drifand Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) Yup, it's unfortunate but this time the shoe is on the other foot. Previously, folks who valued a better built product over 'accuracy' got the shaft (repeatedly) from Brand Y. Now those who have found ways to deal with that uncertainty are having to decide whether they can stomach Bandai's for-sure-it's-not-a-model approach. Some, like me are rejoicing. Edited October 30, 2008 by drifand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Yup, it's unfortunate but this time the shoe is on the other foot. Previously, folks who valued a better built product over 'accuracy' got the shaft (repeatedly) from Brand Y. Now those who have found ways to deal with that uncertainty are having to decide whether they can stomach Bandai's for-sure-it's-not-a-model approach. Some, like me are rejoicing. It's just too bad it's even an issue since brand B has shown repeatedly they're capable of making a very accurate representation as well, well, at least when they bring their 'A' game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drifand Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 No matter, I'm already loving their 'B Game' if it's what it is. I hate having to worry over my toy's health (or lack thereof) :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Valkyrie Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Even if its not perfect they should get a credit for it, its their first official chogokin transforming VF, no need to mention Chogokin Z Gundam and the upcoming Z Plus. IMO it turned out this due to the stability for the transformation. I know most of you are upset cuz of the design and the looks, most of you since the first Yamato 1/60 VF-1 until today are satisfied, be sides the QC. So if another company produced a VF and doesn`t turn out as you wish for ... then the negative feed backs starts. So please all give them a chance no if they are a big or a small company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Still wondering if the shield will have to be removed and re-attached during transformation like on the model kit. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobber Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 It's just too bad it's even an issue since brand B has shown repeatedly they're capable of making a very accurate representation as well, well, at least when they bring their 'A' game. I'm with you Eugimon, Guys all he is trying to say is that this IS NOT and accurate VF-25. Yes you can tell it should be a VF-25 but, I also like what Graham said a few pages back, that we don't need perfection but that some of these inaccuracies are just bad for no reason. Shin, you prove our point when you say that you like this reprisentation better than the actual VF-25 from the anime. That's fine but you are proving our point... it's not accurate. Like Eugi said, that's not subjective it's fact... even stated by you. The legs in fighter mode hanging too low and the strangely shaped nose cone are really the deal breakers FOR ME.... especially the nose cone that just seemed like sloppy work on the sculptors part. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drifand Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I think every thing has been said, and fans from the Y and B camps know the score, so no point raising any more heckles: What you see is probably what you'll get, gaps, inaccuracies and all. Those who will buy this B-toy happily over Y-style will continue their merry way; those who prefer Y-style products can vote with their wallets... just like how the 'Yamato'd' crowd learned to deal with the love-hate situation. If at the very least this market competition makes Yamato seriously relook into their product shortcomings, then Macross fandom is all the richer for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thankheaven Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I don't really care who makes it as long as it looks good and this doesn't look good in my book. And definately not worth $170 including shipping for me. It looks more like a 60-70 toy and for that price i would have picked it up. But for over a 100 i demand something better. So its the models for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-25S Full Armour Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) I'm with you Eugimon, Guys all he is trying to say is that this IS NOT and accurate VF-25. Yes you can tell it should be a VF-25 but, I also like what Graham said a few pages back, that we don't need perfection but that some of these inaccuracies are just bad for no reason. Shin, you prove our point when you say that you like this reprisentation better than the actual VF-25 from the anime. That's fine but you are proving our point... it's not accurate. Like Eugi said, that's not subjective it's fact... even stated by you. The legs in fighter mode hanging too low and the strangely shaped nose cone are really the deal breakers FOR ME.... especially the nose cone that just seemed like sloppy work on the sculptors part. Chris My thoughts too. I'm a practical person and value function and durability over looks alone, but compromises so painfully obvious and severe, even when not absolutely necessary, was what put me off ordering these. I'm willing spend just under 200 AUD on them and frankly I now know I'm not going to get my money's worth. Edited October 30, 2008 by VF-25S Full Armour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAWLSausage Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I've been lurking the threads pertaining to the VF-25's for quite some time and I felt compelled to chip in into the discussion. This will be my first Valk and probably not my last. I'm not getting this toy to play with, but rather display because I fell in love with the fighter mode's design in the show. In a way, durability does not matter too much to me specifically. You could say that I should just get the model because its a better representation of this fighter, but as mentioned before the stickers turned me off. Mainly because you can't see the panel lines under them (V fins on my MG Gundam Unicorn) and they tend to peel or discolor over time. I haven't tried painting before and would hate to ruin something like I did with my HG Gundams about 5-6 years ago with my first foray into model painting. As for this toy, I don't like some of the compromises made and really hope the people transforming it are just messing up because the gap between the legs and shield in fighter mode is annoying. Battroid mode without the neck just looks funny and adds to the chunkiness of the toy. The long ankles also is an eyesore. On the other hand, I do admit with these design flaws, the toy brings about its own personality. I still want the VF-25 because it still captures some of the design points from the line art. I love the swoop down from the main fuselage to the nose and the extreme rear position of the wings. The smooth curvature of the body where the intakes are and the long conical nose. I try to look past the gaps and hope for the best that there is still some slack in the joints to decrease the gaps. Like most of you, I wish Bandai had done a better job, especially for the money this thing costs, but being my first Valk I'll take at least Alto's and hope for a V.2 to come out in the next couple years. Sorry for the long post from a newbie like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinJester Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I read things like "it looks like a $60 toy" and I feel like I'm in crazy-land. Fully painted, covered in details, large size, diecast content, and it's a $60 toy. And yet, if I were to put a $50, unpainted, sticker-only VF-25 on the same shelf as my Yamatos it'd fit right in with its bare plastic brethren. I understand that people can not like the design decisions that went into it. I can understand that people are miffed about undetailed landing gear (hey, I'd like some nice sculpted metal landing gear on it myself!). But I can't understand how anyone can HONESTLY look at the level of finish and printing on this toy and seriously say it looks "cheap", especially by comparisons to Yamatos, without believing they're spouting hyperbole for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 QuinJester wrote: I understand that people can not like the design decisions that went into it. I can understand that people are miffed about undetailed landing gear (hey, I'd like some nice sculpted metal landing gear on it myself!). But I can't understand how anyone can HONESTLY look at the level of finish and printing on this toy and seriously say it looks "cheap", especially by comparisons to Yamatos, without believing they're spouting hyperbole for the sake of it. With all due respect to people of a different opinion but... I sorta agree with Quin here. However - Ghostkiller has made a good point: he builds model jets that are highly accurate, and so he probably has completely different criteria for judging the fighter mode than someone like me, who doesn't build model airplanes. That said, my gutt feeling is in agreement with Quinn here - Bandai's VF-25 looks good. If Yamato made this - we'd be happy. Sure, we'd be noting that this or that is a bit off or whatever - but generally we'd be pleased. The VF-25F - as far as what my eyes tell me when I watch the Anime - looks pretty much exactly the same as this Bandai toy. It's not chunky, it's not fat, it's not kibble-ish, it isn't off in details, it's not wrong. But then again, I'm a guy who hears "the legs should be flush!" and thinks "Bandai should instal a toilet seat in the cockpit for those emergency poop moments when you just have to go, but are in the middle of a fold, and therefore can do it, press a button, and the toilet is attached to these tubes which go through the legs where waste can be disposed." Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nani?! Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Hmmm... anyone notice this? Looks like a tab to hold the legs in place, doesn't it? It seems really retarded that no one transformed it right for photos yet... I hope that that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I don't see the tab, am I missing it? In fact, it looks like there's a lip there preventing the leg from coming any higher up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) Hmmm... anyone notice this? Looks like a tab to hold the legs in place, doesn't it? It seems really retarded that no one transformed it right for photos yet... I hope that that is the case. Yeah, it does look like it should sit flush... so my last hope against hopes... there's two modes for the legs, one mode makes it sit flush in fighter mode and the other mode, the one displayed, you have to click the legs down in order to get the landing gear to work properly, given their stubby stature. If Yamato made this - we'd be happy. Sure, we'd be noting that this or that is a bit off or whatever - but generally we'd be pleased. Respectfully, I disagree. I don't know why it always seems to come down to brand B versus brand Y, I'm sure that thread about whether we thought Bandai taking over the license was a good idea or not doesn't help, but myself and others are disappointed in the DX sculpt because of the sculpt, and not because it's from Bandai or anyone else. Trust me, if Yamato turned this out, I wouldn't even consider it... because something with that many design compromises (not even one nice mode for me to hang my hat on) AND with yamato's sketchy QC??? NO WAY, NO HOW. Edited October 30, 2008 by eugimon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I can easily see the legs being able to come up more properly. In fact it seems so likely I'm not that bothered with the whole thing at all. It is possible the legs are like that for landing gear purposes as eugimon said, or it could be the legs have to droop like that slightly for the armor or super packs. They may have not finished the super parts yet but I can easily see how the legs will need to be moved slightly for them to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I read things like "it looks like a $60 toy" and I feel like I'm in crazy-land. Fully painted, covered in details, large size, diecast content, and it's a $60 toy. And yet, if I were to put a $50, unpainted, sticker-only VF-25 on the same shelf as my Yamatos it'd fit right in with its bare plastic brethren. I understand that people can not like the design decisions that went into it. I can understand that people are miffed about undetailed landing gear (hey, I'd like some nice sculpted metal landing gear on it myself!). But I can't understand how anyone can HONESTLY look at the level of finish and printing on this toy and seriously say it looks "cheap", especially by comparisons to Yamatos, without believing they're spouting hyperbole for the sake of it. It's not the finish, we're talking about the DESIGN, the gappy, ill-fitting, turtle head, giant hinges, what the hell is with those michael jackson ankles, DESIGN that looks like a 60$ toy. The very fact that we're looking at the publicity shots and we can't tell if it's miss-transformed or not is a testament to what we're talking about. If we were just talking about the paint job and the tampo printing? A+, it does have a high end finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqidd Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 So I have been reading the VF-25 thread for…..ever. And there certainly is a ton of controversy about the looks of the 1/60 toy. I have never seen the show so to me it’s not horrible. In a vacuum (pardon the pun) it’s a cool lookin Mech. But just like there being a part of me that is a completest which drives me to get more 1/48’s than I really want, I do have a part of me that would like to have an accurate VF-25. Who wouldn’t want an accurate one over a non accurate one even if you didn’t know the difference? And that aside, from what I can see the 1/60 does have some pretty sloppy gaps, etc. Word on the street is that the 1/72 models are very accurate and the few pictures I have seen look great to me. Trouble is that I am in no way a model builder. It’s odd because I have incredible fabrication skills, but generally I am working in metal and on a much bigger scale (1:1 for example). So what position does that leave a guy like me in? I can shell out $175+ for a 1/60. I can skip getting one all together. I can pay someone to build a model for me and paint it. At some point I guess I am going to need to make a decision. Problem is I am missing part of the equation. That part is how much would it cost me to get a model professionally built? Any of you out there in model land interested in the job? If so can you fire me off an estimate? I understand if you want to PM it and I promise I won’t make it public knowledge. I am not at all certain which way I want to go with this but I will certainly never know until I know what getting a model built is going to cost me. If one of you kick @$$ model builders (which from my point of view is just about all of you) can fire me off an estimate that would be great. Even if you don’t want to do the job you could still give me a number to work with. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 $175? I thought it retails for $102 or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqidd Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 $175? I thought it retails for $102 or something like that. HLJ has them up for $124 then shipping. Maybe $175 is a little high but shipping has got to be about $35-40 I would think/ HLJ Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) Overdrive has them at 102.99. http://www.over-drive-inc.com/store/produc...847d10fb1d44640 Oops, sold out. Edited October 30, 2008 by jenius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqidd Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Overdrive has them at 102.99. http://www.over-drive-inc.com/store/produc...847d10fb1d44640 Oops, sold out. Never seen their site before. Lots of stuff. Doesn't matter though. I am 100% wait and see on the VF-25. No pre orders for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie addict Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 reason why I too consider it a 60 dollars toy: 1. It's not line accurate, not even by a mile, looks weird on all tree modes, we don't even know how poseable it is...it's ugly 2. It's expensive, 170+shipping and no super packs, attachements? stands? doubt it 3. It lacks serious engineering, huge compromises were made and we don't know why 4. At least if they could give a sane reason why they made those compromises, all we heard was 'we intended to make it chunky' WTF, who the hells like fat thing, I see girl intending to be fat, but I don't what them, why do I want a fat toy and pay for it? 5. they made two models that look better and in smaller scale... 6. they got the frontier franchise for who knows how long, no other toy company will compete with them, look at Macross 7, they are NOT improving the toy availability for Macross Only thing that looks promising for it is that it MAY be sturdy and not explode like the Yamato's, but for 170+, I want beauty and durability, same goes for Yamato, I want a 150+ toy, not a model... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nani?! Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Kawamori has been making valks more and more plausible/possible in the 3D world lately, this started with Zero. He now starts with LEGO, he no longer uses retractable hands, etc. All seem to be "concessions" to being able to actually make them in 3D, as opposed to the YF-19 and YF-21, which simply cannot maintain proportions across modes in real life. The fact that the MOST PLAUSIBLE/REALISTIC one ever translated so poorly into actual 3D, says a lot about what Bandai's doing. I just saw this post. This pretty much sums up it perfectly in regards to toys of modern valks. They dont have the excuse of anime magic anymore. The vf-0 (crappy shoulder and all) is still one of my favorites because it was such a great translation of what we see on screen. The Sv-51 is, as complex and difficult to reproduce as a toy for any valk with as much screen-time and yamato got it right. The vf-25 should have been easier especially with so much material available for reference. The whole "it's balanced" argument isn't really applicable to the vf-25 because there's no anime magic or distorted proportions to balance. That argument was valid up to the Macross plus series... and yes... if you think bandai's representation of the vf-25 is gorgeous, good... but it's still a subjective opinion. I have less slack on Bandai.... Disappointed really. A company with as much resources and a track record like it should have done better with a CG valk being the subject. None of the compromises seen seem DIRECTLY linked with strength issues and such. Just lazy referencing. That being said. I think overall though... Bandai's foray back into macross territory was a good thing. A lot of people here who get the vf-25 will definitely voice their opinions regarding things that bandai inevitably did better (I know there is still room for this thing to 100% suck even in build quality). Yamato's products will only get better for it... and we benefit in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vifam7 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) I just saw this post. This pretty much sums up it perfectly in regards to toys of modern valks. They dont have the excuse of anime magic anymore. The vf-0 (crappy shoulder and all) is still one of my favorites because it was such a great translation of what we see on screen. The Sv-51 is, as complex and difficult to reproduce as a toy for any valk with as much screen-time and yamato got it right. The vf-25 should have been easier especially with so much material available for reference. I don't really buy the CG argument. Mainly because I think sometimes CG art can not define the realities of converting it to an actual toy with all the gimmicks and engineering required. Then there's the fact that this is not a frail plastic model. I think that when you ask for use of diecast metal and sturdy construction, it becomes much more difficult to stick slavishly to the CG/line art. Now maybe I'm wrong. But I'm not an expert toy engineer to be certain. I'll give Bandai the benefit of doubt and believe they did they best they could right now. Perhaps in the future they'll have better ideas, revise it, and bring out a Version 2.0 that'll satisfy those who are not happy today. Edited October 30, 2008 by Vifam7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy00z Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Still wondering if the shield will have to be removed and re-attached during transformation like on the model kit. Graham How would that work though? The hands are tucked into the shield. In battroid mode, the shield moves up to the forearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 2. It's expensive, 170+shipping and no super packs, attachements? stands? doubt it $102.99... $102.99.... $102.99 Where do you people shop where this thing costs anywhere near $170??? STOP SHOPPING THERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cube Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 reason why I too consider it a 60 dollars toy: 2. It's expensive, 170+shipping and no super packs, attachements? stands? doubt it you consider it $60 toy because it costs a lot...interesting reasoning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostkiller Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) you consider it $60 toy because it costs a lot...interesting reasoning it is a toy cause kids will love it... but not serious collectors like me and many members on this bord at least it should not be called DX Edited October 30, 2008 by Ghostkiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoducks Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) Wow, do this things grow when you are busy repairing all the f*ck ups made by the people you hired to "fix" your house in the first place!! The MW Civil War is soooo juicy right now... but I hate house painters so much that there's no hate left on my hate-o-meter to hate the hateful bitching anymore What I think: - The crotch would look better if it looked like the model but I still like the DX take a lot. - Crap seeing that the fast packs will be a limited/hard to get item or a bundle in the future. - Screw the landing gear, I want a stand and I don’t see one for Alto nor Ozma damn it! - If the Luca was released first I would get it in a heard beat. I find the radar dish a nice change (and the VF-25 NEEDS fast packs and/or Super Armor to be more than just a VF-0/1/19/51 rip-off). - I don't care for diecast. In my book plastic equals good in transforming toys. Yamato f*cks it up sometime but when it works, it's perfect. I was glad that at least the whole lower legs on the Dx weren't diecast like they usually do on chogokins. - I was going to get just Alto but the Ozma colors look really good. Damn decisions and not knowing if they’ll make the armor! - And last but not least: I hate house painters. Edited October 30, 2008 by Twoducks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggooftoybox Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Talk about a long thread with both sides providing their points. I would say it is not 100% accurate. 75-80% maybe. So it all depends on your percentage of accuracy tolerance. I for one will get it, it aint 100% accurate but at least I don't have to worry about it falling apart on me when i transform it around a few dozen times. But one thing is for sure, that nose landing gear is WAY too short. but i'll probably put this on a stand anyways. Folks, is this completely sold out for pre-order yet or what's the deal? I missed my chance to pre-order the 1/72 model kit and now i have to wait for the next re-stock which i'm not sure when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Hi all! I'm interested in knowing where do you guys buy the toys? I'm new here. Could anyone tell me where I could buy them cheaply? Coz I like them but I don't have much money to buy them, need to save a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggooftoybox Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Hi all! I'm interested in knowing where do you guys buy the toys? I'm new here. Could anyone tell me where I could buy them cheaply? Coz I like them but I don't have much money to buy them, need to save a lot. It all depends on where you live. Check your local specialty toy/hobby store. Prices are usually fairly reasonable. Order online from Hobby Link Japan or Hobby Search or some other Japanese toy online retailer. Ebay is always an option. Best to shop around. I will tell you that the demand for the DX 1/60 VF25 is likely to be very high as the 1/72 VF25 model was sold out fairly quickly and the mark up went up quite fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqidd Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Hi all! I'm interested in knowing where do you guys buy the toys? I'm new here. Could anyone tell me where I could buy them cheaply? Coz I like them but I don't have much money to buy them, need to save a lot. Click the link: Where to buy a VF-25 1/60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqidd Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 - Crap seeing that the fast packs will be a limited/hard to get item or a bundle in the future. Why in gods name would they make the FP's limited? That's got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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