Ghost Train Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 No they don't. They own distribution rights to the SDFM animation and subsequent merchandizing rights to said animation. All the Macross mecha, characters and story belong to the rightful Intellectual Property rights owner, Big West and Studio Nue. Seto covers the issue in depth on an RT forum: http://www.robotechx.com/forums/51-canon-f...oss-rights.html The MW thread on the same subject is here: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=153 Don't be fooled by misleading statements made by RT fans or HG staff... I think it wasn't 100% obvious I was being sarcastic, even after I claimed Daschund and French Toast ownership in the name of HG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thankheaven Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Destroids should only play a supporting role, nothing more. The VF's is what makes macross unique. If not its just like every other mecha anime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Robot Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Destroids should only play a supporting role, nothing more. The VF's is what makes macross unique. If not its just like every other mecha anime. Destroids are neat and all, and seeing more of them would be nice, but I can't fault that. "The next Macross should be all about the regular land mecha" is one of those suggestions that goes on the shelf next to "The next Macross should be a gritty military drama without any of that singing and love stuff." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Not sure a Macross where the Destroids are center stage would work but if a character was a Destroid pilot - maybe the best friend of the hot-shot VF pilot? - and be involved in the requisite Macross love triangle, that could create some interesting tensions (not only in the love triangle but also the different battle perspectives of the two pilots). It exists. It's called Robotech: Battlecry. Stupid Gamecube game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Destroids are neat and all, and seeing more of them would be nice, but I can't fault that. "The next Macross should be all about the regular land mecha" is one of those suggestions that goes on the shelf next to "The next Macross should be a gritty military drama without any of that singing and love stuff." exACTly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Heh... if you want Destroid action, Macross style, check out Macross Plus Game Edition. In the player vs player mode, you and your opponent can go at it in any of the SDF:M destroids. Though, it's a bit disconcerning seeing the HWR-00-MkII Monster hovering and making building high leaps. Ah well... at least you get to pilot it. The reverse spinning leap kicks of the Regults are also pretty funky, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neko_fr Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Hi! I think that making a serie, where we would see a veritech pilot and a destroid pilots as heroes and good friends would be a great idea. It could ad a new dimension to everything. Destroids are not useless : there used to see the intensity of the fights (..when they are destroyed ) and we should consider them as the equivalent of main battle tanks of today : not always necessary, but sometimes a good addition to friendly forces... Even the american army is going to keep them (the MBTs, of course ) instead of phasing them out, as previously planned. I'm dreaming of new Destroids and model kits of these, even MKits of Cheyenne and Octo would be great. And at last : a kit of the SV-51 in battroid mode (1/72 scale)..This is a veritech by itself and it doesn't have all modes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Hi! I think that making a serie, where we would see a veritech pilot and a destroid pilots as heroes and good friends would be a great idea. It could ad a new dimension to everything. What's a "veritech"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mospeadamacrosstech Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 This takes me back to Robotech: Battlecry. Yea, yea, I know it's not officially Macross. Whatever. Point is, I remember the destroid level where you have to assist a group of destroids. That for me, was a blast. I've always loved the destroids and always wanted to see them get more love than they've gotten in the past. Yes, it would be great to devote an episode or mini told through the perspective of a destroid pilot. I agree, Macross is all about the Valkyrie pilots, but it would be fun to see things through the eyes of another combatant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDClip Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 This takes me back to Robotech: Battlecry. Yea, yea, I know it's not officially Macross. Whatever. Point is, I remember the destroid level where you have to assist a group of destroids. That for me, was a blast. I've always loved the destroids and always wanted to see them get more love than they've gotten in the past. Yes, it would be great to devote an episode or mini told through the perspective of a destroid pilot. I agree, Macross is all about the Valkyrie pilots, but it would be fun to see things through the eyes of another combatant. How about an episode in the next series were the main character meets and makes friends with a destroid pilot who is a member of the destroid corps. AKA "The Daisy Pushers". The destroid pilot is either an old veteren that is 2 days from retirement or a fresh faced rookie with a wife and baby kid. This pilot can be nicknamed "Wormfood" and his mecha can be called the "Farm Buyer". When they are attacked by some crazy space things everyone fights courageously and just as the battle is about to end Wormfood's desteroid gets shot... But he lives!!! ... ... Next day as he is walking down the street, he suddenly blows up for no reason other than destroid pilots must always die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mospeadamacrosstech Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) How about an episode in the next series were the main character meets and makes friends with a destroid pilot who is a member of the destroid corps. AKA "The Daisy Pushers". The destroid pilot is either an old veteren that is 2 days from retirement or a fresh faced rookie with a wife and baby kid. This pilot can be nicknamed "Wormfood" and his mecha can be called the "Farm Buyer". When they are attacked by some crazy space things everyone fights courageously and just as the battle is about to end Wormfood's desteroid gets shot... But he lives!!! ... ... Next day as he is walking down the street, he suddenly blows up for no reason other than destroid pilots must always die. The man is always keeping the destroid pilots down. Edited October 31, 2009 by mospeadamacrosstech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Oh please Destroid pilots live to enjoy their retirements. Just look at the Monster crew in Macross 7's veteran retirement home. And they get to keep the Destroid as part of their pension! Edited October 31, 2009 by RedWolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Train Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Enough with the calls for a series with "normal grunts in destroids just slugging it out and making a living"! Isn't the story of a boy with blue hair who happens to look somewhat effeminate, under the command of a tough guy who likes pineapple salad, whose squadron sniper wears glasses and has a friend who can transform from a seemingly tween appearance to a gigantic female warrior normal & joe-six-pack enough for you guys ? Edited October 31, 2009 by Ghost Train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 If you want to come up with some justification for it, in SDFM the main reason to make more destroids than Valkyries was cost - and then they turned out to be less valuable than Valkyries because of how much combat turned out to be air/space based due to the nature of the war. The destroids actually wound up being fairly useful to the Macross, since it never got to dock with the ARMDs and was very light on anti-mecha weaponry because of it. Every time you see that poor Defender get blown up(seriously, almost EVERY Destroid death is the SAME Destroid), it means they deployed Destroids and they were in combat with zentradi that made it past the Valkyries... Which means they were keeping the zentradi from tearing the Macross apart. Also means that it was a critical enough battle for the dimension-hopping Orguiss Valkyrie to step in and beef up the defenses, but... (amusing that a minor cameo got stuck in the most frequently-used chunk of animation after the title sequence) Combine that lesson with increased focus on space fleet defense in the era of human expansion through the galaxy, possibly with VF costs dropping faster than destroid costs, and with the sort of focus on fighters that's sometimes remarked on/complained about with the real world military? It just stands to reason that destroids would get no love from the UNS/NUNS/etc. We might see more when it comes to defending planet-based installations or something, but we really haven't seen that in animation since that time with Hikaru. I doubt VF costs have dropped low enough to make them an economic alternative to destroids for planetary defense. Macross 7 and Frontier are both colony fleets. I wouldn't EXPECT them to carry combat destroids, actually. This is where the VF's modular nature really appeals. They can throw GBP packages on their VFs and convert them into cheap destroids. They get a lot of the armor benefit and weaponry benefit, without having to actually spend the mass and hanger space on full destroids. They can let the GBP VFs hold the surface while they retool their assembly lines to make some destroids for permanent surface defense. Zero... naval battles. I don't think they even brought a landing craft for a ground assault. Plus was mostly the two test-pilots beating each other up. And I don't think Sharon's puppets were in any shape to drive a car, much less a fighting robot. Though seeing some NeoSpartans come in and secure the pair of them after the accident(s) would've been awesome. Basically, we haven't seen a Macross where destroids would be expected to have any real role since SDFM/DYRL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Macross 7 and Frontier are both colony fleets. I wouldn't EXPECT them to carry combat destroids, actually. where destroids would be expected to have any real role since SDFM/DYRL. But they do have destroids just that they have different status. Macross 7 these were collector items often by Space War 1 veterans. The civilian government was more reliant on City Patroids and City Machines. Macross Frontier they have a larger population and manufacturing base that they produce and use the Cheyene II. In terms of civilian construction purposes Macross Frontier has the Destroid Work while Macross 7 has a VF-1 construction variant. (As evidenced Macross Dynamite 7 with the construction of Battle 7.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenomMacbeth Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) The way I see it, Destroid pilots are no more doomed than Valkyrie ones. You see just as many Cannon Fodder VF-1As blow up as you do Destroids. Even the great Roy Focker got shot down ultimately. Hikaru got his arse handed to him all the time, and yet he always managed to live through it. However, I have yet to see a VF get squashed by a chunk of meteor (a la Defender.) Poor guy... Edited November 17, 2009 by VenomMacbeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrossnake Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Don't know if you guys have seen this.... The game developer has stopped using this model, since it is simply looks like a Destroid as we all know it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.D. Ivanov Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) Even the great Roy Focker got shot down ultimately. Bullets shooting through the back of the Valkyrie into the pilot doesn't count as being shot down. He landed, THEN died. Well, went to get some "pineapple salad", then died. under the command of a tough guy who likes pineapple salad You mean pineapple cake. And yes, we've seen the whole thing about the Tomahawk/Warhammer. But WHY they can't use it is best left to the Licensing Debate thread. Edited November 21, 2009 by D.D. Ivanov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkenstein Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Was the Octos from Zero a dead end design? Im surprised the UN didn't improve on it,Im sure having even more transforming battleships would be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.D. Ivanov Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 The Macross Mecha Manual says that the UN started producing their own, but only got 28 out before the production line was destroyed in Space War One. It also started out production with a fuel cell cluster and gas turbine engine, and was protected by composite armor, while later models had energy-conversion armor and were nuclear powered; I assume these latter two were modifications by the UN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Most important is to look at the numbers. There are twice as many Tomahawks as there are Valkyries on the SDF-1. So of course, they're going to go down in great numbers... I'd be very surprised if we saw twice as many Tomahawks get blown away as CF VF-1A, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Macross 7 has construction custom versions of Destroids. A construction version of the VF-1 was shown in Macross Dynamite 7 episode 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Gloval Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) You also have to look at the fact, in the case of M7 and M25, you are a on a space convoy. You have a finite amout of space to dedicate to factory implacements. You have to have VFs. That goes without saying for space operations. Therefore if, with a few very small factories, you can make customize parts for the VFs you ar already chruning out to preform the same duty as a destroid instead of having to dedicate multiple large factories to make the same one purpose unit, you should go that route. And with the recycling system they would have to have on a colony convoy like the 7 or 25, you would be able to churn out a lot more "standard" VFs at a much lower price. Destroids are just not a smart use of space and resources for a deep space convoy. Edited December 18, 2009 by Cpt_Gloval Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Destroids are just not a smart use of space and resources for a deep space convoy. *Destroid Work takes offense at that.* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robelwell202 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 You also have to look at the fact, in the case of M7 and M25, you are a on a space convoy. You have a finite amout of space to dedicate to factory implacements. You have to have VFs. That goes without saying for space operations. Therefore if, with a few very small factories, you can make customize parts for the VFs you ar already chruning out to preform the same duty as a destroid instead of having to dedicate multiple large factories to make the same one purpose unit, you should go that route. And with the recycling system they would have to have on a colony convoy like the 7 or 25, you would be able to churn out a lot more "standard" VFs at a much lower price. Destroids are just not a smart use of space and resources for a deep space convoy. Ah, but we DO see destroids in MacF. SMS uses Cheyenne Mk2s rather extensively on the decks of the Quarter, and they play a major role in celebration activities surrounding the extended fold jump. I erally have to disagree with the premise you propose. It's comparable to saying that any branch of (for example) the US military should only use planes, and forgo the use of tanks, armored vehicles, helicopters, ad infantry. I agree that a lot of the action in any Macross series takes place in VFs, but there are other mecha that are seen. But, this chould not be the limiting factor. A VF can do many things, but there are needs for a machine that is purpose-built to do some things that a VF would only do as a secondary role. Take the Cheyenne. In a perfect world, the Cheyenne would be shown to be more successful than it is in MacF, but, as they are used as cannon-fodder and plot advancers, they aren't, unfortunately. And, just like the Cheyennes, the Tomahawks before them are given the same treatment, even though we can see in the statistics that the Tomahawk has rather immense power in it. No, if you look at the sheer size of the island fleet in MacF, there would be more than enough space to ddevelop and manufacture destroids. I mean, if they can have a whole island dedicated to a Zentradi tourist area and shopping mall, then they can give space for destroids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkenstein Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I think the destroids went down the wrong path. Fixed gun placements are fine for point defense, but to have real manueverability they would need something close to VOTOMS or Heavy Gear piloted mecha. Smaller mechs are also much better for urban combat, which surprisingly there is very little in the Macross Universe. My best guess is that in the next Macross, Shoji Kawamori is going to rectify that with true bipedal combat mechs, similar to Armored Core or Front Mission. It really bugged me that the destroids were such one trick ponies. They were basically walking missile racks and not much else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robelwell202 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 It really bugged me that the destroids were such one trick ponies. They were basically walking missile racks and not much else. That is a shame, but there's soemthing else that bugged me in MacF. In Mac0, we see the first Cheyenne model, and that would be really cool. I mean, if you look at the design-evolution/progression idea, then yeah, the Cheyenne could be a progenitor of the SDF-Mac/DYRL-era destroids. But, in MacF, they revert to a newer model of the Cheyenne? Where's the updated Tomahawk? Or the updated Spartan? the closest we get to those is in Mac7, where they're relegated to construction use! It was explained to me that the Cheyenne Mk2s we see in MacF were purchased by SMS, and then heavily modified and upgraded. I can't confirm this, but it would (sorta) make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Was the Octos from Zero a dead end design? Im surprised the UN didn't improve on it,Im sure having even more transforming battleships would be useful. Yeah, what was seen of the Octos in Zero was pretty cool. I wish they expanded on it a little more from what it could do. http://www.new-un-spacy.com/macrosszero/octos.htm It almost looks similar to a red Vajra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 (edited) But, in MacF, they revert to a newer model of the Cheyenne? Where's the updated Tomahawk? Or the updated Spartan? the closest we get to those is in Mac7, where they're relegated to construction use! they already had a cgi model of the Cheyenne so they just reused that. Frontier is built on the scraps of Zero. Edited December 19, 2009 by VF5SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robelwell202 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 they already had a cgi model of the Cheyenne so they just reused that. Frontier is built on the scraps of Zero. This I understand, as behind-the-scenes issues, but the cover-story put out for the actual animation is a bit odd, if you get my drift. Ultimately, it comes down to me nit-picking a show I enjoy very much, in a good-natured way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Yeah, what was seen of the Octos in Zero was pretty cool. I wish they expanded on it a little more from what it could do. http://www.new-un-spacy.com/macrosszero/octos.htm It almost looks similar to a red Vajra. The Octos is going to be the "Boba Fett" of the Macross universe. Rarely seen and never properly used. What a waste of a unique and interesting unit.... Taksraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 they already had a cgi model of the Cheyenne so they just reused that. Frontier is built on the scraps of Zero. You could argue that. Personally I would argue that they standardised designs. Taksraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 (edited) But, in MacF, they revert to a newer model of the Cheyenne? Where's the updated Tomahawk? Or the updated Spartan? the closest we get to those is in Mac7, where they're relegated to construction use! It doesn't make much sense from an in-universe perspective, does it? Instead of having updated versions of the existing Space War 1-era family of destroids or a new model of destroid designed specifically for use in colony fleets, the Frontier fleet uses a "redesigned" version of a pre-Space War 1 predecessor of the original ADR-04 Defender series... a model of destroid that's been obsolete for a good fifty years. The explanation that the Cheyenne II is an a jack-of-all-trades since they bolted a pair of beam guns, some small missile launchers, and a few small rocket engines to it screams "This is an excuse to justify reusing an existing design!". The only part of it that actually makes sense is that the wheels in the feet don't wreck up the pavement like a giant walking robot would... though it does leave you wondering why they're more worried about destroids inside the dome ruining the pavement when their job is ostensibly to stop the enemy from ever getting inside in the first place. You'd think once there was fighting inside the dome itself, pavement damage would be the least of their worries. As far as the Spartan goes, it's really no surprise that one was an evolutionary dead-end. Once VFs were durable enough to saunter into close-quarters combat with the Zentradi and not embarrass themselves, the MBR-07 Spartan was, for all practical purposes, redundant. they already had a cgi model of the Cheyenne so they just reused that. Frontier is built on the scraps of Zero. Yeah... that's pretty likely IMHO. The destroids in Macross Frontier were always going to be minor background units, so why bother spending a lot of time and money building an all new CG model for something that's only going to get like five minutes of screen time across a 25 episode series? Still... it doesn't make a lick of sense where the technological continuity is concerned. Maybe they should've taken some pointers from the Macross II mechanical designers and done it anyway. You could argue that. Personally I would argue that they standardized designs. "Standardized designs"? I could see that being true if the Cheyenne weren't a fifty year old, obsolete design, and if we hadn't seen in Macross 7 that the Space War 1-era destroids are still in use for a variety of purposes. Maybe after blowing all their money on the VF-25 and SMS the Frontier Government had to cheap out on their anti-aircraft defenses, and that's why they've got souped-up antiques on the battlefield. Edited December 20, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Maybe they should've taken some pointers from the Macross II mechanical designers and done it anyway. Oh everything's better with Macross II, go to bed old man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robelwell202 Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Oh everything's better with Macross II, go to bed old man. Don't be too hard on ol' Seto... he does have a point. Mac2:LA is probably the only installation of the franchise that I've ever seen real design progression, as far as destroids are concerned. The Mac2:LA version of the Tomahawk, for instance, is just plain scary. I won't even mention thier 'Monster' variant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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