In Defense of Macross II

[Zinjo]

Makes you wonder what if N.U.N.S. circa 2059 actually deemed a ship with that size and firepower necessary and did build one.

In the Nue universe with the Galaxy network, it would not be unecessary. However in a "movie" or for a colony world cut off from the Galaxy network, that only ever knew of the Zentreadi threat, it would be. A war doctrine of taking out a superior force while sacrificing the least amount of resources would make sense if you are all alone. That was the thinking behind the Grand Cannons... Only problem with the Grand Cannons is that they were a stationary target and invited counter attack on the planet they were situated on.

Edited October 14, 2008 by Zinjo

[Morpheus]

In the Nue universe with the Galaxy network, it would be unecessary. However in a "movie" or for a colony world cut off from the Galaxy network, that only ever knew of the Zentreadi threat, it would be. A war doctrine of taking out a superior force while sacrificing the least amount of resources would make sense if you are all alone. That was the thinking behind the Grand Cannons...

Forget Macross Cannon or other uber destructive weapon, the ultimate psychological warfare system: Basara Defense.

[Macross007]

Forget Macross Cannon or other uber destructive weapon, the ultimate psychological warfare system: Basara Defense.

BOMBA !!!

Edited October 14, 2008 by Macross007

[Dangard Ace]

Forget Macross Cannon or other uber destructive weapon, the ultimate psychological warfare system: Basara Defense.

OR the ultimate provoker.

"crap what's that horrible noise and annoying red plane? Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

[Zinjo]

Forget Macross Cannon or other uber destructive weapon, the ultimate psychological warfare system: Basara Defense.

Sure if you want to irritate the enemy into sepuku....

[anime52k8]

In the Nue universe with the Galaxy network, it would not be unecessary. However in a "movie" or for a colony world cut off from the Galaxy network, that only ever knew of the Zentreadi threat, it would be. A war doctrine of taking out a superior force while sacrificing the least amount of resources would make sense if you are all alone. That was the thinking behind the Grand Cannons... Only problem with the Grand Cannons is that they were a stationary target and invited counter attack on the planet they were situated on.

that and only one of like 6 or 7 grand cannons were finished when the zentreadi showed up. had they been able to use every cannon, they would have been able to take out something like 80%+ percent of the zentreadi fleet.

I actualy think a cross between a NMC and a Macross cannon would be pretty cool. an NMC size ship, but with the gunship sized cannons on each sholder and each arm.

[Mr March]

The Macross II mecha have some really funky size figures. The Mardook Fleet Base is supposedly only 50 kilometers (grossly undersized IMO) and the Macross cannons are supposedly 4 kilometers (sounds roughly correct). I believe these figures were taken from Entertainment Bible #51. There are few statistics for Macross II anyway and most seem strange to say the least. It doesn't appear as though much thought was put into them.

[d3v]

that and only one of like 6 or 7 grand cannons were finished when the zentreadi showed up. had they been able to use every cannon, they would have been able to take out something like 80%+ percent of the zentreadi fleet.

I actualy think a cross between a NMC and a Macross cannon would be pretty cool. an NMC size ship, but with the gunship sized cannons on each sholder and each arm.

IMO, the best option would be the ability for an NMC to control multiple gunships at the same time via remote.

[Duke Togo]

OR the ultimate provoker.

"poo what's that horrible noise and annoying red plane? Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

"F*ckin' A"

[d3v]

OR the ultimate provoker.

"poo what's that horrible noise and annoying red plane? Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

With his luck, he'll end up totally avoiding it, or worse, suddenly saved by a galactic space whale.

[Dangard Ace]

With his luck, he'll end up totally avoiding it, or worse, suddenly saved by a galactic space whale.

I feel sorry for the city or planet that he's flying in front of. All those nukes/beams have to hit somewhere.

Sylvie Gena though would just fly right into their face and take them out.

[anime52k8]

IMO, the best option would be the ability for an NMC to control multiple gunships at the same time via remote.

but then you'd have a giant version of luca and his valk, and that would suck.

[Morpheus]

---Before the post derails much further---

What's interest me in Macross 2 is that they manage to show some colony on the moon.

BTW, anyone know the structure that was shown during the first phase of "Minmay Defense"? It looks like a space station or sort.

[RedWolf]

---Before the post derails much further---

What's interest me in Macross 2 is that they manage to show some colony on the moon.

BTW, anyone know the structure that was shown during the first phase of "Minmay Defense"? It looks like a space station or sort.

From what I know UN Spacy in Macross II has a defense perimeter at Jupiter.

Which to me is a little useless as enemies can fold on top of Earth without the hassle.

Macross Plus defense grid of satelites and ships makes more sense.

[Killer Robot]

Having just watched Macross II I can't really add much that hasn't been said already here. It felt flat at some points, it felt simply strange at others. While it has stuff in common with the rest of the franchise and it explores principles common to the other series, I think I like it being the parallel universe that might have happened if humanity had never snatched the factory asteroid and started an emigration program after SW1.

The main thing I'd like to say is that it was a pleasant shock to put on a Macross anime and see human females flying fighters. Even if I somewhat deflated again when the actual important one suddenly went into how much she inherited the impulsive drive of her Meltran grandmother.

[RedWolf]

In Macross II universe they did snatch the factory satellite but it occured in the 2050's instead of 2011.

Fairy squadron is a bunch of unkillable bridge bunnies. The Gloria's bridge bunnies got blasted though.

[Germán]

I'm fans of Ishtar!!

[Gubaba]

I'm fans of Ishtar!!

I'm overwhlemed by the force of your logic.

Ishtar is, as you so justly imply, a real babe.

Like most people though, I like her better with long hair. Or maybe it's just the translucent Emulator garb...

[Agent ONE]

BOMBA !!!

Isn't there a way to ignore a specific member's posts? Like a button I click so I don't see things like this... It upsets me. I think I may eat a Haitian refugee boy later.

[Agent ONE]

LOL they posted my comment!

[Dangard Ace]

Control Panel. Manage Ignored Users. Add User you want to ignore.

[d3v]

I'm overwhlemed by the force of your logic.

Ishtar is, as you so justly imply, a real babe.

Like most people though, I like her better with long hair. Or maybe it's just the translucent Emulator garb...

How about both?

[505thAirborne]

Ishtar & Sylvie, Super HOT!!!!! Simple enough for ya?

[d3v]

This isn't a praise or criticism per se, but I kinda like it how ace pilots are tantamount to pop stars in Macross II.

[Gubaba]

This isn't a praise or criticism per se, but I kinda like it how ace pilots are tantamount to pop stars in Macross II.

Yeah...I always thought that was kinda weird. First time I watched the show, I hated it ("Why hell are these fighter pilots such big celebrities???") but on reflection I realized that...well, it's kind of the reverse of Minmay saving the day.

I'm still not sure if I liked it or not, nor am I sure if it really "works." Maybe if they'd done a few follow-up stories that explained it a little better...

[d3v]

Yeah...I always thought that was kinda weird. First time I watched the show, I hated it ("Why hell are these fighter pilots such big celebrities???") but on reflection I realized that...well, it's kind of the reverse of Minmay saving the day.

I'm still not sure if I liked it or not, nor am I sure if it really "works." Maybe if they'd done a few follow-up stories that explained it a little better...

Maybe it would have been better explained had they made MacII a TV series instead of just a 6 episode OVA. After watching it again (something I haven't done since I taped it off Sci-Fi when I was in the States some year ago), some things feels as if they would have worked better had there been more episodes.

Edited October 20, 2008 by d3v

[ghostlightning]

I've seen 3 episodes so far...

and I don't dislike it. I did find the 'Roman Holiday' reference extra cheesy but even this isn't a complaint.

Here's my question:

Macross II isn't supposed to be canon right? The song that the idol sings (I can't figure out her name yet) is EXACTLY the song that the Jamming Birds sing in Macross 7. No doubt about it. (It may be the same song Millya sang for her audition to the Jamming Birds and during her karaoke segment in her omake video but I'm not sure).

Has anyone else noticed this? I don't know what to make of it.

[RedWolf]

I've seen 3 episodes so far...

and I don't dislike it. I did find the 'Roman Holiday' reference extra cheesy but even this isn't a complaint.

Here's my question:

Macross II isn't supposed to be canon right? The song that the idol sings (I can't figure out her name yet) is EXACTLY the song that the Jamming Birds sing in Macross 7. No doubt about it. (It may be the same song Millya sang for her audition to the Jamming Birds and during her karaoke segment in her omake video but I'm not sure).

Has anyone else noticed this? I don't know what to make of it.

That would be Wendy Rider's Riding My Valkyrie. I heard Banana Moon in Macross Dynamite 7.

Jamming Birds are always treated as second rate B-Squad to Sound Force's Elite A-Squad.

Well at least they became useful at the end. They just needed Mylene as their leader.

In fact three girls joined Mylene to form the all girl band Jamming Angels in MD7: Mylene Beat manga.

[ghostlightning]

That would be Wendy Rider's Riding My Valkyrie. I heard Banana Moon in Macross Dynamite 7.

Jamming Birds are always treated as second rate B-Squad to Sound Force's Elite A-Squad.

Well at least they became useful at the end. They just needed Mylene as their leader.

In fact three girls joined Mylene to form the all girl band Jamming Angels in MD7: Mylene Beat manga.

So it's not the same song? I could swear they sounded the same save for variation in the arrangement.

[Gubaba]

So it's not the same song? I could swear they sounded the same save for variation in the arrangement.

Yes, it's the same song. Macross 7 is peppered with Macross II (and Plus) music.

And no, Macross II is no longer considered canonical.

[Bri]

This topic made me dig up my Kiseki VHS tapes again. Now I rememeber again what I disliked: the horrible dub (couldnt get a sub) and the setting of 70 years after Macross. I don't like large time jumps in sequels.

But in fairness it's not a bad show. Cool Valks and Mikimoto character designs.

[Cyclone Trooper]

Honestly, the only part of MII that I hated was the Marduk themselves. Before seeing this series, I had completely understood and bought into the idea that the Zentraedi, Meltrandi and human race were all "legacies" of the Protoculture; and that the Protoculture as a race was as dead as disco. But suddenly, MII renigs on that concept and REPLACES the Protoculture with the Marduk (or Mardook, depending on what source you go with), who are obviously very alive and thriving. One constant denominator about the Zentraedi and Meltrandi is the fact that their ship designs, mecha designs and weaponry haven't evolved at all in thousands of years. Its like their Factory Satellites and Production Planets had already reached their zenith of technological and destructive potential and simply churned out billions of Regults, Q-Raus/Reas, Command Ships, Destroyers, etc. over the centuries with relatively little variance.

But the Marduk arrive in our solar system with a fleet of Zentran-esque ships that are either refits of existing ships-of-the-line or "next-gen" variants. And legless battlepods... Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but the original SDFM storyline (and the city scene in DYRL) had established that the Protoculture viewed the Zentraedi and Meltrandi ultimately as failures in their genetic experimentation because they became so uncontrollably violent. This caused the Schism War, which pitted Zentraedi, Meltrandi and the Protoculture's own Supervision Army in a 3-way struggle that ultimately brought an end to the Protoculture completely. That being said...who exactly were the Marduk supposed to be? Remnants of the Protoculture? A brand new race that had somehow defeated and enslaved the Zentraedi and Meltrandi?

And I'm in the minority here about how every panel, window, kitchen sink, garden hose, nut and bolt now open up on the SDF-1 like a badly-designed Transformer just to fire the Macross Cannon. Why overwork the plumbing?

I'm actually kinda glad that Kawamori banished this to the "alternate universe" bin. It just seemed so convoluted, considering everything that had already been established...sort of like what Enterprise did to the Star Trek franchise.

Edited March 20, 2009 by Cyclone Trooper

[ghostlightning]

Yes, it's the same song. Macross 7 is peppered with Macross II (and Plus) music.

And no, Macross II is no longer considered canonical.

Ayt, thanks a lot!

[RedWolf]

On how Female Ace pilots are treated as celebs it is similar on how Zentradi treat their Meltran aces on SDFM TV.

Warera-Loli-Kon were like Wow when they found out it was Millia herself.

Indeed in Fleet of the Strongest Women Millia and Chlore had a history of kill count competition.

Macross II is set after DYRL where the setting is different. Zentradi and Meltrandi were killing each other till Minmay sang Do You Remember Love.

It is ironic that another culture that managed to integrate Zentradi and Meltradi as their slave warrior caste were their enemy.

But comparably they were weaker than the fleets of Bodolzaa and Laplamiz.

Purple ones are Mardook.

[TheLoneWolf]

But suddenly, MII renigs on that concept and REPLACES the Protoculture with the Marduk (or Mardook, depending on what source you go with), who are obviously very alive and thriving.

Nowhere in Macross II is it explicitly stated that the Mardook are, or related to, the Protoculture. Officially, the Mardook are just an alien race that employs enslaved Zentradi.

Seto Kaiba and I discussed this a while back and he made some good points as to why they could be related to the Protoculture, but honestly, there's so little written material on the Mardook to make that into a solid conclusion.