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Toy Imports and the Swine Flu Pandemic


Cyclone Trooper
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I'm glad that I live in a country, and am from another country that both have responsible media.

Your lucky, The media in my area has scared the crap out of everyone here that they closed all the schools, on top of that there is a daytime curfew here for kids anyway so they have to stay home but none of the parents can get anyone to watch them while they are at work :angry:

This will end fine for the sick people but I hate to see whats going to happen in the long term socially :unsure:

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Wow...I wasn't intending to do the whole "Chicken Little" thing here. I was just passing along the bit of news about countries seriously considering closing their ports and bringing international trade to a grinding halt. I wasn't exactly trying to sound like a Harbinger of Death! IF some countries had (or will) do such a thing, and Hong Kong or Japan happens to be some of them, then any shipments may be delayed until the crisis subsides. I swear that was all I was saying!

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Case confirmed in tokyo... :unsure: I sooooo don't feel like having diarrhea before finals week.... knowing me i'll probably catch it though... someone say a prayer for me... I can't have diarrhea before finals please lord please :wacko: ...

Edited by Kid_Robot
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This is way too overhyped.

So far, in America, at least, there has been 1 death, and it was a little 2-year old who had gotten it in Mexico, lived in Mexico, and was rushed for treatment in a North Texas hospital. The flu has been here, it's estimated, for 2 weeks.

Every week, 800 people, in America alone, die of the normal flu.

Further, the flu is a virus that does not survive well in the coming conditions of summer. (Note that I know the Aussies are soon to face winter)

Everyone's freaking out about this. Just... Don't go near any infected people with a compromised immune system and you'll be fine. As long as you're healthy and not in North Texas (Pity me?), you're fine.

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The only time this is gonna get out of hand is if there is a sudden increase in cases over a very short time. This would cause the heath services problems with too many people comming in at one time. Despite having enough vacines for flu they'd just not have the man power to get them all administered.

If it then got out of hand it could be an issue due to numbers and the inevitable media fueled public panic.

This would probably make it worse as people go to hospital etc because they think they may have it, and then actually catch it from someone who realy has. The whole system would cascade and lead to the doomsday scenario that the media would so love to have (for sales) happen.

I think we are way of that yet though. More people have probably died this year from Chicken Pox than this flu.

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Just some facts to dispel some of the myths posted in this thread:

*The 1918 flu killed between 20 million and 100 million people. No one knows for sure.

*In the world hundreds of thousands die from the flu every year anyway, but these are mostly weak, elderly and already sick people. This new virus is scarier because it seems to be able to kill young healthy people too.

*A virus can survive up to 6 hours on a surface without a host

*in 1976 a US soldier died from the swine flu and in the panic (thinking about 1918) Gerald Ford ordered the vaccination of every American against the disease. Today there are many people with a crippling syndrome from the vaccine.

So its important today not to underreact (1918) or overreact (1976)

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Just some facts to dispel some of the myths posted in this thread:

*The 1918 flu killed between 20 million and 100 million people. No one knows for sure.

That's right. No one knows. Also, at the time, vaccination was a much less effective practice

*In the world hundreds of thousands die from the flu every year anyway, but these are mostly weak, elderly and already sick people. This new virus is scarier because it seems to be able to kill young healthy people too.

Young. Yes. Very young. She was 2 years old. Healthy? No. She was sickly to start with. Besides, the number of deaths from the standard human influenza virus, which is approximately 800 people a week in the US alone, is a good percentage of healthy people, anyway.

*A virus can survive up to 6 hours on a surface without a host

And then, our nonliving DNA carrier is gone. Let's see, it's an 8 hour flight from Tokyo to SF...

*in 1976 a US soldier died from the swine flu and in the panic (thinking about 1918) Gerald Ford ordered the vaccination of every American against the disease. Today there are many people with a crippling syndrome from the vaccine.

What do you call this crippling syndrome? I would love to know.

So its important today not to underreact (1918) or overreact (1976)

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That "crippling syndrome" is Guillain-Barré syndrome. GBS is caused by an immune response to an infection where the antibodies start attacking nerve tissue resulting in ascending paralysis. usually you get GBS form actual infections, but you can get it from influenza vaccinations on rare occasions as well. GBS from vaccination has an incidence of about 1 case per 1 million vaccinations.

in 1976 their were about 500 cases believed to have been caused by the vaccine (which was administered to some 33% of the population) of those, 25 died from pulmonary complications. no other vaccine has been shown to have this high a complication rate.

I'd also just like to remind that there has been only 20 confirmed deaths form this strain so far.

Edited by anime52k8
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Actually it's now considered that the Spanish flu may have caused hundreds of millions of deaths, deaths not reported in asia and parts of middle and south america.

The healthy young people that died were the early deaths in Mexico, not the kid in texas who did have pre-existing conditions.

the highest known cases of H1N1 in the USA are in NY and not Texas.

The 1976 mass vaccination caused around 500 cases of a neurological condition called Guillain-Barre Syndrome paralysis. It's where the body over reacts to a foreign antigen and ends up attacking healthy nerve tissue. This is an extremely rare condition, 1 out of every million vaccinations.

edit: aw, got beaten to the punch.

Edited by eugimon
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Trying to keep on-topic, one conclussion:

*A virus can survive up to 6 hours on a surface without a host.

And then, our nonliving DNA carrier is gone. Let's see, it's an 8 hour flight from Tokyo to SF...

OK, if its true, no problem with import-export boxes between Asia - Europe/America or Europe/America - Asia, but....

What happens with air-cargo employees???

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Trying to keep on-topic, one conclussion:

*A virus can survive up to 6 hours on a surface without a host.

And then, our nonliving DNA carrier is gone. Let's see, it's an 8 hour flight from Tokyo to SF...

OK, if its true, no problem with import-export boxes between Asia - Europe/America or Europe/America - Asia, but....

What happens with air-cargo employees???

The time that a virus can live outside a host is depending on the virus anything from a few seconds to years.

I think this link will be of use to all who have asked the above question.

Viruses and Microbes

Edited by big F
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Well...after all the usual media overreaction...it was announced over the weekend that this strain of the Swine/H1N1 Flu is nothing more than a "garden variety" and is killing no more people worldwide than a regular strain of human flu. Nothing to fear now...according to a small barely-mentioned blurb on the evening news. The media has since brushed this under the rug and moved on to the next big story. Way to stir up panic where none was needed, Associated Press...all in the name of ratings. :angry:

Edited by Cyclone Trooper
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Well look on the bright side it sold a few more papers and probably got a few advertisers happy with the extraviewers in the Breaks between the two halves of the news programes. Not too many have died also, bet the media are a bit pissed about that. Bad news sells afterall.

Roll on the next media frenzy

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In a sick kind kind of way I'd like just ONE of these OMGWEREALLGONNADIE viruses to actually pay off and kill an assload of people, just so that the panicking wasn't all for nothing.

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Well in some ways it would help with the worlds population issues. Question is though what would it do for the recession ?

Nature is trying to bring us back into balance but our science keeps saving us. Bring on the big asteroid.

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In a sick kind kind of way I'd like just ONE of these OMGWEREALLGONNADIE viruses to actually pay off and kill an assload of people, just so that the panicking wasn't all for nothing.

True... but that is only until we are caught right in the middle of actually experiencing 1st hand the reality. Would probably wish otherwise then.

Anyway, Graham, how are things at Metro Park hotel? After seeing the coverage on the local news, basically the occupants seem more like under house arrest than anything else, and seems that some have slipped out( or is is they were out before quarantine started and decided not to after the quarantine *cough* house arrest*cough* started?)?

Darn... would really suck to be those people right now.... paying so much for a trip only to be cooped up in the the hotel....

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I'm so so sick and tired of this whole pig-flu crap and how in typical CNN-fashion it has turned into a minority-witch-hunt. Our own US homeland security director has stated that the effects of the illness are comparable to that of the normal influenza strains that afflict almost everyone during infectious seasons of the year. Yet we continue to treat this like it's the freaking end of the world.

For some reason, the past 3 times I've been to cnn.com in the last few days, I've seen with 100% certainty on the front page a photo of some Asian guy wearing a surgical mask... now that is not to say that showing the photo of a Mexican person with a mask helps/makes the situation any better, but this is clearly another attempt at that piece of sh!t so called news network to once again put Asians in a negative light - like it has repeatedly done in the past decade.

Today, on Lou Dobbs, the first story that ran was how the evil Chinese government is quarantining certain Mexican citizens in China for showing symptoms of the illness... OH NOW U R FRIENDS WITH TEH MEXICANS!!! HELL HATH FROZEN OVER. He must be extremely happy to see his 2 favorite targets at odds with each other.

Edited by Ghost Train
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Yup, this from the channel that pimps it's "Black in America" to no end but the second they get they're out their sharpening pitch forks and readying the torches when it suits them.

I recognize that informing the general population of a new strain of influenza is in the public interest but the way CNN and some countries have turned this into a power play by running with xenophobia is just really sickening.

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In a sick kind kind of way I'd like just ONE of these OMGWEREALLGONNADIE viruses to actually pay off and kill an assload of people, just so that the panicking wasn't all for nothing.

you know what? I'm more worried about the diseases that until now have been supressed by antibiotics. Once those diseases develop an aminity to our modern cures... flesh eating disease, I'm looking at you!

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you know what? I'm more worried about the diseases that until now have been supressed by antibiotics. Once those diseases develop an aminity to our modern cures... flesh eating disease, I'm looking at you!

yup, the rise of MDR-TB in africa should be a major wake up call.

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How about the mutation of the most prevalent "Zombie virus"? There's a virus, I'm sure some of you know this, that affects white rats, destroying their higher brain functions, destroying their immune systems, causing them to rot, and become canniballistic, mostly seen in Africa. It's estimated that this virus is carried by at least a third of the total human population, but is unable to affect us because its DNA structure does not mesh with our own.

However, knowing how similar Rat DNA actually is to human... It's only one small mutation...

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How about the mutation of the most prevalent "Zombie virus"? There's a virus, I'm sure some of you know this, that affects white rats, destroying their higher brain functions, destroying their immune systems, causing them to rot, and become canniballistic, mostly seen in Africa. It's estimated that this virus is carried by at least a third of the total human population, but is unable to affect us because its DNA structure does not mesh with our own.

However, knowing how similar Rat DNA actually is to human... It's only one small mutation...

Well, I'm sure we can send two white people there to kill all the infected.

Edited by eugimon
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However, knowing how similar Rat DNA actually is to human... It's only one small mutation...

I'm not worried...

i60dw2.jpg

Edited by anime52k8
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Just remember two words............Head Shots!

No blazing away at the body on full auto. Nice aimed semi-auto fire wins the day everytime.

Graham

I'd like to have a game of Resident Evil 5 or Left 4 Dead with you, Graham. B))

No time for head shots.

Edited by wolfx
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I'd like to have a game of Resident Evil 5 or Left 4 Dead with you, Graham. B))

No time for head shots.

hehe, love left 4 dead. nothing beats a well plased pipe bomb and an auto shotty. also miniguns ^_^

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You're wrong. Graham is right.

The most effective weapons to use against the Zombie Horde are an M1 Garand .30-06 caliber rifle and a reinforced stainless steel machete. Single headshot from the M1 will destroy the zombie brain, which might I add is the only way to stop a zombie, and it is a good size for hunting game. The machete can be used to cleave through a zombie neck, minimizing its risk at close range, and it can be used for multiple things. Look at whatever a machete is used for on TV.

Miniguns, which are incredibly expensive and heavy and tend to jam would have no purpose. Shotguns provide stopping power, but can't destroy the brain. And a pipe bomb would do no good unless blasted at the exact right second, and even then you have a maximum of a 20% success rate.

Max Brooks is a smart man, remember this.

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You're wrong. Graham is right.

The most effective weapons to use against the Zombie Horde are an M1 Garand .30-06 caliber rifle and a reinforced stainless steel machete. Single headshot from the M1 will destroy the zombie brain, which might I add is the only way to stop a zombie, and it is a good size for hunting game. The machete can be used to cleave through a zombie neck, minimizing its risk at close range, and it can be used for multiple things. Look at whatever a machete is used for on TV.

Miniguns, which are incredibly expensive and heavy and tend to jam would have no purpose. Shotguns provide stopping power, but can't destroy the brain. And a pipe bomb would do no good unless blasted at the exact right second, and even then you have a maximum of a 20% success rate.

Max Brooks is a smart man, remember this.

Max Brooks is full of himself (I should know, I've got the read the book).

an M1 Garand is the last thing you want to be lugging around in a zombie outbreak of any kind. at anywhere from 9.5 to 13.2lbs it's WAY to heavy to carry long distances on foot. not to mention .30-06 is a terrible round for zombies; besides being heavier per round than equally powerful .308 (which will be more readily obtainable anyways.) both rounds are ridiculously overpowered against zombies. the M1's got a maximum 1000 yard range and only 8 rounds per en bloc. You will almost NEVER need to shoot a zombie at even half that, and if you are shooting zombies at 500 yard you're wasting ammo and giving away you're position. Now take into consideration the high recoil, small magazine capacity, and relatively unwieldy size and you're just asking for trouble in a close range situation (if you're smart you shoot only when you have to and you only ever have to at sub 100 yard distances).

now the ideal gun for dealing with zombies would be a compact carbine along the lines of an SKS or, if you prefer historic firearms, the M1 carbine. personally I like the M1 or M1A1 carbine. At just over 5lbs it's a nice light weapon, and with a 15 round magazine and semi automatic fire it's practical for tight situations and close range accurate fire. the SKS is a little heavier and only has a 10 round fixed magazine, but the 7.62x39 round is a much better choice over .30-06 an both rifle and ammunition or readily available for cheap. Also the SKS can be modified to accept AK-47 magazines and posses a folding strait blade bayonet (and yes the bayonet is legal in the US since it's considered a antique collectible by the ATF

shotguns benefit from being the most readily available weapon and ammunition around, and they will easily take a human head off with the same aiming effort that you would have to put into using a rifle or carbine. Like a Carbine, the average shotgun firing 0 or 00 buckshot is going to be plenty accurate and powerful enough to do the job at the kind of ranges you'll do most shooting.

while shot guns do suffer from relatively small magazines and have rather slow and cumbersome reload operations the fact that the weapon and ammo can be obtained so easily make it a good choice if you don't have time or opportunity to pic up more preferable weapons.

as for the machete, it's good to have (especially if you're in a rural environment) but if you plan to use it often against zombies you're not going to last long. the problem with a machete is that it's not going to stay sharp enough to effectively take down a zombie at close range for very long, it can work but don't think it will take the place of a good pistol at close range. A better all around tool (and I still only recommend this as a last resort option) is actually a crowbar. A crowbar is heavy enough that it's not going to break or bend when used against a zombie and you don't need to worry about it getting dull. the Crowbar really shines in urban environment though, as it becomes very practical for tasks such as entering buildings and vehicles, raiding stores for supplies and taking down and setting up barricades.

on an additional note, always carry a pistol. a pistol is not a primary weapon but is a vitally useful backup and you're best bet in extreme close contact.

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In a Romero (slow mover) zombie scenario, I'd go with a reliable short barreled .223 (5.56mm) rifle with an aimpoint and lots of mags (8-12 mags), probably a surpressor as well to keep the sound down (protect your hearing and not attact so many zombies).

This would be backed up by one or two 9mm pistols, probably a Glock 17 or 34 backed up by either a Glock 19 or 26 for mag interchangeability, The larger of them would be fitted with a surpressor. Other options would be S&W M&P 9mm full size and M&P Compact 9mm. One would be carried in a thigh holster (Safariland 6004 or similar) and the smaller pistol in a shoulder or chest rig. 4-6 full size spare pistol mags would be carried.

All above firearms, would also be fitted with tactical light/laser combo, i.e Crimson Trace laser Grips and Insight Technology M3X lights.

A hand axe and a couple of Sykes Fairbairn type knives would be carried as well (good for penetrating skulls).

Riot armor not ballistic armor wold be worn on the limbs, torso and head. Unlike ballistic armour, riot armor is much lighter and would offer excellent protection against zombie bites.

Gotta say, I've never really agreed with Max Brook's choice of gear either. M1 Garand would be two long for CQB and is very limited with only 8rd stripper clips.

Can't speak for game Zombies, as I've never played much Resident Evil, but in the Romero movies of which I'm a huge fan, you gotta shoot em in the head to take them down.

Graham

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