Macross Frontier Final Episode Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[wolfx]

I agree with you, the triangle doesn't bother me either. Kinda figured no one would end up together. I don't think anyone has ended up together in a Macross story since the original. Well, ok, Shin and Sara in Zero.

Since i'm too used to harem anime (urgh...i shouldn't be) i don't really mind the triangle unresolved too. But I am more annoyed by the shipper wars especially the sheryl ones who insist alto has made his choice Sheryl....when its obvious he hasn't.

[Oihan]

Did you watch the episode, Oihan?

Haha, of course! I thought episode 24 did a great job of leading up to what happened in episode 25. Grace got what was coming to her, as did Leon. We got to see who Bilrer was hoping to meet. Ranka finally remembered who she was towards the end of the series. All we really didn't get was a definitive answer in regards to the love triangle. What other plots am I missing? Sure, they could have gone a little more in depth with some of the stuff...but it is what it is. I just wish they had let us know who Alto chose.

[Oihan]

Since i'm too used to harem anime (urgh...i shouldn't be) i don't really mind the triangle unresolved too. But I am more annoyed by the shipper wars especially the sheryl ones who insist alto has made his choice Sheryl....when its obvious he hasn't.

I guess I'm one of your "Sheyrl shippers" that you speak of. What do you make of what happened in episode 24 between Sheyrl and Alto then? Sure there's no clear confession of love from him, but to me the signs point to Sheryl more so than they do for Ranka.

[polidread]

Mr.Bilrer represents the fanboys who own most of the VF model releases & other Macross merchandise

and as such has indirectly and continually helped fund the Macross series.

He still wants to find out what happened to Minmay & maybe the Megaroad

and insists Kawamori make another series about the original love triangle ! XD

the hory froating head knows !

[cypherpunk]

I've been wondering this for a while. Why is Shoji Kawamori referred to as Hory Froating Head?

[RedWolf]

Sounds like an interesting hypothesis. Is it canon?

Speculation involving the mythos in Macross Dynamite 7 and Macross Zero.

Besides humans Zolans is the only other miclone race introduced to Macross.

Unlike humans who evolved from primates, Zolans evolved from marsupials. Given they are humanoid like us and Zentradi they are an attempt to create a sub-Protoculture race like Earthers.

Also during Macross Dynamite 7 it would seem Zolans lost much of their ancient culture. We don't know why but Zola does have a ring of asteroids around it.

Only a few know why the Vahl Ena come down to Zola every 7000 years. To die, give birth to new Whales and revitalize the planet. Spiritia regeneration.

Also note that on Zola a person who isn't born on the planet is not immune from microbes brought by Space Whales.

Vahl Ena are tageted by pirates for use in fold engines. Sold also in the black market.

Whales are also natural fold creatures

Quite similar to a certain species we know doesn't it?

Also the Vahl Ena like the Vajra has its central member. For the Space Whales its the White Whale called the strongest in the galaxy by the Ancestors. It eats reaction weapons for breakfast. The Vajra have the true queen.

From what Grace said the Protoculture admired the Vajra so much they created the Birdmanin its image.

If we apply this to Zentran ships then the Proculture based their ship style on Space Whales.

Also on Mayan island there flying fish. Zola also has flying fish. The so called children of Roy Kanu , the Fishman, and Roy Wake who came from the Birdman.

Thus if the Zolans so called Ancestors are the Protoculture then the Protoculture does not have motheistic or polytheistic religion like most of us humans but they are Animist in their beliefs.

Especially with regards to fold capable creatures.

[zathras]

Speculation involving the mythos in Macross Dynamite 7 and Macross Zero.

Besides humans Zolans is the only other miclone race introduced to Macross.

Unlike humans who evolved from primates, Zolans evolved from marsupials. Given they are humanoid like us and Zentradi they are an attempt to create a sub-Protoculture race like Earthers.

Also during Macross Dynamite 7 it would seem Zolans lost much of their ancient culture. We don't know why but Zola does have a ring of asteroids around it.

Only a few know why the Vahl Ena come down to Zola every 7000 years. To die, give birth to new Whales and revitalize the planet. Spiritia regeneration.

Also note that on Zola a person who isn't born on the planet is not immune from microbes brought by Space Whales.

Vahl Ena are tageted by pirates for use in fold engines. Sold also in the black market.

Whales are also natural fold creatures

Quite similar to a certain species we know doesn't it?

Also the Vahl Ena like the Vajra has its central member. For the Space Whales its the White Whale called the strongest in the galaxy by the Ancestors. It eats reaction weapons for breakfast. The Vajra have the true queen.

From what Grace said the Protoculture admired the Vajra so much they created the Birdmanin its image.

If we apply this to Zentran ships then the Proculture based their ship style on Space Whales.

Also on Mayan island there flying fish. Zola also has flying fish. The so called children of Roy Kanu , the Fishman, and Roy Wake who came from the Birdman.

Thus if the Zolans so called Ancestors are the Protoculture then the Protoculture does not have motheistic or polytheistic religion like most of us humans but they are Animist in their beliefs.

Especially with regards to fold capable creatures.

so most likely the Birdman worshippers were the 2nd rise of the Protoculture civilization after the Stellar Republic's fall from the Protodevlin...there's probably other planets out there that have the Birdman mythos, they're the survivors after Anima Spiritia had locked the Protodevlin away but the entire population of the Stellar Republic had been decimated...also how the hell did Anima Spiritia put the Protodevlin away by himself...he needs to had a lot of help since the Zentraedi had gone awol in their fighting with the supervision army...

most likely those other planets that had the post Stellar Republic civilizations had mostly been wiped out by the Zentraedi since they went postal on any civilization that they encountered...overall the Val Elna probably regenerated the spiritia all across the galaxy or Anima Spiritia used the fold wave network that Grace had been trying to gain as a way to transmit the spiritia to the rest of the galaxy...unfortunately a lot of the ppl had already died by the spiritia drain by then and Anima Spiritia can only revive the survivors if he was connected to the Vajra queen...

so the first civilization protoculture revered the Val Elna/Space Whales while the surviving civilization of the protoculture revered the Vajra probably due to Anima Spiritia's revival of the survivors...

[Final Vegeta]

MOST. EPIC. EPISODE. EVER.

Definitively liked it. Felt like the only rushed part was when they arrested Leon, Battle Galaxy and the Queen were there from the start of the episode. I also liked how they put every song from the series, and how they slapped shippers in the face

ARIGATOU, KAWAMORI!

This episode had a lot of hype, but it still managed to pull it off. It looks like they used half of the budget of the series in there.

There is a reference to hara in how Vajra works: In Chinese and Japanese tradition, it is considered the physical center of gravity for the human body and by extension the seat of one's internal energy (qi). A master of calligraphy, swordsmanship, tea ceremony, martial arts or comparable disciplines is held in the Japanese tradition to be "acting from the hara". Acting from the belly is synonymous of spontaneity.

About Cinderella's Horn, it looks like it's what Sheryl was doing. We saw in a previous episode a technician preparing the bridge for that, the same bridge where Sheryl performed.

Battle Galaxy couldn't be found with radar? Didn't you know they have Active Stealth in Macross? And Galaxy is leading in hi-tech.

FV

[RedWolf]

Just to add. The Vajra queen's domain is a spiral shell while the Vahla Ena swirl around the cemetery they enter it.

Edited September 27, 2008 by RedWolf

[vanpang]

no subs yet ?

[Mac & Cheese]

Seriously badass ep, I love it.

Also it seems more like a mac plus ending were it was implied myung and Isamu, well in this is basically spelled out that Alto became unlost and became a pilot to protect Ranka. Also the whole speach in ep 24 about stopping the lovers games proves sheryl knows this and Alto was beyond upset in ep 21 when Ranka left, he felt lost again with out her in the duel against Ozuma in ep 22 showed this frustration. Not to mention he reached his right arm out, yep to the side of Ranka. Just because they didn't have sappy music and love closure lots of it is implied.

Now to go to the galaxy fleet issue, did you guys watch the episode, the fleet and Battle galaxy was protecting the Queen, you can see several shots with them hanging around and alto and brera fly by a fleet of them to the queen. Now I presumed they got punished my mac F and co forces with the good vajra.

[veffidas]

Fansubs from gg are out now.

(Can't say I'm looking forward to re-encoding this as the original file is over 700MB.)

Edited September 27, 2008 by veffidas

[grss1982]

Fansubs from gg are out now.

(Can't say I'm looking forward to re-encoding this as the original file is over 700MB.)

But seriously what's up with the size? Usually gg's are in the 400mb range.

[hulagu]

Seriously badass ep, I love it.

Also it seems more like a mac plus ending were it was implied myung and Isamu, well in this is basically spelled out that Alto became unlost and became a pilot to protect Ranka. Also the whole speach in ep 24 about stopping the lovers games proves sheryl knows this

It proves Sheryl thought this was the case before the ep 24 kiss scene. However, when Alto reacted emotionally to her letting him go, she knew that his feelings for her were real, which gave her the determination to kiss him, and wait for an answer. She's fairly confident of her chances, given that she's only mildly shaken when Ranka says she's not conceding yet, and even flashes the winner sign and playfully challenges Ranka to bring it on, totally different from her previous uncertain self.

and Alto was beyond upset in ep 21 when Ranka left,

Because he thought Ranka had gone mad and just betrayed humanity. Notice he never thought about her for the next episodes again until he decided to kill her. And it's Sheryl who influences him to try to save Ranka (she'd only listen to his answer if he returns with Ranka) instead of his own initiative.

he felt lost again with out her in the duel against Ozuma in ep 22 showed this frustration.

Because he thought Ozma had gone mad and just up and joined Ranka in betraying humanity, and also because he's sick and tired of people endlessly telling him he's running away and criminally dense.

Not to mention he reached his right arm out, yep to the side of Ranka. Just because they didn't have sappy music and love closure lots of it is implied.

This is probably overanalyzing the scene, but since you bring up the arm thing, it's actually in Sheryl's favor, not Ranka's. Why? Because he's trying to take the hand of one of the girls as he approaches on his fly past with his own right hand.

Now, Ranka is holding up her left hand, while Sheryl is holding up her right. Now, if you were reaching to properly grip someone else's hand using your right hand, which hand should they be holding out to return your grip?

Edited September 27, 2008 by hulagu

[TCracker]

Yeah, what gives? 700MB is insane

[Gubaba]

Seriously badass ep, I love it.

Also it seems more like a mac plus ending were it was implied myung and Isamu, well in this is basically spelled out that Alto became unlost and became a pilot to protect Ranka. Also the whole speach in ep 24 about stopping the lovers games proves sheryl knows this and Alto was beyond upset in ep 21 when Ranka left, he felt lost again with out her in the duel against Ozuma in ep 22 showed this frustration. Not to mention he reached his right arm out, yep to the side of Ranka. Just because they didn't have sappy music and love closure lots of it is implied.

It proves Sheryl thought this was the case before the ep 24 kiss scene. However, when Alto reacted emotionally to her letting him go, she knew that his feelings for her were real, which gave her the determination to kiss him, and wait for an answer. She's fairly confident of her chances, given that she's only mildly shaken when Ranka says she's not conceding yet, and even flashes the winner sign and playfully challenges Ranka to bring it on, totally different from her previous uncertain self.

Because he thought Ranka had gone mad and just betrayed humanity. Notice he never thought about her for the next episodes again until he decided to kill her. And it's Sheryl who influences him to try to save Ranka (she'd only listen to his answer if he returns with Ranka) instead of his own initiative.

Because he thought Ozma had gone mad and just up and joined Ranka in betraying humanity, and also because he's sick and tired of people endlessly telling him he's running away and criminally dense.

This is probably overanalyzing the scene, but since you bring up the arm thing, it's actually in Sheryl's favor, not Ranka's. Why? Because he's trying to take the hand of one of the girls as he approaches on his fly past with his own right hand.

Now, Ranka is holding up her left hand, while Sheryl is holding up her right. Now, if you were reaching to properly grip someone else's hand using your right hand, which hand should they be holding out to return your grip?

Please guys, tell me you're just doing a parody of Animesuki-style shippers...

The love triangle was left open-ended...and you can probably find "hints" to prove any damn thing you want to prove. I could probably demonstrate that Alto chose Klan if I set my mind to it...

[Funkenstein]

Alto chose Sora. Alto X Sora ending!

[VF-25 Messiah]

Hope the movie gives us a definate LT ending, if only to stop this.

[Final Vegeta]

After viewing it a second time, I understood the real purpose of the medley of songs. When Quarter attacked, it was Infinity as in ep. 7. When Also rescued Ranka, it was similar to a scene in ep. 27 of SDF, so they used Watashi No Kare Wa Pilot. And so on. Each song describes perfectly the moment it was used on, even when there were two songs at the same time. This is truely a brilliant direction, no wonder the man in charge of the episode was Kawamori himself.

FV

[kensei]

Awesome. The Judah system was the AI program that was used in the Sharon Apple Incident. Seems Luca has modified it to be battlefield practical.

I was wrong about the Ghost V-9s though, they sport a red dorsal section and a blue underside, it has both a laser cannon and missiles. Great to see the technologies from Plus being used.

[hulagu]

After viewing it a second time, I understood the real purpose of the medley of songs. When Quarter attacked, it was Infinity as in ep. 7. When Also rescued Ranka, it was similar to a scene in ep. 27 of SDF, so they used Watashi No Kare Wa Pilot. And so on. Each song describes perfectly the moment it was used on, even when there were two songs at the same time. This is truely a brilliant direction, no wonder the man in charge of the episode was Kawamori himself.

FV

Yes, the Nyan Nyan Service Medley was really nicely coordinated with the non-stop action on screen.

Edited September 27, 2008 by hulagu

[Duke Togo]

Yeah, what gives? 700MB is insane

Back in 1997, maybe...

[shinkirou]

just thought of posting this haha XD

After buying your VF-25 Messiah Alto Custom in 1/72 or 1/60 scale, maybe you'll be needing this little quick tutorial on how to transform your valkyrie vf-25 to battroid mode XD

*screen caps by me XD

Hi! I am Alto! I will be remote-controlling my valkyrie to show you how XD

While flying...

then change to gerwalk mode...

begin the flip transformation...

almost done...

and then there we have it! fire away! XD

Tune in next time XD yeah watch me in the upcoming MF movie XD

Edited September 27, 2008 by shinkirou

[Heron]

Back in 1997, maybe...

Indeed. I have a terabyte storage device just for those Gigs of movies.

[Gubaba]

just thought of posting this haha XD

After buying your VF-25 Messiah Alto Custom in 1/72 or 1/60 scale, maybe you'll be needing this little quick tutorial on how to transform your valkyrie vf-25 to battroid mode XD

No no NO!!

If you listen to Alto, you'll end up wrecking at least three of your 1/60s before you get the transformation right, and those things are expensive!

[azrael]

Last episodes usually end up bigger than the others. If you don't want to to wait, download the subtitle file from their site or wait for the DDL.

[Sergorn]

Wow I just saw Episode 25 and my that was one hell of an ending !

I don't know have time to look at the 27 pages of discussion but well I thought it was perfect... it ended up tying up things pretty and IMO didn't felt rushed like the final episode of Macross Zero. The final battle amazing in every aspect with lots of singing Yeah ! SMS coming to the rescue was just awesome The shot of the Vajra opening over Macross City I was like OMFG !!

And and DEADLUS ATTACK FOR THE WIN ! Yeah Macross Quarter !!!

So in the end there WAS indeed a connexion between the Vajra and the AFOS (told ya ), though I guess it's pretty much the other way around most of us thought. I guess we can assume the Vajra is some sort of ancient race unrelated of the Protoculture, which the Protoculture know of enough to base the "Bird Human" on it; but without ever making an ennemy of them or something.

There were some need DYRL moments in that one too - I loved ALto saluting in his VF-25, and him shooting Grace felt reminiscent of Hikaru shooting Bodolza ! Yeah !

It leaves some unanswered stuff (what's the deal with Bilrer and Minmay ? ) and the Love Triangle isn't resolved. But I didn't mind.

Awww well that was a amazing conclusion to an amazing series. Now let's bring on the movie, and let's hope we won't have to wait too much for a new Macross series

-Sergorn

Edited September 27, 2008 by Sergorn

[flobo]

I'm really disappointed with this ending, it felt way too rushed.

In the end, not much is resolved. We heard a lot a songs but never one fully, they are always cut after a few seconds.

And almost nothing happened in the episode, just a very long battle.

I preferred original and seven's ending.

Edited September 27, 2008 by flobo

[Gubaba]

I'm really disappointed with this ending, it felt way too rushed.

In the end, not much is resolved. We heard a lot a songs but never one fully, they are always cut after a few seconds.

Because you've never heard them all the way through before...?

And almost nothing happened in the episode, just a very long battle.

Yeah, nothing happened...apart from us finding out what the Vajra actually are, what the Birdman connection is, where Galaxy has been hiding, how Grace planned to implement her takeover, how Leon got brought down, where "Aimo" came from, whether Brera could break Grace's hold on him, how Sheryl could survive, and who Bilra was waiting for. Other than that, nothing happened.

I preferred original and seven's ending.

And both of those were fine endings. So, IMHO, was this.

[BlueMax]

gg's out

[VF-25 Messiah]

We heard a lot a songs but never one fully, they are always cut after a few seconds.

This phenomena is known as a medley.

[flobo]

I agree about who the varja were, aimo explanation and the explanation about grace, but it isn't much for a final.

The birdman connection was "explained" in 3 seconds. Only batle galaxy has been shown, the rest is still MIA. Leon was also brought down in less than 10s, he didn't even say a word. And bilra was waiting for minmay, which has nothing to do with this serie's plot.

[Gubaba]

I agree about who the varja were, aimo explanation and the explanation about grace, but it isn't much for a final.

The birdman connection was "explained" in 3 seconds. Only batle galaxy has been shown, the rest is still MIA. Leon was also brought down in less than 10s, he didn't even say a word. And bilra was waiting for minmay, which has nothing to do with this serie's plot.

So wait...do you think that nothing happened, or that too much happened too quickly?

I don't agree with either assessment, but I can understand why many would agree with the latter. The former makes no sense to me, unless it's referring exclusively to the love triangle.

[Final Vegeta]

it felt way too rushed. [...] And almost nothing happened in the episode

This is an oxymoron

FV

[VF-25 Messiah]

Only batle galaxy has been shown, the rest is still MIA.

Saw at least 2 dulfim class and 2 kaitos class vessels as well, an at least one dozen green VF-27's. Wouldn't be surpised if most of the Galaxy militairy was present. Only really the city block missing, which would make sense not to bring into a war zone.