Macross Frontier Final Episode Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Macross1982]

I hate this guy!! http://sdf5x.blogspot.com/search/label/Macross%20F

He is all about Robotech and he claims not to like the show, but I bet he does anyway and I'm sure he will buy the toys too!!!

How can Shadow Chronicles even compare to Macross F?? I can't denied that it was Robotech that brought me into the Macross World (I don't mean this website, but Macross as a whole), but I don't keep myself from watching Macross because of that, heck!! the More Macross I watch the less Robotech I like.

[VF-25 Messiah]

I hate this guy!! http://sdf5x.blogspot.com/search/label/Macross%20F

He is all about Robotech and he claims not to like the show, but I bet he does anyway and I'm sure he will buy the toys too!!!

How can Shadow Chronicles even compare to Macross F?? I can't denied that it was Robotech that brought me into the Macross World (I don't mean this website, but Macross as a whole), but I don't keep myself from watching Macross because of that, heck!! the More Macross I watch the less Robotech I like.

The guys just a pathetic RoboTroll who's bitter because his favourite franchise is basicly dead, getting crap and ultimately futile attempts like SC to revive it every now and then, while Macross gets celebrated with good sequels and is full of vigor to this day.

[sodakar]

Long-time fan, first-time poster who's just curious to see what other fans made of it, and eager to share.

Glad to hear that the overall response was positive -- I thought the final episode was perhaps the most non-stop, action-packed, final episode I've ever seen, and the series did an excellent job of paying homage to the past series. I can understand the slight annoyance the countless references might cause some, but I suspect that the overwhelming joy it brings fans like me easily make up for it. All the little scenes and references took me back to my childhood when I watched it 25 years ago.

What I perhaps love most about the Macross series is that so much of the story revolves around singing and music. As a native speaker, I'm constantly worried that my non-Japanese speaking friends won't get the full experience, so I am always pleased to find how needless my worries are, and that singing and music are indeed universal.

The only contribution I have to this thread is... that when you hear the トライアングラー (Triangler) song during the end credits, it's amusing to note that the lyrics are different from the original song.

Per http://www.kasi-time.com/item-32075.html , the original song goes:

君は誰とキスをする / Who are you going to kiss?

わたし それともあの娘 / Me, or perhaps that girl?

In the final episode, it changes to:

君は誰とキスをする / Who are you going to kiss?

わたし それともわたし / Me, or perhaps me? (with italicized vocals interchanging)

Sorry if that was already mentioned in this thread -- I did a quick search and it didn't come up.

I'm looking forward to the movie!!

[anime52k8]

And let's just say I'm annoyed anytime someone starts obsessing over some supposed triangle resolution. The sad reality is that monogamy runs on the basis of evil, not good, since it exists to satisfy jealousy and possessiveness, nothing more, nothing less. End of the day, it's how much people love and care for each other that counts, not some perverse ideal that has somehow entrenched itself so deeply in modern society.

so is this how you justify bringing a second woman into the relationship?

First, I think saying monogamy is based on evil is really pushing it. Monogamy is based around the preservation of genetic lineage. But we’re not talking about monogamy, were talking about who they love vs. who they care about. Saying "I'm not going to make a decision because I love both of you." is frankly cheap, and show's a complete lack of emotional maturity.

Also, saying "I care about both of you, but I don't love either of you," is utterly idiotic after everything that's happened. It’s a flat out cop out.

As for the episode. Holly crap.

For me the viewing experience was something like: "ZOMG! ZOMG! ZOMG!... WTFHAX?!?"

The battle as a whole was utterly amazing to watch. And I actually feel that the episode resolves a lot of things rather nicely. I feel like I got satisfactory answers to what's the deal with the vajra, what's going on with grace and galaxy, the protoculture connection and the Mac0 connection.

Then it got to the very end...

I'd still like to know a bit more about what was going on 11 years prior and how things went from there to where things were at the beginning of the show, but I can live without knowing. Frankly though I'm PO'd that not only did they not resolve the triangle, they all but said there not even close to a resolution. I honestly felt like I had been utterly trolled by SK. I'd have been fine with it going either way at this point, I just would like a resolution.

I'm still pulling for Sheryl in the movie though...

(and what the hell was with the Minmei picture in the ring?)

[VF-25 Messiah]

Long-time fan, first-time poster who's just curious to see what other fans made of it, and eager to share.

Glad to hear that the overall response was positive -- I thought the final episode was perhaps the most non-stop, action-packed, final episode I've ever seen, and the series did an excellent job of paying homage to the past series. I can understand the slight annoyance the countless references might cause some, but I suspect that the overwhelming joy it brings fans like me easily make up for it. All the little scenes and references took me back to my childhood when I watched it 25 years ago.

What I perhaps love most about the Macross series is that so much of the story revolves around singing and music. As a native speaker, I'm constantly worried that my non-Japanese speaking friends won't get the full experience, so I am always pleased to find how needless my worries are, and that singing and music are indeed universal.

The only contribution I have to this thread is... that when you hear the トライアングラー (Triangler) song during the end credits, it's amusing to note that the lyrics are different from the original song.

Per http://www.kasi-time.com/item-32075.html , the original song goes:

君は誰とキスをする / Who are you going to kiss?

わたし それともあの娘 / Me, or perhaps that girl?

In the final episode, it changes to:

君は誰とキスをする / Who are you going to kiss?

わたし それともわたし / Me, or perhaps me? (with italicized vocals interchanging)

Sorry if that was already mentioned in this thread -- I did a quick search and it didn't come up.

I'm looking forward to the movie!!

While I don't qualify as a non-speaker, I'm not native either. I did notice the change in lyrics as the episode aired, and it put a small smile on my face. Looking forward to listening to the full song on the second sountrack. Just one more week, just one more week...

As for your other comments I can only agree. All the references really did make it feel that we were celebrating the 25th anniversary of the franchise. Loved it

The wait for the movie is going to be an agonising one, but at least I will have BD's to contend with until then.

[Final Vegeta]

By the way, picoodle won't let me save the pictures, use imageshack.us instead

alto has some funky flexible fingers/pinky... how the hell did he do that gerwalk gesture w/ his hand!?

Actually, Alto's hand is in the forearm of the EX-Gear

What is this thing? Nobody addressed my question from earlier and I don't know if any theories were put forth already. It's a little blurry, but it definitely looks something like a Birdhuman head from M0.

Which was claimed to be inspired by the Vajra. If the Protoculture worshiped the Vajra, they probably lived in the same planet

However accurate you think a meme is has nothing at all to do with how annoying and overused it is. Or, to boil down this ridiculous meme and finally kill it:

THINGS NOT GOING THE WAY YOU LIKE =/= KAWAMORI TROLLING

My take is that "trolling" means "messing with" in a playful way. Sadly, internet is full of lamers who don't know and don't care about how things are supposed to be used. Ultimately, what was a joke between friends could be used for evil purposes

FV

[badboy00z]

Woah is all I can say. Lol. I loved the part where Alto controls his VF with the arm slave system.

[shinkirou]

As somebody pointed out in the mecha thread... a Sheryl 'nose art' emblem on the back of a vf-171 ex XD - HOPE THEY RELEASE THIS DECAL IN THE VF-171EX BANDAI KIT YAY! XD

too bad it was the one that got kakizaki-ed T_T hope this does not mean anything in the future haha lol

Edited September 28, 2008 by shinkirou

[Holocause]

someone earlier said it was the same thing as hte crap on the mayan island, meaning they just landed on a PC planet or some such

I haven't read pp14 onward of this thread so I dunno if what i say has been mentioned or been defunk'd but my theory is that that figure was a gravestone for Mao. Who's to say she didn't end up in that planet.

From watching M:F and Ranka's flashbacks, when it was 'family time' they seemed to be in a calm planet when the Vajie's first appear, this is probably that planet. Unless I missed something and its Galia4.

[VF-25 Messiah]

I haven't read pp14 onward of this thread so I dunno if what i say has been mentioned or been defunk'd but my theory is that that figure was a gravestone for Mao. Who's to say she didn't end up in that planet.

From watching M:F and Ranka's flashbacks, when it was 'family time' they seemed to be in a calm planet when the Vajie's first appear, this is probably that planet. Unless I missed something and its Galia4.

That should by all logic have been Galia4 in the flashbacks.

[RedWolf]

Reading the lyrics of the Vajra song not is Ranka's name is in it but also Millia's!

Miria or Millia

Guess during the Stellar Republic the PC already knew of the Vajra.

[hulagu]

I haven't read pp14 onward of this thread so I dunno if what i say has been mentioned or been defunk'd but my theory is that that figure was a gravestone for Mao. Who's to say she didn't end up in that planet.

From watching M:F and Ranka's flashbacks, when it was 'family time' they seemed to be in a calm planet when the Vajie's first appear, this is probably that planet. Unless I missed something and its Galia4.

It's Gallia IV. The rock arc in the background is the same one in the canyon where they found the Global wreck. It's somewhat a plot hole nobody cared to go back to salvage the wreck until Ep. 24.

Edited September 28, 2008 by hulagu

[Dervish]

yeah i totally agree with u!! Bilrer is us fanboys, and he owns real VFs!!! isn't that every otakus' dream come true?

His affinity for model trains seemed to be a not so subtle point to his general otaku status.

[Ork_dreadnought]

It's Gallia IV. The rock arc in the background is the same one in the canyon where they found the Global wreck. It's somewhat a plot hole nobody cared to go back to salvage the wreck until Ep. 24.

I'm more surprised it was actually still recognisable.

On the whole, it was a good ending to a good series. Nice characters, good animation, beatiful music. The downside? Well I found the plot to be rather weak in comparison with the rest of the series. I found speculating about it more interesting that what was actually revealed.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Ork_dreadnought

[tankf77]

I liked what Alto say to Sheryl and Ranka "You're my wings both of you", meaning they're both very important to him

Of course we all know the answer to this : ménage à trois !

-Sergorn

but with some qualifiers attached, according to gg fansubs, it went like this, "You (referring to Sheryl).........[before switching to] you're both my wings"

[Sergorn]

but with some qualifiers attached, according to gg fansubs, it went like this, "You (referring to Sheryl).........[before switching to] you're both my wings"

If felt more lie "You (reffering to both)" IMO

-Sergorn

[veffidas]

The fansub from gg is right. He first used a singular then a plural "you." Of course, Sheryl was the one in trouble so it'd be natural to talk to her first in that situation.

[Duke Togo]

Also, saying "I care about both of you, but I don't love either of you," is utterly idiotic after everything that's happened. It’s a flat out cop out.

I think you need to watch the series again. I think its quite clear that he never had any true feelings for either of them. His love was for flying, that was his passion, that meant everything to him. I don't see why this ending is so shocking to anyone.

[Duke Togo]

someone earlier said it was the same thing as hte crap on the mayan island, meaning they just landed on a PC planet or some such

The subs are out, this question is answered. Heck, it was answered before the subs came out. The Protoculture revered, and perhaps even worshiped the Vajra. They copied much of what they saw of the Vajra.

[Final Vegeta]

If felt more lie "You (reffering to both)" IMO

Omae ga... omae-tachi ga...

Omae is a singular you. Omae-tachi is a plural you.

FV

[tankf77]

The subs are out, this question is answered. Heck, it was answered before the subs came out. The Protoculture revered, and perhaps even worshiped the Vajra. They copied much of what they saw of the Vajra.

So, the "superqueen" is INDEED a Vajra queen and NOT a PC inspired Vajra creation, right? Whereas in M0, the Birdman is really a Vajra inspired PC creation.

And shooting the head of the superqueen ensures her survival but separates Grace from commanding her? I wonder if the superqueen is "alive" in the first place?

The finale seems to bring out more questions regarding PC, Vajra and their related creations.

[tankf77]

Omae ga... omae-tachi ga...

Omae is a singular you. Omae-tachi is a plural you.

FV

Makes you wonder why Alto switched to plural later on right?? Seems to tie down to why Ranka tells her I won't love to you in song or in love.

Although the triangle love is open to various interpretations, I think the script writers leave enough room for us to know that it was her and not Ranka. C'mon, marketing strategy...this is capitalism!

Also, Sheryl seems to know Alto more when he said that idiot flew to the sky.

[Sergorn]

Omae ga... omae-tachi ga...

Omae is a singular you. Omae-tachi is a plural you.

Oh. My bad then. Damn english !

Although the triangle love is open to various interpretations, I think the script writers leave enough room for us to know that it was her and not Ranka

Honestly, Episodes 23 and 24 really left me with the impression that it was Ranka and not Sheryl... and that while Alto cares about Sheryl he really was with her out of compassion rather than love.

-Sergorn

[faramith]

Excelent episode! and left me wanting more!

I have been thinking, if the Megaroad 01 actually made it to this planet, wouldnt they be destroyed by the Vajra? since the

technology carried by the Megaroad 01 was not as advanced as the timeline of the Mac Frontier , they would rapidly be

asssimilated by the Vajra and render it innefective? If the movie is actually a continuation of Macross Frontier I hope to see

something bout the Megaroad 01, since that minmay photo has me wondering.

peace

[VF-25 Messiah]

Dear movie,

please come quickly, and give us a definate LT resolution so that the bickering about it may stop.

Sincerely,

VF-25 Messiah

[ShadowValkyrie]

So, the "superqueen" is INDEED a Vajra queen and NOT a PC inspired Vajra creation, right? Whereas in M0, the Birdman is really a Vajra inspired PC creation.

And shooting the head of the superqueen ensures her survival but separates Grace from commanding her? I wonder if the superqueen is "alive" in the first place?

The finale seems to bring out more questions regarding PC, Vajra and their related creations.

That's what makes it such a great finale, there's still so much more to learn.

On the queen, I got the impression that the "Throne"-- as Grace called it in ep. 24-- is some sort of nest combined with some of funky PC tech. If you look at where Grace was located, there were a number of pods like the one she was in. And given that we knoe the PC liked to play aground with genetic engineering, it's entirely possible that the "Throne" is another one of those type of experiments.

Excelent episode! and left me wanting more!

I have been thinking, if the Megaroad 01 actually made it to this planet, wouldnt they be destroyed by the Vajra? since the

technology carried by the Megaroad 01 was not as advanced as the timeline of the Mac Frontier , they would rapidly be

asssimilated by the Vajra and render it innefective? If the movie is actually a continuation of Macross Frontier I hope to see

something bout the Megaroad 01, since that minmay photo has me wondering.

peace

I don't think teh Vajra took out the Megaroad 01, but I think that the planet and the Vajra are a clue or sign post that we're getting closer to what happened. For all we know, the Megaroad 01 could have found the PC homeworld.

[Duke Togo]

So, the "superqueen" is INDEED a Vajra queen and NOT a PC inspired Vajra creation, right? Whereas in M0, the Birdman is really a Vajra inspired PC creation.

Not only that, ship design, mecha design, all Vajra inspired. You see the cannon on the backs of the lobsters, you see their capital ships split open to fire, and you think, hey, these must be made by the Protoculture, but the truth is something totally different.

Of course, my question still stands, where were the Vajra when the Stellar Republic was being ripped apart by civil war? They don't seem to shy away from conflict.

[adrianop]

Excelent episode! and left me wanting more!

I have been thinking, if the Megaroad 01 actually made it to this planet, wouldnt they be destroyed by the Vajra? since the

technology carried by the Megaroad 01 was not as advanced as the timeline of the Mac Frontier , they would rapidly be

asssimilated by the Vajra and render it innefective? If the movie is actually a continuation of Macross Frontier I hope to see

something bout the Megaroad 01, since that minmay photo has me wondering.

peace

We will never know what happened to Megaroad 01. SK probably has no intention of going back there. I have no problem of being wrong and eating my words though.

[Duke Togo]

And given that we knoe the PC liked to play aground with genetic engineering, it's entirely possible that the "Throne" is another one of those type of experiments.

No. Watch again, read what was said again. The Vajra came before the Protoculture. The Protoculture were in awe of the Vajra. The Protoculture were inspired by them.

[Duke Togo]

We will never know what happened to Megaroad 01. SK probably has no intention of going back there. I have no problem of being wrong and eating my words though.

I think the mistake he made was having Bilrer obsessing over Minmay at the end of this series. Kawamori cracked the door back open again, even if it wasn't his intention to do so. He's going to get more questions on it now than he ever has.

[Duke Togo]

I don't think teh Vajra took out the Megaroad 01, but I think that the planet and the Vajra are a clue or sign post that we're getting closer to what happened. For all we know, the Megaroad 01 could have found the PC homeworld.

I think you really missed what happened at the end of this series.

[VF-25 Messiah]

No. Watch again, read what was said again. The Vajra came before the Protoculture. The Protoculture were in awe of the Vajra. The Protoculture were inspired by them.

It never said the Vajra came before the Protoculture, but it was made clear that the Vajra were not a Protoculture creation.

[Duke Togo]

It never said the Vajra came before the Protoculture, but it was made clear that the Vajra were not a Protoculture creation.

"With the power which even the Protoculture feared, adored, and defied, to the extent of imitating its form, the Super Dimenion life form, Vajra!"

And then Ranka goes on to explain that Aimo is a Vajra love song, a mating call when Vajra from other galaxies meet once in "hundreds of millions of years".

Could this be ANY more clear?

Edited September 28, 2008 by Duke Togo

[Nexx Stalker]

They may have, but they also may have simply rekindled their friendship. There really isn't exactly alot of romance between them in Plus.

We must have seen two different shows, then.

But just to annoy you, I'll add to the list of resolved Macross triangles Hibiki and Sylvie, since you like II so much . There.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Nexx Stalker

[VF-25 Messiah]

"With the power which even the Protoculture feared, adored, and defied, to the extent of imitating its form, the Super Dimenion life form, Vajra!"

Yes? Ok perhaps I misread what you meant when you said "they came before". It never literally said which was first in the galaxy, Vajra, or PC. Which is what I what I thought you said, but I realize you meant it in a context of "they were greater than the PC".