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Ranka Lee - Innocent naive teenager or Evil war criminal


taksraven
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I might get lynched for this but i humbly think that Ranka's actions hold more water and feel more matured than Minmay was. Minmay had to juggle between love, career and brother and she got confused on which to give priority to and ended up being cold to hikaru cuz she was emo.

Ranka knew she wants Alto right from the start and get go. Why does she sing? Alto. Why does she fight the Vajra? Alto. Why did she go to Galia 4? Alto. And seeing Alto with Sheryl hurts her inside....its a very human emotion and not something you can control easily unless you're a cyborg. Her song that she sings for Alto means nothing if Alto seemingly does not reciprocrate. Alto plays the typical "cluless indecisive male" of the harem genre. If anything he should be blamed for not choosing one of the two quickly and causing all this heartache and indirectly, deaths, not Ranka.

But hey not much of a show if Alto made his choice in episode 7 right? :lol:

That said i think Ranka h8trs should give the girl a break. She's just girl in the big big universe trying to find happiness. ;)

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Good points wolfx!

Ranka has parallels to Minmay, but what's great is that she's a different character going along a different path. She's not a carbon copy. Some people hated Minmay (and still do). Ranka has had some palm-to-forhead moments, and some moments that have annoyed me. But she doesn't seem like a hateable character, much less a war criminal. Young, naive, innocent, maybe even a bit dumb sometimes (when don't we do stupid things when we're young?). Her heart is in the right place. It's a matter of seeing what her actions and reasons will be. For her? For others? Or a bit of both?

Okay, crap wait. RichterX's argument wins. :p With a face like that, Ranka's a war criminal! ;)

Edited by Sumdumgai
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I've never disliked or felt hate for Ranka. I just never really cared for (or liked for that matter) how she has acted throughout the show. If anything, I think it's how she has acted that brings upon this malcontent (or "hate") for her. After episode 21, however, I see Ranka in a different light...and for the better.

Thus far into the story, I wouldn't say that Ranka is evil by any means. She might have been a bit selfish in the past...but not evil...not by a long shot.

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I might get lynched for this but i humbly think that Ranka's actions hold more water and feel more matured than Minmay was. Minmay had to juggle between love, career and brother and she got confused on which to give priority to and ended up being cold to hikaru cuz she was emo.

Ranka knew she wants Alto right from the start and get go. Why does she sing? Alto. Why does she fight the Vajra? Alto. Why did she go to Galia 4? Alto. And seeing Alto with Sheryl hurts her inside....its a very human emotion and not something you can control easily unless you're a cyborg. Her song that she sings for Alto means nothing if Alto seemingly does not reciprocrate. Alto plays the typical "cluless indecisive male" of the harem genre. If anything he should be blamed for not choosing one of the two quickly and causing all this heartache and indirectly, deaths, not Ranka.

But hey not much of a show if Alto made his choice in episode 7 right? :lol:

That said i think Ranka h8trs should give the girl a break. She's just girl in the big big universe trying to find happiness. ;)

Okay, now I think you're being a little unfair to Minmay...she didn't see Hikaru's romantic potential (and really, who can blame her?) until it was too late, and her schedule seemed to be booked solid all the time. And even if she HAD liked him "that way,' I doubt her handlers would've been thrilled that she had a boyfriend...To paraphrase the Simpsons: "Boys will want to have sex with you, and we want them to believe THEY CAN."

I agree with you on Alto, though. Early on, one could be forgivn for thinking, "What does he need to get it through his skull, some kind of sing-off?" And then even THAT failed to move him.

As Bugs Bunny once said: "What a maroon! What an ignoranimus!" :lol:

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<------- look at that face, she is definitely a war criminal

lol.

I'm pleasantly surprised by this thread. I was actually expecting a lot more of the Ranka haters to show up here.

a few have already shown themselves and possibly more coming soon. Makes pc vs mac fanbois look like sissy girls.

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Ranka knew she wants Alto right from the start and get go. Why does she sing? Alto. Why does she fight the Vajra? Alto. Why did she go to Galia 4? Alto. And seeing Alto with Sheryl hurts her inside....its a very human emotion and not something you can control easily unless you're a cyborg. Her song that she sings for Alto means nothing if Alto seemingly does not reciprocrate. Alto plays the typical "cluless indecisive male" of the harem genre. If anything he should be blamed for not choosing one of the two quickly and causing all this heartache and indirectly, deaths, not Ranka.

But hey not much of a show if Alto made his choice in episode 7 right? :lol:

That said i think Ranka h8trs should give the girl a break. She's just girl in the big big universe trying to find happiness. ;)

Well said, Wolfx, well said. (see? even i'm starting to defend Ranka. was this Ranka's evil plot all along?

*looks at RichterX's avatar* Yes! i do believe it is! ranka, that evil schemer!)

although i don't completely agree that she's more mature or better than minmay. :)

Edited by dreamweaver13
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I might get lynched for this but i humbly think that Ranka's actions hold more water and feel more matured than Minmay was. Minmay had to juggle between love, career and brother and she got confused on which to give priority to and ended up being cold to hikaru cuz she was emo.

But Hikaru was cold on her at the end because he couldn't give up fighting. (I'm recalling SDF-M btw.) Minmay was a girl swept up into her dreams. After Minmay won Ms. Macross, her ambition was to bring happiness to the people of Macross City. Part of the great thing about Minmay was her singing inadvertently turned the tide of war making her the major player in the entire history of Macross. She never really got confused, only questioned why she was singing. Hikaru was always in her mind as a friend, but that changed when he confessed his love.

Ranka is the only character since SDF-M that has had so strong comparisons to Minmay. Every other major female idol was somewhat original. Sharon Apple -- a bad computer program, but original. Mylene Jenius: just by being apart of Firebomber, along with recognizing Minmay's contribution as an individual - and also didn't sing Minmay's songs to further Firebomber's career in Macross 7. Even Sheryl, the girl with a bleak past, and made into a major idol with Grace's help. She never acts or sings like Minmay. Ranka, on the other hand, emulates Minmay's character right down to her working in a Chinese restaurant. Her backstory is different, but she's later said to be the a legend in Minmay's footsteps, stealing Minmay's songs too. Ranka is the anti-Minmay. Ranka's a tool and weapon for and against the Vajra, while Minmay sang to bring peace only.

Ranka knew she wants Alto right from the start and get go. Why does she sing? Alto. Why does she fight the Vajra? Alto. Why did she go to Galia 4? Alto.

It just goes to show how much of a cardboard-tool Ranka is, as she has no real idea of who she is. Makes perfect sense if she ends up being the Vajra Queen.

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Well ep 21 just proved how much of a tool she isn't anymore. She refused to be used by the government anymore, and left to do what she feels should be done. And how exactly does liking Alto and singing for him make her a tool? He never asked her to do it, and he certainly isn't benefiting from it. It's a high school crush.

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But Hikaru was cold on her at the end because he couldn't give up fighting. (I'm recalling SDF-M btw.) Minmay was a girl swept up into her dreams. After Minmay won Ms. Macross, her ambition was to bring happiness to the people of Macross City. Part of the great thing about Minmay was her singing inadvertently turned the tide of war making her the major player in the entire history of Macross. She never really got confused, only questioned why she was singing. Hikaru was always in her mind as a friend, but that changed when he confessed his love.

Ranka is the only character since SDF-M that has had so strong comparisons to Minmay. Every other major female idol was somewhat original. Sharon Apple -- a bad computer program, but original. Mylene Jenius: just by being apart of Firebomber, along with recognizing Minmay's contribution as an individual - and also didn't sing Minmay's songs to further Firebomber's career in Macross 7. Even Sheryl, the girl with a bleak past, and made into a major idol with Grace's help. She never acts or sings like Minmay. Ranka, on the other hand, emulates Minmay's character right down to her working in a Chinese restaurant. Her backstory is different, but she's later said to be the a legend in Minmay's footsteps, stealing Minmay's songs too. Ranka is the anti-Minmay. Ranka's a tool and weapon for and against the Vajra, while Minmay sang to bring peace only.

Well...about Mylene, people also called her the new incarnation of Minmay. And what made Fire Bomber hit the big time? Mylene singing "My Boyfriend's a Pilot" in The Lynn Minmay Story. Hell, Mylene even recorded an entire ALBUM of Minmay songs! (I know, I know...it wasn't in the show.)

It just goes to show how much of a cardboard-tool Ranka is, as she has no real idea of who she is. Makes perfect sense if she ends up being the Vajra Queen.

So just because she knows she wants Alto, that means she has no identity of her own? I don't get it.

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I'm pleasantly surprised by this thread. I was actually expecting a lot more of the Ranka haters to show up here.

I think that it is difficult for the extreme haters to back up their opinions, that explains the no show.

Taksraven

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Well...about Mylene, people also called her the new incarnation of Minmay. And what made Fire Bomber hit the big time? Mylene singing "My Boyfriend's a Pilot" in The Lynn Minmay Story. Hell, Mylene even recorded an entire ALBUM of Minmay songs! (I know, I know...it wasn't in the show.)

So just because she knows she wants Alto, that means she has no identity of her own? I don't get it.

Don't forget the rumours of Basara being the love child of Minmay and Hikaru.

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I think that it is difficult for the extreme haters to back up their opinions, that explains the no show.

Taksraven

Did you see the bout that I had with a couple of them in the Miss Macross Frontier Part III thread recently? They kept pointing to a post in "That Animeblog" as proof that Ranka sucked.

I finally got around to reading that post, and...well, it was some dude's opinion.

If that's the best they can do, then yes...they have no real facts on their side.

Don't forget the rumours of Basara being the love child of Minmay and Hikaru.

Well, I could've mentioned it...but who believes anything printed in the Galaxy Sport?

Well...the story about Gamlin and Basara being lovers is credible, I suppose... :lol:

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Did you see the bout that I had with a couple of them in the Miss Macross Frontier Part III thread recently? They kept pointing to a post in "That Animeblog" as proof that Ranka sucked.

I finally got around to reading that post, and...well, it was some dude's opinion.

If that's the best they can do, then yes...they have no real facts on their side.

http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/31/ma...ranka/#comments

Read everyone's comments down there....

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I find the whole Sheryl vs Ranka debacle truly ridicule, immature, useless and moronic. I'd like a Tomino ending with both killed just to end all the stupid nonsense... <_<

Help, the cynicism from this post is dripping on me, AAARRGHHHH!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Taksraven

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Okay, I read 'em. Now what?

Don't be snide..... :lol:

There are many different povs there. Not all povs are without reason.

She refused a request by her nation to sing for the fallen. The heartbreak comes from her very lack of ill intent as she does so.

As of right now, Ranka is a girl that has broken my heart one time too often. I no longer feel grief at her foibles, but neither do I feel pride at her accomplishments. Hate would be an improvement, it would mean she has the ability to move me to feeling, and my feelings could yet change. Ranka’s actions this episode could lead to the slavation of Frontier and my response will be a resounding “…Eh”. I’m simply no longer emotionally invested in her at all. I’m more interested in Brera, here.

I love how the Ranka shippers keep giving her a free pass on everything she does. They have absolutely NO concept about responsibility. None, zero, zilch. Thousands of people died in the latest attack, including a friend, her best friend is injured, her acting brother is missing, and she can’t sing for the dead at their funeral? All she could do, was cry,”why me, why me?”. Yeah, we wonder why you were chosen too.

Another thing that chaps my hide, these same people(ani_d, BleachOD, diva, and others), don’t take into account, that the characters don’t KNOW what we know. Ranka doesn’t know she’s being used by Leon and Grace. Alto doesn’t know that Ai-kun isn’t like the other Vajra, and that they too are being used by Galaxy. Alto and Ranka don’t know Sheryl is dying. There’s so many things they don’t know. Yet you act like they do.

Ranka didn’t leave Frontier for the good of the fleet or the people. She left because she A) wants to bring Ai-kun back to his own kind, B) Wants to learn more about her own past, and C) heart-broken that Alto hasn’t returned her feelings.

She’s the main weapon they have against the Vajra, and she is taking away the best fighter with her(Brera), and tried to take Alto away(one of the best). What if she came back from her soul searching, and Frontier was wiped out? Would she give a crap then? She certainly hasn’t shown empathy towards people through 21 episodes. Unless it suits her interest.

This is why Sheryl is a better match for Alto. She understands other people, can relate, and puts them above her own needs and wants. She puts herself in other peoples’ shoes as best as she can. Ranka, can’t see their perspectives to save her life.

I believe the fandom would cut Ranka some slack if she had understood the grave seriousness of her situation and the choices she made that went with it. If she went…

“I know my decision is going to affect a lot of people, I know it’s the worst time for this to happen, but I have to go, I need to find out about my past.”

Unfortunately, she didn’t.

It’s good that she stumbled on the right path, but at what cost? This area is so gray, but if she had shown any awareness of what the consequences might bring to her actions instead of focusing on herself and running away from the responsibility that she chose to accept before as the Songstress of Hope, then perhaps everyone won’t be so frustrated and angry with her one-track mind and inability to see the bigger picture around her.

Ranka is basically at the situation where Minmei is.

1) She’s said she doesn’t want to sing anymore as a tool. That’s perfectly fine and dandy - that’s understandable. However, she’s also running out on Frontier AND HER CAREER, which she thought of as quite important at one point. And in doing so, she’s probably killed what career she had as a singer, because it’s not very important to her at this moment, not caring for what the consequences to it are, or whether she’ll want to return to singing as a livelihood in the future. Even Minmay, who ran out on Kaifun, made a point of returning that evening to do the club show she’d been scheduled for.

2) She was screaming along with Alto last episode when Mikhail took the tail-spike in the back. This episode, we don’t even see her mope a bit whereas even ever-cheerful Luca is emo. Instead, she’s asking Alto to leave with her and let bygones be bygones with the Vajra. She doesn’t care about the dead, or apparently so - you’d think she’d have made an apology to them and said that she couldn’t sing right now because of how she felt… or tried to pull a Sheryl and done so anyways since this wasn’t singing to lure the Vajra in, but rather a paean for the dead. She could’ve used quite a few justifications for why she didn’t sing… other than ‘I don’t want to’. Guess which one she used? I can feel your sympathy from here… ooops, forgot the sarcasm flag.

3) She’s always wanted to see Alto at her convenience. She was unhappy about not knowing about his past… and only in Episode 21, eleven episodes after she found out about his past as an actor, does she ask a personal question. She had all that time to get to know him, know about him, know his likes and dislikes. To find out who he really was, beyond that image of the pretty pilot who encouraged her and teased her. To find things she shared in common with him, to use to connect to him beyond the hero-worship she’s always had for him.

She ran off to space without admitting responsibility.

Edited by freya
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Don't be snide..... :lol:

Snide...? Moi? Unthinkable!

There are many different povs there. Not all povs are without reason.

True. But don't you think it odd that one of the people commenting there the most has the same handle as one of the most trollish Ranka Haters here...?

She ran off to space without admitting responsibility.

For what? Yes, she unwittingly intensified the Vajra attack. She was also knowingly instrumental in destroying them.

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Don't be snide..... :lol:

There are many different povs there. Not all povs are without reason.

She ran off to space without admitting responsibility.

Thanks for posting those quotes, very informative.

It seems that most of the extreme Ranka hatred stems from the fact that she is not perfect. Strange since nobody can achieve true perfection (except me, of course).

I am a high school teacher and trust me, I deal with teenage girls who are far more terrifying than Ranka. I'm not saying that she would be a model student, but I think few teachers would dislike her.

Taksraven

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Snide...? Moi? Unthinkable!

:lol: :lol:

For what? Yes, she unwittingly intensified the Vajra attack. She was also knowingly instrumental in destroying them.

Not the Vajra attack. All is hoping on her but she ran away, she isn't at responsible. Her past, yes, she wants to know more but what about the people who depended on this girl? She did not officially step down from the post.... yes, I know she is confused but she's also very childish. First she runs away from the parade, now she runs away from Frontier? She wants Alto to come with her even though the Vajra killed Mikhail. She is too much impulsive, don't you agree? She should think what happens more by people around than herself. There is a limit for everything, even for cute girls like her. :wacko:

Edited by freya
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Not the Vajra attack. All is hoping on her but she ran away, she isn't at responsible. Her past, yes, she wants to know more but what about the people who depended on this girl? She did not officially step down from the post.... yes, I know she is confused but she's also very childish. First she runs away from the parade, now she runs away from Frontier? She wants Alto to come with her even though the Vajra killed Mikhail. She is too much impulsive, don't you agree? She should think what happens more by people around than herself. There is a limit for everything, even for cute girls like her. :wacko:

Again...I don't think so. She knows she can communicate with the Vajra, and that the Vajra Queen tried to communicate with her in ep. 14. So I'm pretty sure she's planning to try to reason with them and end the war completely. Which is not selfish, or childish, or irresponsible. (But is, as you say, impulsive.)

We'll find out on Thursday which of us is right, I guess. If I'm wrong, I'll get you some Nyan Nyan tuna buns. ^_^

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So apparently the "responsible" thing would be for Ranka to just concentrate on her singing career? The responsible thing to do would have been to sing for those mourning after the battle? Staying on Frontier and happily helping to see that those dastardly Vajra get pounded time and again, even when she's begun to realize that the Vajra maybe aren't the soulless killing machines the people of Frontier (and apparently the people making these posts) have been lead to believe?

Are people really able to overlook the fact that Ranka might be the only person who can end the war, and that's not going to happen when she's singing for Grace and Leon and only encountering the Vajra during battle? Are people really able to overlook that Leon put Ranka on the spot in a really horrendous way for his own personal gain?

Seriously, the Sheryl/Ranka rivalry thing was cute. This deep hatred though, and the straws people are grasping at to justify it, that's just disturbing.

Edited by Radd
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2) She was screaming along with Alto last episode when Mikhail took the tail-spike in the back. This episode, we don’t even see her mope a bit whereas even ever-cheerful Luca is emo. Instead, she’s asking Alto to leave with her and let bygones be bygones with the Vajra. She doesn’t care about the dead, or apparently so - you’d think she’d have made an apology to them and said that she couldn’t sing right now because of how she felt… or tried to pull a Sheryl and done so anyways since this wasn’t singing to lure the Vajra in, but rather a paean for the dead. She could’ve used quite a few justifications for why she didn’t sing… other than ‘I don’t want to’. Guess which one she used? I can feel your sympathy from here… ooops, forgot the sarcasm flag.

As for her reactions to all the deaths I think that at some point most people run out of emotions, at least on the outside. And to not giving a reason to why she would not sing when Leon asked her to, given all that she went through along with finding out that Ozma is missing I think that a 'No' works just fine, sometimes you just can't put what needs to said into words. Look at it this way if asked how many people think that Alto and Luca would have put on their EX-Gear and put on a flight demo for the people right after losing Micheal. If it was for Michael, something along the lines of the missing man formation they'd do it, but just if they were asked to?

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The only thing I see here at the moment is a lot of "People who dislike Ranka are trolls" "Yes, they are!" "Oh, yes, yes, they are!".

A thread hating on Ranka haters seems a bit... hyocrytical.

*edit* Hrmpf, sentence building difficult while at work. Durrrr...

And it has been only for the last two or three episodes that my feelings went from "I like her, but I´d wish she´d let Sheryl and Alto do their thing" to "God, can she think about anything but her own perspective for a fricking minute?".

Edited by magnuskn
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I agree with what Radd said.

Same here.

But i look at it this way....Ranka hate or love, the everyday anime fans are talking about MACROSS in heated debates no less! The last time you see these kinda heated debates were the Mac7 fans vs the haters. A welcome change, might i add. ^_^

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Ranka lee:

- Lost her memories due to severe trauma, and can be recalled if emotion condition is unstable.

- The only(?) survivor of Vajra attack on 117th research fleet

- Adopted by Ozma, who lied about his work in the beginning

- Love singing due to memories of Aimo (or because her adopted brother is Fire Bomber maniac?)

- Tried to fulfill her dream by entering Miss Macross but lost

- Unexpectedly became famous due to her role in Birdman movie

- Revealed as Q1 after Galia IV incident, and used as a tool against Vajra

- Refused to sing again after she realized her song is being used for mass murder (Vajra being the victim here)

- part FAST pack and pregnant with fold quartz(??)

She just an innocent teenager with an unlucky fate, she was childish at the beginning but now begin to grow up (since she fall in love with Alto?). I just hope she made the right decision by leaving Alto (and Frontier).

It's kinda like Char Aznable in gundam.

The little fold crystal in her stomach allows her to sense the pain of the people that she kills. I bet she's a good person but being alien (to the humans and zentradi) means she is mislabelled a villain.

The newtypes in gundam are the 'hypersensitive' ones who can either fall to the path of the dark side (char going around dropping poo on the innocent civilians on earth because he is self-righteous), or be white knights defending people in danger through herioc deeds regardless of who is right or wrong, just protecting life. (amuro killing people for peace if it can avoid an escalation which leads to both sides destroying each other using the weapons they built and bringing the planet with it - he fights so others don't have to)

Saying she is a war criminal would be like saying global was one for dealing with the peaceful group of zentradi who don't want to destroy the humans after rediscovering that we are possible descendents of their leaders the PC.

Same thing in mospeada: that humanoid alien also could be thought of a evil and bad just because she is the alien. But she is just like any ordinary being. Just because the inbit are superior and more evolved than the lowly humans with better weapons (up until the shadow legios is made) doesn't mean they are bad. Just that like the humans, they need to expand and grab land to survive.

Same thing in yamato: the dying race knows it is dying so it decides to survive by killing others and taking their lands to survive.

In a lot of these cartoons there is always a neutral side that just wants to end the fights but they are independent of taking orders from either of the two warring nations/species/worlds. The problem is that the more powerful the neutral guys get, the more jealous the two other sides are to have that power and so you have an endless cycle of each side trying to increase their own power. There is both good and evil in all of the species. But it's the few heroes who go beyond only helping "my side/your side" that end up arse-raping the other two using peaceful methods because they are tired of fights. (ie max and miria not harming pilots in the mecha just disabling them)

Ranka is probably neutral, just like all those other characters from all those other shows you've seen. But is just too much a threat because of her abilities so it's easy to label her evil if you are a victim of alien-ownage from previous episodes.

Edited by 1/1 LowViz Lurker
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The only thing I see here at the moment is a lot of "People who dislike Ranka are trolls" "Yes, they are!" "Oh, yes, yes, they are!".

A thread hating on Ranka haters seems a bit... hyocrytical.

I don't think it's hypocritical, perhaps ironic. No one said "People who dislike Ranka are trolls" (faulty generalization) - just that people who dislike Ranka to the point of trying to denigrate every single thing she does, even if it's an innocent mistake or if it doesn't look heroic enough or something else, are just being negative. When I saw this person in another forum doing the same thing with Sheryl I also disliked it, every single action of hers was imputed a meaning that was completely anti-Sheryl and pro-Ranka! I'd hate to be in discussions like that, even if people are doing it to defend my personal choice of favorite character.

Some people have the idea that in order to elevate the perception of their favorite character, they have to always think and talk negative of her rival. This shouldn't be the case. To elevate the perception of your favorite character... we should discuss what's good about her. :D

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