Cyclone Trooper Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) Okay, I can't give a specific time index or anything for what I'm about to describe, because I don't have a set of DVDs (pirated or otherwise) for Macross F. But I know everyone who's seen the series a few times will know what I'm talking about... The research ship that Ranka is jettisoned from in an escape pod as a child looks exactly like a Marduk Dreadnought from Macross II. It has a vaguely Zentraedi-ish organic design, with four leg-like prows at the bow and stern of the ship. Can someone confirm this with a screencap or am I completely imagining this? If that's what the ship design was supposed to be based on, then was this possibly Big West giving a brief nod to MII? There are two flashback sequences during the course of the series that shows this particular scene... Or is this just one of those coincidences where the design just HAPPENED to look similar to the ship I'm referring to? With all the other fan-service Macross F has been guilty of, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was a blatant case of "Here's to all the MII fans out there! If you blink, you'll miss it!"... Edited April 10, 2009 by Cyclone Trooper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REbirth Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 If the big hologram Ranka isn't a big reference to MII already, you know, the Minmay Planetary Defense System? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I thought everyone said the unnamed ship from the Macross Galaxy fleet that sent a distress call to Frontier was supposed to be the big Macross II homage. As for large hologram, why wouldn't Ranka's giant hologram be a Minmay homage (DYRL) or a Sharon Apple Homage (Macross Plus)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 well most the people think that the Galaxy mystery ship is a homage to the VF-2SS form MacII; the other think it actually IS a VF-2SS and that this is evidence that Macross II is actually going to be made part of official cannon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 The research ship that Ranka is jettisoned from in an escape pod as a child looks exactly like a Marduk Dreadnought from Macross II. Honestly, I'm not seeing the resemblance. If the big hologram Ranka isn't a big reference to MII already, you know, the Minmay Planetary Defense System? Now THERE you might have something... well most the people think that the Galaxy mystery ship is a homage to the VF-2SS form MacII; the other think it actually IS a VF-2SS and that this is evidence that Macross II is actually going to be made part of official cannon. No, the mystery ship from the Macross Galaxy fleet is NOT a VF-2SS. It has some minor design commonalities with the VF-2SS, but all in all looks more like that one fighter from the first episode of Yukikaze. The people who think that's it's a sign that Macross II is going to be recanonized are daydreaming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Honestly, I'm not seeing the resemblance. Now THERE you might have something... No, the mystery ship from the Macross Galaxy fleet is NOT a VF-2SS. It has some minor design commonalities with the VF-2SS, but all in all looks more like that one fighter from the first episode of Yukikaze. The people who think that's it's a sign that Macross II is going to be recanonized are daydreaming... You're right, it's not a VF-2SS! The colors are all off, and the design is slightly whacked-up. It's actually a VF-2JA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Trooper Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) The people who think that's it's a sign that Macross II is going to be recanonized are daydreaming... I wasn't thinking that at all... I've only seen the series once, and honestly I'm recalling it from memory. Those who have studied Macross F frame by frame like the Dead Sea Scrolls are obviously going to have more insight into the ship design than I can remember. It was just one of those things that I saw for a split second before a Vajra destroyed it and thought it may have a fleeting resemblance to a Marduk ship. But maybe I'm completely off base with this. I'm not too proud to admit when I may be completely out in left field on something. Edited April 11, 2009 by Cyclone Trooper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I definitely would go with Mac Plus on the Ranka hologram... then we get Luca letting his Ghosts go in Mac Plus mode to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REbirth Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) The giant hologram Ranka is more of MII homage than MacPlus IMO, considering it has the same role and function as the Minmay Defense System in MII, but this time it's used to defend the alien-force against the human. Edited April 11, 2009 by REbirth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 The giant hologram Ranka is more of MII homage than MacPlus IMO, considering it has the same role and function as the Minmay Defense System in MII, but this time it's used to defend the alien-force against the human. Well what's under the hologram makes it a Macross Plus homage. Sharon Apple overlaps with the Macross but is semi transparent. Battle Galaxy makes full use of holography to hide it. Which makes me think a combination of stealth technology and holography would probably be version of a cloak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 The giant hologram Ranka is more of MII homage than MacPlus IMO, considering it has the same role and function as the Minmay Defense System in MII, but this time it's used to defend the alien-force against the human. I think you're shoe-horning. Ranka isn't being used for culture shock (so definitely not the same function), she's being used as a control method like how Sharon controlled the masses. Again, the combination of a big trippy hologram and Luca setting the Ghosts free is a pretty tight parallel. The Minmay Defense was also a tired defensive system humanity had come to over rely on which contextually is about as far as we can get from what happens with Ranka. What happens with Ranka at first seems damn near magical which is again, Sharon territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REbirth Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I think you're shoe-horning. Ranka isn't being used for culture shock (so definitely not the same function), she's being used as a control method like how Sharon controlled the masses. Again, the combination of a big trippy hologram and Luca setting the Ghosts free is a pretty tight parallel. The Minmay Defense was also a tired defensive system humanity had come to over rely on which contextually is about as far as we can get from what happens with Ranka. What happens with Ranka at first seems damn near magical which is again, Sharon territory. The giant hologram Ranka lowers the enemy morale (and since the human is really surprised by her DYRL, how is that not a culture shock?), that's the same purpose the Minmay Defense System was used. And she wasn't used to control anything, Vajra nor human, the Vajra is still controlled by the Vajra Queen by that time. About the magical part, I can argue about the fact Sharon Apple never grow out to that gigantic size (like Ranka and hologram Minmay did), nor she was used to defend a planet against an invasion force, duh. I'm not going to force you into believing that this is purely MII homage, it could be a MII + MacPlus homage too, you know? If you think I'm shoe-horning for the sake of a homage of the most obscure Macross ever, then that's fine too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 About the magical part, I can argue about the fact Sharon Apple never grow out to that gigantic size (like Ranka and hologram Minmay did)... What do you mean? She covered the whole Macross when Isamu was diving at it. (I'll state for the record, though, that I don't much care which series it was an homage to, or if it was an homage at all.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REbirth Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 What do you mean? She covered the whole Macross when Isamu was diving at it. (I'll state for the record, though, that I don't much care which series it was an homage to, or if it was an homage at all.) Nah, I mean the fact, Sharon Apple was never visible in space. I mean Sharon Apple is huge, but the hologram of Ranka and Minmay (in MII) are SUPER HUGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Nah, I mean the fact, Sharon Apple was never visible in space. I mean Sharon Apple is huge, but the hologram of Ranka and Minmay (in MII) are SUPER HUGE Okay, I'll grant you that. although I insist that that wasn't really Minmay in MII; I believe it was some kind of "Miss Macross"-type contest winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radd Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Eh. Like so often, I think people are seeing from it what they want to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) Okay, I'll grant you that. although I insist that that wasn't really Minmay in MII; I believe it was some kind of "Miss Macross"-type contest winner. To the best of my knowledge, said holographic singer has never been identified. I gotta say, if it IS Minmay, she's looking pretty good for a woman about to celebrate her 100th birthday. Edited April 12, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 To the best of my knowledge, said holographic singer has never been identified. I gotta say, if it IS Minmay, she's looking pretty good for a woman about to celebrate her 100th birthday. Hmmm...I remember hearing that there was some kind of "Miss Macross" Contest every ten years to pick who would be the new Minmay Defense Singer. The disturbing part is that I was sure I'd heard that from you...guess not, huh? Maybe I dreamed it. And yeah...she would look good, but I'm pretty sure she's dead. One of the novels apparently talks about her supposed grandson...and I don't think she's around to say if he really is related to her or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) Hmmm...I remember hearing that there was some kind of "Miss Macross" Contest every ten years to pick who would be the new Minmay Defense Singer. The disturbing part is that I was sure I'd heard that from you...guess not, huh? Maybe I dreamed it. And yeah...she would look good, but I'm pretty sure she's dead. One of the novels apparently talks about her supposed grandson...and I don't think she's around to say if he really is related to her or not. Oh no, you heard that from me. Kenichi Yatagai, the director of Macross II, gave an interview in B-Club Magazine where he talked about the backstory of Macross II. He made mention that the military selected a new song for the Minmay Defense every year, and that it was a big PR thing. Edited April 12, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Oh no, you heard that from me. Kenichi Yatagai, the director of Macross II, gave an interview in B-Club Magazine where he talked about the backstory of Macross II. He made mention that the military selected a new song for the Minmay Defense every year, and that it was a big PR thing. Ah, whew. Though I was going crazy there for a sec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Hmmm...I remember hearing that there was some kind of "Miss Macross" Contest every ten years to pick who would be the new Minmay Defense Singer. The disturbing part is that I was sure I'd heard that from you...guess not, huh? Maybe I dreamed it. And yeah...she would look good, but I'm pretty sure she's dead. One of the novels apparently talks about her supposed grandson...and I don't think she's around to say if he really is related to her or not. Whoa back up a minute! Grandson? Well being AU Megaroad-01 did not disappear in this timeline huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Whoa back up a minute! Grandson? Well being AU Megaroad-01 did not disappear in this timeline huh? Yup. I don't have more information, though, since I haven't read the novels yet. There's five of them. The first one apparently retells the series. The next four...go further. Plus, they were written by Sukehiro Tomita, writer of Macross II (and screenwriter of DYRL and a bunch of SDFM episodes), so they should be pretty official. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) I am one of those people who think Captain Wilen's fighter was a tribute to the VF-2SS from Mac II. Btw, I have found 2 elements of Macross II in canon Macross stories. I heard the "Marduk" music theme in Macross Dynamite 7 and also the "Scooper" song used as main theme in the Macross Valkyrie Overdrive Windows XP Pc game... And from a mecha design point of view, I found lots of similar elements of the VF-2SS in the both the armored and full armor VF-25S. I'm not saying the VF-25S was inspired entirely by it, but I have seen similar subtle details in both designs... Edited April 14, 2009 by Kronnang Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-18S Hornet Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 HUH!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginrai Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 How about the Jamming Birds in Macross 7 sing a Macross II song? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I am one of those people who think Captain Wilen's fighter was a tribute to the VF-2SS from Mac II. Btw, I have found 2 elements of Macross II in canon Macross stories. I heard the "Marduk" music theme in Macross Dynamite 7 and also the "Scooper" song used as main theme in the Macross Valkyrie Overdrive Windows XP Pc game... And from a mecha design point of view, I found lots of similar elements of the VF-2SS in the armored VF-25. I'm not saying the VF-25 was inspired entirely by it, but I have seen similar subtle details in both designs... That mech we see for a split second having something in common with the VF-2SS, sure. The VF-25? No. If you look at the VF-1 and the VF-2SS you can see exactly where the VF-2SS comes from. If you look at the VF-1 and the VF-25 you can see a few little similariites. I think what you're seeing is some VF-1 in the VF-25 and attributing it to the VF-2SS instead of the proper source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) There's five of them. The first one apparently retells the series. The next four...go further. Plus, they were written by Sukehiro Tomita, writer of Macross II (and screenwriter of DYRL and a bunch of SDFM episodes), so they should be pretty official. Well... I've got copies of all five novels, but we aren't planning to translate them ourselves (I can't stomach translating 5 ~200pg novels) so we're gonna take up a collection sometime later this year and farm the work out to a professional translation service. How about the Jamming Birds in Macross 7 sing a Macross II song? Yeah, there's that... the Jamming Birds sing "Riding in your Valkyrie". And from a mecha design point of view, I found lots of similar elements of the VF-2SS in the armored VF-25. I'm not saying the VF-25 was inspired entirely by it, but I have seen similar subtle details in both designs... *cough* Yeah... I can see the similarities too... they start and end with the fact that both the VF-2SS and VF-25 are updated versions of the VF-1 with drastically improved technology... the difference being that the VF-2SS has a damn good reason for basing itself off the VF-1, and there's no good reason for the VF-25 to have such an anachronistic design. Edited April 14, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) Okay, I'll grant you that. although I insist that that wasn't really Minmay in MII; I believe it was some kind of "Miss Macross"-type contest winner. If I recall correctly, the producer describes the holographic singer as the latest pop-idol of the day and not Minmay. Unfortunately that wasn't well explained in the show. The other point about the Ranka / MII relation is that in MII there were multiple holograms of the singing pop idol, not one giant one. *cough* Yeah... I can see the similarities too... they start and end with the fact that both the VF-2SS and VF-25 are updated versions of the VF-1 with drastically improved technology... the difference being that the VF-2SS has a damn good reason for basing itself off the VF-1, and there's no good reason for the VF-25 to have such an anachronistic design. I really don't see the similarities between the Armored VF-25 and the VF-2SS at all! The VF-2SS was clearly a hybrid design between the VF-1 and VF-4 and quite an attractive one at that. The brief ode to MII with the Galaxy messenger fighter is as far as I've really seen. I suspect Kawamori was under intense pressure from Bandai and BigWest to do something. As far as BW is concerned it's a Macross title and Bandai sponsored that show as well so no doubt wants to further profit from it by reminding the fans of the show's existence. Edited April 14, 2009 by Zinjo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 And I still know why you people see in that craft from Galaxy as a VF-2SS homage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 And I still know why you people see in that craft from Galaxy as a VF-2SS homage. Well some see things that aren't there and others refuse to see things that are.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) That mech we see for a split second having something in common with the VF-2SS, sure. The VF-25? No. If you look at the VF-1 and the VF-2SS you can see exactly where the VF-2SS comes from. If you look at the VF-1 and the VF-25 you can see a few little similariites. I think what you're seeing is some VF-1 in the VF-25 and attributing it to the VF-2SS instead of the proper source. *cough* Yeah... I can see the similarities too... they start and end with the fact that both the VF-2SS and VF-25 are updated versions of the VF-1 with drastically improved technology... the difference being that the VF-2SS has a damn good reason for basing itself off the VF-1, and there's no good reason for the VF-25 to have such an anachronistic design. I really don't see the similarities between the Armored VF-25 and the VF-2SS at all! Guys, I said subtle similarities... Ozma's VF-25S has a red sensor in the forehead just like the VF-2SS. The forearms (and a bit of the arms) design is strikingly similar too. Also, the stripe pattern in the upper part of both torsos looks the same. The VF-2SS with Super Armed Pack has some armor patterns identical to some patterns in the Full Armor VF-25S. Btw... The Cheyenne destroids (I & II) also have some Mac II Tomahawk in them... Edited April 14, 2009 by Kronnang Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 And from a mecha design point of view, I found lots of similar elements of the VF-2SS in the armored VF-25. I'm not saying the VF-25 was inspired entirely by it, but I have seen similar subtle details in both designs... While I don't see any visual similarities at all between the VF-2SS and the VF-25, there in universe concept are actually very similar. In both cases, The valks themselves are very lightly armed and rely entirely on modular FAST pack type systems for armament. also the automated attack bits of the VF-2SS operate in a similar fashion to the AIF-7S Ghosts, with both acting as unmanned cannon fodder craft slaved to a fighter. And I still know why you people see in that craft from Galaxy as a VF-2SS homage. I don't know why either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 also the automated attack bits of the VF-2SS operate in a similar fashion to the AIF-7S Ghosts, with both acting as unmanned cannon fodder craft slaved to a fighter. U mean these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Guys, I said subtle similarities... Ozma's VF-25S has a red sensor in the forehead just like the VF-2SS. The forearms (and a bit of the arms) design is strikingly similar too. Also, the stripe pattern in the upper part of both torsos looks the same. The VF-2SS with Super Armed Pack has some armor patterns identical to some patterns in the Full Armor VF-25S. Btw... The Cheyenne destroids (I & II) also have some Mac II Tomahawk in them... I'm just not seeing it at all. most of these are on the level of saying a YF-21 is similar to a Gouf because they're both blue and have red mono-eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I'm just not seeing it at all. Well they are really small details. I don't think they are tributes, but I'm sure as hell Kawamori must have watched Macross II designs at least once in his life. He could have used those details without even knowing... Sometimes that happens when creating new mecha (At least to me, hehe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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