POLL: Dub or Sub?

[miriya]

This poll is a black and white poll.

If you had to choose one which would it be?

I know there are exeptions in both cases but that is not what this is about.

Of course some people will go SUB to keep the original acting and direction intact While some people will go DUB so that they can actually watch the beautiful animation.

So if you had to choose one which would it be?

[ruskiiVFaussie]

I'm going all out with DUB vote.

In some instances DUB can out-do the original. (Ninja Scroll, Streetfighter II etc). Even the soundtrack of SF II kicked the originals arse...

I love both. But subs can be annoying at times (if it's a long drawn out series), and some i watch raw like Mac Zero coz i kno the story inside out,

and plus i'm starting to learn jap phrases so with the story already learnt subs can take even less time of your focus.

If there was a "love both sub an dub" option i'd go that. Love Raw, but it would be nice to focus on the dog fighting without subs popping up in front

all the time. But then that gives you more excuse to re-watch it without concerning yourself with the subs.

RAW viewing should always be excercised after one has got the story and scene in mind, so to experience it in it's "true" form.

Edited August 29, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[Keith]

This topic isn't going to get closed...

But until it does, the answer is without a doubt "subtitles." Dubs are low quality re-writing garbage that kills the baby jebus & sodomizes your mom until she anally bleeds. Subtitles on the other hand while not always 100% correct, preserve the original material & the original acting.

If american dubs were so good, we'd all be hanging out on some forum dedicated to some garbage american cartoon.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

There was no raw option too. Raw is the only way.

I can soak into subs easily enough, i just don't like it showin on screen when the dogfighting action is happenin.

Edited August 29, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[azrael]

Ugh...wrong section.

Topic won't be closed, unless people start acting like morons (And in this age old debate, it can go sour).

[Gubaba]

I like subs better for two reasons...

First, I think Japanese voice actors are generally better (although that may be just because I'm used to hearing Japanese voice with anime images).

Second, it's easier to check the accuracy of the translation.

But thankfully, thanks to DVDs, we no longer have to choose...remember when MacPlus was out on VHS and it was fifteen bucks for the dub but twenty-five for the sub? Man, I hated that...

[Windrider]

I go for subs any day. I've watched some good english dubs but they still fell short of the original japanese one. The only anime I've watched IMO where the dub has matched the original is Cowboy Bebop.

Edited August 29, 2008 by Windrider

[Agent ONE]

For the most part the mouth movements won't ever match enough to make a dub work. Subs are better.

[dreamweaver13]

This topic isn't going to get closed...

But until it does, the answer is without a doubt "subtitles." Dubs are low quality re-writing garbage that kills the baby jebus & sodomizes your mom until she anally bleeds. Subtitles on the other hand while not always 100% correct, preserve the original material & the original acting.

If american dubs were so good, we'd all be hanging out on some forum dedicated to some garbage american cartoon.

SUBS!!! all the way SUBS!

and keith, i love your analogy on dubs! if i didn't run the risk of getting banned for it, i'd add it to my signature!

[yellowlightman]

Kind of an irrelevant argument now that you can buy DVD's with both.

That said, subtitles no question.

[eugimon]

Subs for me as well.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Kind of an irrelevant argument now that you can buy DVD's with both.

That said, subtitles no question.

Yeah i love having both formats on dvd.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

For the most part the mouth movements won't ever match enough to make a dub work. Subs are better.

Sure, the lip sync sucks big time, but that's equally as bad having yellow subtitles sprayed over the screen.

Edited August 29, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[Morpheus]

Sub ftw.

I don't like dub very much, I feel that dub movies/anime is for the retarded.

I remember when my local TV station was airing Slayers dub in local language, and the next day the station received dozens of complain and threats

[lechuck]

If american dubs were so good, we'd all be hanging out on some forum dedicated to some garbage american cartoon.

This makes no sense to me.

What does a "garbage American cartoon" have to do with an "American English dub"?

You do realize that the first voice track of a cartoon aimed for the American market is going to be English.

Or are you trying to brain wash us and tell us that Batman, Superman and Justice League actually had Japanese

track prior to the English one?

[ruskiiVFaussie]

lol.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Subs for me!!!

[Duke Togo]

In my 30-something years, I can count the amount of good dubs I have heard on one hand. A majority of them are not bad, they are horrible.

[Lindem Herz]

Subs, baby! I'm blessed with the ability of (usually) being able to read a proper subtitled release (sentences long enough to not having to look down every three seconds, but short enough to be able to read them in a second at most) and imagining the characters speaking in whatever language the sub is with their own voices, so I don't really need dubs. Besides, if I care enough for a movie or series to get it in its original language, I'm sitting down and watching it instead of just putting it on and going to do something else with it as background noise.

[Radd]

Subtitles.

I know dubs can be good, but so often they're just not. There's a number of reasons for this.

There's even a lot of great english speaking voice actors, but the companies that license anime either cannot afford decent voice actors, are pretty much tone-deaf to what makes for quality voice acting, or feel that the bar is low enough that they don't have to pay for decent voice acting. When medicore, to downright poor, dubs are widely considered "great" just because the bar is set so low, why would any company waste money paying for better talent?

On the other hand, there are still a decent number of american made shows with good voice acting, and sometimes you do see those actors doing dub work for anime as well, unfortunately they're often one or two good voice actors with dozens of poor voice actors.

I'd like to see better dubbing of anime. There's a lot to overcome before that will happen. The way anime dubs are recorded. The way poor dubs are received by the public. Weird perceptions of how to translate voices (why is it that american studios take high pitched or fast speaking female voices and believe that translates to grating, screeching voices? And why must so many male leads, regardless of what their character is actually like, be dubbed with the Saturday morning cartoon hero voice? I swear, the way voices are assigned, if Family Guy was anime and dubbed for American audiences, they'd get the english voice actor for Spike Spiegel to do Peter Griffen's voice). Etcetera.

[Necron_99]

This topic isn't going to get closed...

But until it does, the answer is without a doubt "subtitles." Dubs are low quality re-writing garbage that kills the baby jebus & sodomizes your mom until she anally bleeds. Subtitles on the other hand while not always 100% correct, preserve the original material & the original acting.

If american dubs were so good, we'd all be hanging out on some forum dedicated to some garbage american cartoon.

I couldn't have said it better myself Subs FTMFW!!

[eriku]

I prefer subs because the original actors are always far better than dub actors. I never turn my nose up at a good dub, but they're almost exclusively in Miyazaki films...and even some of those are vomit-inducing.

[Mog]

Generally subs. There's a bit of a subtlety lost in a dub translation. Whether it's a word choice or a voice actor's delivery, sometimes a dub just doesn't get a key scene or two right.

I'm not saying dubs are never good, but the chances of mistranslations and outright errors are far greater in a dub than in a sub.

[Gubaba]

I prefer subs because the original actors are always far better than dub actors. I never turn my nose up at a good dub, but they're almost exclusively in Miyazaki films...and even some of those are vomit-inducing.

Still...if every dub were as good as even the worst of the Disney Miyazaki films, I'd feel much better about dubs on the whole.

[Garou Kuroryuu]

Subs all the way. Perhaps the only exception I remember right now is Golden Boy.

[yellowlightman]

In my 30-something years

Christ, you're old.

[bsu legato]

Sweet zombie Jesus, hasn't this topic been argued to death yet?

And I voted "Dubs" just because I know it'll get the purists to twist their panties in a knot.

[yellowlightman]

Sweet zombie Jesus, hasn't this topic been argued to death yet?

Sh!t was played out by 1995.

Edited August 29, 2008 by yellowlightman

[Bri]

If you ever had to witness the sheer terror of Knightrider with David Hasselhoff in a German dubbed version : Subs for life.

It takes longer to create a (decent) dub then a sub. Who wants to wait a few months to see the latest anime? Also as said before dubs usually have rather poor quality.

[Gubaba]

Sweet zombie Jesus, hasn't this topic been argued to death yet?

And I voted "Dubs" just because I know it'll get the purists to twist their panties in a knot.

Meh. It was a big issue back in the day, since subbed tapes were more expensive. Now we can all relax and discuss the issue calmly...

Maybe.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Sweet zombie Jesus, hasn't this topic been argued to death yet?

I dunno which I love better, Sub versus Dub debates or "could the Enterprise beat a Star Destroyer" debates.

In all seriousness though Dubs, while vilified by the die hards, serve a very important purpose. Dubs help to bring the niche into mainstream and make anime more "accessible" to the non-fan and the casual audience. It's one thing for a fat balding thirty something wearing a chocolate and dorito stained Han Shot First T-shirt to laud the glory of the almighty sub, but if anime is ever to break out of the sidelines and be "taken seriously" by the mass media in the US it will only do so dubbed. But then that raises the question of whether or not fanboys even want their hobby brought into the mainstream or if anime can even survive in the mainstream. The last five years or so that anime has been making pushes into mainstream American television it has made equal retreats. Anime, dubbed or otherwise, simply does not put up the "numbers" here in the states... but it could be argued that the anime the US market has been exposed to has not exactly been legendary.

[Black Valkyrie]

Sub. and thats it.

[Gubaba]

I dunno which I love better, Sub versus Dub debates or "could the Enterprise beat a Star Destroyer" debates.

In all seriousness though Dubs, while vilified by the die hards, serve a very important purpose. Dubs help to bring the niche into mainstream and make anime more "accessible" to the non-fan and the casual audience. It's one thing for a fat balding thirty something wearing a chocolate and dorito stained Han Shot First T-shirt to laud the glory of the almighty sub, but if anime is ever to break out of the sidelines and be "taken seriously" by the mass media in the US it will only do so dubbed. But then that raises the question of whether or not fanboys even want their hobby brought into the mainstream or if anime can even survive in the mainstream. The last five years or so that anime has been making pushes into mainstream American television it has made equal retreats. Anime, dubbed or otherwise, simply does not put up the "numbers" here in the states... but it could be argued that the anime the US market has been exposed to has not exactly been legendary.

You're right, of course, about dubs being necessary. But I think anime already has hit the mainstream. Stores like Best Buy have large anime sections, most book stores have manga sections, and millions of kids all over the world love Pikachu, Son Goku, and Naruto. Spirited Away even won an Oscar, after all.

All of that would have been unthinkable when I first got into anime in the '80s.

I'd like to think that we all understand that dubs will always be necessary and more popular...I took the opening question to be about personal viewing preference, in which case I want it subbed and uncut.

Not that that's surprising, of course...this is Macrossworld. If we weren't hardcore about anime purity, most of us never would have moved beyond Robotech.

[eugimon]

I dunno which I love better, Sub versus Dub debates or "could the Enterprise beat a Star Destroyer" debates.

In all seriousness though Dubs, while vilified by the die hards, serve a very important purpose. Dubs help to bring the niche into mainstream and make anime more "accessible" to the non-fan and the casual audience. It's one thing for a fat balding thirty something wearing a chocolate and dorito stained Han Shot First T-shirt to laud the glory of the almighty sub, but if anime is ever to break out of the sidelines and be "taken seriously" by the mass media in the US it will only do so dubbed. But then that raises the question of whether or not fanboys even want their hobby brought into the mainstream or if anime can even survive in the mainstream. The last five years or so that anime has been making pushes into mainstream American television it has made equal retreats. Anime, dubbed or otherwise, simply does not put up the "numbers" here in the states... but it could be argued that the anime the US market has been exposed to has not exactly been legendary.

While I agree with your arguement, it always struck me as a but odd, I mean, no one would suggest that a french film would have to be released in the US with a voice over. I mean, people would riot if Amélie had been released with I dunno, jessica alba doing a voice over for Audrey Tautou...

[JsARCLIGHT]

While I agree with your arguement, it always struck me as a but odd, I mean, no one would suggest that a french film would have to be released in the US with a voice over. I mean, people would riot if Amélie had been released with I dunno, jessica alba doing a voice over for Audrey Tautou...

"French Films" are not intended for mass consumption in the US no matter how some people think they are. "Anime" on the other hand to the American mass market is looked at as "what can we dub and release on Saturday morning cartoons, market the crap out of, release a million toys for and make a mint". From Naruto to Pokemon to YuGiOh, anime is simply the flavor of the month that is cheap to "import" and sell. From a business standpoint a lot of the as yet untapped popular animes are goldmines in the waiting. They already have toys designed and made, they pretty much market themselves and for a slim investment of broadcast rights and some quick dubbing and editing a venture capitalist can draw some serious cash in the market.

A question that I have is when an American TV show or movie is released overseas is it dubbed into the native language? Many times it is. Is that "wrong"? Are foreign fanboys clamoring to see The X Files, The Simpsons or the latest Disney cartoon in English with Russian or German subtitles? I think there is a great degree of strange haughtiness and self-righteousness in the American anime fan when it comes to subbing and dubbing that is not necessarily there in our foreign counterparts. Then again almost all of our foreign counterparts speak or at least understand rudimentary English so they don't have the same shortcomings the vast majority of westerners have being monolingual.

Edit: And my comment about anime not performing well on US television is in reference to the shows are that NOT watered down and homoginized. Anime on Adult Swim is a ratings graveyard for them and many people still wonder why they still show it as their domestic comedy shows outperform it three to one generally. The American market has shown that hard core "real" anime shows perform poorly here while "Americanized" dubbed "kid friendly" junk that can be mass marketed like Naruto can hold their own in the toy isle and in the 8 to 12 demographics.

Edit o' the Edit: Also outside of us nutjob fanboys subtitles are actually stigmatized in the regular circles. Most Americans will groan and roll their eyes at subtitles but if the program is dubbed they will stand a greater chance of watching it and warming to it. It's always a tough call to mass release a foreign film that is subtitled in US theaters. Subtitles are almost always relegated to the "art house set" and it's kind of an unspoken "rule" in hollywood that Joe and Jill Six Pack (the people who generally pay to see movies or buy videos) won't abide subtitles. A good example of this is my own experience long ago trying to indoctrinate friends into anime. I found it was far, far easier to get a friend who had no prior interest in watching "them foreign cartoons" to sit down and watch when the program was dubbed. Akira was always my "first strike" in college. I'd show someone the dubbed Akira and see how they took to it. If they did I'd slowly bring them into other shows, eventually going to subs. But there were some people who'd watch dubbed Akira then see the subbed version and tell me they would not have "given it a chance" if I had shown them the subbed version first.

The circular return of my point is that dubbing caters to the new, the uninitiated and the masses while subs cater to the hardcore regular. If you want to sell your "funny foreign cartoon" to the masses, you need to dub it. If you want to sell "Super Noodle Crazy Indie Robot Children Go" to the thirty something single fat guy with a ponytail you sub it and sell it on dvd for $35 and pray you cover your costs. It's all business in the end, none of this crap qualifies as "art" anymore IMHO. If you think the current state of most anime is art then that means Alvin and the Chipmunks and the Smurfs qualify as well.