Robotech and HG License Debates

[VF5SS]

The Touhou Doujin anime had more 2d animation in 30 minutes than all of Shadow Chronicles did in 90 minutes and it's actually good too.

[Gubaba]

The bigger question is who cares what Robotech fans want?

:lol:

Well said, good sir. Well said.

[EXO]

The bigger question is who cares what Robotech fans want?

I'm not really defending Shadow Chronicles, I just want fans to be more realistic in regards to what they are capable of.

100% AGREED!

[Seto Kaiba]

Alright Ginrai, I'm not even gonna argue with you... We're on 2 different arguments... you're defending SC and I'm trying to point out that HG will never live up to their fans' standards.

I don't know about that... prior to the release of Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles the Robotech fanbase was so starved for new ANYTHING that they were thrilled to have even a mediocre film like Shadow Chronicles, and often go to great lengths to defend it. It's not hard to live up to their standards, because their standards are as low as it gets. True, there are some fans who will never be happy with the direction Robotech is taking, but those are usually the fans who could fairly be called closet Macross fans, who are just sticking it out to see what happened to their favorite holdovers from Macross.

But no, it doesn't look as good as ANY Macross production, except for the original SDFM series, the last episodes of MacII, and maybe Mac7. Nor was its story as good as any Macross series (yes, even the ones you hate, whoever "you" may be).

As such, it couldn't live up to the hype, or to what Robotech fans wanted it to be.

While I agree that Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles is inferior in pretty much every way to even the worst of Macross, and that it did fail spectacularly to live up to the fan hype and Harmony Gold's excessively optimistic expectations, it was a new Robotech feature, and that's all most of the fans really wanted.

Hell, even Captain JLS came out and said it wasn't very good.

The only people who were disappointed by the film were the Robotech fans who weren't so desperate for new material that they put aside their standards.

[Einherjar]

The bigger question is who cares what Robotech fans want?

I'm not really defending Shadow Chronicles, I just want fans to be more realistic in regards to what they are capable of.

Hehe, can't argue with that.

Harmony Gold: Robotech can be anything you want it to be... as long as you give us money to keep it going for you.

Edited May 8, 2009 by Einherjar

[Moly_Sigang]

But currently what do fans want Robotech to be, a Macross clone visually but focusing on some random wars that pop up involving Protoculture (flowers) every few years?

They're in dire need of a respectful end to material that's passed its prime in their hands.

Some Robotech fans want to take it a step further by shoe horning the rest of the macross series (DYRL, 2, 7, plus, zero, frontier) into the Robotech storyline.

[Duke Togo]

Some Robotech fans want to take it a step further by shoe horning the rest of the macross series (DYRL, 2, 7, plus, zero, frontier) into the Robotech storyline.

I wouldn't worry about it, HG can't legally do that.

[Roy Focker]

I don't know about that... prior to the release of Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles the Robotech fanbase was so starved for new ANYTHING that they were thrilled to have even a mediocre film like Shadow Chronicles, and often go to great lengths to defend it. It's not hard to live up to their standards, because their standards are as low as it gets. True, there are some fans who will never be happy with the direction Robotech is taking, but those are usually the fans who could fairly be called closet Macross fans, who are just sticking it out to see what happened to their favorite holdovers from Macross.

I think your right about that. Little chance that New Macross projects will ever return to the characters of Macross TV. Robotech was a good chance to see at least Dick Hunter again. Shadow Chronicles did a great job changing his look to something barely recognizable. Even better giving him only 10 seconds screen time.

[Moly_Sigang]

Hey Roy who's this Dick Hunter you're talking about? Rick's evil clone?

anyway, i think it was Kawamori himself who insisted that he won't make a Macross that involves the original main cast. for Kawamori, their story is finished.

[Ginrai]

The Touhou Doujin anime had more 2d animation in 30 minutes than all of Shadow Chronicles did in 90 minutes and it's actually good too.

I don't know what you're talking about, but it sure does not sound like something made by western fans. And I do recall that things like the Daicon videos were made be "fans" who were already working in the industry and such.

[Einherjar]

I've learned not to worry about the fate of Hikaru, Misa and Minmay after the TV series. Hikaru and Misa had a kid and Minmay kept singing, they're all probably someone out there doing okay. The creator just didn't want to talk about them anymore.

Rick, Lisa, and Minmei on the other hand, the more Robotech talked about them the grimmer it got. Rick and Lisa lost a kid and got legally altered while Minmei was never seen on screen again. Admittedly, without the singing aspect surrounding the show Minmei lost all relevance. It can only go downhill from here.

[Seto Kaiba]

Robotech was a good chance to see at least Dick Hunter again. Shadow Chronicles did a great job changing his look to something barely recognizable. Even better giving him only 10 seconds screen time.

Wait, you mean that wasn't Hideo Kuze from Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig?

[taksraven]

How about The Simpsons? Complete animated in S.Korea

When they took the piss out of the Simpsons being produced in Korea during the "Itchy and Scratchy Movie" episode, (where they showed the koreans animating itchy and scratchy at gunpoint), apparently it really pissed off the actual people working on it and they were inclined to suggest that the Americans "animate that section of the film their goddamn selves" Funny stuff.

Taksraven

[Protoculture]

What do Robotech fans wants? Hell, I don't know, LAM (godknowswhenitgonnaberealised) perhaps?

Truth be told, I'm burnout on Robotech thingies .... goin' the way of Cpt JLS perhaps. But still, once a while, I'm gonna posted a few RT fanfics on Palladium Board that long overdue for RT-RPG gamers, kinda like uRRG historical essays & such. But that's it, I guess.

On Macross though, I believed, after MacF movie version comes out, I decided to quit Macross too. Too much fanboyism over Macross ain't that good to one's financial status in the current economic woes.

Over the years, becoming both Robotech & Macross franchise hardcore fans, kinda make me somewhat oblivious to the obvious grandaddy to all thing mecha-wise ... such as Gundam (I hated Gundams franchise with an appalling gusto ... never know why, perhaps because of my Macross-loving prejudicism)

Now I'm going through all the 0079 - 0083 UC Gundam eras, & I'm loving every bit of it. Throw in MS IGLOO 1 & 2, I'm freaking hooked! Damn, so much wealth of story alone can be gleaned from 1 Year War alone. Hell yeah! Sure Sunrise milked the UC era dry, but it were worth it. Now that's what makes Gundam a TOWERING MECHA FRANCHISE from all other mecha series ... Evangelion (influential runaway hit) ... Macross (a steady, moderate franchise) ... amongst others.

No longer me pictured myself as a self-centric egoistic guitar strumming prick in his transformable plane (yeah, BOMMMBBAAAAA ... & all that rot) .... now I pictured myself as a Zeon Zaku pilot crushing helpless Feddie infantries under Zaku's metallic foot.

So, Robotech, final goodbye .... Macross, soon that'll be your turn .... Gundam, here I come!

[Gubaba]

So, Robotech, final goodbye .... Macross, soon that'll be your turn .... Gundam, here I come!

Is it so hard to enjoy more than one thing at a time? No one ever said you had to be monogamous with anime...

[Protoculture]

Some Robotech fans want to take it a step further by shoe horning the rest of the macross series (DYRL, 2, 7, plus, zero, frontier) into the Robotech storyline.

Well, the idea has merit .... given Robotech itself is a hack- ..... uhhhh .... amalgation of 3 different anime series.

Truth be told, me as a Robotech fan, wants Macross Zero (suitably edited ofcourse) & Macross II to be shoehorned into Robotech, given those two titles lackluster storylines. For Macross II, well, I like Macross II, but since Kawamori sweeped it under the rug, it'd be best if someone (HG?) to take Macross II & reinvented the darn thing (it ain't got much love anyway in Mac-verse).

Given Palladium once even hold a license on Mac II, heck, re-incarnated as part of Robotech franchise has merit. Given Big West lackasaidal treatment over Mac II, just jettisoned it over to HG, & let HG worked from there. Whether it worked or not, well we already know HG is the successful hack ... uhhh ... reinvention of anime titles into a franchise.

It is just a wet dream really.

Seriously though, original animated Robotech works sucks donkey arse (as per industry standard, well SDF Macross has it shares too in that dept)! Look at Sentinels, or even sub par RTSC.

RT is only good because it adapted other animes into RT-verse. It should do continuing doing so. RTSC succeeds a little by adapting to MOSPEADA aesthetics. As for future RT works, somehow, getting Macross II adaptation seems plausible. Who knows, either RT going the MOSPEADA route, or outright Macross (darn impossible ... or ... given WB prowess, could it be possible?)

As a Macross fan, well, I do have reservation over the idea. So, safe to say, better for Robotech to go MOSPEADA route, there's tons of pre-production MOSPEADA & SC designs that can be re-used for future RT series, or HG should just bought over the rights to MEGAZONE & acquired awesome mecha designs itself (RT Untold Story notwithstanding).

HG should just remarketed RTSC as MOSPEADA II OAV in Japan, atleast get Tatsunoko to actually 'do their job', with enough funds & garnering interest, Tatsunoko could just recommissioned new 26 ep of MOSPEADA II for runaway broadcast (like its cousin, BGC 2040). Get Shinji Aramaki & Hideki Kakinuma onboard, plus a compulsory Korean studio to do the animation (obviously DR Movie for RT connection) & some sponsors, wallahhh, new MOSPEADA series in the offering.

After the series ended its run in Japan, HG could just re-edited 'em into new Robotech series! To top it off, while waiting for RTSC sequel, HG could do a pet project for fans by repackaging / readapting MOSPEADA Love Live Alive as a ROBOTECH Love Live Alive (Lancer's songs way better than RT Minmei) just for the sake that RT still kickin' ....

I even peddled the idea several times at RT.com, but even Kev or any of the Yun / Yune didn't ever heeded it ... ahh well, its their franchise alright. Who am I to complaint, right? Atleast I still have Macross to laid back too, & Gundam as my new fixation. Any other RT fan would've gone over Doug Bendo or that pie guy level, I guess.

[Protoculture]

Is it so hard to enjoy more than one thing at a time? No one ever said you had to be monogamous with anime...

Well, given my fixation over Macross, Mospeada & Robotech, well, it hardly a monogamous relationship. Thanks to both Macross & Robotech relation, I managed to scoured hidden gems like SDC Orguss, in extension, BGC & MEGAZONE 21.

Now I'm gonna start another triangular (now's that Mac F fixation!) with Gundam UC (limited it from 0079 - 0083), Patlabor (hell yeah!) & BGC 2040 .....

[Protoculture]

Back to Robotech again, I've stopped going to RT.com for a while, a few times lurking only in threads where Setokaiba & Blackrose whacked ignorant & overzealous RT fans (for whatever reasons, that was amusing .... ahhh, me turning into ol' cynic prick ... told ya' fixation over Macross ain't that good).

Kinda bored & tired, with that side goin' nowhere, atleast RT section at Palladium Board showed much better promise than nonsensical blurbs & substandard postings at RT.com.

Heck, I spend more time perusing on MW than RT.com for the past 5 years or so!

[Wanzerfan]

I wasn't being sarcastic...I really have no idea what you're talking about. I haven't watched much Robotech since '85 or '86 (every once in a while, I would let my Robotech Perfect Collection videos go on past the Japanese-subbed episodes, but I could never watch for long).

So I don't remember who Jonathan Wolff is or why it matters whether he was on the SDF-1 or in New Albuquerque, nor do I understand why THAT was the breaking point for you to turn against Robotech.

For me, the argument against Robotech (and HG) can be summed up in three simple points:

1. What they did to Macross.

2. What they did to Macross merchandise.

3. Shadow Chronicles.

I was talking about what Harmony Gold did to the franchise with the recent comic books. I really dug the Eternity line of comics. When Wildstorm publishing got ahold of the franchise, they basicly made sure those Eternity stories never happened, i.e. removed from cannon. I hate to see a perfectly good story go to waste.

Johnathan Wolff was the Robotech character in the New Generation that betrayed humanity to the Invid. He was killed at the end of that particular episode screaming first his family's then Minmei's name. In the Sentinels, he led the Hovertank platoon known as the Wolff Pack (he's the one with the black mustache).

The Malcontent Uprisings comic line really bridged the Macross and Southern Cross storylines nicely.

Edited May 8, 2009 by Wanzerfan

[RavenHawk]

I was talking about what Harmony Gold did to the franchise with the recent comic books. I really dug the Eternity line of comics. When Wildstorm publishing got ahold of the franchise, they basicly made sure those Eternity stories never happened, i.e. removed from cannon. I hate to see a perfectly good story go to waste.

Johnathan Wolff was the Robotech character in the New Generation that betrayed humanity to the Invid. He was killed at the end of that particular episode screaming first his family's then Minmei's name. In the Sentinels, he led the Hovertank platoon known as the Wolff Pack (he's the one with the black mustache).

The Malcontent Uprisings comic line really bridged the Macross and Southern Cross storylines nicely.

I really liked those old comics. Kind of made it make a little sense how the heroic character changed into the one seen in New Gen/MOSPEADA, and also how his home life deteriorating affected his relationship with women.

Let's be clear on one thing though: In those Wildstorm comics, it wasn't Wildstorm that made sure that the Eternity stuff never happened. It was Harmony Gold making sure that Eternity never happened. Wildstorm just published what they were given by Tommy et al.

[Einherjar]

Was Johnathan Wolff just a one-time character they decided to expand in the Robotech universe like Dr. Emil Lang and Lazlo Zand?

[Bri]

This really illustrates what I dislike about Robotech. It's a dub and editing job with a different name, not a real piece of creative work. What was good in RT, was good in the original counterparts already.

Time has moved on. Since the anime boom of the late 90s anime fans increasingly disapprove of "westernising the original work". With that change any chance of rebuilding Robotech is dead in the water, even if HG managed to buy a few more licenses for a new hack job. Sure RT was cool and fresh in the 80s now all that remains is a sense of nostalgia and a few obessed fans. Trying to reanimate this dead corpse ended up with Frankenstein offspring like the Wildstorm comics and Shadow Chronicles.

Wish HG'd just give up and sell their anime licenses to ADV and RT.com to a psychotherapist.

[RavenHawk]

Was Johnathan Wolff just a one-time character they decided to expand in the Robotech universe like Dr. Emil Lang and Lazlo Zand?

Pretty much, though even in the original MOSPEADA he had a decent amount of backstory to him.

[Xeros]

I wouldn't worry about it, HG can't legally do that.

This is of common knowledge, but in favor to the real facts I think this could be useful

http://web.archive.org/web/20040806174222/...ents/index.html

[Bri]

This is of common knowledge, but in favor to the real facts I think this could be useful

http://web.archive.org/web/20040806174222/...ents/index.html

Wow, nice find. It may not be news but it confirms what we could only assume before.

[taksraven]

Here is an interesting question. How did people here first find out about the true nature of Robotech, and the fact that it was made up of three unrelated series?

I found out by reading an article in Starlog magazine, when they did a special about "Japanimation" spread over two issues. It was in that article that I read the Robotech comprised three unconnected series, and it mentioned the HG plans at the time to commission a further 175 episodes to bridge the gap between the three show.

(Actually, if anybody has that ancient article or scans of it, I would love to see it again.)

Taksraven

[Wanzerfan]

This really illustrates what I dislike about Robotech. It's a dub and editing job with a different name, not a real piece of creative work. What was good in RT, was good in the original counterparts already.

Time has moved on. Since the anime boom of the late 90s anime fans increasingly disapprove of "westernising the original work". With that change any chance of rebuilding Robotech is dead in the water, even if HG managed to buy a few more licenses for a new hack job. Sure RT was cool and fresh in the 80s now all that remains is a sense of nostalgia and a few obessed fans. Trying to reanimate this dead corpse ended up with Frankenstein offspring like the Wildstorm comics and Shadow Chronicles.

Wish HG'd just give up and sell their anime licenses to ADV and RT.com to a psychotherapist.

Yeah, I would love to see the franchise back in Carl Macek's hands, anyway. The Three "Musketeers" that run HG really have ruined it, in my opinion.

[Beltane70]

I don't know if I still have it, but I know the exact issue that you're talking about, tak! That article was exactly where I learned about the true nature of Robotech. That article is also where I first heard of Gundam and Urusei Yatsura.

[Seto Kaiba]

Here is an interesting question. How did people here first find out about the true nature of Robotech, and the fact that it was made up of three unrelated series?

I heard about Robotech being made from three different shows before I even started watching... the friend who got me started on it gave me a heads-up before he lent me the tapes.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Wanzerfan]

Here is an interesting question. How did people here first find out about the true nature of Robotech, and the fact that it was made up of three unrelated series?

I found out by reading an article in Starlog magazine, when they did a special about "Japanimation" spread over two issues. It was in that article that I read the Robotech comprised three unconnected series, and it mentioned the HG plans at the time to commission a further 175 episodes to bridge the gap between the three show.

(Actually, if anybody has that ancient article or scans of it, I would love to see it again.)

Taksraven

The three series were Super Dimentional Fortress Macross, Super Dimentional Cavalry Southern Cross, and Genesis Climber Mospeda. The first two shows were a part of an unrelated trilogy of shows known as the Super Dimentionals (the third was Super Dimentional Century Orguss). All three shows were produced by Tatsunoko Studios, a subsidary of Big West. The sereis that was going to bridge the three unrelated series together was Robotech II: The Sentinels (also to be done by Tatsunoko); a show that only had enough money to have three episodes made until the U.S. Dollar tanked against the Yen, and when that happened, Matchbox bailed on the project.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Wanzerfan

[Einherjar]

Yeah, I would love to see the franchise back in Carl Macek's hands, anyway. The Three "Musketeers" that run HG really have ruined it, in my opinion.

Would you really want to see all the content from the novels animated?

Anyway, I have an Animerica issue talking about Macross and Robotech separately from 2000-2001. It was more in favor of Macross but treated Robotech well due to nostalgia (They mentioned Macross Zero for the first time in the U.S. I think). Before then I had only heard rumors online and from high school friends.

[Wanzerfan]

Also, lets not forget the failed attempt to tie in Robotech in with Exo Squad. When Season three of Exo-Squad failed to even get out of production, pissed would not even begin to describe the word in representing my feelings on that subject.

Another reason I don't trust Harmony Gold.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Wanzerfan

[EXO]

Here is an interesting question. How did people here first find out about the true nature of Robotech, and the fact that it was made up of three unrelated series?

I found out by reading an article in Starlog magazine, when they did a special about "Japanimation" spread over two issues. It was in that article that I read the Robotech comprised three unconnected series, and it mentioned the HG plans at the time to commission a further 175 episodes to bridge the gap between the three show.

(Actually, if anybody has that ancient article or scans of it, I would love to see it again.)

Taksraven

I knew before watching the original airings that it wasn't all the same show. Having watched anime in the Philippines then coming here and seeing how they changed stuff all the time (Mazinger>Tranzor, Gachaman>Battle Of The Planet) it didn't even phase me. I had the toys before, the 1/100 bootlegs with the weird guns, later on the Takatokus, before the show aired. And then in the opening sequence you see a lot of robots and characters that they never showed during the Macross Saga so you kinda had the feeling something was up. And by the time the Southern started, that first episode with Max and Miria editted in, pretty much solidified what I thought they were doing. No clue at the time why, but there were so much shenanigans with animes back then that you just shrug it off... It wasn't until I came here to MW that I realized that people are angry over it.

[RavenHawk]

Also, lets not forget the failed attempt to tie in Robotech in with Exo Squad. When Season three of Exo-Squad failed to even get out of production, pissed would not even begin to describe the word in representing my feelings on that subject.

Another reason I don't trust Harmony Gold.

They were actually never going to be connected together. The toys from Robotech were just rereleased with the ExoSquad name because they looked similar ENOUGH to fit in, but it was never going to go beyond toys.

I know where you're coming from, since I assumed they were going to connect the shows, and the new aliens who showed up at the end of season 2 would be Robotech-related.

I read an interview with writers from ExoSquad not too long ago and they confirmed that these aliens were to be completely new. They were never going to have a connection to Robotech whatsoever.

Harmony Gold's activity was minimal, if any at all, just dealing with the toys, which might in reality have been all Matchbox and not Harmony Gold at all.

[JB0]

The three series were Super Dimentional Fortress Macross, Super Dimentional Cavalry Southern Cross, and Genesis Climber Mospeda. The first two shows were a part of an unrelated trilogy of shows known as the Super Dimentionals (the third was Super Dimentional Century Orguss). All three shows were produced by Tatsunoko Studios, a subsidary of Big West. The sereis that was going to bridge the three unrelated series together was Robotech II: The Sentinels (also to be done by Tatsunoko); a show that only had enough money to have three episodes made until the U.S. Dollar tanked against the Yen, and when that happened, Matchbox bailed on the project.

Tatsunoko's NOT a subsidiary of Big West.

They're a separate (larger) company. And Big West produced SDF Macross, hiring Tatsunoko for help when it became obvious they couldn't meet their schedule with the manpower they had, and offering up international distribution rights when it became obvious they needed mroe help than they could afford to pay for.

Anyways.... I didn't learn about the difference until the late 90s, when I gained access to the glorious wonder of the modern world known as the internet.

Edited May 9, 2009 by JB0