Official Bandai 1/60 Scale DX Toy Thread Ver.6

[Negotiator]

anyone knows if that armor pack is compatible with the 1st issue of the alto unit?

or is it just for the reissue compatible

I put ozma's armor on my 1st issued alto. Don't think there should be

Any problems.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Negotiator

[jc07]

I put ozma's armor on my 1st issued alto. Don't think there should be

Any problems.

i see , thanks

[ff95gj]

Some quick shots for the battroid mode

And in case someone wonders, the rifle is from the 25G and not from the set.

Edited September 19, 2009 by ff95gj

[miriya]

holy frack that looks awesome. I love the dark colors of the armor!

[jc07]

Some quick shots for the battroid mode

And in case someone wonders, the rifle is from the 25G and not from the set.

looks awesome, almost exactly as the line art,

but the head looks different from the one at gamu website,

i guess they transformed it differently.

[ron5864]

I might pick up some Macross DX stuff when I go Hong Kong in November. They seem to have toys out way earlier than US retailers.

Man, I miss living in Chi Fu Fa Yun in Hong Kong before moving to the US. Morevoer, I really miss the convience of the Ocotpus card....

[nexxstrait]

Plain Alto DX comparison pics.

Fighter mode side by side with Yamato 1/60 v.1 and v.2

Battroid comparison with Yamato 1/60 v.1 and v.2, Bandai 1/72 model kit and Bandai 1/55 Chunky Monkey Anniversary

[vic01]

Just got both Ex-Gear Alto and DX Armored Parts for Alto.

Awesome set, too bad, no VF-25G rifle for an exclusive, you need to borrow it from VF-25G.

vic01

[UN Spacy]

Sweeet. I like the pose from the finale.

Very well done.

[adankree]

Hi,

Has anyone recieved an email from Anime Export regarding the Alto Armor parts shipping out. Thanks.

[VFTF1]

Finally got my Armored Ozma. Thus far, I've been content to just stare happily at the straight head-lasers. Looking at the above posted pics of Alto with that Armor on him...I think I'll be putting my armor on Alto. Definitely suits him better. Ozma will stay naked

I also get the impression that there are a lot more tampoo markings on Ozma than on the other three SMS valkyrie. Am I mistaken?

Pete

[Kanedas Bike]

Finally got my Armored Ozma. Thus far, I've been content to just stare happily at the straight head-lasers. Looking at the above posted pics of Alto with that Armor on him...I think I'll be putting my armor on Alto. Definitely suits him better. Ozma will stay naked

I also get the impression that there are a lot more tampoo markings on Ozma than on the other three SMS valkyrie. Am I mistaken?

Pete

I thougth that too when I compared my Alto, Ozma and Michael but his markings seem to stand out more because of the color of the valk. I don't have Luca but from what I saw of the those three they were pretty much even, exception being the big ass skull on Ozma's back.

-b.

[MacrossJunkie]

I hope Bandai is just about done milking the VF-25 mold. I'm quite ready to see a DX VF-171 or -27 made.

[alvaro]

how could they miss out the important missile parts for vf messiah in first released, to realise they moved it to ghost2. start losing the tradition macross ways. skip for blood suckers.

[Talonvar]

They'll probably still make the VF-25 cannon fodder . . . ! Not done milking it yet

[Salamander]

Great. Just received my Armoured Ozma, and I think I've got to take back my defense of this line in this thread.

Missing the neck extension, and two of the armour parts are the same instead of each other's opposite. :angry:

Waiting for HLJ's response now.

[captain america]

I just got my armored OZUMA today as well. Might anyone have a link to some english instructions on how to transform and add the armor properly? So far all I've got is a big floppy mess, and the backpack with the armored parts just hangs really loose and unsupported

[VF5SS]

You might have a defective toy where the locking nubs for the wings are too small or worn down.

[jenius]

I just added the armor to mine for the first time, the locking nubs for the wings took a tremendous amount of effort. My advice, don't put on the missile bays on the legs, the hip pieces with removeable armor, or just about anything else. Get the main leg armor together and then try to lock the wings to the legs. After that you can worry about fitting on the rest of the armor when everything is locked together nice and snug.

[captain america]

I just added the armor to mine for the first time, the locking nubs for the wings took a tremendous amount of effort. My advice, don't put on the missile bays on the legs, the hip pieces with removeable armor, or just about anything else. Get the main leg armor together and then try to lock the wings to the legs. After that you can worry about fitting on the rest of the armor when everything is locked together nice and snug.

I'm guessing that you're discussing putting the armor on in Fighter mode. I thought that the Battroid mode was a challenge, but that's nothing compared to the Fighter: it seems virtually impossible to get that mode right. The armor on the lower legs is so bulbous that it pushes the aft upper fulelage upward, making allignment with the LEX peg almost impossible, short of bending or breaking something--and don't get me started on the forearm armor, which falls off if you so much as look at it wrong. Even if I could read Japanese, I'd say that the instruction book is way too small and woefully inadequate to properly address the transformation and armor placement.

Without all that armor, the transformation is actually very good and solid, which leads me to think that the heavy armor was a poorly designed afterthought. For a toy that costs $200+, I expect way more than the sub-standard junkpile that BANDAI delivered.

[jenius]

Yes, I was talking about fighter mode. I went strictly by the instructions the toy came with (which shows the armor being applied in fighter mode) and I knocked off most the armor trying to get the wing nubs to stick in the leg armor. I also knocked off the arm armors several times but again, knowing what I do now I'd probably just put them on last which is a bit tricky but do-able and way less frustrating than knocking them off constantly. I haven't transformed the toy into the other modes, and I scratched some paint putting the armor on in this mode.

[captain america]

Yes, I was talking about fighter mode. I went strictly by the instructions the toy came with (which shows the armor being applied in fighter mode) and I knocked off most the armor trying to get the wing nubs to stick in the leg armor. I also knocked off the arm armors several times but again, knowing what I do now I'd probably just put them on last which is a bit tricky but do-able and way less frustrating than knocking them off constantly. I haven't transformed the toy into the other modes, and I scratched some paint putting the armor on in this mode.

I think that one BIG problem in the instructions is that, when they discuss adding the massive lower leg armor in Fighter mode, they totally neglect to inform you that the leg needs to be bent into a flattened-out s-shape, nor do they tell you how many "clicks" at the hip or knee are necessary to get the desired angle so that parts will mate properly. Even refering to the pictures, they deceptively show the armor being added to the leg while it appears completely straight. That glaring oversight leads to the user man-handling the toy, and results in virtually every other piece of armor to be shaken off in the frustrating attempt to get things to "lock" into place.

To be fair, I think that the blame for the shortcomings of the VF-25 (as a toy and a design) need to be shared between Bandai and Kawamori: the latter, based on my studying of his designs, seems to like fleshing-out rough concepts, but does not seem able or willing to put in the extra work as the creator/designer to make things actually work in three-dimensions, prefering to give his concepts a more etereal quality...Which is nice, but does a tremendous dis-service to his business associates (BANDAI) who have to struggle to bring those ethereal designs into three dimensions.

The F/A VF-25 really is an awesome design; very much inspired by the EX-S Gundam (which is probably why I like it) but truth be told, Kawamori is no Hajime Katoki.The latter's design was/is actually feasible in three dimensions, and conceived 20-ish years before the Messiah... A Messiah that, even in its 2-D state, has arms and legs that almost magically migrate from point A to point B, and a cockpit located in the mecha's a$$, rotated 270 degrees out-of-whack.design problem, anyone?

Anyway, I'd better get my asbestos underwear on, in preparation for the flaming that is sure to follow my speaking-my-mind.

[ff95gj]

To be fair, I think that the blame for the shortcomings of the VF-25 (as a toy and a design) need to be shared between Bandai and Kawamori: the latter, based on my studying of his designs, seems to like fleshing-out rough concepts, but does not seem able or willing to put in the extra work as the creator/designer to make things actually work in three-dimensions, prefering to give his concepts a more etereal quality...Which is nice, but does a tremendous dis-service to his business associates (BANDAI) who have to struggle to bring those ethereal designs into three dimensions.

Isn't it since M0 the designs are already done (or at least verified) with CAD? I think I've heard it somewhere...

And have you tried assembling a VF-25 model kit? A VF-25 is certainly feasible in 3D with good proportion.

[captain america]

Isn't it since M0 the designs are already done (or at least verified) with CAD? I think I've heard it somewhere...

And have you tried assembling a VF-25 model kit? A VF-25 is certainly feasible in 3D with good proportion.

If the VF-25 design was all done on computer as you seem to suggest, why does the 1/72 model's proportions differ from those of the 1/60 toy? Things like hinges I can understand being beefed-up for a toy, but there are many, many variances in overall proportions between the two that lead me to think that the design wasn't quite the virtual perfection some think it to be.

I seem to recall that there was still a small amount of "cheating" involved with the Mac Zero transformables, even with computers being used. Besides, a computer is just a tool: the Gundam EX-S Sentinel was designed with computing power that is 20+ years obsolete, but they still managed to make it work as a physical model. Sadly, sometimes people use technology as a crutch to compensate for a lack of artistic talent, I see that all the time.

As for the VF-25 model kit, that's a whole other ball of wax, since you can simply build it in the mode you want. A friend of mine broke his kit while trying to transform it, and I've handled a basic kit without armor myself, and it all but falls apart even if you try to transform it gently. If I were just some regular guy, I could understand having issues like that with a transforming toy, but I'm a pro model-maker with almost 20 years of on-the-job experience. Face it: the Messiah is nice to look at, but it doesn't cut the mustard as a product.

[alvaro]

yah since m0 start badly and mf is the worst they dun even bother to make the flap part for the wings. what they did right is smaller box however the styroform shrugs me.

Edited September 27, 2009 by alvaro

[Bariaburu Faita]

This might help with some of the transformation issues, but the floppy backpack seems to be a problem here also

I just got my armored OZUMA today as well. Might anyone have a link to some english instructions on how to transform and add the armor properly? So far all I've got is a big floppy mess, and the backpack with the armored parts just hangs really loose and unsupported

Edited September 28, 2009 by Bariaburu Faita

[ff95gj]

Let's not discuss how durable the model kit is; we are just talking about the feasibility of the design.

What makes you think a design is not well thought if it can be done in a model kit (which proves it actually works)? Why the 1/60 toy looks far inferior in terms of proportion? It was discussed here before some time ago. Some said lousy work and half-assed effort, some said it's outsourced to a Chinese inexperienced team. Some said it's to abide by some safety rules and sacrifice for durability. Take your pick.

My point was though, if the transformation works in the model, the idea is proven. Whether the idea is executed well on another product is a second story.

If the VF-25 design was all done on computer as you seem to suggest, why does the 1/72 model's proportions differ from those of the 1/60 toy? Things like hinges I can understand being beefed-up for a toy, but there are many, many variances in overall proportions between the two that lead me to think that the design wasn't quite the virtual perfection some think it to be.

I seem to recall that there was still a small amount of "cheating" involved with the Mac Zero transformables, even with computers being used. Besides, a computer is just a tool: the Gundam EX-S Sentinel was designed with computing power that is 20+ years obsolete, but they still managed to make it work as a physical model. Sadly, sometimes people use technology as a crutch to compensate for a lack of artistic talent, I see that all the time.

As for the VF-25 model kit, that's a whole other ball of wax, since you can simply build it in the mode you want. A friend of mine broke his kit while trying to transform it, and I've handled a basic kit without armor myself, and it all but falls apart even if you try to transform it gently. If I were just some regular guy, I could understand having issues like that with a transforming toy, but I'm a pro model-maker with almost 20 years of on-the-job experience. Face it: the Messiah is nice to look at, but it doesn't cut the mustard as a product.

[captain america]

Let's not discuss how durable the model kit is; we are just talking about the feasibility of the design.

What makes you think a design is not well thought if it can be done in a model kit (which proves it actually works)? Why the 1/60 toy looks far inferior in terms of proportion? It was discussed here before some time ago. Some said lousy work and half-assed effort, some said it's outsourced to a Chinese inexperienced team. Some said it's to abide by some safety rules and sacrifice for durability. Take your pick.

My point was though, if the transformation works in the model, the idea is proven. Whether the idea is executed well on another product is a second story.

I consider durability a criteria for design feasability, and I will explain this in more detail.

Let's say, for example, that you take a transforming mecha design whereby all the major body parts are connected to each other not with regular joints, but with only a single 1mm tether. In the virtual world of CAD, the design may work, because you've suspended the laws of gravity. Unfortunately, even if all the sizes, proportions and diemensions are transfered perfectly into a real three-dimensional model, it will simply collapse under its own weight. Now this is an extreme example, but take into consideration that the 1/60 toy is made of ABS and metal, and despite that, parts like the rocket boosters still put quite a bit of strain (because of their size/weight) on the collar, and the hinge joints for the LEX. Now if this is a challenge for something made with ABS & metal, how do you think the model kit would fare when having to undergo the same transformation process, being made of ABS and much weaker styrene?

Anyway, this is the 1/60 toy thread, and that's where my gripe lies, with the toy. The video link that Bariaburu Faita posted just seems to echo my point that the (full armor) toy is a big, fragile disappointment. There are a few things that BANDAI could do to make it better, like redesign the way the forearm armor locks into place, relocate the mounting holes on the lower leg armor, and preferably include a little removeable ABS part that would hold the backpack more sturdily in Battroid mode.

Those would be, at best, bandaid solutions though, since I tend to agree with some of the reasons you cited above, that the toy, unlike the kit, just wasn't really engineered properly from the start.

[ff95gj]

That's surely an extreme case with a 1mm tether. I'd rather go into the practical example that the model transforms well and all (forget the decal rubbing! it's not the point in this discussion). It doesn't collapse.

A problem is that it cannot stand on itself in armored battroid mode - but we know that in the anime the super or armored parts have to be ejected under atmosphere/ gravity, so the design is actually reasonable and well thought.

I consider durability a criteria for design feasability, and I will explain this in more detail.

Let's say, for example, that you take a transforming mecha design whereby all the major body parts are connected to each other not with regular joints, but with only a single 1mm tether. In the virtual world of CAD, the design may work, because you've suspended the laws of gravity. Unfortunately, even if all the sizes, proportions and diemensions are transfered perfectly into a real three-dimensional model, it will simply collapse under its own weight. Now this is an extreme example, but take into consideration that the 1/60 toy is made of ABS and metal, and despite that, parts like the rocket boosters still put quite a bit of strain (because of their size/weight) on the collar, and the hinge joints for the LEX. Now if this is a challenge for something made with ABS & metal, how do you think the model kit would fare when having to undergo the same transformation process, being made of ABS and much weaker styrene?

Anyway, this is the 1/60 toy thread, and that's where my gripe lies, with the toy. The video link that Bariaburu Faita posted just seems to echo my point that the (full armor) toy is a big, fragile disappointment. There are a few things that BANDAI could do to make it better, like redesign the way the forearm armor locks into place, relocate the mounting holes on the lower leg armor, and preferably include a little removeable ABS part that would hold the backpack more sturdily in Battroid mode.

Those would be, at best, bandaid solutions though, since I tend to agree with some of the reasons you cited above, that the toy, unlike the kit, just wasn't really engineered properly from the start.

[captain america]

A problem is that it cannot stand on itself in armored battroid mode - but we know that in the anime the super or armored parts have to be ejected under atmosphere/ gravity, so the design is actually reasonable and well thought.

I would urge you to rewatch episode 2: we clearly see Ozma fly into the city ship (gravity environment) with the full-armor package, fly around, transform, and come to Alto and Ranka's aid... All without ejecting any of the super armor. See for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssDkI6yMR1o

[ff95gj]

You're correct... That's not reasonable for that armored fighter to fly around in non-vacuum.

Still I stand by my argument on the VF-25 design that's it's feasible without concerns for real technologies involved. We all know those kinds of alloy and fusion reactor do not exist... But can heads and arms and legs of those size can fold and transform into a fighter? Yes. Why does the DX toy look so weird in the proportions? I don't know.

I would urge you to rewatch episode 2: we clearly see Ozma fly into the city ship (gravity environment) with the full-armor package, fly around, transform, and come to Alto and Ranka's aid... All without ejecting any of the super armor. See for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssDkI6yMR1o

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Still I stand by my argument on the VF-25 design that's it's feasible without concerns for real technologies involved. We all know those kinds of alloy and fusion reactor do not exist... But can heads and arms and legs of those size can fold and transform into a fighter? Yes. Why does the DX toy look so weird in the proportions? I don't know.

Anyone else think it's probably because of Kawamori's input? TF fans complained after he altered the MP Starscream design and the THS-02 Convoy didn't have the most flattering truck mode.

[eugimon]

Anyone else think it's probably because of Kawamori's input? TF fans complained after he altered the MP Starscream design and the THS-02 Convoy didn't have the most flattering truck mode.

nope.

[Vifam7]

Anyone else think it's probably because of Kawamori's input? TF fans complained after he altered the MP Starscream design and the THS-02 Convoy didn't have the most flattering truck mode.

More likely he found out that making the VF-25 toy was a bit more difficult than he thought. In fact he said so in a Figure Oh article.

[alvaro]

forget to mention its the hardest toy i had to transform. pity it cant pose in alto geisha mode. haha im asking too much.

Edited September 30, 2009 by alvaro