quick.

I have heard that it's easier to redo PS2 and PSP games in HD for PS3 than it is for converting PS1 games to HD. So the Unsung War trilogy is more likely as an HD collection

[Chronocidal]

Guess I played a different demo. I enjoyed it.

Then again, I'm a gamer at heart and from time to time, changing the old formula from just updates in graphics is a good thing.

I'll be picking it up once I can.

The problem is, this is a change in formula that no one asked for. It's a marketing gimmick to attract attention from the fans of blood/gore/splatter, who often would likely have absolutely nothing in common with flight sim fans. In short, they're trying to get more people to play it that wouldn't otherwise give it a second glance.

In my own opinion.. the problem is just that in the past, AC has had a very specific approach to the way air combat works. They tend to exaggerate/alter certain aspects of the way real aircraft work in order to make the game more fun. In the past, this has generally been restricted to things like missile ranges/mechanics, G-limits (as in they don't really exist), and the amounts of ammo you can carry. They've essentially applied WWII-ish dogfight mechanics to the jet age, in that you typically stay within visual range of targets, even though you're using missiles.

One thing AC has not messed with much though has been the way you actually fly the aircraft. While individual aircraft capabilities are obviously not realistic, the way you fly the aircraft generally is. AC6 pushed this a little with the "high-g" maneuever thing, but there actually is a semi-realbasis for that type of maneuver, and it actually does involve simultaneously increasing drag and thrust. Historically in AC, you fly manually, you control the aircraft by the same basic control mechanics as a real one, and if you want to avoid a missile, you're going to have to do it yourself.

That is.. until now.

I'm sorry. Pilots do not have a "dodge missile" button in the cockpit. Nor do they have a button on their throttle that says "do backflip." I don't care how cool anyone thinks it looks, it just doesn't happen. There's a reason you only ever see planes doing those maneuvers in airshows: they're done by stunt pilots in specially configured aircraft. They're not something the average pilot uses on a daily basis. I cannot put into words really how much I HATE automated maneuvers in a game that otherwise treats aircraft as lovingly as AC historically has.

If this were a car game, the difference would be akin to putting a "DRIFT" button in Gran Turismo, and would elicit the same sort of hate from car afficionados. In a game with physics that are refined enough to actually let you do such an advanced technique manually, putting in an "easy" button is a slap in the face to people who actually learn to do it.

Or, you could compare it to putting in a single button command that'll automatically execute any difficult combo in a fighting game. People who know how to do it the "right" way are going to be pissed off, because now it takes no skill to do. In a game that will obviously have a large amount of online competition, this system is going to tick off a lot of people (if it works in multiplayer at all.. frankly, I don't see how it can).

When you dumb down the game mechanics to make it easier to do hard things, you ruin some of the inherent challenge of a game. People tend to hate that. A lot.

Seeing an AC title for the 3DS is a nice thing though, and might be the thing that convinces me to get one. But the fact that I saw the F-22 basically executing Starfox style barrel rolls concerns me greatly that it's going to be the same sort of thing: adding a "dodge missile" button.

I know some people like this sort of thing, and that's fine. But the Aces team is taking a huge risk here by betting they're going to attract more people than they piss off. The flight game niche is small enough already, and adding these features is going to split the fanbase something awful. Unless they somehow manage to drag a bunch of new fans into the game with all the new blood and guts crap, the little group of people who like Ace Combat style games is about to get a whole lot smaller.