Who is the Best Pilot?

[VFTF1]

Sadly, the duet (and Mari version in general for that matter), is one of the few Macross songs I don't have.

I don't have it either, but the Youtube AMV featuring DYRL and DYNAMITE scenes is really really well done and I like watching and listening to it often.

Pete

Edit: Oh yeah - and just to ...er...be on topic...umm... Basara is the greatest pilot because he can sing a duet with Minmey and fly a Valkyrie at the same time

Edited July 18, 2009 by VFTF1

[Gubaba]

Sadly, the duet (and Mari version in general for that matter), is one of the few Macross songs I don't have.

Well, the duet is a fan-made creation...so if you can grab the youtube video, you've got the "official" version.

But...you don't have Macross the Tribute...?

You're missing out on the awesomeness of Basara singing the SDFM theme? Mylene singing "De•ja•vu"? Ishtar singing "Voices"? "Seventh Moon" done by Mio?

Dude, get that album. It's GREAT!

[Freiflug88]

Sadly, the duet (and Mari version in general for that matter), is one of the few Macross songs I don't have.

The duet is here on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3SJItECuwA...&playnext=1

And you can find practically every Macross OST ever released at:

http://www.macrosshare.com/search/label/Soundtracks

AMEN!

...or should that be...

BOMBA!!!

In Gods name we pray. BOMBA!!!

[d3v]

In Gods name we pray. BOMBA!!!

It's just not the same without the proper formatting (red, size 6, bold, italicized).

Edited July 18, 2009 by d3v

[shadow strikers]

I'm the best pilot, have you seen me piloting I can easily take out max.

[Gubaba]

I'm the best pilot, have you seen me piloting I can easily take out max.

If you fly as well as you type, you'd get shot down immediately.

[Clay Cliff]

Personally, I think Max Jenius is the best pilot, but why Gamlin was not included in the options?

[Ghost Train]

I voted for Isamu: the guy singlehandedly infiltrated the most fortified outpost known at that time - Earth's defense grid, then proceeded to duel against a brain-controlled valk flown via the mind, dodged a hail of AA fire from Sharon Apple, before he could rescue Myung... and to top it off the YF-19 still looked relatively ok following that whole ordeal.

I give Basara runner-up, singing and flying at the same time is no easy matter.

[VF-18S Hornet]

Why the heck is there no Sheryl Nome option? I refuse to vote until such option exists.

Because she sucked at flying and that's why Micheals VF-25 got shot down and the lucky guy was unconscious to notice.

[Solscud007]

It comes up every year or so. Anyway, just like every other year I will state that the Sharon Apple/Ghost X-9 would best any of the listed pilots on a 1 on 1 contest, provided that no ramming or cheap suicide tricks are allowed from the flesh and blood pilots...

I dunno, Luca could unleash his ghosts and he has three, sharon apple only has one.

[kung flu]

Roy Fokker for me

He harks back from a time where men were real men and the buffalo roamed free

[Duke Togo]

But this time will more accurately rank Basara #1!

Macross 7 is like Diebuster... sure, its "canon", but most people do not take it seriously.

Max leads the way, all the way.

[Gubaba]

I voted for Isamu: the guy singlehandedly infiltrated the most fortified outpost known at that time - Earth's defense grid, then proceeded to duel against a brain-controlled valk flown via the mind, dodged a hail of AA fire from Sharon Apple, before he could rescue Myung... and to top it off the YF-19 still looked relatively ok following that whole ordeal.

*sigh* I've been resisting setting up such an obvious straight line, but here goes:

"Yes, but infiltrating earth's defense grid...that wasn't skill, that was just luck!"

[Ghost Train]

*sigh* I've been resisting setting up such an obvious straight line, but here goes:

"Yes, but infiltrating earth's defense grid...that wasn't skill, that was just luck!"

Luck happens to be one of his "skills."

[Gubaba]

Luck happens to be one of his "skills."

Thank you.

[dreamweaver13]

Thank you.

Ah. Then I will again have to argue that when it comes to "luck", Hikaru is the most skilled sumbitch in the macross universe.

[Gubaba]

Ah. Then I will again have to argue that when it comes to "luck", Hikaru is the most skilled sumbitch in the macross universe.

Oh, no way...that's totally ridiculous, I mean, just look at episode...

Um. Uh...

Hmm.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

[mitch]

After thinking it over (probably for too long) I finally voted for Max. He's not my favorite pilot, but that's not the topic of this post. Over the course of SDFM, DYRL and M7 he seemed the best at utilizing the versatility of the Valkyrie platform to it's fullest extent in combat.

Basara, whatever you think of him in terms of personality, was undoubtedly a good pilot, but lacked versatility. Piloting a valk while singing AND playing a guitar is an awesome party trick, and his abhorrence of violence can be seen as noble, but he relies on culture-shock tactics to survive. If confronted by a talented enemy who either doesn't receive audio transmissions, avoids being hit by sound pods, or simply doesn't like listening to 'Planet Dance' over and over again, I wouldn't put money on Basara coming out of it too well. If you can't fight, you can't win. You can only dodge really really well, which admittedly does indeed make him a great pilot. He can fly and perform at the same time, but ultimately his piloting is for survival in battle. Max can survive a battle and strike back at an opponent, which to my mind makes him more versatile.

Plus, if Basara can't sing or doesn't have a guitar at hand he is useless on the battlefield. To that extent his music is a crutch that he needs for peak performance.

I don't think we see Guld actually pilot a valk without using the direct brain interface which I think makes it hard to judge him on an equivalent field with the others.

Isamu I feel should definitely be near the top of the list, you don't put anybody behind the controls of a test aircraft that costs insane amounts of money unless they are at the top of the field. I feel that if we saw him in a Space-War 1 situation we might have a new top-of-the-list, but I'm not convinced from what we saw of him that he's #1. His dog-fights with Guld were legendary, and he survived anti-aircraft fire from the Sharon-controlled SDF-1. If he was doing both at the same time, then I'd feel confident in calling him the best. But he didn't. So I won't.

Also, I'm surprised that Alto got rated higher than Ozma (by a vote), since Ozma definitely struck me as the more talented pilot in Frontier. Both Alto and Shin show great potential, but their lack of experience would automatically put them behind Roy and Ozma IMHO.

[JCSaves]

Don't know where I've been to have missed this thread. Looks like my vote is with the winners.

[Fortress_Maximus]

Isamu I feel should definitely be near the top of the list, you don't put anybody behind the controls of a test aircraft that costs insane amounts of money unless they are at the top of the field. I feel that if we saw him in a Space-War 1 situation we might have a new top-of-the-list, but I'm not convinced from what we saw of him that he's #1. His dog-fights with Guld were legendary, and he survived anti-aircraft fire from the Sharon-controlled SDF-1. If he was doing both at the same time, then I'd feel confident in calling him the best. But he didn't. So I won't.

Also, I'm surprised that Alto got rated higher than Ozma (by a vote), since Ozma definitely struck me as the more talented pilot in Frontier. Both Alto and Shin show great potential, but their lack of experience would automatically put them behind Roy and Ozma IMHO.

Completely agree! I am very surprised Roy and Ozma are not ranked higher. Also I think Hikaru should've been ranked much higher than Ismu and Basura simply b/c of the vast amount of actual space combat he experienced, leadership and the older technology used.

As for other newer pilots like Shin and Alto, I think they both had more potential but Shin in my books wins b/c he really developed his "awareness" of his surroundings and learned the fundamental concept of Bruce Lee's JDK, "adapting/formlessness".

[Ghost Train]

Alto hime perfected the technique of bailing out from his valkyrie in style... damm those new flight-capable exoskeletons.

[Dio]

My vote's for Basara.

There have already been several comments which outline the concept of piloting + performance at the same time, so I won't harp on that.

However, many of the posts fail to recall he DID "shoot" at his enemies, and he did (on several occasions) score "hits" on multiple enemies which the regular fleet valkyries had trouble hitting with live ammo. A speaker pod bullseye is still a bullseye - he could even hit Sivil at a distance, and she's human size.

And let's not forget Speaker Pod Gamma - he flew into the the face of the enemy flagship and blew Gepelnitch's helmet off, which ranks right up there with DYRL Hikaru taking it straight to Bodolza.

[ff95gj]

I am not sure if this has been brought up before... Just that I happened to have watched this episode last weekend...

In the OVA "Fleet of the Strongest Women", which is about the Meltlandi fleet threat, there is an ace Chlore (wh--at a name) who used to be on par with Millia, and she beat up Basara at the start of the episode. There's one statement from Mylene that "even Basara cannot dodge her attack!"

So does that make Max > Millia = Chlore > Basara?

[dreamweaver13]

I am not sure if this has been brought up before... Just that I happened to have watched this episode last weekend...

In the OVA "Fleet of the Strongest Women", which is about the Meltlandi fleet threat, there is an ace Chlore (wh--at a name) who used to be on par with Millia, and she beat up Basara at the start of the episode. There's one statement from Mylene that "even Basara cannot dodge her attack!"

So does that make Max > Millia = Chlore > Basara?

On par with Milla, or second best to Milla? I can never remember exactly.

[Mr March]

I am not sure if this has been brought up before... Just that I happened to have watched this episode last weekend...

In the OVA "Fleet of the Strongest Women", which is about the Meltlandi fleet threat, there is an ace Chlore (wh--at a name) who used to be on par with Millia, and she beat up Basara at the start of the episode. There's one statement from Mylene that "even Basara cannot dodge her attack!"

So does that make Max > Millia = Chlore > Basara?

That's an excellent rationale, but there's also more to support that conclusion. Kawamori has stated in interviews that Max and Milia are in a league all their own so there can be no doubt they dominate. Chlore was said to be very competitive with Milia, suggesting she either equals or sits just below Milia. That kind of accomplishment means Chlore is definitely second only to Max and Milia.

So the top should be 1) Max, 2) Milia and 3) Chlore. One could perhaps debate whether Chlore was better than Milia, but again, I'd defer back to Kawamori who states the Max & Milia are in their own league. Personally, I think Chlore would likely be the closest competitor in skill that Max and Milia could ever hope to face.

[Jack Verse]

My vote goes to Also, simply because when he wants to he actually is a skilled pilot, (Although not as good as Ozma and Roy) who could kick some Vajra tail.

[ff95gj]

My vote goes to Also, simply because when he wants to he actually is a skilled pilot, (Although not as good as Ozma and Roy) who could kick some Vajra tail.

Hmm... You mean, while you think he is not as good as Ozma and Roy, Alto is the best pilot...?

[Jack Verse]

Hmm... You mean, while you think he is not as good as Ozma and Roy, Alto is the best pilot...?

WHat I ment is that for a pilot of his current skiils he is a good pilot, while sometimes he would display skill higher than what he is normally shown to have (ie sometimes he could me as good as Ozma, proof is in ep 14 of frontier where even ozma was surprised that Alto could be better that what he normally displays).

[RDClip]

I haven't been here in a year and there's still reposts of this same poll. Good to see some things never change.

Anyway, the answer is obvious. Max was and is still the best. Some of the stuff he pulled off in combat can never be duplicated by any other Macross pilot to date. Take for example, the M7 episode where they assault the enemy planet (operation: starlight or something) Everyone is having a tough time and Gamlin is even shot down. Then Bam, here comes Max in his VF-22 like a bat outta hell, breaks in, plants the bomb, and cheeses it out of there.(my favourite moment from M7)

and P.S. Why no Gamlin in the poll??? sure he wasnt that great, but comon...

Edited August 31, 2009 by RDClip

[thankheaven]

Sharon Apple and the Ghost X-9.

[ff95gj]

I haven't been here in a year and there's still reposts of this same poll. Good to see some things never change.

Anyway, the answer is obvious. Max was and is still the best. Some of the stuff he pulled off in combat can never be duplicated by any other Macross pilot to date. Take for example, the M7 episode where they assault the enemy planet (operation: starlight or something) Everyone is having a tough time and Gamlin is even shot down. Then Bam, here comes Max in his VF-22 like a bat outta hell, breaks in, plants the bomb, and cheeses it out of there.(my favourite moment from M7)

and P.S. Why no Gamlin in the poll??? sure he wasnt that great, but comon...

I agree for both. Max is obviously above everyone by a good margin (except Millia).

And also that Gamlin deserves a seat in the candidate list. He is a protagonist too after all. And he is considered an ace in his time.

[kabuki_rabbit]

I'd have to go for Roy. I know there's a lot of love for Max, but in reality it's Experience vs Youth.

Roy was the best UN Spacy pilot up until his death in 'Pineapple Salad'. Max would be the best pilot in M7 and if he's still alive (and as young looking) into his 60s, he'd still own pilots like Ozma.

The best male Zentradi pilot was Quamzin, and the best Meltlandi pilot was Milia, until marrying Mr Jenius toned her down a little.

Edited September 8, 2009 by kabuki_rabbit

[ChronoReverse]

It comes up every year or so. Anyway, just like every other year I will state that the Sharon Apple/Ghost X-9 would best any of the listed pilots on a 1 on 1 contest, provided that no ramming or cheap suicide tricks are allowed from the flesh and blood pilots...

Huh.

How about pitting the X-9 against a VF-22 or VF-19 that's fully loaded and piloted by a fresh ace then? The fight in Plus was hardly fair considering Isamu and Guld had just finished a long-ranged fold, went through a harrowing reentry and then endured a grueling duel that had both of them expend most of their ammunition.

Edited September 9, 2009 by ChronoReverse

[eugimon]

Figured this was the right place to have this talk

(1) If this is true then you can admit that you were riffing with an inaccurate interpretation, I only care about accuracy of what the claimed events are.

(2) Indeed. He sent 4, 5 and 6 to _delay_ the attack while they were evading. His words.

(3) Wrong. At least 4 valkyries vector off at his orders. Therefore it must have been sets of valkyries not individuals.

(3a) It's still engaging the first group. It's a real attack afterall.

(4) If both objects are significant on the screen (taking up a sizeable chunk that is) then they're spitting distance of each other. Did you need the debris bouncing off the shuttle or something?

(5) Assuming this is true (which it isn't because the lack of atmospheric interference means that weapons have incredible accuracy), the shuttle was still large on the screen thus point blank.

(6) This is your assumption of the situation and since we were not privy to most of the battle there's nothing to directly refute it. However, we do know that the defense shot down 30 out of 60 pods with the shuttle only being lightly scathed during that time. In DYRL Max was certainly a hotshot and went off to fight Milia, but this isn't so clear in SDF. This particular event however doesn't show any problems in how Max dealt with the attack.

Delay them

Before they started moving

Four planes are seen to break off

This is when the main attack arrives. Max is about to transform his plane here (meaning he's going to fight here)

The debris of the first pod Max shoots down

Moving obliquely past the shuttle

Just before Hikaru arrives Max is still here

A shot of the VF-1J

1. look up the definition of a joke or a rhetorical statement. The point of what I posted was to have a little fun.

Note that there are at least 12 escort planes

2. No, there are lots of planes but it's not clear that they're all escort planes, several of them have only one thruster.

Individual valkyries are always called by number, squads are not called by number designations. So considering how cheaply SDFM was animated whenever there's a discrepancy between what's animated and the script, I'm going to go with a script or are you going to put up a spirited defense of the vf-1r now?

4. Watch the whole scene, there are shots going TOWARDS the shuttle which hit it and there are debris moving in a tangent trajectory which the shuttle never intercepts. If the debris were meant to be shown heading towards or interacting with the shuttle, why not animate it that way since there were other objects on screen at the same time that do?

5. No, it's not point blank. Just because a round can travel unimpeded by gravity and friction doesn't mean it necessarily has more accuracy. The phrase "point blank" or "spitting distance" implies situation where the target does not have a chance to dodge. The scene clearly shows max moving farther and farther away from the shuttle and then at the Distance is still distance and in the very screen shots you provide you can see how small and distant Max's 1j is compared to the shuttle. Oh and notice how he's not with any wingmen. Again.

6. You keep going over his kill count and I never disputed that max is good at shooting things. Please stop trying to "prove" an argument I never made. I was quite clearly making a humorous and rhetorical argument that "ace" is not necessarily the same thin as "good". Where 'good' is implied as the kind of pilot who keeps considers his team mates and mission objectives.

In episode 18 Max similarly goes off on his own and leaves both Kakizaki and Roy alone, coincidentally Roy gets shot down from the sort of enemy fighters that a good wingman would have covered.

[ChronoReverse]

I'm not going to bother to argue after this. You're not even watching the episode in motion and you clearly have an agenda to push. For example, for the rear shot of the planes, you say "Look! Some were only single glow therefore they couldn't be valkyries!", then you go to the part with 4 valkyries flying off and you say "Meh, animation error". Of course, conveniently ignoring how that very same scene has 8 valkyries.

Of course, this also misses how if what you're saying is completely true, 3-5 valkyries managed to destroy 30 attack pods with only minor damage to the shuttle.

As for episode 18, oh yeah, I'm sure YOU would be able to ignore being attacked by the best ace of the enemy fleet to cover your squadron. Especially when the whole operation was to isolate Max just for Milia to fight him. Not to mention how Roy gets hit AFTER he ORDERS Max to bug out.

Edited September 22, 2009 by ChronoReverse