Macross Frontier Movie 1,YES it is subbed now edition

[VF5SS]

Well the blue hair, masculinity issues, and this tipped me off.

[Tochiro]

Wow, this discussion has been somewhat...sidetracked? lol

Personally I enjoyed the heck out of the movie. Even more so the 2nd time. But I got exactly what I was expecting.

Actually no, I retract that. In a way I got MORE than what I was expecting. I was expecting a clip movie, much like the 00 Gundam or Gundam Seed or Turn A Gundam ones. What I got was 50%-60% new footage, increased detail in some of the reused footage (ie, cockpit detail) and an entire mini-albums worth of awesome new songs (which made me change my mind about Mayn's Budokan concert in January and now Im desperately bidding in half a dozen auctions for tickets ^^; )

I got big explosions. I got eye candy on the big screen. And that was what I was expecting.

Seriously, anyone expecting MORE character development out of a 2 hr movie that covers half of a 26 (25?) episode series is just being unreasonable. Was a LOT of the character interaction and development cut? Yes, undoubtedly. It was cut to cram the basics into a much shorter format. But this is not DYRL, nor did it ever claim to be a similar sort of product. Its a repackaging of the story, not a retelling.

Who is it aimed at then? Easy question. The existing fanbase. Those who know the original intricately and are interested i seeing how it gets changed, what is added, what is taken away. Despite Kawamori's comment that he HOPED that the movies would allow those who had missed the series to experience Frontier (documentary on MUF bonus UMD) this is not who it has been made for or even marketed at. The fun of a show like this IS the changes and thats what the audience was totally digging both times I saw it. They know the characters and this knowledge is taken as a given. Hence the movie gets away with not explaining a whole lot of background stuff that it possibly should have. It still, however, manages to make better sense to a new viewer than trying to watch the latest Naruto or PureCure theatrical release without knowing any of those series respective backstories.

Once the first movie was revealed to be a clip movie, I expected way less than it ultimately provided due to many years of bad experience with other series clip-fests. It isnt meant to be a stand alone feature. And I think thats where a lot of opinion gets divided (although the split is USUALLY between those who see it in Japan along with all the marketing, tv coverage, concerts and tie ins and those who see it in the vacuum of watching it online...or anywhere outside of Japan pretty much).

For the record, I view the series as immensly superior to the movie, however the movie does add some very good stuff to existing scenes which needed some fleshing out as well as adding some eye candy and fan service.

Think of it less as DYRL and more like a cross betwen Evangelion 2.0 and the Z Gundam New Translations - a lot of pretty new animation on a story you already know and a few big WTF moments.

As for what happened to Nakajimas voice - she aged. Simple as that. She was 18 when she recorded the series and is 20 now. Her take on Ranka seems a little older now, but is still quite good (heck she was even doing a slightly deeper Ranka during the in character bits of the Budokan concert - check out the DVD or BR!)

Personally one of the biggest things about the movie for me was how they rerecorded ALL the dialogue. Some scenes came across quite differently and both Ranka and Sherryl had a lot more confidence (much like the Eva rebuilds). This is probably why I never noticed the pacing issues that some have been complaining about. Yes, the action DID all happen at the beginning and the end, but I was too entranced by the dialogue in the middle to really take notice. Or, maybe everyone else has ADD. Who knows?

Maybe the reasoning above seems like a copout to some of you, but I think its necessary just to enjoy the movie for what it IS. And the first step of that process is realising what it ISNT. It ISNT DYRL and it ISNT a substitute for the original series. IT IS a HELL of a lot of FUN though.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Tochiro

[DeX-kun]

Wow, this discussion has been somewhat...sidetracked? lol

Personally I enjoyed the heck out of the movie. Even more so the 2nd time. But I got exactly what I was expecting.

Actually no, I retract that. In a way I got MORE than what I was expecting. I was expecting a clip movie, much like the 00 Gundam or Gundam Seed or Turn A Gundam ones. What I got was 50%-60% new footage, increased detail in some of the reused footage (ie, cockpit detail) and an entire mini-albums worth of awesome new songs (which made me change my mind about Mayn's Budokan concert in January and now Im desperately bidding in half a dozen auctions for tickets ^^; )

I got big explosions. I got eye candy on the big screen. And that was what I was expecting.

Seriously, anyone expecting MORE character development out of a 2 hr movie that covers half of a 26 (25?) episode series is just being unreasonable. Was a LOT of the character interaction and development cut? Yes, undoubtedly. It was cut to cram the basics into a much shorter format. But this is not DYRL, nor did it ever claim to be a similar sort of product. Its a repackaging of the story, not a retelling.

Who is it aimed at then? Easy question. The existing fanbase. Those who know the original intricately and are interested i seeing how it gets changed, what is added, what is taken away. Despite Kawamori's comment that he HOPED that the movies would allow those who had missed the series to experience Frontier (documentary on MUF bonus UMD) this is not who it has been made for or even marketed at. The fun of a show like this IS the changes and thats what the audience was totally digging both times I saw it. They know the characters and this knowledge is taken as a given. Hence the movie gets away with not explaining a whole lot of background stuff that it possibly should have. It still, however, manages to make better sense to a new viewer than trying to watch the latest Naruto or PureCure theatrical release without knowing any of those series respective backstories.

Once the first movie was revealed to be a clip movie, I expected way less than it ultimately provided due to many years of bad experience with other series clip-fests. It isnt meant to be a stand alone feature. And I think thats where a lot of opinion gets divided (although the split is USUALLY between those who see it in Japan along with all the marketing, tv coverage, concerts and tie ins and those who see it in the vacuum of watching it online...or anywhere outside of Japan pretty much).

For the record, I view the series as immensly superior to the movie, however the movie does add some very good stuff to existing scenes which needed some fleshing out as well as adding some eye candy and fan service.

Think of it less as DYRL and more like a cross betwen Evangelion 2.0 and the Z Gundam New Translations - a lot of pretty new animation on a story you already know and a few big WTF moments.

As for what happened to Nakajimas voice - she aged. Simple as that. She was 18 when she recorded the series and is 20 now. Her take on Ranka seems a little older now, but is still quite good (heck she was even doing a slightly deeper Ranka during the in character bits of the Budokan concert - check out the DVD or BR!)

Personally one of the biggest things about the movie for me was how they rerecorded ALL the dialogue. Some scenes came across quite differently and both Ranka and Sherryl had a lot more confidence (much like the Eva rebuilds). This is probably why I never noticed the pacing issues that some have been complaining about. Yes, the action DID all happen at the beginning and the end, but I was too entranced by the dialogue in the middle to really take notice. Or, maybe everyone else has ADD. Who knows?

Maybe the reasoning above seems like a copout to some of you, but I think its necessary just to enjoy the movie for what it IS. And the first step of that process is realising what it ISNT. It ISNT DYRL and it ISNT a substitute for the original series. IT IS a HELL of a lot of FUN though.

This is an extremely interesting take. Well I can't wait to see the movie myself but I'm curious, you mentioned that the first part of the movie has most of the action, does that mean the rest turns into a kind of slice-of-life version of MF? If so, I would probably enjoy the movie even more I don't think the movie should be judged so harshly considering it's the first of 2 movies and how much is being condensed.

Edited December 9, 2009 by DeX-kun

[Save]

IT IS a HELL of a lot of FUN though.

Yes it is, so far I'm up to seeing it four times.

[UN Spacy]

In all honesty I (if I lived in Japan) I would have seen this movie at least THREE times by now.

[Renato]

Yet, Alto is a weaker character??? We all watched it for CG Valks and the return of Fokker.

No, you misunderstood, I agree Shin might be the weaker character, see in my previous post that I'd forgotten all about him. What I wrote about Shin was literally all I could remember about him. I was just going to lump him together with Alto, but then I realized people might be offended by that, so I talked a bit about him separately, and then it looked like I'm putting him with the characters that have GOOD development. Trust me, I don't think so at ALL.

Renato just a over a month ago you had told me in Shinjuku that you didn't even finish watching Frontier. If my memory serves me correctly you stopped at episode seven, and that you found nothing in the show of worth to make you finish watching it. I guess you went back and finished otherwise how do you know all the un-tied strings of Alto's character from the series, to base you heavy handed opinion? Alto is a male character designed for female fans (at least 50% of the fan base) not for us. Without his loser Fujoshi element Frontier would have not been a series, it would have been straight to DVD and most likely suffer the same fate as Zero's long drawn out OVA release.

I think you are confusing me with Yellowlightman, I know he said he didn't finish it. I taped it every week. Maybe I used an expression like "as far as I'm concerned the show ends at episode seven" or something, because of the big battle and also due to that stupid "Sheryl's panties" episode immediately after. Now I wish I HADN'T watched past it....

As for the fujoshi thing, trust me, I know, I know. It's really sad to see the situation come to this. But when you think about it, the only reason giant robots are in Macross in the first place is because you had to have them in an early 80s anime, so I guess the next TV show (whenever that may be) will also have pre-requisites based on contemporaneous fads some may adore and others will detest.

Sorry, that's really all the time I have now, but if you want to discuss this in depth I'll be in Tokyo for a few days next week, possibly the 17th-19th (and on the 12th for one day, too, but that is just a quick "zip-in, zip-out" at Meiji University, so I doubt I will have time to do anything), so if you have time let's get together.

-Renato

[Bri]

Alto is a male character designed for female fans (at least 50% of the fan base) not for us. Without his loser Fujoshi element Frontier would have not been a series, it would have been straight to DVD and most likely suffer the same fate as Zero's long drawn out OVA release.

Are the fujoshi such a big element in (mecha) sales? Every gundam (since Wing iirc) seems to have some yaoi elements as well.

[VF5SS]

Girls who like boys who drive giant robots.

welcome to the future

[Freiflug88]

Girls who like boys who drive giant robots.

welcome to the future

I can tell just from the title the writer of that article doesn't know what he is talking about.

"Chicks dig giant robots," not the annoying emo pilots that pilot them.

[aquilon]

In all honesty I (if I lived in Japan) I would have seen this movie at least THREE times by now.

+100.....if my trip to Taiwan becomes a reality in Feb and if MF is playing there, I'm going to try and talk the GF into seeing it with me.....otherwise I guess I'll just have to wait for a bootleg copy or a download w/ fansubs.

[aquilon]

"Chicks dig giant robots," not the annoying emo pilots that pilot them.

Ah yes, the infamous pilot groupies.....just ask any (real) fighter jock if such a thing exists.....

[VF5SS]

Ok let me put it you this way. Go to eBay and type in "Graham Gundam" (as in the character Graham Aker from Gundam 00) and see just how many different Yaoi Doujins are being listed for sale. And it's not limited to the current wave of mecha pilots either. Even characters like Kamille, Amuro, and Gamlin have been recognized as having many of the qualities that appeal the the fujoshi audience.

To quote a fujoshi, "I like how Sheryl molests Alto."

[Bri]

Girls who like boys who drive giant robots.

welcome to the future

A thanks for the list. So they are a factor, interesting.

The lists results are focused on high profile titles. No Noitamina anime with the women, bit odd, thought Honey and Clover would at least be on their list. Men seem to be really into moe with Nanoha, Saki, LS and K-on. And those girls like their men emo...Though there is a ray of hope, men don't put Code Geass among their favorites

Ok let me put it you this way. Go to eBay and type in "Graham Gundam" (as in the character Graham Aker from Gundam 00) and see just how many different Yaoi Doujins are being listed for sale. And it's not limited to the current wave of mecha pilots either. Even characters like Kamille, Amuro, and Gamlin have been recognized as having many of the qualities that appeal the the fujoshi audience.

I guess we can expect more emo boy pilots like Alto for Macross in the future...Seems Itano had a point with his human failure remark.

Where is Goto when you need him? " No, we don't use emotionally instable middle schoolers as labor pilots, what do you think this is? Mazinger?"

[VF5SS]

I don't Alto was that bad. Like I said he's basically Camille right down to having a robot that turns into an airplane.

[Marzan]

In all honesty I (if I lived in Japan) I would have seen this movie at least THREE times by now.

Same here. But alas, 10000 kilometers away one has to patiently wait for the dvd like many others...

[mike_s_6]

I don't Alto was that bad. Like I said he's basically Camille right down to having a robot that turns into an airplane.

But... "Alto" is a man's name! Oh wait there's his surname... *gets shot*

[sketchley]

But... "Alto" is a man's name! Oh wait there's his surname... *gets shot*

POW

Saotome is his surname. Aruto (Alto) is his first name.

[Graham]

I guess we can expect more emo boy pilots like Alto for Macross in the future...Seems Itano had a point with his human failure remark.

IMO, Alto's behavior never came across as emo to me. He aways seemed quite calm and level-headed. He didn't bitch and whine, or agonise about killing (like most Gundam pilots). He just got in his Valk and did the job, without fuss.

Graham

[VF5SS]

Well he does scream other people's names a lot.

LUKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

[DeX-kun]

Well he does scream other people's names a lot.

RANKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

Fixed Luca was only one episode, as for the rest of the episodes...well yeah, you know the rest

[mike_s_6]

POW

Saotome is his surname. Aruto (Alto) is his first name.

I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength though? Kamille has a popular line, "Kamille is a man's name, and I'm a man!" So I thought they're different because "Alto" sounds like a man's name... but then his surname is Sa-OTOME.

[Killer Robot]

IMO, Alto's behavior never came across as emo to me. He aways seemed quite calm and level-headed. He didn't bitch and whine, or agonise about killing (like most Gundam pilots). He just got in his Valk and did the job, without fuss.

Graham

I wouldn't call him uniformly calm and level-headed, though he sometimes is. Other times he's obviously trying to be cool and stoic. The rest, he's uniformly and sometimes violently angry. Still, I totally agree that three of these are pretty poor fits with the general "emo" stereotype of being emotional, and depressively mopey. I think a lot of people just say "emo" because he's not a cheery guy or raging hot blooded manly man or something. Which is true, and he's not the most dynamic person, but not the same thing.

[RDClip]

I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength though? Kamille has a popular line, "Kamille is a man's name, and I'm a man!" So I thought they're different because "Alto" sounds like a man's name... but then his surname is Sa-OTOME.

When i first heard the name 'Alto', i thought of the saxophone and the sax is a manly instrument. After all, Bill Clinton does play it (not sure if it was a alto though)

[magnuskn]

I wouldn't call him uniformly calm and level-headed, though he sometimes is. Other times he's obviously trying to be cool and stoic. The rest, he's uniformly and sometimes violently angry. Still, I totally agree that three of these are pretty poor fits with the general "emo" stereotype of being emotional, and depressively mopey. I think a lot of people just say "emo" because he's not a cheery guy or raging hot blooded manly man or something. Which is true, and he's not the most dynamic person, but not the same thing.

Besides the "Yaaaarrhhh!" screaming during combat, Alto calms down a lot after about episode nine, when he and Michael reconcile. Well, he gets still pissed at Brera, but who wouldn't?

Anyway, Alto is not emo at all. His complaining about his situation is kept to a bare minimum, as to establish that, yes, he has problems with his family. Any bouts of self-justification are normally triggered from outside forces ( Michael at first, then Yasaburo later on ), which simply indicates that he is not exactly comfortable leaving the tradition of being the next Ranzo behind, but determined to make his own future.

[Robelwell202]

Alto wasn't Emo...

During ep3 (On your marks), after Sheryl's 'wardrobe malfunction' in the shelter-pod, he laughed right along with Sheryl when Ranka offered them her snack (I forget exactly what they were, but you get the point.)

Also, during the first episodes, he's offering Ranka solid advise about performing on-stage, and from what little I know about Emos, they'd be more likely to offer you a spare razor blade than offer tha kind of advise.

To me, Alto just seemed determined to live doen the 'Princess' reputation he'd acquired, since he was trying to get as far away from 'Acting Clan Saotome'. Add to that, he seemed rather annoyed as being the automatic toy-object of a stellar diva.

Nah... he's all right for a guy. Personally, I'd've taken Sheryl up on everything she wanted, but... that's just me.

[sketchley]

I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength though? Kamille has a popular line, "Kamille is a man's name, and I'm a man!" So I thought they're different because "Alto" sounds like a man's name... but then his surname is Sa-OTOME.

Different wavelength me guesses. I misread your "there's" for "that's".

Anyhow, not sure if non-Japanese readers are getting the joke about the surname:

早乙女　(Saotome) which literally translates as "young girl; young female rice planter".

[Marzan]

Nah... he's all right for a guy. Personally, I'd've taken Sheryl up on everything she wanted, but... that's just me.

You're not alone!

[magnuskn]

You're not alone!

Yeah, same here.

Which, btw., automatically disqualifies us as persons of interest for Sheryl. One mayor turn-on for her in regards to Alto was his recalcitrance to treat her as something special. Which was quite justified, as he was all by himself a mayor star already when she wasn't even widely known and he therefore would most probably be immune to being star-struck.

[nanoplasm]

+100.....if my trip to Taiwan becomes a reality in Feb and if MF is playing there, I'm going to try and talk the GF into seeing it with me.....otherwise I guess I'll just have to wait for a bootleg copy or a download w/ fansubs.

Macross F in Taiwan theater release? Not happening.

The series doesn't even have an unified official name over there. Some people call it Macross, some call it Space Battleship (with intention to be confused with Yamato) , more people call it SDF, but most people just say "Mugs and Screws*, what's that? never heard of it".

But if you want to pick up any Macross toys in Taiwan at a decent price (about 5% higher than Japanese retail), PM me and I can point you in the right direction.

One Piece's latest movie will see a theatrical release in Taiwan in Feb if it's any consolation.

*What Macross sounds like in Chinese.

Edited December 11, 2009 by nanoplasm

[magnuskn]

Not exactly "movie" news, but since there is no general thread for the Macross light novels, it seems that in novel three ( of four ) we got confirmation that, YES, Sheryl and Alto did make love. Hooray!

[Funkenstein]

Ah yes, the infamous pilot groupies.....just ask any (real) fighter jock if such a thing exists.....

Wait, so Top Gun wasn't based on reality?

[Marzan]

Not exactly "movie" news, but since there is no general thread for the Macross light novels, it seems that in novel three ( of four ) we got confirmation that, YES, Sheryl and Alto did make love. Hooray!

Are we talking about that night in episode 22 at the Saotome residence? Or do the light novels follow a different line completely?

[magnuskn]

Are we talking about that night in episode 22 at the Saotome residence? Or do the light novels follow a different line completely?

That selfsame night. Here's a summary by AlaAlba from AnimeSuki, who did a translation on the fly:

when it's all over, the first thing crossed Alto's mind was....

"(I'm glad it's kimono)"

Only this.

If Sheryl wore a western clothes, the problem wasn't to undress or not to undress, but furthermost, maybe I couldnt even put off a button.

The way of undressing a woman's kimono, he was taught this specifically. This young man thanks all of those things the first time.

"N... yawn...."

She's sleeping, or so Alto taught of Sheryl, the girl moves her fingers, and in the way like cats would do, brushes Alto's cheek.

"Alto... What's in your mind"

"Ah, no, erm... I a, Did I do wrong, or not...."

"Ba, baka!"

Snap, Sheryl's hand slapped Alto's cheek.

"I don't have anyone to compare to, so how should I know! Baka baka!"

"So, sorry"

"I'll punish you for that ..., you have to just like this... together with me tonight"

[Marzan]

That selfsame night. Here's a summary by AlaAlba from AnimeSuki, who did a translation on the fly:

Poor "light novel" Ranka!

Thanks for the translation...

Let's see how they end it in the 2nd movie...

[magnuskn]

Poor "light novel" Ranka!

Thanks for the translation...

Let's see how they end it in the 2nd movie...

What, you read this incredibly sweet scene and the first thing you think off is "Poor Ranka!"?