KingNor Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 (edited) The fact that the VF-0 is considerably technologicaly superior than the VF-1's really really bugs me, does this bother anyone else? they should have made them less fancy in an attemt to actually make the fighter look like a predesessor. this just makes no sence and seems very uncreative. Edited August 24, 2003 by KingNor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isamu Atreides 86 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 i think the VF-0 runs on jetfuel engines, and not nuclear powered ones....that makes the VF-1 a bit more advanced, i think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine23 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Yup. The VF-1 is a far more superior fighter. The VF-0 just looks more modern because of the design elements and the difference in the animation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechamaniac Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 (edited) i think the VF-0 runs on jetfuel engines, and not nuclear powered ones....that makes the VF-1 a bit more advanced, i think... Remember that in episode 1, the mechanic makes reference to the nuclear engines not arriving in time, hence the regular jet fuel engines in the VF-0. Oh, and shouldn't this be in the Movies and TV section? Edited August 24, 2003 by Mechamaniac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander McBride Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 For dog's sake, this topic has been done to death. I sense the approach of mods..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted August 24, 2003 Author Share Posted August 24, 2003 Yeah i did put this in the wrong section, oups. musta clicked on the wrong link and not noticed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Other than looking "neater" there has been nothing in the first two episodes of Zero to infer that the VF-0 is in any way superior to the VF-1. In fact, didn't Nora mention that the VF-0 was a poor ripoff of the SV-51? I still believe that by the last episode of Zero we'll see a new production VF-1 kick some ass, effectively putting the VF-0 out to pasture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manji Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 I still believe that by the last episode of Zero we'll see a new production VF-1 kick some ass, effectively putting the VF-0 out to pasture. Agreed wholeheartedly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UN Spacy Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Well, from the moves that we've seen the VF-0 pull off in the first two OAV's. I can see why you think the Zero has the slight advantage over the VF-1. It certainly looks impressive in the dog fights (when they're not getting their ass handed to them by Nora and D.D.), it's too bad most of the action is too fast to fully be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
007-vf1 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 The VF-0 is way bigger and heavier than the VF-1...agility is definitively a big plus for the VF-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drifand Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 (edited) It's just a matter of styling. The VF-1 was done in the days when the F-14 was the hottest cat on the deck. To appeal to a new generation of viewers who may not have seen the orginal series at all, Shoji has to offer something they can relate to. Hence the more modern styling... Gundam fans have had to live with retcon headaches, now we get the same previlege. It's the price of franchise longevity! Edited August 24, 2003 by drifand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 The VF-0 doesnt loook as advanced at ALL except for the head. The aerodynamic styling makes this thing have muchmuch more drag than the Vf-1 and not to mention it is overbulbous in some places. ZIts jet engine has limits much like the F-14 A's Tf30 engine. in fact i think the VF-0 will mimic the F14A trials and tribulations and the F14B will come in the form of the VF-1...tha plane the VF-0 is suppposedd to be or what teh UN REALLY needed./ Remember the VF-0 is just interim. Also the Vf-1 is more streamlined and has more advanced avionics. in DYRL the VF-1 has a canopy hud while in the V show it has a Normal HUD. The missles used have fins but are internal slide out ones. The VF-0 has fins out. Not sureif this makes more drag as well. The jet engines are another thing. The VF-1 can probably be flown to the limit wihtout worry while the VF-0 would prbably stall out and enter a flat spin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 (edited) Well, from the moves that we've seen the VF-0 pull off in the first two OAV's. I can see why you think the Zero has the slight advantage over the VF-1. Yes, but remember you're comparing modern big budget CG animation to 20 year old Animefriend garbage. Edited August 24, 2003 by bsu legato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted August 24, 2003 Author Share Posted August 24, 2003 Yes, but remember you're comparing modern big budget CG animation to 20 year old Animefriend garbage. That's a horrible excuse. this all reminds me of the road Final Fantasy went down. it started out as a story driven franchise that happend to have nice visuals. Now-a-days everything becomes secondary to the eye candy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy438 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Other than looking "neater" there has been nothing in the first two episodes of Zero to infer that the VF-0 is in any way superior to the VF-1. In fact, didn't Nora mention that the VF-0 was a poor ripoff of the SV-51? I still believe that by the last episode of Zero we'll see a new production VF-1 kick some ass, effectively putting the VF-0 out to pasture. I agree completely, and considering the 1/48 Low Vis VF-1A has a Zero style pilot figure, one can only imagine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Yes, but remember you're comparing modern big budget CG animation to 20 year old Animefriend garbage. That's a horrible excuse. this all reminds me of the road Final Fantasy went down. it started out as a story driven franchise that happend to have nice visuals. Now-a-days everything becomes secondary to the eye candy. How the heck does that analogy apply to Macross Zero? So far the Mac 0 story is totally character driven, despite all the pretty CGI. bsu legato's point is very valid. A VF-1 in full CGI would look way more advanced than the AnimeFriend shots everyone seems to use as their basis of comparison between the two shows. Not accepting the advance of technique and technology between two show 20 years apart is no reason to invent this silly theory the VF-0 is more advanced than the VF-1. They said in the show itself that the VF-0 doesn't even use the OverTechnology engines of the VF-1. The official stats so far indicate the VF-0 is inferior to the VF-1, showing the VF-0 is both heavier and slower than the VF-1. I personally don't understand how so many people have a problem with the VF-0 compared to the VF-1. The VF-0 fighter mode looks a little more aerodynamic than the VF-1, but the VF-0 battroid mode looks like a clunker in comparison the the VF-1. If the mecha in Macross Zero looked like the YF-19 or YF-21, there would certainly be a reason to cry and shout. As it stands, the VF-1 and the VF-0 are the two most similar looking, different-model Valkryies that Kawamori has ever created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebhead Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 it seems to Kawamori, each Macorss series/movie is just one way of telling part of the overall Macross story. think of it sort of like how almost every episode of the Animatrix made things look a little different. they all are supposed to follow one overall continuity, but the interpretations of each story are unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGuy42 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 it seems to Kawamori, each Macorss series/movie is just one way of telling part of the overall Macross story. think of it sort of like how almost every episode of the Animatrix made things look a little different. they all are supposed to follow one overall continuity, but the interpretations of each story are unique. ...and that's why I find Macross so interesting. You can only watch so much Gundam before it just starts repeating itself.... -sigh- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Jenius Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Newsflash - The VF-0 IS more advanced. The vf1 was just delayed. VF1 in mass production -> VF-0 tests newer stuff -> VF-1 is late -> VF-0 sees combat Trial production model and testbed for advanced jet engines and Overtechnology designed for future variable fighters. Deployed for actual combat and functional testing when delivery of VF-1 Valkyrie variable fighter's thermonuclear reaction engines were delayed. Flown over the South Pacific Ocean island of Mayan during a secret program one to two years before Space War I. Nuclear Engines and Thrust Vectoring may give the VF-1 the advantage it needs... seeing as how the VF-0 doesn't seem to have verniers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abombz!! Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 The VF0 is Gundam..... the VF1 is the GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 The VF0 is Gundam..... the VF1 is the GM. if that's the case (if we're comparing this to gundam) why is it that the gundam outperforms the GM when the VF-1 outperforms the VF-0? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abombz!! Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 The VF0 is Gundam..... the VF1 is the GM. if that's the case (if we're comparing this to gundam) why is it that the gundam outperforms the GM when the VF-1 outperforms the VF-0? Because in this case the GM has thrusters and the Gundam doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayoung Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 (edited) Nakajima (the head engineer) says to Roy that the Zero eats a lot of fuel. The engines being used are EGF-127, because the thermonuclear engines didn't make it in time. Roy also points out that the armour is as strong as a tank (weight). Edited August 24, 2003 by ayoung Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-19 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Well, the above point about the VF-0 being more advanced than the VF-1, may be valid in some area. My question is: Does the VF-0 actually have a wrap-around cockpit like the YF-19 does in Battroid mode? It seems so, but then there's these monitors that are positioned around the pilot in such a way, that it seems that they look out of it... Other than that, I'd say that the VF-1 may actually be more advanced in the end... But then again, lots of data concerning the VF-1 survived Space War 1... Data concerning the VF-0 probably was destroyed when the Zentradi burned the Earth (so to speak)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 My question is: Does the VF-0 actually have a wrap-around cockpit like the YF-19 does in Battroid mode? It seems so, but then there's these monitors that are positioned around the pilot in such a way, that it seems that they look out of it... Nope. What the VF-0 has is 1 big (expensive and probably 5 ft tall on the single seat version) LCD for the front. 2 monitors on the side and 1 above their head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawjaw Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Just enjoy Macross0 for what it is - a beautiful and entertaining Macross OVA. Just like any series with sequels and prequels there are going to be problems with the timeline or things that don't seem right if you think about it too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radd Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 I have to agree with those who have already pointed out several important factors: 1.) The VF-0 is much less streamlined compared to the VF-1. Sure, it's nopsecone, pointy feet, and sleek wings look more streamlined, but the body is bulky, with gas canisters blistering the fuselage in several places. Overall, the much cleaner looking VF-1 is the sleeker fighter. 2.) The one and only technology that the VF-0 has that the VF-1 doesn't is some form of active stealth (which is not neccesarily the same kind of active stealth found on the much later YF-19 and 21). When the VF-0 description says 'testbed for future variable fighters' you must remember that at that time the VF-1 counts as a future variable fighter. When the final VF-1 was delayed due to mass production issues with the nuclear engines, they took the jet engine based testbed and put it into combat. That's the way I read it, anyhow. 3.) The official stats, which you can find at the Macross compendium, clearly show that the VF-1 is superior in performance to the VF-0. 4.) The VF-0 looks better in the animation compared to 20 year old SDF Macross animation, this is to be expected. Making it look better with better animation techniques is not a retcon, it's simply better animation. I'd argue that the VF-1 in 'DYRL?' looks just as good, if not better. I also imagine that if the VF-1 shows up in M0, it will look every bit as sleek and nifty as the VF-0. And to address another poiunt brought up, yes Macross Zero does have incredibly pretty animation, but it does not sacrifice the story for eye candy. I don't even know how that was brought up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abombz!! Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 And to address another poiunt brought up, yes Macross Zero does have incredibly pretty animation, but it does not sacrifice the story for eye candy. I don't even know how that was brought up. I agree.... it sacrifices on character not plot. <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegis! Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 To answer the topic title , No I don´t mind having a new fighter. You know , I´ve seen this debate many times before and I´m tired of seeing the same attitudes , is like the whole M7 debate all over again : You have people saying the VF-1 is way cooler and more advanced because they somehow take a defensive attitude towards something new like there was someone triying to say the VF-1 is crap when it´s not. I believe there´s no real basis for neither of the two arguments (for or agaisnt the VF-0 ), the only thing we´re clear about is the fact that the VF-1 has the only advantage of having thermonuclear reactors while the VF-0 hasn´t got them and that´s it. but if we think about it the to valkyries are just contemporaries , if not we would see such similar designs and such a short time between the deployment of both valkyries, the only reason we don´t see any VF-1s is because they´re still in the factories waiting for the thermonuclear engines , why ? because the UN is not willing to alter the design just because of an isolated incident (Mayan conflict); Add to this the fact that the VF-0 is a test fighter and as such can be alter with relative ease and its numbers are more limited (perfect for Mayan). And by the way , what´s the point of this debate ? just enjoy your MAcross people ...Jesus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bub Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Well. The VF-0 looks like it's part of the fleet in Macross7. Something in Kawamori's design that evolved. That's is just my opinion, ofcourse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegis! Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Well. The VF-0 looks like it's part of the fleet in Macross7. Something in Kawamori's design that evolved. That's is just my opinion, ofcourse. Huh..OK ...so you´re comparing a mecha featured in a high-budget OVA with a Long running TV series folk-people´s valkyrie....I honestly don´t see the similarites apart from the nosecone , which IMO is more similar to the VF-5000...the VF-0 is definetively neo-retro-looking (wonder if that style even exists ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abombz!! Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Well. The VF-0 looks like it's part of the fleet in Macross7. Something in Kawamori's design that evolved. That's is just my opinion, ofcourse. Ok... I hate Macross Zero.... but that was quite an offensive statement in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted August 24, 2003 Author Share Posted August 24, 2003 I'm just real disapointed they wern't biplanes, i wanted valky biplanes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abombz!! Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 I'm just real disapointed they wern't biplanes, i wanted valky biplanes. Now that would make one heck of a Alternate universe series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Jenius Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Well. The VF-0 looks like it's part of the fleet in Macross7. Something in Kawamori's design that evolved. That's is just my opinion, ofcourse. Ok... I hate Macross Zero.... but that was quite an offensive statement in my opinion. Get a life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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