Cyclone Trooper Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) I've been one of the staunch holdouts here on MW who has loathed MacrossF for all its fanboy pandering. That much is no secret. But on a whim (or out of morbid curiosity, I don't know which), I "procured" a copy of the soundtrack...and man, did it make me sit up and take notice! The musical scores are honestly right up there with anything John Williams ever did. Now before anyone scoffs at my comparison, here's why I say this... A great musical score is supposed to illicit an emotional response from the listener, evoking mental images of the action going on in the movie the score is overlayed on. When I watched the series the first time through, I largely didn't pay much attention to the background music because so much visual "eyecandy" was going on onscreen. I'm not talking about anything Ranka or Sheryl performed, but the background incidental music. Scores such as "The Target" or "Zero Hour" are absolutely incredible works of music! "The Target" paints mental images of epic dogfights in space, and even seems to have a similar cadence to Williams' "Imperial Attack" from SW Episode IV. "Zero Hour", to me, is an awesome piece because it was the music playing during the Quarter's captain's speech prior to the final battle. This particular score could have even been used in the original TV series or DYRL just prior to their respective final battles...at least in my opinion. It has an energy to it that invokes images of flight crews preparing for the worst yet carrying on with a heroic spirit. I am amazed at how well-done the entire musical score for MacrossF was done. The soundtrack has more of a motion picture sound to it rather than a weekly TV series. Color me impressed...and a tad surprised. Edited May 31, 2009 by Cyclone Trooper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elektrix Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I've been one of the staunch holdouts here on MW who has loathed MacrossF for all its fanboy pandering. That much is no secret. But on a whim (or out of morbid curiosity, I don't know which), I "procured" a copy of the soundtrack...and man, did it make me sit up and take notice! The musical scores are honestly right up there with anything John Williams ever did. Now before anyone scoffs at my comparison, here's why I say this... A great musical score is supposed to illicit an emotional response from the listener, evoking mental images of the action going on in the movie the score is overlayed on. When I watched the series the first time through, I largely didn't pay much attention to the background music because so much visual "eyecandy" was going on onscreen. I'm not talking about anything Ranka or Sheryl performed, but the background incidental music. Scores such as "The Target" or "Zero Hour" are absolutely incredible works of music! "The Target" paints mental images of epic dogfights in space, and even seems to have a similar cadence to Williams' "Imperial Attack" from SW Episode IV. "Zero Hour", to me, is an awesome piece because it was the music playing during the Quarter's captain's speech prior to the final battle. This particular score could have even been used in the original TV series or DYRL just prior to their respective final battles...at least in my opinion. It has an energy to it that invokes images of flight crews preparing for the worst yet carrying on with a heroic spirit. I am amazed at how well-done the entire musical score for MacrossF was done. The soundtrack has more of a motion picture sound to it rather than a weekly TV series. Color me impressed...and a tad surprised. I'm not really sure why it would come as a surprise that Yoko Kanno would turn out an excellent orchestral soundtrack, given her past work (Turn A Gundam, Macross Plus, even some of the orchestral and incidental stuff for Cowboy Bebop, Escaflowne, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I've been one of the staunch holdouts here on MW who has loathed MacrossF for all its fanboy pandering. That much is no secret. But on a whim (or out of morbid curiosity, I don't know which), I "procured" a copy of the soundtrack...and man, did it make me sit up and take notice! The musical scores are honestly right up there with anything John Williams ever did. Now before anyone scoffs at my comparison, here's why I say this... A great musical score is supposed to illicit an emotional response from the listener, evoking mental images of the action going on in the movie the score is overlayed on. When I watched the series the first time through, I largely didn't pay much attention to the background music because so much visual "eyecandy" was going on onscreen. I'm not talking about anything Ranka or Sheryl performed, but the background incidental music. Scores such as "The Target" or "Zero Hour" are absolutely incredible works of music! "The Target" paints mental images of epic dogfights in space, and even seems to have a similar cadence to Williams' "Imperial Attack" from SW Episode IV. "Zero Hour", to me, is an awesome piece because it was the music playing during the Quarter's captain's speech prior to the final battle. This particular score could have even been used in the original TV series or DYRL just prior to their respective final battles...at least in my opinion. It has an energy to it that invokes images of flight crews preparing for the worst yet carrying on with a heroic spirit. I am amazed at how well-done the entire musical score for MacrossF was done. The soundtrack has more of a motion picture sound to it rather than a weekly TV series. Color me impressed...and a tad surprised. Known this for about a year now. No surprise. I have a suggestion though. Listen to "The Target" and then listen to Holst's Mars. You will notice a few parts in particular that are quite similar. I have no problem with this, in fact I think that Holst's Mars pointed the way for ALL good SF soundtracks, even though it was written way before SF films did have soundtracks. In fact, noticing what you say about John Williams, I would suggest that both the SW and MacF songs you refer to rip off Mars rather than each other. But, once again, thats ok. I think that release-wise, that some of the orchestral stuff from Frontier has not been done justice, as there are STILL a few key instrumental tracks that have not been released on CD yet. They do a dedicated VOCAL soundtrack, how about a dedicated ORCHESTRAL one??? Taksraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Trooper Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 I guess this is a case of opening my eyes (or in this case, ears) for the first time onto something I've previously not allowed myself to enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung flu Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) One of the things that make macross stand out more than any other mecha anime is the sountrack. The story maybe crap (imo) but you can always enjoy the music. From first macross to frontier, music has always been one of the major selling points of the franchise, along with the singing idols, but the story is really not all that great. Edited May 31, 2009 by kung flu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Robot Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 What I also specifically love about Macross Frontier (and Plus) even among the Macross series is the sense of sound direction as well as good music in itself. Everything has its place, everything ties in, as compared to SDFM or Macross 7 where the music was good but often felt thrown in haphazardly, like any of the song list could be substituted in without affecting the flow of the episode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 What I also specifically love about Macross Frontier (and Plus) even among the Macross series is the sense of sound direction as well as good music in itself. Everything has its place, everything ties in, as compared to SDFM or Macross 7 where the music was good but often felt thrown in haphazardly, like any of the song list could be substituted in without affecting the flow of the episode. Well, I think that's normal...for a 36- or 49-episode show, the music MUST be recycled over and over again, or else they're going to blow their budget on music. But yes, Kanno seems to be good about writing a few little pieces that will only get used once or twice throughout the show, which makes it seem less repetitive. But still, there's a lot of recycling of music in Frontier. But hey, it's good music, so who cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross007 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) One of the things that make macross stand out more than any other mecha anime is the sountrack. The story maybe crap (imo) but you can always enjoy the music. From first macross to frontier, music has always been one of the major selling points of the franchise, along with the singing idols, but the story is really not all that great. BLASPHEMER !!! Edited May 31, 2009 by Macross007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung flu Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 BLASPHEMER !!! Well, i've always said in these forums i'm a gundam fan first and macross comes second Macross had better mecha designs and soundtrack, while gundam has the better story. I just can't get my head round the idea of singing to my enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Trooper Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) Well, i've always said in these forums i'm a gundam fan first and macross comes second Macross had better mecha designs and soundtrack, while gundam has the better story. I just can't get my head round the idea of singing to my enemies. Well...here's another way to look at it... What the U.N. Spacy essentially did was use Minmay as a tool of psychological warfare. Once it was established that the Zentraedi and Meltrandi had no real concept of music, art, TV, fraternization, sex, or anything else we humans commonly associate with being "cultured", it was easy for us to demoralize the enemy be exposing them to something they couldn't wrap their minds around. These are giant clones manufactured for a single purpose: warfare. Then you also have to factor in the millennias-old standing order to avoid any "Protoculture" at all costs. This doubly insures that no Zentran or Meltran is "contaminated" by something they are psychologically unable to cope with. In effect, someone's iPod would be like using a WMD against them. Now, in the Gundam universe, sure something like this WOULD sound absolutely ridiculous to you because (usually) both sides fighting one another are roughly the same in terms of the level of "culture" they share. Aside from political ideology, most Gundam adversaries are understandable, no matter what the tech level. So I can see where you're coming from, but as someone who cut his teeth on Macross, I've had many years to see it for what it was supposed to be. Not fully understanding the reasons behind the "Minmay Attack" can make it look a bit silly to those who prefer other mecha shows. Hope that helps at least a little... Edited June 1, 2009 by Cyclone Trooper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Robot Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 A couple of other things people tend to forget with the whole "Minmay singing at the enemy" thing: 1.) It wasn't a weapon in itself, not even something meant to really stop the enemy fleet. It was a quick "distract and confuse" measure which became a viable strategy only when combined with knowledge from Exedol and Britai who had joined Earth's side, detailing just how rigid their command structure was. Specifically, if the flagships of each sub-fleet of the Zentradi were destroyed the ships below would be forced to withdraw, and if the mother ship of the fleet could be destroyed it would be left aimless and leaderless, less likely to manage any sort of organized attacks on Earth. Minmay's performance was a way to get that temporary distraction while human and allied Zentradi forces were able to make directed strikes at enemy leadership. 2.) The singing wasn't even the most shocking part. True, Zentradi found that baffling and distracting, and especially given the main fleet was there to destroy a case of "contamination" by culture they were even more fresh and jumpy. On the other hand, the effect of exposure to music and other cultural effects gained from spies and monitored signals on Britai's fleet was slower and more insidious, making the soldiers gradually wonder if there was supposed to be more to life than fighting rather than making them throw down their arms immediately. It wasn't even until the big battle that the crew of the Macross even knew Minmay or other cultural elements were causing so much turmoil within the fleet. The biggest shock of the performance was instead the kiss - for a race raised with no idea of sexual relations and seeing mere contact between males and females to be an ultimate taboo, it was at once an unthinkable act and something that immediately reached a part of their minds they didn't know existed. Not unlike other aspects of culture, but it was the one that made the quickest, hardest shock in most encounters of the series. Mind, these are all SDFM workings. DYRL is a little different, in that the song worked because it was a Protoculture song that specifically pushed buttons in the Zentradi's genetic memories, and the kiss was even more shocking since in that timeline males and females weren't only strictly separated but had in fact been warring "races" for thousands of years. But the same principle applies - defeating your enemy with song alone was a romanticized simplification of a complex distraction used as a setup for a more straightforward military tactic. In Macross you don't win the war with culture alone any more than with guns alone - in the end you need both. Macross 7.....oh, Macross 7. Yes, it's a crazier sort of show, but even there it was more the psychic/chi powers that were focused by music than the music itself. Similarly in Frontier the key was communicating with the Vajra - given those able to do so were singers, it was music that gave the right push of meaning and emotion to bridge the gap with the alien mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung flu Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I know the singing was a shock tactic and all, but a warrior race reduced to nothing because of love and song, its ammusing and cringe worthy at times Even Exedol singing "my boyfriend is a pilot" is enough to make anyone look away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) There are a few of the orchestral tracks that are just loud, bombastic fun. However, I wouldn't really call the orchestral portions of the soundtrack great. It's about the equal of John Williams, Hans Zimmer, Howard Shore, etc but most of those composers have done better. I found the slower, more unassuming tracks on the Macross Frontier OSTs were much more impressive than the pop or orchestral. IMO, songs like Aimo and Alto's Theme were brilliant tracks and easily the strongest on the albums. It wasn't a terrible soundtrack, but I wasn't blown away by it. Kanno has done better. Her orchestral work in Escaflowne was likely her best. Edited June 1, 2009 by Mr March Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung flu Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I thought the J pop songs in Frontier were great, epecailly "what bout my star" ranka version and Diamond Crevasse. A big improvement from Macross 7 and also some of Minmay's songs imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Robot Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Even Exedol singing "my boyfriend is a pilot" is enough to make anyone look away Oh, that was so totally cringeworthy. Which is exactly why I loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung flu Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Even though the singing concept in macross is hard to believe, I still love the show and franchise ever since i was a kid, it's just that i came across gundam first. Both shows are great in there own way and have believable characters which is the best part in both shows. But soundtrack wise, Macross is the best, if not the J-pop, then the musical scores are brilliant, DRYL being my favourite. I've not heard any musical score in frontier that makes me stand up and listen. The J-pop is what i like in frontier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Even though the singing concept in macross is hard to believe, I still love the show and franchise ever since i was a kid, it's just that i came across gundam first. I'm not really sure why the Power of Love and Song overcoming all is difficult to believe, but the idea that humans born in space will suddenly evolve into a new form of human who will instantly be able to understand others' thoughts is realistic. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I'm not really sure why the Power of Love and Song overcoming all is difficult to believe, but the idea that humans born in space will suddenly evolve into a new form of human who will instantly be able to understand others' thoughts is realistic. Just sayin'. haha. just had to be said, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 haha. just had to be said, huh? Well, anyone arguing that Gundam (at least the U.C. Timeline stories) is realistic need to account for the Newtype theory. Perosnally, it's completely wonky, out-of-left-field stuff like Minmay's singing defeating the Zentradi, Newtypes, and WWII battleship getting refitted as space cruisers that make me love anime. No American science-fiction would ever get away with such bold steps into the realm of the ludicrous. If either Macross or Gundam had been a highly realistic story of war, I doubt I'd be much interested in either. It's the flirtation with the bizarre that makes them great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung flu Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Well, anyone arguing that Gundam (at least the U.C. Timeline stories) is realistic need to account for the Newtype theory. Perosnally, it's completely wonky, out-of-left-field stuff like Minmay's singing defeating the Zentradi, Newtypes, and WWII battleship getting refitted as space cruisers that make me love anime. No American science-fiction would ever get away with such bold steps into the realm of the ludicrous. If either Macross or Gundam had been a highly realistic story of war, I doubt I'd be much interested in either. It's the flirtation with the bizarre that makes them great. Yeah, i agree the newtype theory is a bit dodgy, but the whole concept of a down right dirty war is more believable, and macross did have its moments of war, but the love and song is just too far fetched, at least for me anyway. The newtype thing isn't really all that original either, it sort of copies the the force in starwars. Love and song in macross is totally original, i wouldn't want to take that away from it, unless its really annoying music. If it weren't for the music, macross would just be another mecha show with nothing to distinguish itself from the hundreds of other mecha shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharky Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Cyclone Trooper, I don't think you will get much argument from anyone here as to the quality of the Macross Frontier soundtrack. IMO it is very good and on par with anything in Hollywood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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