What's up with Macross VF-X2 being canon ?

[Macross007]

In my understanding, Macross VF-X2, taking place in 2050 if I remember well, is said to be canon and yet episode 24 of Macross Frontier contradicted the fact that the NUSN was not even created (according to Macross VF-X2) by showing a VF-171 with a NUSN emblem fighting in 2047. Can somebody come up a with a logical explanation in a effort to clean up this canon mess or should we consider Macross VF-X2 as non canon now ?

[VFTF1]

Easy:

Following the events of Macross Frontier episode 26, Ranka and Sheryl settle down together, both of them unable to come to grips with the fact that Alto prefers to fly rather than marry either one of them - so they just decide to marry eachother and end up exploring their fold waves together. This research leads them to experiment with using the power of song to create personal fold systems like the ones the Vajra were able to use. Sheryl and Ranka have Brera Stern use the technology from Galaxy to bio-mechanically enhance them to be like the Vajra and be able to fold on their own, just by singing about love. One night, they argue with Alto because they just can't stand his indecision. But Alto remains dense and doesn't understand what women want, so Sheryl and Ranka are inspired to sing a song of lost love; a song of despair. This song generates a fold wave which sucks them into itself and brings them to the alternate Macross universe where everything is a computer game instead of an anime. There, they find themselves pulled into the fighting and Sheryl uses her basic pilot skills to pilot a VF-X2 while Ranka sings in hopes of stopping the violence. Meanwhile, back in the Macross Frontier world, Alto realizes his mistake and sing love songs while dressed as a woman in the hopes of bringing the girls back. He does manage to open a fold wave thanks to Sheryl's ear-ring which he kept, and the fold wave sucks Sheryl, Ranka and the VF-2 out of the video game universe BUT they have trouble getting back to the Macross Frontier universe post-episode 26 due to mixed feelings that the girls have which generate an inverse vector thrust in the fold wave diameter contortion. These contortions rip the fabric of the fold wave apart and Alto just manages to pull the girls out while the VF-X2 and its' NUNS markings are sucked even further back in time - where? - why to just prior to Macross Frontier. They are found by some scouts from the UN Spacey and once the mecha is tested and its' data recorder analyzed, the UN Spacey comes to the conclusion that it must pre-empt the awaiting battle of different time lines by reforming itself in to the new UN Spacey, or NUNS. They also plan on using the VF-X2 as a prototype for their newest fighters but then a tragic accident occurs and the VF-X2 is blown up by terrorists from the Anti-UN who try to steal it and the project is scraped, but the NUNS remains.

And that's the logical explanation.

Pete

[Hikuro]

In my understanding, Macross VF-X2, taking place in 2050 if I remember well, is said to be canon and yet episode 24 of Macross Frontier contradicted the fact that the NUSN was not even created (according to Macross VF-X2) by showing a VF-171 with a NUSN emblem fighting in 2047. Can somebody come up a with a logical explanation in a effort to clean up this canon mess or should we consider Macross VF-X2 as non canon now ?

Animation mistakes happen. Like Ozma's VF-17 having EX Gear and it shouldn't, unless that fleet were the ones who designed the EX Gear which they should not of been.

Just cause there was a mistake doesn't mean it isn't cannon. Look at all the CG errors in Frontier, Alto looses an arm, then it grows back like an Evangelion on steroids 2 minutes later. He looses a chunk of his wing, it's back.

Crap like that happens all the time, it's mostly done to save time and money from having to remap skins and laziness.

Edited February 18, 2009 by Hikuro

[Thom]

Easy:

Following the events of Macross Frontier episode 26, Ranka and Sheryl settle down together, both of them unable to come to grips with the fact that Alto prefers to fly rather than marry either one of them - so they just decide to marry eachother and end up exploring their fold waves together.

Pete

I love it!! That's perfect.

No need for anything else!

[Killer Robot]

I've generally gotten the idea of the games, VF-X2 among them, as being not unlike the assorted games and books for Star Wars, where some are canon in theory and might be an occasional source of idea or mecha mining for things to actually put in the "main" franchise of movies/TV, but which aren't considered important enough that the main properties will hinge on them or work too hard to fit in line with them. I may be wrong, but I haven't seen any clear indication otherwise.

[Macross007]

Easy:

Following the events of Macross Frontier episode 26, Ranka and Sheryl settle down together, both of them unable to come to grips with the fact that Alto prefers to fly rather than marry either one of them - so they just decide to marry eachother and end up exploring their fold waves together. This research leads them to experiment with using the power of song to create personal fold systems like the ones the Vajra were able to use. Sheryl and Ranka have Brera Stern use the technology from Galaxy to bio-mechanically enhance them to be like the Vajra and be able to fold on their own, just by singing about love. One night, they argue with Alto because they just can't stand his indecision. But Alto remains dense and doesn't understand what women want, so Sheryl and Ranka are inspired to sing a song of lost love; a song of despair. This song generates a fold wave which sucks them into itself and brings them to the alternate Macross universe where everything is a computer game instead of an anime. There, they find themselves pulled into the fighting and Sheryl uses her basic pilot skills to pilot a VF-X2 while Ranka sings in hopes of stopping the violence. Meanwhile, back in the Macross Frontier world, Alto realizes his mistake and sing love songs while dressed as a woman in the hopes of bringing the girls back. He does manage to open a fold wave thanks to Sheryl's ear-ring which he kept, and the fold wave sucks Sheryl, Ranka and the VF-2 out of the video game universe BUT they have trouble getting back to the Macross Frontier universe post-episode 26 due to mixed feelings that the girls have which generate an inverse vector thrust in the fold wave diameter contortion. These contortions rip the fabric of the fold wave apart and Alto just manages to pull the girls out while the VF-X2 and its' NUNS markings are sucked even further back in time - where? - why to just prior to Macross Frontier. They are found by some scouts from the UN Spacey and once the mecha is tested and its' data recorder analyzed, the UN Spacey comes to the conclusion that it must pre-empt the awaiting battle of different time lines by reforming itself in to the new UN Spacey, or NUNS. They also plan on using the VF-X2 as a prototype for their newest fighters but then a tragic accident occurs and the VF-X2 is blown up by terrorists from the Anti-UN who try to steal it and the project is scraped, but the NUNS remains.

And that's the logical explanation.

Pete

Let me guess : Brannon Braga is your "Sempai", right ?

Edited February 19, 2009 by Macross007

[RedWolf]

In my understanding, Macross VF-X2, taking place in 2050 if I remember well, is said to be canon and yet episode 24 of Macross Frontier contradicted the fact that the NUSN was not even created (according to Macross VF-X2) by showing a VF-171 with a NUSN emblem fighting in 2047. Can somebody come up a with a logical explanation in a effort to clean up this canon mess or should we consider Macross VF-X2 as non canon now ?

Yeah as said lazy animation. The games which involves SK's work are considered canon.

For example Macross M3 explains the period of time between SDFM and Macross 7 about Max and Millia.

Shockers out of nowhere we find out that the Jenius family has an eighth daughter.

Eigth daughter! From Macross 7 we knew Millia gave birth to 7 daughters. Confirmed by that picture of Emilla in Macross 7 the Galaxy is calling me.

Moaramia Jifon was a giant loli Meltran the same age as Komillia. Who is an eight year old piloting a hybrid of a Valkyrie and a Glaug. A rebel ace that Max and Millia spanked. Millia's mommy instincts comes apparent here finding her too cute miclones her and brings her home basically.

Adopting her and making her Moaramia Jenius.

As far as we know only Moaramia out of the daughters joined UN Spacy which explains why she wasn't on the Red Moon when Mylene was born. Where that picture was taken.

Roundabout explanation? Yes and it also works for Macross VF-X2.

Macross VF-X is canon as Macross 7 bridge bunny Miho Miho appears. A bunch Zentradi with updated gear kidnap an idol group, Milky Dolls. You the pilot is supposed to rescue them one by one and kill the Zentradi leader DYRL style. The enemy Valkyrie Feios makes its firts appearance. It also appears later in VF-X2.

Macross VF-X2 presented mecha designs that is apparent in Macross Frontier. Namely design elements of Macross 13 are seen in Battle Frontier and Battle Galaxy. (The crotch part.)

Not to mention the VB-6 Konig Monster.

The events of a conspiracy to take over the New UN in VF-X2 explains why UN Spacy is now New UN Spacy with a new logo to boot.

Edited February 19, 2009 by RedWolf

[Morpheus]

The Force of Retcon is strong with this one.....

[Killer Robot]

See, RedWolf is talking about just what I thought. Good enough in mecha design to mine for the main line, bizarre enough in story design that they're thankfully not making game events have important impact on the animated installments.

[sketchley]

The Force of Retcon is strong with this one.....

How is it a retcon? VF-X and VF-X2 predate MF.

[RedWolf]

How is it a retcon? VF-X and VF-X2 predate MF.

I believe he was referring on my rant on M3.

Macross DYRL-2036-ELS-II continuity is more convulted.

[Morpheus]

How is it a retcon? VF-X and VF-X2 predate MF.

In VFX-2 (2050), UNS still using VF-17 as special op fighter, In MF, according to Michel flashback, NUNS already exist at that time and even the space force are using VF-171.

----EMERGENCY BRAKE APPLIED----

Wait, are we talking about VF-X2 or VFX-2? :huh:

VF-X2 -> prototype valkyrie X no.2

VFX-2 -> PS1 game Macross Digital Mission VFX-2

----shot self in toe------

[RedWolf]

In VFX-2 (2050), UNS still using VF-17 as special op fighter, In MF, according to Michel flashback, NUNS already exist at that time and even the space force are using VF-171.

----EMERGENCY BRAKE APPLIED----

Wait, are we talking about VF-X2 or VFX-2? :huh:

VF-X2 -> prototype valkyrie X no.2

VFX-2 -> PS1 game Macross Digital Mission VFX-2

----shot self in toe------

Games. Note that there is a 12 year gap between Macross Dynamite 7 and Macross Frontier.

By Macross Dynamie 7 the Macross 7 fleet replaced the VF-11 with VF-17 as its mainline fighter. (2047)

At the same time with the 117th fleet having the VF-171 as its mainline fighter.(2048)

The smuggler Loschier was selling the VF-17 in the black market. (2047)

My take in this General Galaxy has made the 17 and 171 cheap enough to buy and manufacture.

The VF-171 Nightmare Plus isn't exactly new cutting edge variable fighters. They are the user friendly ones for those who can't handle a VF-19 or a VF-22. Not everybody is an ace.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Easy:

Following the events of Macross Frontier episode 26, Ranka and Sheryl settle down together, both of them unable to come to grips with the fact that Alto prefers to fly rather than marry either one of them - so they just decide to marry eachother and end up exploring their fold waves together. This research leads them to experiment with using the power of song to create personal fold systems like the ones the Vajra were able to use. Sheryl and Ranka have Brera Stern use the technology from Galaxy to bio-mechanically enhance them to be like the Vajra and be able to fold on their own, just by singing about love. One night, they argue with Alto because they just can't stand his indecision. But Alto remains dense and doesn't understand what women want, so Sheryl and Ranka are inspired to sing a song of lost love; a song of despair. This song generates a fold wave which sucks them into itself and brings them to the alternate Macross universe where everything is a computer game instead of an anime. There, they find themselves pulled into the fighting and Sheryl uses her basic pilot skills to pilot a VF-X2 while Ranka sings in hopes of stopping the violence. Meanwhile, back in the Macross Frontier world, Alto realizes his mistake and sing love songs while dressed as a woman in the hopes of bringing the girls back. He does manage to open a fold wave thanks to Sheryl's ear-ring which he kept, and the fold wave sucks Sheryl, Ranka and the VF-2 out of the video game universe BUT they have trouble getting back to the Macross Frontier universe post-episode 26 due to mixed feelings that the girls have which generate an inverse vector thrust in the fold wave diameter contortion. These contortions rip the fabric of the fold wave apart and Alto just manages to pull the girls out while the VF-X2 and its' NUNS markings are sucked even further back in time - where? - why to just prior to Macross Frontier. They are found by some scouts from the UN Spacey and once the mecha is tested and its' data recorder analyzed, the UN Spacey comes to the conclusion that it must pre-empt the awaiting battle of different time lines by reforming itself in to the new UN Spacey, or NUNS. They also plan on using the VF-X2 as a prototype for their newest fighters but then a tragic accident occurs and the VF-X2 is blown up by terrorists from the Anti-UN who try to steal it and the project is scraped, but the NUNS remains.

And that's the logical explanation.

Pete

You know I started reading this, wondering "Lets see how he's going to bring it back to VFX2 topic." You do not dissapoint my good friend.

[Sketch]

The events of a conspiracy to take over the New UN in VF-X2 explains why UN Spacy is now New UN Spacy with a new logo to boot.

The conflict was between a rogue fleet, and a rogue general (working with terrorists and the critical path corporation). A failed coup de etat just doesn't seem like a reasonable explanation. For all we know NUNS might simply be a half-century facelift. The stensiled "U.N. SPACY" in block caps was SO 2000's. Mabe the italicized N.U.N.S. in a modern typeface, with the crescent is more in line with the design sensibilities of 2050.

Kidding aside, until Kawamori says what's up, I'd be wary of making claims about VF-X2's events cuasing the collapse/restructuring of the UN Government, as it is oft repeated across the tubes.

Edited February 19, 2009 by Sketch

[RedWolf]

The conflict was between a rogue fleet, and a rogue general (working with terrorists and the critical path corporation). A failed coup de etat just doesn't seem like a reasonable explanation. For all we know NUNS might simply be a half-century facelift. The stensiled "U.N. SPACY" in block caps was SO 2000's. Mabe the italicized N.U.N.S. in a modern typeface, with the crescent is more in line with the design sensibilities of 2050.

Kidding aside, until Kawamori says what's up, I'd be wary of making claims about VF-X2's events cuasing the collapse/restructuring of the UN Government, as it is oft repeated across the tubes.

For the record ever since the aftermath of Bodol Zer's attack the government has always called itself New UN.

As we saw in Macross 7, VF-X and VF-X2 the military has retained the UN Spacy name.

There are several reasons why the military could have revamped with reforms. Placing more power in the civilian governments over them.

1. Civilian leadership and Military fleet leadership clashes. As seen Macross 7 the set up isn't perfect.

2. Colony fleet abandonment. UN Spacy didn't lift a finger for Macross 7 and basically threw them to the wolves.

3. Policies pertaining to uncultured Zentradi fleets. UN Spacy gave a blanket order to destroy any rogue or uncultured Zentradi fleet without any attempt to bring them in.

Maximillian and Millia Jenius, Exsedol Folmo and Nekki Basara prooved them wrong having a peace treaty encountering Chlore's Meltran fleet.

4. Military corruption. There are several noted officers in the late 2040's and early 2050's.

*Col Barton endangering the fleet to satify his ego because he can't control Basara, illegal weapons research with the Evil Series and attempted murder of Dr, Chiba. (Macross 7, Macross Dynamite 7 Mylene Beat)

*Col Bacelon attempted a Zentradi revolt, illegal mind control experimentation, and collaboration with the enemy. (Macross 7 Trash)

*Wilbur Garland colluding with terrorists and attempted coup de'tat of Earth.

Now look at the changes with NUNS.

*They are under the direct control of the fleet executive body.

*Crisis and problems affecting the entire NUN goes through NUN Government Assembly instead of a military general. This can be seen with the Vajra crisis, the revelation of the Macross Galaxy conspiracy.

This doesn't mean there aren't still nut caseses in the military wanting to go viking and create a more totalitarian regime.

Military aide Leon Mishima tried to make a play with taking over Frontier first then eventually using MDEs and fold quartz for his galactic domination schemes.

Despite being the defenders of the NUN hedgemony the NUN government will have to be wary of a military that has too many powers.

They'll keep a tighter leash in NUNS now as two colony militaries went rogue in 2059.

Remember Grace O'Connor even held a rank of Colonel in Galaxy according to Brera.

Edited February 19, 2009 by RedWolf

[Kronnang Dunn]

Animation mistakes happen.

Indeed. I would have loved to see Ozma in a VF-19 back in 2047 instead. A least a CGI VF-19 was seen in ALL THAT VF...

[RedWolf]

Indeed. I would have loved to see Ozma in a VF-19 back in 2047 instead. A least a CGI VF-19 was seen in ALL THAT VF...

It is because the YF-19/VF-19 is a hero fighter of Macross Plus and Macross 7.

The VF-25 is supposedly the hero fighter of Macross Frontier.

We can't have hero fighter's blowing up can we? (Except Alto and Luca wreck theirs every other time. )

[sketchley]

In VFX-2 (2050), UNS still using VF-17 as special op fighter, In MF, according to Michel flashback, NUNS already exist at that time and even the space force are using VF-171.

----EMERGENCY BRAKE APPLIED----

Wait, are we talking about VF-X2 or VFX-2? :huh:

VF-X2 -> prototype valkyrie X no.2

VFX-2 -> PS1 game Macross Digital Mission VFX-2

----shot self in toe------

On the spines of the game cases its:

"Macross Digital Mission VF-X"

"マクロスVF-X2"

You'll want to check your source, as VFX-2 is not correct.

Regarding the other part - where was it stated in Macross F that the VF-17 stopped being used as a special forces fighter?

Going further along this path, we must ask ourselves why are the VF-1 and VF-4 still being used by the VF-X Ravens in 2047?

Also, are you certain that you're not refering to the VF-X-2? http://macross.anime.net/wiki/VF-X-2

[Sketch]

Or it could be a simple re-branding to fit with the times. Until Kawaomori or Chronicle says otherwise, all this speculation is in the realm of fan fiction.