edwin3060 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I know Gundam often gets flack here on MW, but please give me and my post the benefit of the doubt. I wasn't really referring to the stylistic differences in combat between Gundam mobile suit fights and Macross valkyrie battles. I was talking about real world animation techniques and that I've been spoiled by the accomplishments of Macross Frontier CGI animation. I've always been both praising and critical of CGI animation in anime, but Macross Frontier is the first series I've watched where the CGI mecha animation has finally caught up with and even surpassed that unique visual style we've all come to know and love from 2D hand drawn animation from Japan. Now, going back to something like Gundam 00 after experiencing something like Macross Frontier, it's a little bit disappointing because Macross Frontier has spoiled my taste for the best that CGI mecha action can offer over 2D. For me, Macross Frontier really is a turning point for anime mecha action, at least in a visual sense if not in a narrative sense. It began with toon shaded CGI vehicles in stuff like Ghost in the Shell: SAC and Yukikaze, but Macross Frontier is really the show that has brought this type of animation into it's own. The Macross Frontier CGI mecha animation at lasts feels "anime-like" in the conceptualization and execution of the scenes. It finally feels like I'm watching Japanese style animation with that same aesthetic feeling and the same Itano Circus, only in 3D now rather than 2D. Even Macross Zero, with a bigger per episode budget and higher polygon count models, did not achieve a successful merging of CGI technology with aesthetic style the way Macross Frontier has. That's all I was really saying. Besides, I'm having a ball with Gundam 00 and trust me when I say that means a lot coming from me Hmm I don't know about that-- it may be the subs that I'm watching, but I've noticed that there always seems to be a kind of fuzzy 'halo' around the VFs in MacF that aren't present in Mac0 which spoils the effect for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final Vegeta Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 That was my big problem with Frontier. No true aces that they showed off Ozma and Brera did Alto showed he had talent. Klan was good but no ace. All in all though skill has still been more important than big guns in Frontier. FV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REbirth Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hmm I don't know about that-- it may be the subs that I'm watching, but I've noticed that there always seems to be a kind of fuzzy 'halo' around the VFs in MacF that aren't present in Mac0 which spoils the effect for me. No that's true, that also happens in Aquarion's space battle sequence, it seems the animation staff adds a "shiny" effect to the mechs so they can stand out in the blackness of Space or something. But the movie is gonna focus more on the atmospheric fight, which is Macross Zero (and Satelight)'s strong point. I wish they could get Ichiro Itano back, that guy is a genius in dogfighting choreography. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final Vegeta Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 No that's true, that also happens in Aquarion's space battle sequence, it seems the animation staff adds a "shiny" effect to the mechs so they can stand out in the blackness of Space or something. And that's why I like it. 00 may have beatiful animation, but the palette is too dark. You give people slightly different mecha because that way you instantly know who pilots what, and then you are afraid of make mecha distinguishable from the background? It makes no sense FV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REbirth Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 And that's why I like it. 00 may have beatiful animation, but the palette is too dark. You give people slightly different mecha because that way you instantly know who pilots what, and then you are afraid of make mecha distinguishable from the background? It makes no sense FV Well, even in Macross DYRL, missiles and stuffs shine in space, so no complain from here either. Kidding aside, I prefer the gorgeous atmospheric environ that Satelight made in M0 (and ALL THAT VF videos) than space, so I'll be more looking forward to the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin3060 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 No that's true, that also happens in Aquarion's space battle sequence, it seems the animation staff adds a "shiny" effect to the mechs so they can stand out in the blackness of Space or something. But the movie is gonna focus more on the atmospheric fight, which is Macross Zero (and Satelight)'s strong point. I wish they could get Ichiro Itano back, that guy is a genius in dogfighting choreography. Yea.. thats something that just bugs me visually I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hmm I don't know about that-- it may be the subs that I'm watching, but I've noticed that there always seems to be a kind of fuzzy 'halo' around the VFs in MacF that aren't present in Mac0 which spoils the effect for me. I have no idea what you're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin3060 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) I have no idea what you're talking about. This is what I mean-- you mean you don't notice the weird blurry halo around the VF? Edit: Added some other pics-- the halo seems to appear around things like the Mac Quarter etc as well in the second picture. In the third picture taken from the OP, everything just looks a little blurry. I just never noticed these things in Macross Zero? Maybe the atmosphere provided a brighter background so the halo effect was not as pronounced? Edited February 25, 2009 by edwin3060 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) The VF-25S Armored transformation had an obvious dramatic glow for that particular sequence, same for the final battle. Can't see anything in the third picture. And yes, Macross Frontier CGI worked much better than the CGI in Macross Zero. Despite being far more detailed and higher in polygon count, the CGI in Macross Zero felt like watching tiny models; the mecha lacked a sense of weight and scale. In Macross Frontier the mecha had none of these problems. Edited February 25, 2009 by Mr March Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin3060 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) Still, those are just some of the few scenes where they had that glow effect--- and the third scene is 'blurry' i.e. the models are not well defined. The same goes for the first two pictures--- discounting the glow effect the VF itself is blurry. I think the overall higher polygon count helped Mac0 after all. Edited February 26, 2009 by edwin3060 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Still, those are just some of the few scenes where they had that glow effect--- and the third scene is 'blurry' i.e. the models are not well defined. The same goes for the first two pictures--- discounting the glow effect the VF itself is blurry. I think the overall higher polygon count helped Mac0 after all. I think in the third picture the models themselves are fine, an ti's jsut that the whole shot is intentionality a little defocused. as for the first and to a lesser extent second, it again has less to do with the actual model and more to do with the cinematography. the first scene definitely looks like they purposefully made that shot shaky and blurry to impart a sense of movement when the scene is playing. and with the first part it doesn't help that it has a LOT of compression artifacts and looks like it came from a low quality TV rip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin3060 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) I think in the third picture the models themselves are fine, an ti's jsut that the whole shot is intentionality a little defocused. as for the first and to a lesser extent second, it again has less to do with the actual model and more to do with the cinematography. the first scene definitely looks like they purposefully made that shot shaky and blurry to impart a sense of movement when the scene is playing. and with the first part it doesn't help that it has a LOT of compression artifacts and looks like it came from a low quality TV rip. Ahh well, that may explain it then. I've been watching the subbed TV rips all these time-- saving the BD/DVD rips for when the whole series is out so I can watch it in one go! I guess this: " shaky and blurry to impart a sense of movement when the scene is playing" may help some people into thinking that the VF is blended into the rest of the scene better, but to me it actually makes the VF stand out more and look artificially implanted into the background. Edited February 26, 2009 by edwin3060 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Shin had potential to be an VF ace..but we'll just never know, will we? Also, why do I see DD being listed under Roy? I'm pretty sure they fought to some sort of stalemate in every match up. (On the other hand, smoother Roy would have probably handed Nora her ass.) I think the stated reason was that DD got himself killed and Roy didn't, but the real reason is probably that people like Roy more than DD If you read back to the OP, the pilots were ranked based on the peak of their pilot skills. DD and roy battled to stalemate during the macross 0 timeframe, but i think most of considered Roy's SW1 stint as his peak. during that time, Roy would have been better than DD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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