peter Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I'm not setting up this thread to trash other Macross series, but I think there's something seriously wrong with me and I'm wondering what it is and if I'm alone on this. I watched Robocrap when I was a kid (I was probably 9 or 10 when it came out back in 1984), hated the voices, hated some of the story concepts, but loved the action. I had an inkling that Robocrap the Macross Saga was based on a series called Macross, but that's about it. Macross II came out and I thought it was ok.......I had no idea why the SDF-1 looked different. Some time after that, I discovered DYRL and loved it.....oh, that's why the SDF-1 looks different. It also explained the Strike Packs I found on some Japanese model kits of Macross. I was now on a crusade to find out all I could about the original story. Macross Plus came out, watched it, liked it. When the Animeigo DVD series came out for the original series, I blew $400 and got it. So, here I am, 34 years old in 2009 and I find myself hating Macross 7, not really liking Macross Zero all that much, though it was cool to see the new animation styles/techniques and of course, Fokker. I have to admit, I'm not really taking to Macross Frontier either. The animation, and the fight scenes are cool, but the mech designs don't sit right for me, when everyone else seems to love them. When I think about it, I'm not even sure if I like the designs from Mac Plus. When I'm on the forums here, I find myself drawn to topics (especially toys and models) only related to SDF Macross and DYRL, completely ignoring MF toys/models. What's wrong with me? It seems like all the new stuff seems to be working for everyone else except for me. Is it because I'm just too old for this stuff? If I am, why do I cling on to SDF and DYRL? The same thing happened with Transformers. Everyone I talked to loved the new Transformers.....I hate Michael Bay's new Transformers and I find myself searching for images of G1 figures and toys. There are others my age that seem to like the new stuff, so I don't think age is an issue here...... I love the fact that there's still new Macross products coming out, Yamato and Hasegawa have been doing a great job with that. When Hasegawa released pics of the 1/48 scale YF-19, I was mildly amused. I'd probably buy one, but it was one of those things that didn't excite me all that much. When I saw the test model for their 1/48 VF-1, I $hit myself. Maybe I'm just getting really closed-minded. I really tried to like Macross Zero and Macross F, but I don't find myself wanting to buy the toys and models.......maybe it's a good thing....for my wallet. Am I alone or am I just old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDClip Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I dont think theres anything wrong with just liking the original. As long as you watch the sequels with an open mind and no expecting it to just be a rehash of the original, fell free to dislike them. I will say, though, that Mac7 and Mac0 are more aquired tastes. When i first saw Mac0 i wasn't into the story and when i first watched Mac7 i HATED it. However, as i rewatched them, i kinda changed my expectations and tried to see them differently than just a 'sequel' and now i can say that i like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 It seems like all the new stuff seems to be working for everyone else except for me. Are you reading the same Macross World Forums that I am...? Sometimes I think I'm alone for liking pretty much everything Macross... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 Haha, maybe I'm just waiting for something that will never come. The last time I got extremely excited about a new animation related to Macross was when I saw the intro for a Macross game for Sega Saturn. I wanted to buy a Sega Saturn and the game, just so I could watch that bit of animation. I know there will probably never be any new animation based on SDF Macross/DYRL era stuff, but I think deep down, I'm still holding my breath.......maybe if I just let it die, I can open my mind to the likes of Mac 7 and Mac F? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 The only Macross I hate is Macross 7 Trash because Mikimoto forgot how to tell a story and just drew pinups for like five out of seven volumes. Also you need to remember all anime is disposable entertainment. It does not have to endure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 You are most likely: a) older, wiser and more experienced (the same old shlock doesn't wind your clock anymore (re: Transformers live action movie). I'm in the same boat) b) more mature (the juvenile, coming of age, breast fetish, et al aspects of the latest series belong to a phase that you've already grown out of) c) stressed/troubled/insert appropriate word here about your life, and yearn for the simpler days of childhood. Therefore: welcome to adulthood! Nevertheless, I dig aspects of 7, 0 and F. But I don't like them in their entirety. I think the last Macross series that I liked all aspects of was Plus. But I overwatched it, and don't like it anymore. So yeah, time to make your own Macross series? (I'd plug the Macross RPG site that I play at and the transforming fighter craft manga that I'm penning, but as this is your thread...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondTheGrave Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Idk. At least your giving them a try unlike others who go on auto pilot and say they're garbage. It maybe that you hold the original concept more dear than the newer series. Personally I like Macross Plus. Mainly due to the dogfights and animation. Your not alone on M7 I still haven't finished the remainder of the series. I had to force myself to watch it and I'll probably have to force myself to watch the rest of it. Anyway there is nothing wrong with you. There are people who refuse to accept any of the newer designs as a successor to the VF-1. Addendum: There may be an aspect/quality of the characters in SDFM and DYRL that appeal more to you. Edited October 9, 2009 by BeyondTheGrave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Idk. At least your giving them a try unlike others who go on auto pilot and say they're garbage. It maybe that you hold the original concept more dear than the newer series. Personally I like Macross Plus. Mainly due to the dogfights and animation. Your not alone on M7 I still haven't finished the remainder of the series. I had to force myself to watch it and I'll probably have to force myself to watch the rest of it. Anyway there is nothing wrong with you. There are people who refuse to accept any of the newer designs as a successor to the VF-1. Addendum: There may be an aspect/quality of the characters in SDFM and DYRL that appeal more to you. That's me....I'm a sucker for the VF-1. And as far as the original characters go, I love them too. I have this hope (that will never materialize) that the original series can be cleaned up a bit, or redone altogether, with modern animation techniques, but original character and mech designs (and original soundtrack/voices). I went back and watched the original series, and it really is dated. Some of the animation scenes look really cheap, the way they had to recycle old footage because of a limited budget. Edited October 9, 2009 by peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Focker Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Welcome 2 the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Are you reading the same Macross World Forums that I am...? Sometimes I think I'm alone for liking pretty much everything Macross... You are not alone, I like everything I've seen. Some parts of M7 are indeed stupid but the show is fun and the music rocks so it is good enough for me. There is a certain fondness in SDFM and DYRL than make me like them in ways I could never like M7 or Frontier. All of them I like in their own ways. Also being an engineering student it is all about the valks for me. The VF-1 always has a special place but I like a lot of the other types as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMax Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I have somewhat similar sentiments. I am waaaay more excited over SDF:M and DYRL? stuff over the other newer series. I like Mac Plus, Mac Frontier and Macross 7(just slightly) over most of the other non-macross anime that I have watched, but nothing can excite me like the original Macross series and the VF-1 can. Sim[ilarly, I'm a sucker for all things VF-1. I have bought LOADS of VF-1s (in 1/60 V1, 1/48 and 1/60 V2) and still not sick of them, but I have only 1 each (if i buy them) of the other mecha from the later series. in fact, I was willing to wait a long time to get them and bought them at a good discount later on! lol~! I should dod that for the VF-1s as well, but I just can't. I need to get them as soon as they are released! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hey like or dislike whatever suits your fancy, just don't turn this into a discussion on what's "wrong" with other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Trooper Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Honestly peter, that's also where I'm at too. I'm 36, so I grew up in the exact same era that you did...and the only two Macross series I can really say I like is SDFM and DYRL. And I can pretty much cite the exact same reasons you listed. Macross Plus was probably the only "newer" Macross offering I halfway liked. Everything else is pretty much what sketchley said: juvenile breast-fetish, coming-of-age crap that so much of modern anime is geared toward... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D' only Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I watched robo during when i was really really young and i don't even understand the the dialog and the story (kids ), all i remember is the valk and Minmay. When i got older, i got a copy of SDF Macross and started to understand the whole story, and deeply fall in love with Misa . SDF Macross is the only series i watched for a long long time until the internet age, then i got a copy of DYRL, and Plus. It's like falling in love all over again. Love everything about DYRL, and every elemet of Plus. But when i got a copy of 7, i just dragging myself to finish it, that was painful. Luckily during that time, i was watching zero as well, it's all about Roy and VF-0! I like MF but not absolutely crazy about it. Sometimes i found myself watchinng various episode of SDFM, DYRL, and Plus and never got tired of it. So i think you're not alone, i'm still very in love with the original characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I'd call it adulthood with a touch of nostalgia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Train Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 For me it is cyclical. On some days I just go, "lol transforming airplanes gtfo" and other times I just need to get a Macross fix and rewatch Zero, or Plus which are short enough for the fixed duration of said fix. On other days I think Family Guy is the best animated piece ever made. Oh, and it's funny the sheer number of times poor ol M7 is mentioned in this thread . (Source of problem for many... maybe?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannon_fodder674 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I have this hope (that will never materialize) that the original series can be cleaned up a bit, or redone altogether, with modern animation techniques, but original character and mech designs (and original soundtrack/voices). hi. i'm all for old school goodness too. but sadly this is the only consolation i can get from studio nue and big west: http://macross.jp/pc/index.html watch the animations from the squares in the background. a remake of scenes from the original tv macross for pachinko game. a FREAKING PACHINKO GAME!! DON"T THEY FRAKKING DESERVE SOMETHING BETTER THAT A FRAKKING PACHINKO GAME???!!!! *sigh i feel your sorrow man. gone are the days. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 hi. i'm all for old school goodness too. but sadly this is the only consolation i can get from studio nue and big west: http://macross.jp/pc/index.html watch the animations from the squares in the background. a remake of scenes from the original tv macross for pachinko game. a FREAKING PACHINKO GAME!! DON"T THEY FRAKKING DESERVE SOMETHING BETTER THAT A FRAKKING PACHINKO GAME???!!!! *sigh i feel your sorrow man. gone are the days. . . Actually it seems the Pachinko market is a rather big deal in Japan as I have learned, so this is considered to be quite the honor for the franchise. I just take is as a win that we get to see these animations at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vepariga Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I'd call it adulthood with a touch of nostalgia. thats what i'd call it too,its just nostalgia and a purist of the original story,nothing wrong with that at all. I myself,love everything macross,altho it did take me alil while for me to get into frontier,mainly becuase of alto,but i like it mainly for the battles and klan/micheal. but its true,nothing beats the original macross and dyrl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Well, at least there is new Macross to be talked about. Personally, I really enjoyed watching Macross Frontier, and I think that a lot of that was due to the fact that I got to watch it as an episodic weekly series, the way it is meant to be watched. If I had been given the lot on a heap of DVD's to watch in one go, I don't think that it would have been as enjoyable. It is surprising in a lot of ways that I enjoyed Frontier, cause I don't think that I fit into the normal demographic that a program like that is being aimed at (age-wise that is, late 30's), but I enjoyed it anyway. A really kiddified Macross would annoy me but I am yet to see this happening. As others have observed, it is about entertainment and escapism. Shows like Macross are meant to take your mind off your everyday problems and dilemma's (and I had a LOT of problems going on last year) and transport you to another place. I think a lot of people get too hung up on realism and things like that not just in Macross, but SF fandom in general. Taksraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ff95gj Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 You think too much! It's simply different tastes for different people. It also changes your preference when you view a series at a certain time of your life, at the point whom you can share with. Personally, I love SDF/DYRL and MF, and the other series in this order M0, M+, M7. Probably I love MF for its homage to the original series, and also I was back to the anime and toy world last year. So in a sense I "am seeing it happen", instead of looking back at some old animes. At the end of the day, it's all aboiut perception. Great to have something you like if you do, spend your time and money on something else if you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskiiVFaussie Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Are you reading the same Macross World Forums that I am...? Sometimes I think I'm alone for liking pretty much everything Macross... x 2, the glass is always half full with me. Edited October 9, 2009 by ruskiiVFaussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I'm with you Peter. I like some of the other mecha designs, and love the fact that there's still new Macross coming out so that it's likely I continue to get new DYRL? and SDFM toys, as well as drawing new people into the franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hm. Some thoughts: a) You wrote that you mainly liked that action in Robotech. When you finally saw the original Japanese Macross, did you still only mainly like the action - or did the plot, characters and music also move you? Because if it was just the action combined with a love of the specific mecha designs - then no wonder the newer stuff does nothing for you. No matter how great the action might be, it's not VF-1s.... b) You're not alone in disliking 7 and Zero. There are plenty of people who hate 7 for Bassara and kiddie protodevilin and hate Zero for being all "eco-feely-touchy." I happen to love the two shows for those precise reasons. I love Fire Bomber and I love the tension set up between nature and technology in Zero - a tension that also found its' way into Frontier (The Frontier being eco-friendly while Galaxy is science run amok). And mind you, I'm by no means what would be called an "environmentalist" in political parlance - I just happen to have a personal fondness for nature and sympathize with the philosophical notion that Man cannot be happy unless he also finds his place in Nature rather than covering it up in technology - though this personal view is by no means a political view in my case (in fact, I think that most environmentalist views are simplistic and destructive - and held by people who live in big cities and not in the wilderness - which is where I live).... But that's verging on off topic... Another, less sophisticated way of putting it is that I like sun-tanned chicks who swim naked in lakes and sing in French. c) Do you enjoy any other anime, or is it just a case of "I saw Robotech when I was a kid so I like Macross" ? Because that would also go a long way in explaining it. If you don't follow other non-Macross anime, then it probably is just nostalgia for a particular series/time in your life. If you DO follow and enjoy other anime, then it's more fair to say that you just don't like other Macross series but still have fun with anime in general. I dunno. I love the girls and the music and I love the humor too. The mecha and the action are secondary aspects for me. I love the characters and I really love the fashion. Especially in Macross Frontier - I love how much attention was paid to aesthetics. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Save Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I'm a bit older and tonight Macross Frontier started its second airing on TV with the first episode, even though I've seen it a few times I was still glued to the TV. MacF is more of a celebration of the macross life span for me. Allot of Mac fans seem to hate it for catering to the new anime scene in Japan, but for the future of the franchise it was a wise choice and it has brought in a new generation of fans. Many of these new fans actually want to see older Mac shows regardless of how old they are. Before Mac F getting somebody to watch an older Mac show wasn't easy now people ask which one should to watch. Mac F is good stuff but along with the good there is some bad but nothing to get over excited about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pondo Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) I'm 33 and I'm a fan of sdfm and macross frontier. The thing I love about them is the long arc. They take time for character development and in both of them, the scope gets much larger than any of the characters realize. I didn't understand the appeal to macross plus. Not at all. I didn't like Top gun, I didn't like macross plus. And DYRL isn't as interesting to me as to others. Great flick, but it's such an abridged story that I don't really care that much. I have the feeling that I'll enjoy macross zero. Edited October 9, 2009 by pondo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeszekely Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I think I might be a minority, but I think my least favorite part of Macross is actually DYRL. Only Dynamite 7 could be worse, and that's just because it's so pointless. Yeah, the animation is great. Yeah, the Strike Pack is cool, as are the Boddoleza ship and the Meltrandi ships. I liked seeing the Macross with the ARMD carriers the way it was supposed to be, and that first big fight was one of the best in Macross. But while it's all very visually stimulating, the story is a hack job compared to the TV series. None of the characters besides Hikaru, Minmay, and Misa have any development in the movie, and even then it pales to the their growth in the series. DYRL serves as a supplement to the TV series, one that fulfills a need to see the characters and mecha from a great but poorly-animated show in greater (physical) detail. It's worth watching occasionally for that reason, but it's such a pale imitation that 9 times out of 10 I'd rather watch the TV series. Macross II would be my next least favorite. They story is a such a carbon copy of DYRL's that it's hard to get excited about it. Silvie, Hibiki, and Ishtar get enough development and are likable enough, though, and I really like the animation. Macross Zero would be next. I thought it looked fantastic, but it feels so shoehorned into Macross continuity, and for what? It's all so self-contained that, aside from an underplayed familial relationship and an episode of Frontier where they're trying to make a movie about it, it add anything to Macross lore or continuity besides headaches. After Zero comes 7. The concept is a ridiculous hippy fantasy, Basara is possibly the least dynamic main character in all of Macross, and Sound Force's valkyries (as well as a lot of the ships in the Macross 7 fleet) fly in the face of serious military design. The plot is grounded in Macross lore, though, and a reason is given for why Sound Force's singing affects the Protodeviln. Some episodes can be delightfully irreverent and self-deprecating. Sound Force mecha aside, there are some good looking designs in the series (C'mon, you know Battle 7 is awesome, and this is the show that gave us the VF-17). And the animation is pretty good... when they're not recycling it. After 7 comes Plus. Slick mecha but piss-poor character designs (with noses a swordfish would be proud of). Top-notch action is driven by an adequate story. After Plus is Frontier. I like how Frontier gave us a more realistic look at the colony fleets (no pyramids with "E=MC²" written on them, just military ships and domes). Frontier is populated with great, well-animated characters. I love the references and homages to past Macross series, and I appreciated the blending of serious episodes with more light-hearted ones, as well as the blending of action episodes with character-driven episodes. My biggest gripes with Frontier are that the Vajura were lame and that the plot got a little too convoluted at the end for its own good. The best Marcoss is the original TV series. What's not to like? A great cast, classic mecha, and story that captured our imaginations. The only complaint is the poor quality of animation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginrai Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 When the Animeigo DVD series came out for the original series, I blew $400 and got it. How did you blow $400 on a DVD set that sold for $250, even at the initial preorder, which was the most expensive way to get it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 SDF/DYRL FTW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thankheaven Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Everyone are allowed to like or dislike whatever they want. Thats why Macross is so great, diversity. There is something for everyone, even though everything may not be for everyone. There is nothing wrong with you, you have your tastes and opinions and others have their's. What pisses me off though is when some people come in and say this sucks, i am right, those that disagree are wrong and my opinion is the only one that matters. I think if every macross show looked like the original people would complain too. Personally i prefer that each show has its own story and unique mecha designs that set them apart from the last, even though i may not like everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I think one of the best things about Macross is that it does span so much time that there can be something for everyone. For me, I was hooked by Robotech, reeled in by Yoko Kanno's music in Macross Plus, then stayed for the mecha... and even then, mostly the fighter modes. I'm peripherally interested in most things Macross related, sorta as a follow-on of my enjoyment of the original series and Macross Plus (plus I found Macross 7 strangely charming... but I attribute that to having seen so many musicals that inappropriate song placement actually catches my attention ). Believe me, you're not alone in having a selective taste when it comes to Macross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight26 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 hi. i'm all for old school goodness too. but sadly this is the only consolation i can get from studio nue and big west: http://macross.jp/pc/index.html watch the animations from the squares in the background. a remake of scenes from the original tv macross for pachinko game. a FREAKING PACHINKO GAME!! DON"T THEY FRAKKING DESERVE SOMETHING BETTER THAT A FRAKKING PACHINKO GAME???!!!! *sigh i feel your sorrow man. gone are the days. . . Holy shreg, we need to have someone compile all those little videos, hopefully at higher res, they look awesome and completely gorgeous. Frag me, seeing those makes me want a reanimated original Macross to come to the screen, it looked like even the character animation had been updated as well, very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 ... What pisses me off though is when some people come in and say this sucks, i am right, those that disagree are wrong and my opinion is the only one that matters. ... Yup, I've had enough of people calling others immature or pedophiles over a cartoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginrai Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Thats why Macross is so great, diversity. I thought Macross was great because of robot jets, good music, and pretty girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Picky Pete picks on some posts: Macross Zero would be next. I thought it looked fantastic, but it feels so shoehorned into Macross continuity, and for what? It's all so self-contained that, aside from an underplayed familial relationship and an episode of Frontier where they're trying to make a movie about it, it add anything to Macross lore or continuity besides headaches. But it's such a compelling love story, unlike DYRL, which is less compelling - in this one you can really feel Shin and Sara's relationship blossom and come on - the ending is amazing! And it's so moving. This is the best OVA in Macross bar none. Perfect from A to Z. To this day I can't understand why anybody would have a single complaint about this. I was so happy to see an episode dedicated to it in MF. After Zero comes 7. The concept is a ridiculous hippy fantasy, Basara is possibly the least dynamic main character in all of Macross, and Sound Force's valkyries (as well as a lot of the ships in the Macross 7 fleet) fly in the face of serious military design. Well, technically we can't blame the designs of Sound Force's valkyrie for "flying in the face of serious military design" because...they seriously aren't military jets. They are customs and privately owned valkyrie. Plain and simple. This was actually something I really liked about M7 - it showed that valkyrie eventually weren't something that only the military had and the rest of us rubes never got. People could buy their own and do what they wanted with them. Bassara got his, painted it red, gave it a face and made it into a music machine. You can say they are silly designs - but not silly because they aren't true to military form, since they never were meant to be. After 7 comes Plus. Slick mecha but piss-poor character designs (with noses a swordfish would be proud of). Yeah - totally agree. Although, after a while watching, you do get used to it - and in fact the noses aren't really that pronounced - they're just not something anime watchers are used to. It's almost as though they just can't find middle ground between "no nose to speak of" and "sword fish nose" and like the animators were trying to be really revolutionary here saying "look - we'll make this SO REALISTIC that the people will have VISIBLE noses! No anime has done that before!" But actually - unless my memory is short circuiting (always possible), I believe Ideon did this, as did Neon Genesis Evangelion to some extent. In any case, I'm a "no nose" fan because cute girls usually have no noses anyways. that just sounds so wrong Sorry for picking on you - but your post was so detailed that I couldn't resist having a conversation with it Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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