Zor Primus Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) After years of only seeing Robotech's version and hearing the war of words between purist and RT fans I can finally give a valid opinion. Yes...Macross is superior to RT's version in many ways. Character's are far more understood and appriciated, the dialogue is definately superior and the overall story elements are by far more interesting. I have seen up to episode 30 and can sure that there will be nothing to change this opinion. To go as far as to bash RT, no...probably not...but yeah I went ahead and ordered the 3 box DVD remastered set from AnimEigo. Next up original Southern Cross and Mospeada Now for my first question pertaining to the show itself. I have seen Macross II, some of Macross 7...couldn't stand it, Macross Plus and a few eps of Macross Frontier. Now in the tv series the Zentradi mention the Supervision Army as their enemy, in none of the aforementioned sequals there has been a follow up or encounter that I can remember with the SA...loop hole or something to come? Edited January 30, 2009 by Zor Primus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sucker4meltrans Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 status of the supervision army as far as we know by the time of the space war 1 is that the supervision army is pretty much destroyed and that the zentradi are runnign rampant through the galaxy mopping up. if you manage to watch all of 7 you will get some insight into this. the supervision army is not important except for the fact that the macross was a SA gunship before it crashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zor Primus Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Ah! Thanks for the info... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) A new fan Can I ask what motivated you to finally watch the original series? I know you've been aware of the original for some time, as you wrote above. But what finally pushed you to make the plunge just recently? Edited January 30, 2009 by Mr March Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I can't remember what episode it's in - but one of the episodes towards the end of SDFM TV - "Dolls of the Devil" or "Puppets of the Devil" sheds some light on this issue - although - I can't remember if it was episode 30...or maybe 31? or 29? forgot... Anyways - there's also a thread dedicated to the question of the Supervision Army - just put it in the search function. So.... Who do you love more? Misa - or Minmey? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 You mean Satan's Dolls? That's the episode where Quamzin starts making trouble. Perhaps you mean Viva Maria where along the way they find a SA wreck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Perhaps you mean Viva Maria where along the way they find a SA wreck. That's the one. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zor Primus Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Mr March: Netflix...basically the ease in availability finally gave me no more excuse to not see it. VFTF1: Thanks...I'll check out that thread... Now in regards to Misa or Minmey, even before watching it, Misa/Lisa was always my favorite. However I will say this, the original series does make Minmey 100% more tolerable then her RT persona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zor Primus Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 That's the one. Pete Yeah...saw that ep last night...its what got me thinking about what if anything else ever was known about the Supervision Army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Focker Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Today you are a man. Someone please return his balls back to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Yeah...saw that ep last night...its what got me thinking about what if anything else ever was known about the Supervision Army. Few actually. Other than booby trapping gunships. The Supervision Army according to Macross 7 mythos are the brainwashed forces of the Protodevlin comprised of both Zentradi and Protoculture. That is why the ASS-1 or Macross can accomodate both. The order not to harm Protoculture was taken off because of the situation of having Protoculture in SA forces. In the first episode the Varauta forces' , the new Protodevlin minions, VFs seemed familliar to Exsedol but he dimissed it because they were the wrong size accomodating human sized pilots. From this we can infer the Supervision Army uses a similar paint job and its fighters are giants like Zentradi. Other than that we don't know what generally happened to them after the defeat of the Protodevlin. We're they released from mind control or not? There are still fleets of SA out there fighting Zentradi. Which explains the records of Quamzin, Millia and Chlore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 So.... Who do you love more? Misa - or Minmey? Pete what the hell kinda silly question is that?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DYRL? Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I'm glad that I decided to throw SDFM back into the DVD player the other day. I have not seen it in so long. I can't seem to get my DYRL? to work though. . Too bad...it's my FAVORITE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Today you are a man. Someone please return his balls back to him. Yes, and allow the convert to partake of the sacred Yoshinol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fade Rathnik Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Well with a name like supervision and having both Protoculture and Zent in their ranks... Strikes me as that they were the force that maintained order within the Zents, till they got taken over of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 what the hell kinda silly question is that?? I know, I know - it should be obvious who is more lovable But still - it's fun to discuss, particularly with someone seeing it for the first time Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Well with a name like supervision and having both Protoculture and Zent in their ranks... Strikes me as that they were the force that maintained order within the Zents, till they got taken over of course Not quite... http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...mp;#entry680780 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaman Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) Who do you love more? Misa - or Minmey? For me it's Misa, from the first time I saw the character (First I saw was RT's version of Global's report, I kinda got lucky just randomly starting to watch the series with that episode - luckier would have been seeing it from the first episode of course). PS - but don't tell my wife... Edited January 31, 2009 by Dynaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polidread Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Yes...Macross is superior to RT's version in many ways. Character's are far more understood and appriciated, the dialogue is definately superior and the overall story elements are by far more interesting. I have seen up to episode 30 and can sure that there will be nothing to change this opinion. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Well, well, well! Somebody who doesn't rip RT... This is good. Macross was better, but RT was good in its own way. 1: It had to be dumbed down because anyone over the age of 12 wasn't gonna much like the original Macross in that day. 2: It had to be longer. 36 episodes was too short for a "Cartoon" in the 80's. So, to give it the full 85-episodes it'd need for some success, they added SC and Mospeada. 3: I'd say a damn good job was done with making 3 existing works into one entity with its own identity and mythos. That's my spiel. Macross still wins, but I can't call Macek a bad dude. It's not his fault... IT'S AGRAMA'S! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Well, well, well! Somebody who doesn't rip RT... This is good. Macross was better, but RT was good in its own way. 1: It had to be dumbed down because anyone over the age of 12 wasn't gonna much like the original Macross in that day. 2: It had to be longer. 36 episodes was too short for a "Cartoon" in the 80's. So, to give it the full 85-episodes it'd need for some success, they added SC and Mospeada. 3: I'd say a damn good job was done with making 3 existing works into one entity with its own identity and mythos. That's my spiel. Macross still wins, but I can't call Macek a bad dude. It's not his fault... IT'S AGRAMA'S! I kinda sorta agree. Macek was/is a huge Macross fan, and his initial attempt to bring it over in a purer form was derailed by Revell already having the rights to some of the Macross models, and by the "65 episodes needed for syndication" stipulation. He did a pretty good job of trying to make it work within the constraints placed on him. He also did manage to wedge the series through without the kind of wholesale kiddification of, say, "Battle of the Planets." Personally, I don't have a whole lot of problems with Robotech; it wasn't all that great, but it was good for its time, and it had a big impact in terms of opening the door to anime becoming mainstream in the west. I liked it when I was eleven, but I have no desire to watch it now. No, what I have a problem with are people who want Robotech to continue at Macross's expense, and then say that Big West is in the wrong, because they don't want to work with Harmony Gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdf Prime Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I missed Robotech back in the 80's so my first Macross experience was DYRL and saw SDF when ADV released it a few years back. But what I did that was funny, I was needing some kind of macross fix and picked up the Macross Saga novel and that led me to watch robotech last year ( Don't throw anything at me please) I didn't think robotech was all that bad. I thought it had a pretty good voice actors in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I missed Robotech back in the 80's so my first Macross experience was DYRL and saw SDF when ADV released it a few years back. But what I did that was funny, I was needing some kind of macross fix and picked up the Macross Saga novel and that led me to watch robotech last year ( Don't throw anything at me please) I didn't think robotech was all that bad. I thought it had a pretty good voice actors in it. Dan Woren is still more Focker to me than anyone since. And, for that matter, so are Rebecca Forstadt, Tony Oliver, and Richard Epcar for Minmay, Hikaru, and Kakizaki than the ones in the ADV dub... VIC MIGNONA DOES NOT GET TO BE HIKARU! I HATE THEM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Dan Woren is still more Focker to me than anyone since. And, for that matter, so are Rebecca Forstadt, Tony Oliver, and Richard Epcar for Minmay, Hikaru, and Kakizaki than the ones in the ADV dub... VIC MIGNONA DOES NOT GET TO BE HIKARU! I HATE THEM! Dude! Are you saying that Rebecca Forstadt is a better Minmay than Mari Iijima...? I hope not...because if you were, you'd be showing serious lack of discernment. And, I'm sorry...Dan Woren isn't Focker any more than he's Yang Neumann. Akira Kamiya is, has been, and shall always be the REAL Roy Focker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) Dan Woren is still more Focker to me than anyone since. And, for that matter, so are Rebecca Forstadt, Tony Oliver, and Richard Epcar for Minmay, Hikaru, and Kakizaki than the ones in the ADV dub... VIC MIGNONA DOES NOT GET TO BE HIKARU! I HATE THEM! on a whole the RT voice actors were a lot better than the ADV dub actors, it was nice that they got Mari Iijima, but everyone else is just week. (oh my god the misa VA was awful.) the original macross cast is till the best though. I do prefer the Robotech opening theme though. Edited February 1, 2009 by anime52k8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 agreed, the two good things about robotech were the voice actors and the opening theme. I dislike both. Does that make me a bad person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerocombatpilot Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I dislike both. Does that make me a bad person? No, it does not! But, I like both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) Macek may be many things, but a Macross fan isn't one of them. He saw the story as something that needed to be "fixed" to weed out those whacky Japanese culture concepts, seriously, reed or listen to any interview with him. Though to be fair, his megalomania isn't limited to Macross, he does it with everything he touches. Edited February 1, 2009 by Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I agree with bits and pieces of Gubababa's view, but in my gutt - I think Kieth is right. I have some sympathy for the whole "Robotech opened the door to letting anime into the west" argument and for the "constraints of the day/syndication" argument. I also admit that I LOVED the Paladium Roll Playing game - which was my first and only introduction to Robotech as a kid. (I notice that the vast majority of Americans on this board are from the West coast - I lived in Cambridge, MASS, and we didn't get any Robotech on TV or anything at all like that. However, a guy in grade school DID have the Robotech roll playing games and got us into them -and I bought some and loved reading them and playing them too). But that's pretty much the point where my "praise" for Robotech stops. First of all - from Macek's own account in Robotech Art III, HE and the people at Harmony Gold were the ones pressing the Japanese to adapt anime to the American cartoon market. So - how is this "opening the door for anime in the west?" - American cartoons - for better or worse- had and have their own established style and rhythm. I'm not saying whether they are better or worse. Some of them are great (e.g. Warner Bros Batman cartoon series for instance), others are worse. Just like in any genre. What I am saying, however, is that it kind of defeats the purpose to "westernize" anime, as Harmony Gold and Macek wanted. I mean - why try to make your unique anime show that you have bought the license to look like every other run of the mill cartoon? In fact - look at how well Gundam has done relative to Robotech in the USA. Heck - look how well A WHOLE BUNCH of Japanese anime - Tenchi Muyo I remember watching on cartoon network while in college - has done in America. And notice that while it might be dubbed, lots of the original anime/Japanese elements were retained. Look at how well NGE did. Point? Anime which was brought over to the USA and retained its' original flavor as much as possible did better than anime which was raped and re-packaged "for a western audience." Or- let me put it another way: If Macross was destined for the SAME failure in the hands of Macek back in the early 80s independent of whether it was "westernized" or not - then which scenario would have been better: 1. Macek brings over Macross, turns it into Robotech, slaps on two unrelated series, has Minmey sing "We will Win," and puts all of the stupid story changes that were put into it into it and Robotech goes down the drain anyways or 2. Macek brings over Macross to the USA, determined to open the door to Japanese animation and show Americans how awesome it is. The changes he makes to Macross are minimal and cosmetic and he fights tooth and nail to push the show to feature on TV as close to the original as possible, arguing that it's big and that anime has a big future. One of those cosmetic changes is that instead of "Overtechnology" we get "Robotechnology" and it's "Robotechnology" instead of "Reaction weapons" that the Zendradi are after. and he fails. ---- For me - the answer is simple: If Macek had taken route number two - we would be hailing him and Robotech as heros on this board. We would consider it to be the first serious attempt to bring anime to the USA and into the western world - destined perhaps, for failure, fraught with mistakes - but a bold and heroic attempt that should be praised. I would then even call myself a "Macross/Robotech" fan and do so proudly and happily. But - as things stand - what we got was: 1. Rape of the original franchise 2. Failure 3. Attempt to steal the franchise and bury it forever in the sewer of an ongoing Robotech saga Case in Point: One of my favorite "indicators" of what Harmony Gold does for a living is if you go to BBTS and do a search by company. If you search "Yamato" - you come up with tons of stuff. Hasbro - same. Mattel - same. And so on and so on. Whether they're a huge company or a lesser known entity - MOST companies actually do productive things with their time, trying to come out with cool stuff from various series. You search for Harmony Gold and you just get "Robotech." What else have they made? What other contribution to human life has been theirs? Every company has a rotten apple. Every company makes a gaffe sometimes. But it seems to be that ALL Harmony Gold does is sue people for trying to sell Yamato toys. NOTHING BEYOND THAT. rant mode off Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I agree with bits and pieces of Gubababa's view, but in my gutt - I think Kieth is right. I have some sympathy for the whole "Robotech opened the door to letting anime into the west" argument and for the "constraints of the day/syndication" argument. I also admit that I LOVED the Paladium Roll Playing game - which was my first and only introduction to Robotech as a kid. (I notice that the vast majority of Americans on this board are from the West coast - I lived in Cambridge, MASS, and we didn't get any Robotech on TV or anything at all like that. However, a guy in grade school DID have the Robotech roll playing games and got us into them -and I bought some and loved reading them and playing them too). But that's pretty much the point where my "praise" for Robotech stops. First of all - from Macek's own account in Robotech Art III, HE and the people at Harmony Gold were the ones pressing the Japanese to adapt anime to the American cartoon market. So - how is this "opening the door for anime in the west?" - American cartoons - for better or worse- had and have their own established style and rhythm. I'm not saying whether they are better or worse. Some of them are great (e.g. Warner Bros Batman cartoon series for instance), others are worse. Just like in any genre. What I am saying, however, is that it kind of defeats the purpose to "westernize" anime, as Harmony Gold and Macek wanted. I mean - why try to make your unique anime show that you have bought the license to look like every other run of the mill cartoon? In fact - look at how well Gundam has done relative to Robotech in the USA. Heck - look how well A WHOLE BUNCH of Japanese anime - Tenchi Muyo I remember watching on cartoon network while in college - has done in America. And notice that while it might be dubbed, lots of the original anime/Japanese elements were retained. Look at how well NGE did. Point? Anime which was brought over to the USA and retained its' original flavor as much as possible did better than anime which was raped and re-packaged "for a western audience." Or- let me put it another way: If Macross was destined for the SAME failure in the hands of Macek back in the early 80s independent of whether it was "westernized" or not - then which scenario would have been better: 1. Macek brings over Macross, turns it into Robotech, slaps on two unrelated series, has Minmey sing "We will Win," and puts all of the stupid story changes that were put into it into it and Robotech goes down the drain anyways or 2. Macek brings over Macross to the USA, determined to open the door to Japanese animation and show Americans how awesome it is. The changes he makes to Macross are minimal and cosmetic and he fights tooth and nail to push the show to feature on TV as close to the original as possible, arguing that it's big and that anime has a big future. One of those cosmetic changes is that instead of "Overtechnology" we get "Robotechnology" and it's "Robotechnology" instead of "Reaction weapons" that the Zendradi are after. and he fails. ---- For me - the answer is simple: If Macek had taken route number two - we would be hailing him and Robotech as heros on this board. We would consider it to be the first serious attempt to bring anime to the USA and into the western world - destined perhaps, for failure, fraught with mistakes - but a bold and heroic attempt that should be praised. I would then even call myself a "Macross/Robotech" fan and do so proudly and happily. But - as things stand - what we got was: 1. Rape of the original franchise 2. Failure 3. Attempt to steal the franchise and bury it forever in the sewer of an ongoing Robotech saga Case in Point: One of my favorite "indicators" of what Harmony Gold does for a living is if you go to BBTS and do a search by company. If you search "Yamato" - you come up with tons of stuff. Hasbro - same. Mattel - same. And so on and so on. Whether they're a huge company or a lesser known entity - MOST companies actually do productive things with their time, trying to come out with cool stuff from various series. You search for Harmony Gold and you just get "Robotech." What else have they made? What other contribution to human life has been theirs? Every company has a rotten apple. Every company makes a gaffe sometimes. But it seems to be that ALL Harmony Gold does is sue people for trying to sell Yamato toys. NOTHING BEYOND THAT. rant mode off Pete On that note, all of the anime you pointed out ran 6-10 years after Robotech. The fact of the matter is no anime survived as it was in the 80s. It was the westernizations of SBY, SDFMSDFSCM (AKA Robotech), and such that gave America its first little taste of anime. We knew it was Japanese, and we knew it was good. You kinda have to slowly open the window a crack to equalize pressure before you can open the door, and if you don't, you'll regret it as the door doesn't open and you're sinking into the lake, cursing A) your own stupidity and B) The poor construction of the bridge you were on a few seconds ago. You go back to the 80s and try to bring an anime over as-is. You won't succeed. It was enough of a culture shock when RT was broadcast. If they had just broadcast Macross, everyone would be severely confused. Moving on, I will never be able to blame Macek. He is a victim of circumstance. As to all of the people nagging at me for VAs: I like the Japanese VAs more for the Japanese, and the Robotech (For the most part) VAs for English. If we're going Japanese, Kamiya is Focker, but in English, Woren is. I also like the Robotech theme, but prefer the Macross theme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Macek may be many things, but a Macross fan isn't one of them. He saw the story as something that needed to be "fixed" to weed out those whacky Japanese culture concepts, seriously, reed or listen to any interview with him. Though to be fair, his megalomania isn't limited to Macross, he does it with everything he touches. True...but at least he didn't say, "This needs to be fixed: cut out the world being destroyed, have Roy get sent back to earth for hospital care, and all the Valkyries that blow up are controlled by robot pilots." LA lot of what made Macross great came through in Robotech. Gatchaman was equally great, but you'd never know it from watching "battle of the Planets." Ditto Goshogun and Macron-1. And Mazinger Z and Tranzor Z. At the very least, he recognizes quality when he sees it. Now why he wants to put that "ol' Macek magic" all over it is beyond me, but at least he helps spread the word. I agree with bits and pieces of Gubababa's view, but in my gutt - I think Kieth is right. I have some sympathy for the whole "Robotech opened the door to letting anime into the west" argument and for the "constraints of the day/syndication" argument. I also admit that I LOVED the Paladium Roll Playing game - which was my first and only introduction to Robotech as a kid. (I notice that the vast majority of Americans on this board are from the West coast - I lived in Cambridge, MASS, and we didn't get any Robotech on TV or anything at all like that. However, a guy in grade school DID have the Robotech roll playing games and got us into them -and I bought some and loved reading them and playing them too). But that's pretty much the point where my "praise" for Robotech stops. First of all - from Macek's own account in Robotech Art III, HE and the people at Harmony Gold were the ones pressing the Japanese to adapt anime to the American cartoon market. So - how is this "opening the door for anime in the west?" - American cartoons - for better or worse- had and have their own established style and rhythm. I'm not saying whether they are better or worse. Some of them are great (e.g. Warner Bros Batman cartoon series for instance), others are worse. Just like in any genre. What I am saying, however, is that it kind of defeats the purpose to "westernize" anime, as Harmony Gold and Macek wanted. I mean - why try to make your unique anime show that you have bought the license to look like every other run of the mill cartoon? In fact - look at how well Gundam has done relative to Robotech in the USA. Heck - look how well A WHOLE BUNCH of Japanese anime - Tenchi Muyo I remember watching on cartoon network while in college - has done in America. And notice that while it might be dubbed, lots of the original anime/Japanese elements were retained. Look at how well NGE did. Point? Anime which was brought over to the USA and retained its' original flavor as much as possible did better than anime which was raped and re-packaged "for a western audience." Or- let me put it another way: If Macross was destined for the SAME failure in the hands of Macek back in the early 80s independent of whether it was "westernized" or not - then which scenario would have been better: 1. Macek brings over Macross, turns it into Robotech, slaps on two unrelated series, has Minmey sing "We will Win," and puts all of the stupid story changes that were put into it into it and Robotech goes down the drain anyways or 2. Macek brings over Macross to the USA, determined to open the door to Japanese animation and show Americans how awesome it is. The changes he makes to Macross are minimal and cosmetic and he fights tooth and nail to push the show to feature on TV as close to the original as possible, arguing that it's big and that anime has a big future. One of those cosmetic changes is that instead of "Overtechnology" we get "Robotechnology" and it's "Robotechnology" instead of "Reaction weapons" that the Zendradi are after. and he fails. ---- For me - the answer is simple: If Macek had taken route number two - we would be hailing him and Robotech as heros on this board. We would consider it to be the first serious attempt to bring anime to the USA and into the western world - destined perhaps, for failure, fraught with mistakes - but a bold and heroic attempt that should be praised. I would then even call myself a "Macross/Robotech" fan and do so proudly and happily. But - as things stand - what we got was: 1. Rape of the original franchise 2. Failure 3. Attempt to steal the franchise and bury it forever in the sewer of an ongoing Robotech saga Case in Point: One of my favorite "indicators" of what Harmony Gold does for a living is if you go to BBTS and do a search by company. If you search "Yamato" - you come up with tons of stuff. Hasbro - same. Mattel - same. And so on and so on. Whether they're a huge company or a lesser known entity - MOST companies actually do productive things with their time, trying to come out with cool stuff from various series. You search for Harmony Gold and you just get "Robotech." What else have they made? What other contribution to human life has been theirs? Every company has a rotten apple. Every company makes a gaffe sometimes. But it seems to be that ALL Harmony Gold does is sue people for trying to sell Yamato toys. NOTHING BEYOND THAT. rant mode off Pete I'm with Schizophrenic MC on this one. In 1985, the home video market couldn't support a long anime series, and no company thought anyone in the west would be interested in seeing cartoons in another language with subtitles. SOMEONE had to crack through the floodgates of presenting anime to the west without the heavy revisions and edits of "Battle of the Planets" or "Voltron." "Speed Racer" kind of did it first, followed by "Star Blazers," followed by "Robotech." And a few years after that, the floodgates broke, and unedited anime started to enter the western marketplace. Robotech didn't do it first, nor did they do it best. But they got a lot of people interested in anime who moved on to bigger and better things. Of course, a lot of that was done in reaction AGAINST Robotech, but if Robotech had been just another really kiddified story, no one would've bothered. The fact that it at least went part of the way towards leaving the original intact makes it an important baby step towards the way things are now. Now again, I can't for the life of me figure oou why anyone would PREFER Robotech (apart from pure nostalgia) to the originals, nor can I understand why anyone would want a continuation...but for 1985, Robotech was pretty revolutionary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Macek may be many things, but a Macross fan isn't one of them. He saw the story as something that needed to be "fixed" to weed out those whacky Japanese culture concepts, seriously, reed or listen to any interview with him. Though to be fair, his megalomania isn't limited to Macross, he does it with everything he touches. I'm just wondering if the same thing happened to the English dub of Bleach under Macek? Robotech probably should have ended after the 85 episode series. But I'm guessing Carl Macek got greedy by the end of it and wanted the franchise to be something more timeless. Unfortunately, the work after showed that he knew very little about making original animation and keeping a franchise alive without relying on other people's work for inspiration. The rest had to be done in other media like comics and novels of varying quality afterward. In the end, the best he could do was milk it for all it was worth until he knew it was time to walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaman Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Robotech didn't do it first, nor did they do it best. But they got a lot of people interested in anime who moved on to bigger and better things. Of course, a lot of that was done in reaction AGAINST Robotech, but if Robotech had been just another really kiddified story, no one would've bothered. The fact that it at least went part of the way towards leaving the original intact makes it an important baby step towards the way things are now. I watch and enjoy both. Back when Robotech was originally on I had given up on anime, I had seen Star Blazers and loved it, but I also thought it was just a fluke... When a friend recommended Robotech - saying it was as good as SB I gave it a try, even though I was not expecting much... Even with the rough edges I saw that it was something different, a mix of action and character growth - which we have to remember was pretty much unheard of on prime time televison at the time (looking back I can't think of any examples at all till Babylon 5) From there I looked for and found an Anime group, and saw the original Yamato movies (Farewell got me hooked on that franchise all over again), Vampire Hunter D, and others. So I give RT it's due, it was what opened the floodgates (and videotape) to Anime in the US. Generally I'll take Macross over RT, but Macross 7 is right out - I'd rather watch the original RT over that any day, so each franchise has it's clunkers. The RT books on the other hand are excellent (although End of the Circle gets too wierd for my taste). I better quit rambling before I really go off kilter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacerta Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 On the base I worked on they had all the Robotech DVDs at our library, so I got the first two discs to watch and see what I remembered from the series. I stopped watching three episodes in, mainly because I couldn't stand the awful dialogue and the exposition from the narrator annoyed me ("Kids, this is a Zentraedi battleship!") I took the discs back that same night. I was ok with the ADV dub, but I thought, maybe, they could have put a censoring option on the audio track so the unnecessary swear words could be bleeped out...I wouldn't feel comfortable showing that dub to kids at all. I watch and enjoy both. Back when Robotech was originally on I had given up on anime, I had seen Star Blazers and loved it, but I also thought it was just a fluke... When a friend recommended Robotech - saying it was as good as SB I gave it a try, even though I was not expecting much... Turns out I'm going through my Star Blazers DVDs...they're as good as I remember. I could not WAIT to watch that show every single day when I was a kid. I loved how Star Trek III completely stole the "disable the brand new ship and escape" idea from season 2. When Robotech first came on, friends of mine thought it was another sequel to Star Blazers. Generally I'll take Macross over RT, but Macross 7 is right out - I'd rather watch the original RT over that any day, so each franchise has it's clunkers. Careful with labeling Macross 7 a 'clunker' 'round these parts...as a new member of the Fire Bomber fan club I think this is in order..... BOMBAAAAAA!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 On the base I worked on they had all the Robotech DVDs at our library, so I got the first two discs to watch and see what I remembered from the series. I stopped watching three episodes in, mainly because I couldn't stand the awful dialogue and the exposition from the narrator annoyed me ("Kids, this is a Zentraedi battleship!") I took the discs back that same night. I was ok with the ADV dub, but I thought, maybe, they could have put a censoring option on the audio track so the unnecessary swear words could be bleeped out...I wouldn't feel comfortable showing that dub to kids at all. I, personally, like that announcer better than the uber-annoying one in Macross. If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right. Turns out I'm going through my Star Blazers DVDs...they're as good as I remember. I could not WAIT to watch that show every single day when I was a kid. I loved how Star Trek III completely stole the "disable the brand new ship and escape" idea from season 2. When Robotech first came on, friends of mine thought it was another sequel to Star Blazers. lolwut? Your friends are idiots if they think that! Careful with labeling Macross 7 a 'clunker' 'round these parts...as a new member of the Fire Bomber fan club I think this is in order..... BOMBAAAAAA!!!! Well, it is incredibly stupid, and at the bottom of the show's mythos. I mean, come on! A rock band piloting transforming giant robots with guitar like controls is bad enough, but then, its only weapon is to shoot speakers at the enemy and sing them into submission. Except they don't scream "Yakk Deculture!" However, I must say this: "Totsugeki love heart!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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