HG and Robotech Debates

[Einherjar]

Once again, thanks MEMO.

Okay, so they've been taking pointers from the mechanical designers of Southern Cross... leaving the pilot exposed to everything from shrapnel to small arms fire.

At least in Southern Cross the mecha exposed the pilot in only one form. This is just absolutely dangerous. It didn't work when they did it in the Matrix or Avatar, it definitely won't work here.

Also, I hope that big gun above the pilot seat acts like a mortar or something. I would not be comfortable using it to take out a target directly in front of me.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

At least in Southern Cross the mecha exposed the pilot in only one form. This is just absolutely dangerous. It didn't work when they did it in the Matrix or Avatar, it definitely won't work here.

Um... actually, the Spartas's operator is exposed in two of the tank's three transformation modes. In the normal tank mode ("Sniping Clapper"), the operator is exposed from the chest up on all sides, and in "walking cannon" mode, the operator is exposed from the chest up on all sides, and has only the bicycle-grip-sized control yoke between him and the enemy at the front of the vehicle. Only in soldier ("Battle sniper") mode is the operator actually protected from such hazards as shrapnel and snipers.

On balance, the VM-9L Silverback isn't any less idiotic in terms of operator safety, it just has one less mode to muck about in. Fortunately, Tommy half-assed it like he did with the one appearance of the VF-X-4, and didn't even bother trying to depict it transforming.

Also, I hope that big gun above the pilot seat acts like a mortar or something. I would not be comfortable using it to take out a target directly in front of me.

Um... well... no. According to the Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles RPG, which is the ONLY source of information on the buggering thing that I'm aware of, that's a twin-linked double-barreled railgun of the same general type as the one on the "Super Cyclone".

[Einherjar]

Um... well... no. According to the Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles RPG, which is the ONLY source of information on the buggering thing that I'm aware of, that's a twin-linked double-barreled railgun of the same general type as the one on the "Super Cyclone".

So, is a railgun safe to use so close to a glass or plastic equivalent reinforced canopy?

[Gubaba]

So, is a railgun safe to use so close to a glass or plastic equivalent reinforced canopy?

[Doug Henning Voice]ANYTHING'S possible in the world of PROTOCULTURE[/Henning]

[Ghost Train]

[Doug Henning Voice]ANYTHING'S possible in the world of PROTOCULTURE[/Henning]

Please use proper XML notation.

<Doug Henning Voice></Doug Henning Voice>

Thank you.

[Gubaba]

Please use proper XML notation.

<Doug Henning Voice></Doug Henning Voice>

Thank you.

Sorry, I always screw up on that...

[Seto Kaiba]

So, is a railgun safe to use so close to a glass or plastic equivalent reinforced canopy?

No idea... one would imagine the answer would be "no" in practical terms, but this is science fiction we're talking about after all. It does appear that the creative team at Harmony Gold might've been taking design tips from Rob Liefeld, since the gun itself has two barrels for some utterly arbitrary reason, no discernible ammunition storage or feed system, and is so huge it becomes impossible to believe that it could be mounted on a bike without tipping it over. Of course, they also seem to have forgotten little things like Newtonian physics, since the 70kJ railgun on the Super Cyclone has no recoil to speak of.

[UN_MARINE]

No idea... one would imagine the answer would be "no" in practical terms, but this is science fiction we're talking about after all. It does appear that the creative team at Harmony Gold might've been taking design tips from Rob Liefeld, since the gun itself has two barrels for some utterly arbitrary reason, no discernible ammunition storage or feed system, and is so huge it becomes impossible to believe that it could be mounted on a bike without tipping it over. Of course, they also seem to have forgotten little things like Newtonian physics, since the 70kJ railgun on the Super Cyclone has no recoil to speak of.

More specifically, this is hack comic book industry science fiction.

These people have never been able to make logical, feasible or practical mechanical anything. Hardly any of them do the research, they just draw something that "looks mechanical". I've seen so many renditions of guns w/ eleventy gun barrels, guns w/o sights, w/ rear sights, but no front sight, magazines that go nowhere, limb joints w/ eleventy different joint designs fighting for the same space... the list goes on.

The biggest offender is when somebody writes down numbers for the mech/weapon & it looks like this:

8 meter tall bi-pedal mech w/ 6-barrel 100mm gatling gun(2000 rds).

Can anybody tell what's wrong w/ these numbers?

While it's fun to make fun of Tommy's copy-pasta transformy jeep, unfortunately it's just a statistic.

As well as Tommy being an uncreative hack.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Um... well... no. According to the Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles RPG, which is the ONLY source of information on the buggering thing that I'm aware of, that's a twin-linked double-barreled railgun of the same general type as the one on the "Super Cyclone".

So... The pilot has to choose between railgun and pea shooter?

The biggest offender is when somebody writes down numbers for the mech/weapon & it looks like this:

8 meter tall bi-pedal mech w/ 6-barrel 100mm gatling gun(2000 rds).

Can anybody tell what's wrong w/ these numbers?

That gun is waayyy to big for a 8 meter tall mech to carry or mount. Without possibly destroying itself upon firing or even moving.

Edited March 3, 2010 by BeyondTheGrave

[Funkenstein]

You guys obviously never seen the Ontos.

http://www.hlj.com/product/ACD13218

[Seto Kaiba]

More specifically, this is hack comic book industry science fiction.

Like I said... "taking design tips from Rob Liefeld".

The biggest offender is when somebody writes down numbers for the mech/weapon & it looks like this:

8 meter tall bi-pedal mech w/ 6-barrel 100mm gatling gun(2000 rds).

Can anybody tell what's wrong w/ these numbers?

's pretty much the letter of things with every Robotech RPG. I know a fair few of the guys from Palladium, and they aren't bad people... they just care more about game balance than they do accurately representing the capabilities of the mecha or making things feasible... so you end up with things like the gunpods in their Macross II game, where guns only a few meters long have invisible 10,000 or 20,000 round magazines and a half dozen spares stored in some magical invisible compartment on the airframe.

While it's fun to make fun of Tommy's copy-pasta transformy jeep, unfortunately it's just a statistic.

As well as Tommy being an uncreative hack.

While nobody will deny Tommy is an uncreative hack, it might be more accurate to call the VM-9 Silverback a lack of statistics... he didn't bother coming up with anything for it himself, and it's glossed over in the official artbooks.

So... The pilot has to choose between railgun and pea shooter?

Well in all fairness, I don't think there's much difference in effect between the two... after all, if they're anything like the silly-sounding armaments on the Super Cyclone, they were probably supplied by Fisher-Price.

That gun is waayyy to big for a 8 meter tall mech to carry or mount. Without possibly destroying itself upon firing or even moving.

Not just that, but 2,000 100mm rounds are going to take up a drum every bit as big as the mecha itself...

You guys obviously never seen the Ontos.

http://www.hlj.com/product/ACD13218

Ah, a real-world example of More Dakka in action!

Edited March 3, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[anime52k8]

You guys obviously never seen the Ontos.

http://www.hlj.com/product/ACD13218

phhh... russia=superior.

as for 2 barrels for no logical reason

WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW!!!

[UN_MARINE]

WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW!!!

Datz good Dakka!

Except these things actually work, only shoot a single round/missile per barrel & they're mounted on portable roads.

Oh well... the laws of physics are too difficult to follow anyway.

[terry the lone wolf]

Today marks Robotech's 25th anniversary. Cheers!

[Save]

Today marks Robotech's 25th anniversary. Cheers!

HIP HIP.........

On a side note Codename Robotech actually aired on Friday March 1st in Southern California, then the series started the following Monday March 4th 1985.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Save

[Gubaba]

HIP HIP.........

On a side note Codename Robotech actually aired on Friday March 1st in Southern California, then the series started the following Monday March 4th 1985.

Yep. Hence this post of mine a couple of pages back:

Okay...twenty-five years ago today, the wee laddie I used to be sat down with his friend to watch something called "Codename: Robotech." I was rather unimpressed at first, until they showed a Valkyrie, and I suddenly exclaimed, "No way! This is Macross!!"

My friend said, "What's that?" Thus beginning a pattern that would recycle itself endlessly throughout various permutations over the next quarter-century.

And so, in honor of the occasion, I'm gonna watch DYRL. And maybe follow it up with Mospeada: Love Live Alive.

HIP HIP.........

On a side note Codename Robotech actually aired on Friday March 1st in Southern California, then the series started the following Monday March 4th 1985.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Today marks Robotech's 25th anniversary. Cheers!

So 25 years ago a hack job series came out.

[Einherjar]

Happy 10 year anniversary Playstation 2.

http://kotaku.com/5484669/my-10-years-with-the-playstation-2

...

Oh, and Robotech. Guess people are going to be celebrating like people did a year or two ago for something else.

[Gubaba]

Happy 10 year anniversary Playstation 2.

http://kotaku.com/5484669/my-10-years-with-the-playstation-2

...

Oh, and Robotech. Guess people are going to be celebrating like people did a year or two ago for something else.

ROBOTECH: 25 years of being a gateway drug to Macross!

[Seto Kaiba]

Today marks Robotech's 25th anniversary. Cheers!

Honestly, is 25 years of mediocrity, ineptitude, dishonesty, and failure really the sort of thing the fans should celebrate?

What today really marks is 25 years of Harmony Gold trying unsuccessfully to ride Macross's coattails all the way to fame and success. In 25 years, what have they really accomplished? One lackluster direct-to-DVD movie made entirely of characters and set pieces stolen from a failed sequel attempt, a handful of low-quality toys and other goods, and a slew of embarrassingly bad comic books that didn't sell. The only actual creative work the so-called "creative team" at Harmony Gold USA has done these past 25 years is coming up with new lies to tell their fans to exaggerate the popularity of their franchise, its influence on the anime industry, and their role in its creation.

So yes... what they've done is laudable for its consistency, if nothing else.

Here's to Robotech... 25 years of fraud, deception, and unfair business practices!

Edited March 4, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Einherjar]

I'll be honest, I was born last week 25 years ago. I was probably chillin' in my crib when the show came on. Unfortunately, I only got to experience the fallout from the show in the years later.

Hmm, if you're being technical about the whole thing, that would make me a real 85er.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Einherjar

[Gubaba]

I'll be honest, I was born last week 25 years ago. I was probably chillin' in my crib when the show came on. Unfortunately, I only got to experience the fallout from the show in the years later.

Well, then at least you were spared the agony of having to tell your friends that, yes, Robotech came from Japan, and no, the stories were not originally connected. I got in so many arguments about that...

I had one friend who stopped speaking to me in middle school because I told him (as we watched the final episode of New Generation together) that "Admiral Hunter" wouldn't be showing up. He called me a liar during the commercial breaks, and as it ended, he acted like it was my fault that he didn't appear.

(God, I'm glad I'm not twelve anymore...)

Edited March 4, 2010 by Gubaba

[Jasonc]

Can't say I saw the Codename: Robotech thing. Like Gubaba, when I did see Robotech for the first time in 85, I had already known about Macross for sometime, so seeing it was already anticipated. I was kinda shocked when I did see SC and Mospeada after Macross Saga, cause it was pretty apparent that they didn't necessarily fit. Nevertheless, I was so happy that it was over here and in English. Plus, the introduction to two other series that I didn't know about was a big plus.

When I was finally able to watch these 3 shows in their original form, it was a breath of fresh air, and really confirmed my interest in the original anime as it was intended. While 25 years is a good amount of time, I have this feeling that people are gonna take the 25 years as meaning that it validates Robotech moreso than before. Truth is obvious, just cause something is 25 years old, doesn't mean it makes it valid today, or mean that it necessarily needs to be revived.

[Gubaba]

Can't say I saw the Codename: Robotech thing.

It was on KCOP Channel 13. I saw it with one of my friends, but I had quite number of people after the fact assure me that it never existed.

Like Gubaba, when I did see Robotech for the first time in 85, I had already known about Macross for sometime, so seeing it was already anticipated.

To be honest, I didn't know MUCH about Macross. I'd seen an ad in Starlog Magazine for the HG-Produced Macross VHS tape (I didn't end up seeing the video itself until later) and there had been an article in the Parada Magazine supplement that came with the LA Times that talked about Japanese robot toys and how they generally came from cartoons. They focused on Macross a bit, talking mostly about the Bandai 1/55 toy, but also giving a (very) brief run-down of the story (which wasn't completely accurate). So, seeing the SDF-1 (which had been featured in the ad in Starlog) and the VF-1 made me put two and two together and I realized it was Macross.

While 25 years is a good amount of time, I have this feeling that people are gonna take the 25 years as meaning that it validates Robotech moreso than before. Truth is obvious, just cause something is 25 years old, doesn't mean it makes it valid today, or mean that it necessarily needs to be revived.

You mean you're not looking forward to the Partridge Family 40th Anniversary coming up this September 25...?

[Jasonc]

To be honest, I didn't know MUCH about Macross. I'd seen an ad in Starlog Magazine for the HG-Produced Macross VHS tape (I didn't end up seeing the video itself until later) and there had been an article in the Parada Magazine supplement that came with the LA Times that talked about Japanese robot toys and how they generally came from cartoons. They focused on Macross a bit, talking mostly about the Bandai 1/55 toy, but also giving a (very) brief run-down of the story (which wasn't completely accurate). So, seeing the SDF-1 (which had been featured in the ad in Starlog) and the VF-1 made me put two and two together and I realized it was Macross.

I learned of Macross from a few friends who are Japanese, and had parents that often visited Japan. When going to their houses, they had all kinds of books with Macross characters, the Valkyries, and even some toys I believe. So they would tell me the story, and it sounded so awesome. When Robotech aired, it was like "OK this sounds like what my friend said, but it's not the same names. That's how I kinda figured it out, at 10yrs old.

You mean you're not looking forward to the Partridge Family 40th Anniversary coming up this September 25...?

Um, no, not really, didn't even know there was one. Reunion shows and revival shows are more for the nostalgic, and I'm not much on nostalgia. Has it's place, but just a place, not a lifestyle, so unlike a lot of Robotech fans, the first 85 was good enough. I don't need to try to relive some hype that will not come back.

[Gubaba]

Um, no, not really, didn't even know there was one. Reunion shows and revival shows are more for the nostalgic, and I'm not much on nostalgia. Has it's place, but just a place, not a lifestyle, so unlike a lot of Robotech fans, the first 85 was good enough. I don't need to try to relive some hype that will not come back.

Oh, I don't think there's a reunion show coming up (or any kind of celebration at all...which makes it kinda like Robotech, no?). I just picked something silly that has an anniversary coming up.

SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE is probably gonna have some kind of party or marathon or something for it, though. I'm glad I don't know that person.

[MastaEgg]

Well, then at least you were spared the agony of having to tell your friends that, yes, Robotech came from Japan, and no, the stories were not originally connected. I got in so many arguments about that...

I had one friend who stopped speaking to me in middle school because I told him (as we watched the final episode of New Generation together) that "Admiral Hunter" wouldn't be showing up. He called me a liar during the commercial breaks, and as it ended, he acted like it was my fault that he didn't appear.

(God, I'm glad I'm not twelve anymore...)

I'm suprised HG didn't just shove a clip of some random guy proclaiming he was Hunter in the last episode (like they did in SC).

[UN_MARINE]

I'm suprised HG didn't just shove a clip of some random guy proclaiming he was Hunter in the last episode (like they did in SC).

I don't understand this "Rick Hunter" thing. Why in the blue blazes are RT fans so hung up on the guy?

(in Robotech) He never did anything particularly noteworthy, he was kind of a dumb whiny kid & his girlfriend (Lisa) was as dull as a brick.

Did being mentioned as "Admiral" Rick hunter suddenly make him special? I don't get it.

[Gubaba]

I don't understand this "Rick Hunter" thing. Why in the blue blazes are RT fans so hung up on the guy?

(in Robotech) He never did anything particularly noteworthy, he was kind of a dumb whiny kid & his girlfriend (Lisa) was as dull as a brick.

Did being mentioned as "Admiral" Rick hunter suddenly make him special? I don't get it.

I think I get it...Macross is most people's favorite section of Robotech, right? It was a couple of weeks into the Masters Saga before I discovered that Southern Cross was a completely separate series...before that, I kept waiting for some of the old characters to show up. I can only imagine that if I hadn't found out the truth so quickly, it would've felt like a deliberate tease on HG's part. Especially since the New Generation characters have no explicit ties to any of the previous characters. And Rick Hunter's name starts getting tossed around in New Generation as though they're building up to his triumphant return...and then it's, "Well, he was SUPPOSED to show up, but uh, for reason he's not here."

That's the kind of bait and switch that can stick with kids for a long, long time...

[eugimon]

That's the kind of bait and switch that can stick with kids for a long, long time...

And the formula was so successful they did it again, only this time they called it "Lost"

[BeyondTheGrave]

I thought it was reality tv?

[chrisk]

SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE is probably gonna have some kind of party or marathon or something for it, though. I'm glad I don't know that person.

I'm pretty sure these people will throw in the failed Sentinels feature in their special edition ADV Robotech DVD set, the Robotech 3000 trailer in their Shadow Chronicles blu-ray, and lots and lots of booze drugs they took in the 80's. Sounds like a party!!!

[Einherjar]

That's the kind of bait and switch that can stick with kids for a long, long time...

Imagine, give or take 85 weeks from now, Rick Hunter and the entire franchise will be stuck in the same position they've been for the last 3-25 years. This IS End of the Circle!

[taksraven]

I will celebrate the 25th anniversary of RT with a few observations. They are mostly obvious, but who cares.

If it wasn't for Rt I would not have discovered Macross as soon as I did. I would have discovered it with the release of Macross Plus and "Clash of the Bionoids" in the mid 1990's. Would these shows have had the same impact on me by that stage, who knows.

Taksraven

[Jasonc]

I'll be celebrating Robotech as it originally was, as in the 85 episodes. To me, it has merits as far as opening up my knowledge to 3 series I couldn't originally get back then. For that, and the good quality work the VAs did, I'm grateful. Celebrating Robotech for its new incarnation and what I wishes to be in the future??? Pass

I'm gonna celebrate tonight by playing poker with some guys from Macrossworld, and seeing some of the cool toys that I just got, like the VF-27 Lucifer.