Earth & The Macross Fleets

[maczero]

http://www.new-un-spacy.com/macross7/einst...instein-aft.gif

Three diamond blocks:

- One big block

- Two smaller blocks

[Fade Rathnik]

Didn't someone say that the M11 fleet was on the outer rim exploring, well the fins could be a big freaking fold antenna. M7 Brought their own ship for that purpose would make sense to build it into the ship itself aswell.

[Mark Nguyen]

You might say the same thing of Battle Galaxy, which seems to have large spine off its "back" which don't look like guns. Anyway, I think the reason Frontier can't communicate instantly with earth is its greater distance away than M7 was, or a combination of that with a greater number of fold fault which might be in the way.

As for the Einstein, I still don't buy it. the separate "diamond" shapes on these blue ships don't at all resemble the arrangement of the M7 Einstein's engine block, and viewed from behind they wouldn't even be that distinct. While a degree of artistic liberty has been seen in all the designs of Frontier that were ported in from other series, in this case I believe it's too far off to be the Einstein design. I maintain that it must be a different ship altogether. From M3:

http://www.new-un-spacy.com/macross7/einst...instein-aft.gif

Mark

Edited September 29, 2008 by Mark Nguyen

[DHX]

Okay here are the Macross colony fleets we've seen.

Macross 1

does anyone have any data and stats on these cityships? i have no idea what to call them

[RedWolf]

The very first of the New Macross Class colonies.

That there is the Macross 1 fleet. With four NMCs.

This is not uncommon. Macross 5 had three NMCs.

[Gubaba]

Didn't someone say that the M11 fleet was on the outer rim exploring, well the fins could be a big freaking fold antenna. M7 Brought their own ship for that purpose would make sense to build it into the ship itself aswell.

Well...it WAS, as of 2047. but who knows where it is in 2059...

[d3v]

Macross 11 looks like a City type with multiple Akusho-type ships trailing behind it. Possibly an early version of the arrangement we see in the Island clusters.

[dreamweaver13]

Well...it WAS, as of 2047. but who knows where it is in 2059...

Given Kaifun's penchant for disrupting military operations, maybe it's still there.

[DHX]

The very first of the New Macross Class colonies.

That there is the Macross 1 fleet. With four NMCs.

This is not uncommon. Macross 5 had three NMCs.

that i got, i was more intrest in the city blocks

[Radd]

Macross 7 was the 37, considering it was also the 7th New Macross fleet that make 29 fleets between the Megaroad class ships and the New Macross class ships, considering they had 13 ships of the Megaroad that leaves 16 unaccounted main escort ships, It is possible that some fleet didn't had a giant main ship or it could be the 16 ships were fleet escorts SDF class like the Macross and Global.

It's entirely possible that colony ships and their escorts wound up serving in multiple fleets. More than possible, I'd say likely. If not the city section, which might remain with a colony as it's main city for many years, then at least the escorts. I'd say this is especially likely with the Megaroad colony ships and NMC battleships. There's also likely a number of NMC ships that are not used in colony fleets. The 55th colony fleet might not be Battle 25's first mission. It's possible there was a "City 25" at some point in the past, and it's already been dropped off somewhere. We know that Eden isn't the only colony. We know that a first generation Macross class was attached to a research mission.

[RedWolf]

It's entirely possible that colony ships and their escorts wound up serving in multiple fleets. More than possible, I'd say likely. If not the city section, which might remain with a colony as it's main city for many years, then at least the escorts. I'd say this is especially likely with the Megaroad colony ships and NMC battleships. There's also likely a number of NMC ships that are not used in colony fleets. The 55th colony fleet might not be Battle 25's first mission. It's possible there was a "City 25" at some point in the past, and it's already been dropped off somewhere. We know that Eden isn't the only colony. We know that a first generation Macross class was attached to a research mission.

Well if Megaroad 13 is any indication even after a decade or two the main colony ship or flagship will serve the colony after colonization.

[DHX]

Am I right in guessing it was Megaroad-02 that settled on Eden?

[Radd]

Megaroad 13 was attached to the fleet taken over by the Protodevlin, wasn't it? I don't recall mention of that one having settled on a world. Of course, the Megaroad ships were the colony ships of a fleet. I can certainly see the colony ships remaining with the colony for a long time after a planet is settled, since they're a ready made city that people have been living in for some time. However, the NMC Battle sections could easily be attached to a new fleet once the colony is basically set up. Especially those not cut off from other areas by fold faults.

[RedWolf]

Am I right in guessing it was Megaroad-02 that settled on Eden?

Actually that was Megaroad 4.

Megaroad 13 colonized a planet in the Varuta system.

Eventually while poking around the system they found something on Varauta 3198XE.

A Protoculture ruin, it was an important enough find that Earth sent a big shot Advisor Ivanov Gunther to investigate.

[sketchley]

A short-range emmigration fleet found and colonized Eden.

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2013

I feel like I'm repeating myself, as this is the 2nd or 3rd time in the past week or two that I've said this on these forums.

[Mark Nguyen]

Thing is though, this MAY have been retconned, as the opening CG graphic suggests that it was a Megaroad. The information that Eden was colonized by a short range, non-huge expedition is ONE reference in print, published almost fifteen years ago. The more recent reference is seen directly in animation, and it's what more people will accept as "true" as a result. While not absolutely concrete, an on-screen reference is usually enough to be more "canon" than a print reference.

Mark

[sketchley]

*cough* Macross Chronicle

*cough* did you read the link in the compendium that says it's canon as of 2008?

[RedWolf]

*cough* Macross Chronicle

*cough* did you read the link in the compendium that says it's canon as of 2008?

If I remember correctly Max was a captain of a ship in a investigation fleet.

Eden was found on 2013 but Megaroad 4 began full colonization on 2014.

Thus Eden began to be the second most important planet in the NUN in terms of population.

[Ishimaru]

I still don't get why out of all the fleets they had to show Macross 11? Why not 15, 16, 17, or some other fleet?

What made 11 so special?

[RedWolf]

I still don't get why out of all the fleets they had to show Macross 11? Why not 15, 16, 17, or some other fleet?

What made 11 so special?

Because Macross 11 is at the galaxy's rim.

Perhaps the most backwater region of the galaxy.

It's like the wild west out there with Galaxy Patrol marshals and crooks such as Pirates, Poachers and Arms Smugglers.

Edited October 1, 2008 by RedWolf

[Ishimaru]

Because Macross 11 is at the galaxy's rim.

Perhaps the most backwater region of the galaxy.

It's like the wild west out there with Galaxy Patrol marshals and crooks such as Pirates, Poachers and Arms Smugglers.

Still doesn't make sense on why it was picked out. Any other Macross fleet can be on the galaxy's rim too.

[RedWolf]

Still doesn't make sense on why it was picked out. Any other Macross fleet can be on the galaxy's rim too.

Well another is that we were trolled.

Macross 7? Here's Macross 11 with Kaifun and his rip off band Fire Bomber American.

We know what would happen if Grace sent Vajra where Basara lives.

[Radd]

Thing is though, this MAY have been retconned, as the opening CG graphic suggests that it was a Megaroad. The information that Eden was colonized by a short range, non-huge expedition is ONE reference in print, published almost fifteen years ago. The more recent reference is seen directly in animation, and it's what more people will accept as "true" as a result. While not absolutely concrete, an on-screen reference is usually enough to be more "canon" than a print reference.

Mark

The colonization graphic at the beginning of Frontier has enough wrong with it that we can safely dismiss it as a pretty looking dramatization. As such, I wouldn't take anything seen there too seriously.

[Radd]

Macross 11 probably wasn't chosen for any significant reason other than it's known to be exploring the outer rim. Frontier is near the galactic core. And then Earth, the cradle of humanity, is also shown. This illustrates, simply and quickly, that the Vajra were suddenly appearing all over the galaxy where humanity had spread. They didn't have time to spare in the episode to show more, or they probably would have. This was the most efficient way of driving the point across.

[sketchley]

Please state your source(s). If it's only the beginning recap of Macross Frontier, see Radd's post.

My source: MC Worldguide Sheet 20a (04-21), published 2008.09.18

Article states:

discovered by a short range emmigration fleet in November 2013 and colonization begins thereafter.

Next date mentioned in the article: 2020 - the establishment of a military flight test centre.

Next date: 2040 - at the same flight test centere, there's the YF-19 and YF-21 competition.

Next date: 2059 - regarding the Eden Hyudra (Hydra?) that went crazy on the MF fleet.

No mention of a super long range emmigration colony ship being used to colonize it (a Megaroad class in other words)

No mention of 2014

No mention of the Megaroad 4, period.

Which then prompts the question: why would a ship designed to carry "thousands to 10 thousands of emmigrants"* on a multi-year mission to a super long distant planet be used to colonize a planet that is only "1 to 2 folds and 18 to 24 hours"** away from Earth? It's highly illogical and a waste of limited resources...

*MC Worldguide Sheet 13a (01-22), published 2008.08.07

** MC Worldguide Sheet 20a (04-21), published 2008.09.18

If I remember correctly Max was a captain of a ship in a investigation fleet.

Eden was found on 2013 but Megaroad 4 began full colonization on 2014.

Thus Eden began to be the second most important planet in the NUN in terms of population.

Edited October 1, 2008 by sketchley

[Mark Nguyen]

This is a valid counterargument; personally however, I subscribe to a common canon rationalization process whereby [stuff you see on screen > stuff you read in a book]. By default in live or animated media, there willl ALWAYS be more people who will refer to what showed up on their TV screen over whatever someone wrote in a book. This has kept Trek and Star Wars fans arguing for decades now, and I'm sure history will similarly prove that when people wonder who colonized Eden, more fingers will point to the pretty CG graphic over a print source, official or not.

So, going by this process, IMO there WAS a Megaroad ship which left earth and at some point arrived at Eden in 2014. However, this does NOT discount the printed evidence of a short-range fleet discovering the planet first. This leaves us with a number of possibilities that can reconcile both pieces of evidence, some of which have already been posited:

-A short-range fleet finds Eden first, and a Megaroad is sent there later to fully colonize the place.

-A Megaroad was PART of said short range fleet. While the Megaroad class was arguably designed for long-range colonization, there is nothing to say that one can't be retasked for for a shorter mission, or simply found Eden early on its longer mission.

-The short-range fleet finds the place, and the Megaroad simply passes by on its way elsewhere. However, we don't see a continuing arrow from Eden.

And so on. The point is of course that there are many different ways to include many points of evidence from multiple sources. Everyone will have their own interpretation, and it's up to the individual in the end to decide what makes the most sense to them within this fictional context. I personally prefer to accept the visual evidence of a Megaroad ship leaving Earth and colonizing Eden, though not necessarily first, despite my knowing for years now the Compendium has stated a short-range fleet did this as well. Your mileage may vary.

Mark <--- Han fired first

[sketchley]

Your logic is flawed. It doesn't take into consideration animation mistakes, second party errors (ie the animation studio that Statelite contracts out to), and storytelling compromises needed to speed up the pace and/or get the point across.

I'm not sure if it has been pointed out herein, but Macross Chronicle's descriptions are being supervised by Shoji Kawamori.

[Mark Nguyen]

Kawamori's supervising various documents does not render it a superior source of information. By that logic, one could insist that the company which created the YF-19 is "SINSEI INDUSTRY" and not "SHINSEI" as referred to in the animation, because one Macross Plus artbook had a spelling mistake on pgs 91 and 97 - and THAT was supervised by Kawamori too. In Trek for example, various mistaken CG shots have phaser blasts emerging from photon torpedo tubes and vice versa. Fans can either discount the source, or try to reconcile visual evidence versus the intent or script. Still, more people will refer to the animation rather than a printed source, which is why we still have people asking why VF-1s don't use their nose lasers more often, 25 years later.

Canon in fictional sources will always be subjective, rather than objective. I choose to believe that the pretty CG graphic is a valid piece of evidence, which CAN be reconciled with a print source. Fans will disagree, of course - and that's what makes it fun.

Mark

[Gubaba]

Kawamori's supervising various documents does not render it a superior source of information. By that logic, one could insist that the company which created the YF-19 is "SINSEI INDUSTRY" and not "SHINSEI" as referred to in the animation, because one Macross Plus artbook had a spelling mistake on pgs 91 and 97 - and THAT was supervised by Kawamori too. In Trek for example, various mistaken CG shots have phaser blasts emerging from photon torpedo tubes and vice versa. Fans can either discount the source, or try to reconcile visual evidence versus the intent or script. Still, more people will refer to the animation rather than a printed source, which is why we still have people asking why VF-1s don't use their nose lasers more often, 25 years later.

Canon in fictional sources will always be subjective, rather than objective. I choose to believe that the pretty CG graphic is a valid piece of evidence, which CAN be reconciled with a print source. Fans will disagree, of course - and that's what makes it fun.

Mark

I think Romanization mistakes differ from factual mistakes...for example, in the Frontier animation, we've seen Sheryl "Norm," "Nome," and "Noam." You can't really reconcile that beyond saying, "Well, I guess the animation staff doesn't know English...and why should they?"

Of course, to argue for the other side, there is at least one small-but-glaring mistake in Macross Chronicle...in the Minmay section, they say that Roy had a VF-1J.

[Sulendil Ang]

Of course, to argue for the other side, there is at least one small-but-glaring mistake in Macross Chronicle...in the Minmay section, they say that Roy had a VF-1J.

Well, I find a very interesting line in MAHQ's summary of SDFM Episode 1:

Roy gets into his customized VF-1J Skull One Valkyrie and launches with his team.

Maybe Chris (ChrisG in MacrossWorld), the webmaster of the MAHQ, make a mistake here. Can someone confirm this, as I don't have the clips with me now?

[sketchley]

Agreed. Specifically regarding the si vs shi, that's a common error amongst all Japanese.

Compare the し (shi/si) in:

Hepburn (by an English speaker) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepburn_roman...on#For_hiragana

to

Nihon-Siki (shiki) (by a Japanese speaker) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihon-shiki

In this case, it's just middle (Jr high) and high school lessons being applied, and not a misunderstanding of English.

Re: publication errors - that's why I'm providing multiple sources and multiple pages from the same source.

And Mark, I'm still waiting for your source(s) - in addition to the opening recap.

I think Romanization mistakes differ from factual mistakes...for example, in the Frontier animation, we've seen Sheryl "Norm," "Nome," and "Noam." You can't really reconcile that beyond saying, "Well, I guess the animation staff doesn't know English...and why should they?"

Of course, to argue for the other side, there is at least one small-but-glaring mistake in Macross Chronicle...in the Minmay section, they say that Roy had a VF-1J.

[sketchley]

Good eyes. I think it looks like Chronicle does have a typo, as in the timeline, there's no mention of the VF type he's in during that particular part of the timeline. In addition, earlier it mentions him in a VF-1S.

Mind you, we'll have to wait another few months (years?) until the Roy Fokker page is printed to get full clarification.

Well, I find a very interesting line in MAHQ's summary of SDFM Episode 1:

Maybe Chris (ChrisG in MacrossWorld), the webmaster of the MAHQ, make a mistake here. Can someone confirm this, as I don't have the clips with me now?

Edited October 2, 2008 by sketchley

[Mark Nguyen]

Pgs 91 and 97 of the "This is Animation Special" Macross Plus artbook. I'm sure someone has scanned them in SOMEWHERE. I did the silly thing and bought the book. As for the opener, rewatch it yourself.

As noted, acceptance of any source regardless of its degree of officialness or apparent CG error is a choice, not a rule. I choose to believe that the pretty CG graphic is more official than a print source. You'll find most fans will, which is why most still don't know about this short-range fleet, and likely never will.

Mark <--- Megaroad-04-ever!

Edited October 2, 2008 by Mark Nguyen

[GreatMoose]

OK, did I totally miss the Macross 11 and where all the stuff was mentioned about it? Was all that in Frontier?

[RedWolf]

OK, did I totally miss the Macross 11 and where all the stuff was mentioned about it? Was all that in Frontier?

From Macross Compendium

2047

January

* Fire Bomber American responds to an interview during an in-studio practice session.

February 21

"Macross English Anticipation Manga"

* Fire Bomber learns about the English Fire!! album release from the Fire Bomber American cover band.

Spring

* Fire Bomber American's English Fire!! album gains widespread popularity.

Macross 11 is an all English speaking fleet known as the home of Fire Bomber American, a copy cat band, and Lynn Kaifun. (Yep the old bastard was still alive in 2047. It wasn't enough he almost ruined Minmay's music career.)

Macross 11 was also mentioned in the metafictional Zolan radio drama Fold Story in Macross Dynamite 7, a soap opera about a human from Macross 11 falling in love with his Zolan maid.

Sure they showed us Macross 11 as an obscure reference but couldn't they have shown Macross 9 too?

Macross 9 was the fleet setting of Macross Generation CD Drama.