Robotech and HG License Debates

[taksraven]

Here's something that's bugged me recently; what's the fandom's impression on characters with mixed genetic ancestries like Dana and Maia Stirling or good aliens in general? On general and RPG discussions it's kind of weird to see people use "half-caste" or "half-breed" to describe half human and Zentradi characters and possibly others with similar backgrounds. Even for a fictional show aren't those terms kind of offensive these days, especially with what's happened in Macross up to this point? I thought hybrid was a more polite and scientific word to use instead.

I wouldn't get too worked up about it, I can think of ways and words of describing it that are far worse....

Taksraven

[taksraven]

Just an interesting comparison. On the wikipedia Macross page, Robotech is mentioned once, on the Southern Cross page it is mentioned fifteen times, and on the Mospeada page it is mentioned twenty-two times.

Time to pull the thumb out, Southern Cross and Mospeada boys and girls, and protect your franchise.

Taksraven

(I didn't count the number of times that RT is mentioned in the RT box that some person has been kind enough to insert at the bottom of both the Southern Cross and Mospeada pages.)

[Einherjar]

Some fans seem to be speculating that Minmei could turn Korean... I wonder if that would be a problem...

Race doesn't bother me, age does. Especially when they're paired with someone significantly older, it starts to taste like diabetes.

EDIT: ("It's still a felony!")

Edited June 26, 2009 by Einherjar

[Freiflug88]

("It's still a felony!")

According to Article 134 Uniform Code of Military Justice - UCMJ

"Carnal knowledge is a violation of this article. Indecent acts or liberties with a

person under the age of 16. The punishment for Carnal knowledge is a dishonorable

discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, reduction to the lowest enlisted grade, and

confinement for 15 years."

So the funny thing is that in the SDF Macross timeline its not a military crime for 19 year old Misa to do 16 year old Hikaru before he even joined the military, but if Hikaru did Minmay before she turned 16 after becoming a pilot he would face military confinement for 15 years.

For MDYRL though they got smart and retconed the timeline to 2011 to make even Minmay 18 so that no one would cry "It's still a felony!" when he tried to take her to the love hotel.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Gubaba]

For MDYRL though they got smart and retconed the timeline to 2011...

Hmm? No they didn't...

[Freiflug88]

Retconed was probably the wrong word, but I do remember reading that the events portrayed in Macross DYRL to takes place in 2011 in the Macross timeline making all the characters 2 years older then they were in the 2009 series timeline.

On another note I was also thinking since Macross II is considered a parallel Macross universe with no plans of a sequel or any new merchandise perhaps WB should try obtaining the rights to use the Macross II designs in the LAMR. I am sure BW would be much more willing to license rights for Macross II then any other Macross.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Einherjar]

Retconed was probably the wrong word, but I do remember reading that the events portrayed in Macross DYRL to takes place in 2011 in the Macross timeline making all the characters 2 years older then they were in the 2009 series timeline.

Where do you get your info?

[Gubaba]

Retconed was probably the wrong word, but I do remember reading that the events portrayed in Macross DYRL to takes place in 2011 in the Macross timeline making all the characters 2 years older then they were in the 2009 series timeline.

No, it isn't It's set in 2009, same as the series. They retconned everyone's birth years, not when the story happened.

[Freiflug88]

No, it isn't It's set in 2009, same as the series. They retconned everyone's birth years, not when the story happened.

Whatever, my point wasn't about what was retconned the birth years or the timeline, it was that in DYRL Hikaru and Minmey were made to be the consenting age of 18 unlike the series.

[MilSpex]

While we are at it lets ask WB to make a Live Action adaption of the Robotech Sentinels Winter Wonderland Comic

huh? Is that supposed to be Minmay? Asian girls have no muscle definition and generally couldn`t be in a female body building contest.

[Freiflug88]

Where do you get your info?

Wikipedia

huh? Is that supposed to be Minmay? Asian girls have no muscle definition and generally couldn`t be in a female body building contest.

Its lifestyle over genetics. Apparently everyone in Robotech weight lifts and bulks up while the people of Macross slouch around enjoying culture and listen to music.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Einherjar]

Whatever, my point wasn't about what was retconned the birth years or the timeline, it was that in DYRL Hikaru and Minmey were made to be the consenting age of 18 unlike the series.

What does this have to do with Robotech, Miley Cyrus/tweener actors, and the LAMR? Does it make it any easier to stomach to cast her in a live action movie?

[Freiflug88]

What does this have to do with Robotech, Miley Cyrus/tweener actors, and the LAMR? Does it make it any easier to stomach to cast her in a live action movie?

It was just a funny FYI to show that the guys at Big West must have been having similar thoughts about ramifications of portraying tweens in a romantic relationship with implied sexual content in a threatrical movie, so they simply changed the ages of the characters to 18.

I would say that keeping in mind that the main Robotech charaters started the series as young as 15, but matured over the show should make it easier to stomach a cast of tweener actors though. Keep in mind that tween actors would also be going though puberty and grow in the gaps between the productions of the Live action Robotech trilogy so by the time the third Robotech film is made Miley Cyrus would probably be close to 20.

[Seto Kaiba]

Whatever, my point wasn't about what was retconned the birth years or the timeline, it was that in DYRL Hikaru and Minmey were made to be the consenting age of 18 unlike the series.

Considering the age of consent is lower over there, I think that was probably more to facilitate the changed backstory, where Hikaru was already a soldier and Minmay already famous when the two met, rather than a way to dodge accusations of them being too young.

huh? Is that supposed to be Minmay? Asian girls have no muscle definition and generally couldn`t be in a female body building contest.

Yep, that's what Minmei looks like in the Sentinels comics. Ugly, isn't it?

Unfortunately, she's not alone in having been turned from a slender woman into some buxom bodybuilder... pretty much all the women in the Sentinels comics looked like that.

[Freiflug88]

Considering the age of consent is lower over there, I think that was probably more to facilitate the changed backstory, where Hikaru was already a soldier and Minmay already famous when the two met, rather than a way to dodge accusations of them being too young.

You do have a good point with the changed back story. It also occured to me that before Minmay became a star and Hikaru a soldier they were practically no pictures of them for the fictional filmmakers of the DYRL in the macross universe to tell what they even looked like.

The lower age of consent in Japan isn't entirely true though as each Prefecture of Japan can have their own laws on consent so the age of consent varies from 13-18 depending on where you are in Japan.

[Keith]

Whatever, my point wasn't about what was retconned the birth years or the timeline, it was that in DYRL Hikaru and Minmey were made to be the consenting age of 18 unlike the series.

Nope, only the desigsn were changed, the timespan is exactly the same. 2009-2011 for SWI

[VF5SS]

Robotech Minmay is also pretty half baked.

[EXO]

[Freiflug88]

Lol! Is that a Macross doujin or is that actually from the Macross 7 trash manga or something?

Robotech Minmay is also pretty half baked.

She'll feel like herself again

When she shoots all her heroin

In one big blast from!

In one big shot from!

In one big blast from!

In one big shot!

From her wave motion gun!!!

Edited June 27, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Jasonc]

Speaking of casts for the LAM, it'll be a hard cast I think. Using A-listers on it is probably not gonna happen, and if it did, the characters may seem a little forced. The best bet for them is to get young, new actors and good look alikes. I've always found it strange when actors that you recognize try to play something they aren't necessarily equipped for. Playing an anime character would be quite strange for a recognized actor. That's where the redeux of "Robotech" needs to come in. Then another problem arises,,,how much of it will actually feel like Robotech? If it's just gonna be some new jet design that transforms to fight some alien race, that's not really gonna say Robotech. I think it's just a bad idea for the movie, but if it's good, and WB could make it good, then even with an outdated and weak title like Robotech, I'd still watch it.

I can't see Minmay being a Miley Cyrus at all. In fact, if that happens, I'll definitely skip the movie and just bittorrent it later on, as that would just be wrong in so many ways.

[Einherjar]

I can't see Minmay being a Miley Cyrus at all. In fact, if that happens, I'll definitely skip the movie and just bittorrent it later on, as that would just be wrong in so many ways.

I agree, who besides tweeners would want to watch Hannah Montana in space war film anyway?

It might be a step up in her career though. From an actress who played an actress playing a singer to an actress just playing a singer, or her messed up self.

EDIT: I'm confusing my tweeners. Miley, Linsey, Vanessa Hudgens, whatever, they'll all end up the same anyway.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Einherjar

[akt_m]

I'm currently at episode 4 of Genesis Climbe Mospeada. I wonder how is the crap Harmony Gold made to fit it with Macross. It is a good series, probably ruined by HG.

[JB0]

Nope, only the desigsn were changed, the timespan is exactly the same. 2009-2011 for SWI

Several of the characters ARE older in DYRL.

Not just Hikaru and Minmay.

Misa, Max, Claudia, Kakizaki, the Bridge Bunnies...

They are not CONSISTENTLY older, though. 1 year

Max and Hikaru got one year older, but Kakizaki gained 6, for example.

Though it should be noted Minmay is 17 in DYRL, not 18.

This post brought to you by free time and Macross Compendium.

[Gubaba]

Several of the characters ARE older in DYRL.

Not just Hikaru and Minmay.

Misa, Max, Claudia, Kakizaki, the Bridge Bunnies...

They are not CONSISTENTLY older, though. 1 year

Max and Hikaru got one year older, but Kakizaki gained 6, for example.

Though it should be noted Minmay is 17 in DYRL, not 18.

This post brought to you by free time and Macross Compendium.

Yeah...I remember one of my first impressions of DYRL when i saw it in 1985 was that it was a sequel in everything but plot. The mecha design was more advanced technologically than the TV show and the characters were older...but the story was a retelling.

Not a bad insight for a kid of eleven...

[Bri]

Ages in anime rarely make much sense to me. Seems like most of the time the characters act like they are 5 years older then their physical ages suggest.

Personally,on gut feeling, I'd put Roy and Claudia around their late twenties, early thirties. Misa: mid-to-late twenties. Max and Millia: early twenties. Hikaru around 20, only character that acts her age for the most part is Minmay, who I'd put between 15 and 18.

Maybe my age perception is off.

[Freiflug88]

Then another problem arises,,,how much of it will actually feel like Robotech? If it's just gonna be some new jet design that transforms to fight some alien race, that's not really gonna say Robotech. I think it's just a bad idea for the movie, but if it's good, and WB could make it good, then even with an outdated and weak title like Robotech, I'd still watch it.

I think the light hearted feel of the Robotech we are familiar with will be replaced with a much more gritter and realistic feel like BSG. The city life in space with a light mood is for Macross, and this is a Robotech movie with dark edgy Hollywood movies being all the rage.

I am starting to think though that the Robotech LAM will be much more like a reimagined Robotech Battle Cry then a reimagined Robotech Macross Saga. HG is always stating that WB has been given access to all the rights to Robotech for the LAM, but they always neglect the important fact that HG can only license the rights they already have and we know If HG had all the rights to the Macross charaters they would be all over the place in Prelude and RSC with their same familiar faces attached to hyber sexualized bodies. With that in mind HG and WB probably have little choice, but to write in new characters with their own stories and then come with some excuse that fans already know the outcome of the Rick, Lisa, and Minmay Love Triangle and that the decesion for new characters was completely a creative rather then legal decision.

They are not CONSISTENTLY older, though. 1 year

Max and Hikaru got one year older, but Kakizaki gained 6, for example.

Don't forget that there is no way Bodolza's age of 125,000 "cycles" isn't consistent with a few human years.

Though it should be noted Minmay is 17 in DYRL, not 18.

Didn't realize that. I guess only the Macross Plus trianle is is complete without using jailbait. Then again I don't know Ishtar's age, but I bet facing Feff after taking Ishtar's virginity would be much worse then a felony charge anyway.

[taksraven]

with their same familiar faces attached to hyber sexualized bodies.

If that is an attempt to combine cyber and hyper, it looks really cool. If it just a typo, it still looks cool. Love it.

Taksraven

[taksraven]

EDIT: I'm confusing my tweeners. Miley, Linsey, Vanessa Hudgens, whatever, they'll all end up the same anyway.

You mean dead??

Taksraven

[Einherjar]

You mean dead??

Taksraven

As long as they go before me, drugs or alcohol related, yes.

Oh hey, Mr. Creepy Flesh-Colored Beard as Lynn Kyle FTW!

[Freiflug88]

If that is an attempt to combine cyber and hyper, it looks really cool. If it just a typo, it still looks cool. Love it.

LOL I didn't even notice. I agree that it looks much cooler spelled this way. What does it take start a new trope on TV tropes.org BTW? I want to see if I can make "Hyber sexaualized body" into THE trope to describe sexy females with artificial/cybernetic bodies like Motoko Kusanagi, Kosmos, and Janice. That way if Dreamworks does produces Ghost in the Shell I can post everywhere "That it isn't Ghost in the Shell until we see the Hyber sexualized body jumping off a building (preferably in the nude)."

[chrisk]

If it's just gonna be some new jet design that transforms to fight some alien race, that's not really gonna say Robotech.

Just be glad Fox isn't doing the LAM.

I think the light hearted feel of the Robotech we are familiar with will be replaced with a much more gritter and realistic feel like BSG. The city life in space with a light mood is for Macross, and this is a Robotech movie with dark edgy Hollywood movies being all the rage.

Tob Rob, the recently hired scriptwriter for RT:LAM, wrote books about child murderer on the loose in a Stalinist Russia, and a follow-up novel based on "...the paranoia and instability of the Soviet Union after the newly installed Khrushchev regime leaks a secret speech laying out Stalin's brutal abuses."

Sounds like the perfect guy to write a fun PG-13 Summer blockbuster! I can hardly imagine the reaction "casual" Robotech fans would have during the AnimeExpo/Comic-Con panels... Sounds like this film won't have humping dogs and giant Robot testicles (unlike some other Hollywood blockbusters...)

I can't see Minmay being a Miley Cyrus at all. In fact, if that happens, I'll definitely skip the movie and just bittorrent it later on, as that would just be wrong in so many ways.

I really can't see how an "Idol" character is going to work in this Robo-re imagining. Maybe if they made it noir-ish, it could! They can hire Chase Masterson...

That is pretty awesome, EXO. Could do one with JANICE the slurmty cyborg.

Edited June 28, 2009 by chrisk

[anime52k8]

Tob Rob, the recently hired scriptwriter for RT:LAM, wrote books about child murderer on the loose in a Stalinist Russia, and a follow-up novel based on "...the paranoia and instability of the Soviet Union after the newly installed Khrushchev regime leaks a secret speech laying out Stalin's brutal abuses."

Sounds like the perfect guy to write a fun PG-13 Summer blockbuster! I can hardly imagine the reaction "casual" Robotech fans would have during the AnimeExpo/Comic-Con panels... Sounds like this film won't have humping dogs and giant Robot testicles (unlike some other Hollywood blockbusters...)

yeah, honestly this guy sounds like the last person that should be working on a project like this. I would not be surprised if he gets dumped and they try to get someone else; although they seem to be at the bottom of the barrel at this point. But until we get some script/production details, I still think this is going to be bay-formers but the robots don't talk.

[Jasonc]

If that's what WB is looking for (a gritty BSG style version of Macross), it may be alright. I just hope they keep it in one direction. TF2 had

very poorly inserted comedy that made no sense, and seemed very forced

, which if Robotech does, can easily backfire. I guess their predicament is, you gotta make this different from the outdated original, changing designs, probably characters, but not detach it so much that it doesn't seem the same. That's their big problem dealing with this franchise I see with the licensing and ownership debate that has plagued all this.

I still think this writer is just another attempt at getting what they're looking for, or at least hoping that he can do something w/ what they got perhaps without paying so much to bigger name writers. I wonder what crap HG is gonna say at Anime Expo with the news of Miller and Gough (I think that's the names) bailing out. Last year, they gloated that it was they who got Kasdan to write, now he's gone. Where's the gloating now??? They just need to stop while they still have fans. They've already lost face, I wonder when they're gonna lose their ass?

[Einherjar]

wonder what crap HG is gonna say at Anime Expo with the news of Miller and Gough (I think that's the names) bailing out. Last year, they gloated that it was they who got Kasdan to write, now he's gone. Where's the gloating now??? They just need to stop while they still have fans. They've already lost face, I wonder when they're gonna lose their ass?

Since people from both camps visit this forum and thread, maybe we should start brainstorming questions people might want to ask HG if they're going to the panels (if none has stood out from here so far). I'll start:

Without a nostalgic speech or PowerPoint Presentation, what have you really been doing for the past year? Not WB, you guys for Robotech?

[azrael]

I still think this writer is just another attempt at getting what they're looking for, or at least hoping that he can do something w/ what they got perhaps without paying so much to bigger name writers. I wonder what crap HG is gonna say at Anime Expo with the news of Miller and Gough (I think that's the names) bailing out. Last year, they gloated that it was they who got Kasdan to write, now he's gone. Where's the gloating now??? They just need to stop while they still have fans. They've already lost face, I wonder when they're gonna lose their ass?

Frankly, writers come and go. They can say, "We agree with this guy's approach to the story.", or "We believe this writer is the perfect fit for the vision we intend to create.", etc....blah blah blah <insert some PR statement>. If this new guy comes out with something they don't like, they pay him for his effort, and throw the screenplay aside and start the process all over.