jenius Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 So HG is aware the work they do isn't better than fan fiction? Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyPenguins Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) It is a fine line. It's like, legally, the copyright holders do have every right to stop fan fiction, yet some, like Star Trek and Star Wars, actually encourage it. I think its because in the cases of those two franchises, it's pretty clear what's official and what is not. I think HG is a little edgy about fan fiction, because they honestly fear people mistaking it for their product. Case in point: I made a Shadow Chronicles trailer directly after recording some animatics at a convention back in 2005. I got a lot of compliments on it, and it started a bunch of "Look what Darkwater can do but HG can't!" posts on Robotech.com Tommy sent me a pretty condescending email, and after reading it 15 times I was able to understand what he was saying (he can't give a direct answer even when he wants, apparently). He basically said my trailer could get confused for something official, and "don't overestimate the intelligence of some people on the internet." even though there was a disclaimer at the beginning and end of it. He also got mad at me when I posted a fan poster for Shadow Chronicles in RDF-HQ's Fan Works forum, saying it was a "very bad thing" for them. So, basically, in HG's case, they're worried that you, as a fan, won't be able to tell the difference between something that's a fan work and something that's real. They're keeping YOUR best interests at mind. aka jealousy and butthurt? ah I get it now also.....if they want to keep the interest of the fans then put something out there, dammit! This is why fans create their own stuff because HG can't deliver Edited April 11, 2011 by HappyPenguins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 So, basically, in HG's case, they're worried that you, as a fan, won't be able to tell the difference between something that's a fan work and something that's real. They're keeping YOUR best interests at mind. Eh, in all fairness... that's probably a very real and very serious concern from Tommy's perspective. After all, if the Robotech fanbase can't tell the difference between Robotech material created by fans with more nostalgia than sense and the low-quality trash that the franchise is producing on his watch and his employers notice, then they'll quickly run out of reasons to keep him on the payroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisk Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Tommy sent me a pretty condescending email, and after reading it 15 times I was able to understand what he was saying (he can't give a direct answer even when he wants, apparently). He basically said my trailer could get confused for something official, and "don't overestimate the intelligence of some people on the internet." even though there was a disclaimer at the beginning and end of it. He also got mad at me when I posted a fan poster for Shadow Chronicles in RDF-HQ's Fan Works forum, saying it was a "very bad thing" for them. Tommy Yune = arsehole Edited April 12, 2011 by chrisk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaman Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 How is this so if it's just a fan work? Shortest possible answer - for profit or not for profit makes no difference, usage of copyright or trademark is at the pleasure of the copyright or trademark holder. (within the confines of the law, so parody can not legally be stopped for instance) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwater Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Shortest possible answer - for profit or not for profit makes no difference, usage of copyright or trademark is at the pleasure of the copyright or trademark holder. (within the confines of the law, so parody can not legally be stopped for instance) Under the law, if you can prove its sold as a parody which provides a commentary on an existing subject, that's fine. The key is "commentary," which falls under Fair Use. Just recently, there have been a slew of porn movies with titles like "Batman XXX: A Porn Parody" and "This Ain't Star Trek XXX" which cover their ass pretty well (no pun intended) in the titles alone. Most fan fictions don't fall under the category of parody, rather they fall under "derivative," which doesn't provide any commentary, and which HG legally as the ability to put a stop to. So basically, what I'm saying is- if you want to make a fan film, make it a porno And yes, I "know this business" Edited April 12, 2011 by Darkwater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 So basically, what I'm saying is- if you want to make a fan film, make it a porno If those uniforms get any tighter or that Invid's V-neck drops any farther, it might as well be a porno... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondTheGrave Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Shortest possible answer - for profit or not for profit makes no difference, usage of copyright or trademark is at the pleasure of the copyright or trademark holder. (within the confines of the law, so parody can not legally be stopped for instance) Unless your Tommy Weisaw Hmmmm.... Combine the room with robotech. Would that be worse than rtsc or better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen72 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Didn't this picture appear on these forums? http://norobotechnews.blogspot.com/2011/04/this-is-how-da-hg-dispenses-tough-love.html I could've sworn it was here! Anyone remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisk Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Didn't this picture appear on these forums? http://norobotechnews.blogspot.com/2011/04/this-is-how-da-hg-dispenses-tough-love.html I could've sworn it was here! Anyone remember? Yeah, I could've sworn I've seen that image before... Do companies have the ability to close down satire/parody sites like this of they don't like what you're doing? If those uniforms get any tighter or that Invid's V-neck drops any farther, it might as well be a porno... Why do you think they haven't issued a Cease and Desist letter to that live action fan film coming out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Yeah, I could've sworn I've seen that image before... Do companies have the ability to close down satire/parody sites like this of they don't like what you're doing? Why do you think they haven't issued a Cease and Desist letter to that live action fan film coming out? In regards to the live action fan film, I thought about that as well, and if they allow other derivative fan works to go through, especially with the amount of foot traffic that know about it on their websites, wouldn't that provide an instance where people like the UEG would have a basis to fight HG? Seems like if they're going to pick and choose what fan works get to keep on going, they may lose the grounds to force someone else to cease their fan project. I could be totally wrong, but it does seem pretty odd that up till now, HG has been picking and choosing what fan works can keep going and not, at the behest of Tommy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atharun Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Could it be that, if an animated fan work uses Macross designs and does not properly document that they are not affiliated with HG, then that HG could potentially suffer legal repurcussions? I ask because, if I am not mistaken that HG can only uses the Macross design elements in merchandise including games and comics. Therefor if a fan film uses the Robotech name and no disclaimer then perhaps it could be confused with an actual sanctioned production by HG. Also on a side note, if a game is considered merchandise, can an animated intro be created without violating the legal issue? Edited April 12, 2011 by Richardmvela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Could it be that, if an animated fan work uses Macross designs and does not properly document that they are not affiliated with HG, then that HG could potentially suffer legal repurcussions? No, why would you think they would? If it came to that, all Harmony Gold would have to say is "No, it's a fan film, take your complaints up with the fans who made it." and that would be the end of their involvement in the matter. It likely wouldn't even get to that point, for two reasons: the first being that Big West's lawyers aren't stupid people, and would definitely check into it before pursuing any legal action; and the second being that Big West isn't in the habit of pissing on fan projects... that's Harmony Gold's thing. I ask because, if I am not mistaken that HG can only uses the Macross design elements in merchandise including games and comics. Therefor f a fan film uses the Robotech name and no disclaimer then perhaps it could be confused with an actual sanctioned production by HG. Even if the quality of Harmony Gold's production deteriorates to the point where a fan-made animated project can be mistaken for official material by someone with a working brain, a fan-film likely wouldn't bear fairly important touches like Harmony Gold's logo, and/or be mentioned/advertised on robotech.com's news section the way an official product would. Only a blithering idiot would immediately leap to filing a lawsuit without first checking to make sure their complaint is a valid one, and the lawyers working for Big West are demonstrably pretty sharp people. Also, as I've already said, it's infinitely more likely that the creators of a Robotech fan-film would be receiving threats from Harmony Gold than anyone from the Macross franchise. Also on a side note, if a game is considered merchandise, can an animated intro be created without violating the legal issue? Yes, because the animated intro to the game would be part of the game. Edited April 12, 2011 by Seto Kaiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atharun Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Hey, I'm just trying to find justification for the madness of selectively shutting down various fan works while endorsing others. The game intro thing though seems like a legal loop hole in a way to me, but then again I am sure a reasonable company would have all their bases covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Hey, I'm just trying to find justification for the madness of selectively shutting down various fan works while endorsing others. Easy, their motivations are something other than a fear of improbable copyright-motivated retribution. If it really was a fear of having Macross's creators take them to court, they would be putting the kibosh on ALL fan-film projects. As Darkwater illustrated, there are plenty of potential reasons for them to do so, including the hilarious-as-hell fear that people might mistake the fan-project for official Harmony Gold product and/or a failure to kowtow to Harmony Gold's specific and unreasonable demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legioss Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Tommy sent me a pretty condescending email, and after reading it 15 times I was able to understand what he was saying (he can't give a direct answer even when he wants, apparently). He basically said my trailer could get confused for something official, and "don't overestimate the intelligence of some people on the internet." even though there was a disclaimer at the beginning and end of it. Harmony Gold and their cult, always the false dilemma. If you're not underestimating their intelligence, you're overestimating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwater Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 if they allow other derivative fan works to go through, especially with the amount of foot traffic that know about it on their websites, wouldn't that provide an instance where people like the UEG would have a basis to fight HG? Seems like if they're going to pick and choose what fan works get to keep on going, they may lose the grounds to force someone else to cease their fan project. The truth of the matter is that as the copyright holders, they CAN pick and choose which derivative works they can go after. There would be no legal claim to say "you shut down my fan project, but not theirs!" It might make them look like asses, but hey, that's their legal right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zor Primus Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 In regards to the live action fan film, I thought about that as well, and if they allow other derivative fan works to go through, especially with the amount of foot traffic that know about it on their websites, wouldn't that provide an instance where people like the UEG would have a basis to fight HG? Seems like if they're going to pick and choose what fan works get to keep on going, they may lose the grounds to force someone else to cease their fan project. I could be totally wrong, but it does seem pretty odd that up till now, HG has been picking and choosing what fan works can keep going and not, at the behest of Tommy. Did they put a C&D on the peeps doing that project in Argentina? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehPW Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 i would have done it anyway, just tell the judge 'Look, your honor. i was doing for school work, experiance, because i like it, etc. and i am not concerned what HG wants, desires, etc. Im not making money of it in sales. i might make some $ if the project lands me a job to do actual copy writed work, new or old but its still nothing more than fanfics. So stop bothering the little guy before i talk to NPR, FOX and maybe CNN, and after letting the world know you're trying to take down the little guy instead of, oh, i dunno.... OFFERING ME A JOB since maybe my work is BETTER than the sh*t your other company associates could do? hmm? no comment? Ok, im outta here. CyA!' %$#@ HG!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 i would have done it anyway, just tell the judge 'Look, your honor. i was doing for school work, experiance, because i like it, etc. and i am not concerned what HG wants, desires, etc. Im not making money of it in sales. i might make some $ if the project lands me a job to do actual copy writed work, new or old but its still nothing more than fanfics. So stop bothering the little guy before i talk to NPR, FOX and maybe CNN, and after letting the world know you're trying to take down the little guy instead of, oh, i dunno.... OFFERING ME A JOB since maybe my work is BETTER than the sh*t your other company associates could do? hmm? no comment? Ok, im outta here. CyA!' %$#@ HG!! The only reason why I wouldn't see them actually coming after you in a case like that, is the idea that even though they have their own legal team, their lawyers may require extra money in their paycheck for having to go to court. Having to pay for them to go to court, just to tell a fan that he can't do fanfic work may not be worth it. It's not like they'd actually be able to sue you for much, if anything more than a "you can't put that out". Even still, would they really want to have that put in any public notice? If I were in that same position, and I went to court, I'd be telling everyone, simply out of principal, and to let people know the pettiness of a larger company. Is all that work worth that for HG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwater Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 The only reason why I wouldn't see them actually coming after you in a case like that, is the idea that even though they have their own legal team, their lawyers may require extra money in their paycheck for having to go to court. Having to pay for them to go to court, just to tell a fan that he can't do fanfic work may not be worth it. It's not like they'd actually be able to sue you for much, if anything more than a "you can't put that out". Even still, would they really want to have that put in any public notice? If I were in that same position, and I went to court, I'd be telling everyone, simply out of principal, and to let people know the pettiness of a larger company. Is all that work worth that for HG? Yeah, they'd probably never go to court, but they probably have enough lawyers on staff to send letters to YouTube, Vimeo, and anywhere else you could post it. If you hosted it yourself, they'd probably send a letter to your server host. If you had your own server, they'd probably be SOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 The whole reason HG thinks they can make a Macross Saga movie is because enough of the Macross Saga plot is generic. Just don't call your fanfic/fanpic ROBOTECH or MACROSS and instead call it something else (heck, thinly veil it). You can still have big mechs that transform fighting big invading aliens. You know BigWest isn't going to come after you so feel free to leave the names unique to Macross characters in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondTheGrave Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Didn't this picture appear on these forums? http://norobotechnews.blogspot.com/2011/04/this-is-how-da-hg-dispenses-tough-love.html I could've sworn it was here! Anyone remember? Why do McKeever's eyes look odd. Like he has no pupils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltane70 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Why do McKeever's eyes look odd. Like he has no pupils. It's because he has no soul, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_wong00 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) It's because he has no soul, obviously. Are you sure it wasn't a "Protoculture upgrade"? Edit: Just fixed some typos. Edited April 15, 2011 by j_wong00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Are you sure it wasn'a a "Protoculture upgrade"? LOL, Mckeever thinks he's Dr. Lang, the most useless overblown one shot background character ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zor Primus Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 LOL, Mckeever thinks he's Dr. Lang, the most useless overblown one shot background character ever! So who would be Lazlo Zand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 So who would be Lazlo Zand? Sounds like a soccer player from either Spain or France. I bet he's gotta mean futbol kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyPenguins Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Why do McKeever's eyes look odd. Like he has no pupils. cause that's his DERP face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 The Greatest Robotech Sequel...EVAR!!! Yes, you heard that right the Gary Gnu Robotech news site has the latest and greatest, folks. I'm definitely finding this site to be absolutely hilarious till now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smegalot Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Pretty funny site. I wonder if they have tried to shut hime down. I love the haven't changed the template in 10 years, and the All out of Stock items bit. I wonder if HG have tried to stop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radd Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Also on a side note, if a game is considered merchandise, can an animated intro be created without violating the legal issue? This has always bothered me. That videogames and comic books are considered "merchandise" and not in the same category as films and television series is an indication of an extremely broken legal system regarding intellectual property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaman Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 This has always bothered me. That videogames and comic books are considered "merchandise" and not in the same category as films and television series is an indication of an extremely broken legal system regarding intellectual property. No - in this case it simply indicates that BW (or whoever it was in Japan) signed a very BAD deal with HG back in the day. Does any company in Japan sign open-ended deals like that any longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Does any company in Japan sign open-ended deals like that any longer? It would depend on the kind of agreement. Most wouldn't... But then again, I don't think many try to be in the situation that BW was in. BW made its mistake by not having enough cash/backing/promotional opportunities for the project. It was either scrap the entire project when so much time/effort/money was already done or have someone else help finance it. They choose the latter and here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atharun Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 It would depend on the kind of agreement. Most wouldn't... But then again, I don't think many try to be in the situation that BW was in. BW made its mistake by not having enough cash/backing/promotional opportunities for the project. It was either scrap the entire project when so much time/effort/money was already done or have someone else help finance it. They choose the latter and here we are. I think that is one of the things that people on both sides of the respective fandoms forget, that the situations surrounding both franchises are children of circumstance (Certain management issues not withstanding). In the case of BW, the financial self sufficiency wasn't there for them at the time thus leading to the various deals that we know of now. With HG, the circumstances of TV broadcasting stipulations led to the use of the three series. People often blame Macek for what he did but in many ways he was a very big anime fan. If I am not mistaken the original goal was a straight forward dub with only name changes. Also he helped save many of the original cells to Akira that are now in a museum (I believe in Ohio, but not sure). In the end, it seems various circumstances from the 80's have had the long term effect that we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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