Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread III *Read 1st Post*

[Zinjo]

The SDF-2 design wasn't scrapped for the refit version. It wound up being redesigned and reclassified as the colonization ship that we now know as the Megaroad-01.

True, however it isn't clear whether the Global was patterened after the SDF-1 or SDF-2 designs. The SDF-2 was 400m longer than the Macross and likely had designed spaces for various missions (civilian space for short range colonization fleets or military facilities for escort missions), unlike the Macross. The NMC is approximately the same size as the SDF-2 Megalord warship. Thus that size must have had benefits to the military for it to become a standard size for Macross type warships.

[RedWolf]

Judging by the ARMD units size Global is the same class as the SDF-1 Macross Refit.

Also the SDF-2 bridge is different from the SDF-1.

[Zinjo]

Judging by the ARMD units size Global is the same class as the SDF-1 Macross Refit.

Also the SDF-2 bridge is different from the SDF-1.

We only see the Global in Attacker mode, and we've only seen the Megalord in cruiser mode, so that is not conclusive.

The bridge difference is certainly apparent. Only Kawamori knows for sure which ship chasis the Macross class warships are patterned after and that hasn't been revealed yet.

I suspect we'll know for sure when the Global is featured in the Chronicle.

[Radd]

Er, the Global clearly looked identical (or nearly identical) to the DYRL and later version of the SDF-1 Macross. We had several very clear shots of the ship to see that. There would be some significant visual differences if it was based on the unused SDF-2 design. Proportion, the bridge, the shape of the leg-like sections, and in the central torso itself (even assuming it was redesigned to fold up like the SDF-1).

[taksraven]

This has probably been covered before, but does anybody else think it is silly that the VF-171 is equipped with a PPB system (at least for punches) and the VF-25 is not. You would think that PPB would be standard on ALL Valks AND Destroids.

Taksraven

[Master Dex]

This has probably been covered before, but does anybody else think it is silly that the VF-171 is equipped with a PPB system (at least for punches) and the VF-25 is not. You would think that PPB would be standard on ALL Valks AND Destroids.

Taksraven

Except that the VF-25 does have a PPB as was used by Ozma in episode 17 to protect the Quarter Pounder's bridge from a Vajra attack.

[d3v]

Except that the VF-25 does have a PPB as was used by Ozma in episode 17 to protect the Quarter Pounder's bridge from a Vajra attack.

Not only that, but their knives also use the PPB to help them cut, as was revealed in the specs.

Edited October 13, 2008 by d3v

[wolfx]

Problem is its easy to forget since they were only used once as a force field on the VF-25. And they never ever used it on the VF-25's shield which made us assume the PPB only came with the armored pack.

I still don't trust the DVD included specs until a more official source is released. It seems to be missing stuff like internal missiles. (or was this confirmed that the VF-25 has no missiles without the packs? kinda silly if u ask me)

[Sumdumgai]

Problem is its easy to forget since they were only used once as a force field on the VF-25. And they never ever used it on the VF-25's shield which made us assume the PPB only came with the armored pack.

I still don't trust the DVD included specs until a more official source is released. It seems to be missing stuff like internal missiles. (or was this confirmed that the VF-25 has no missiles without the packs? kinda silly if u ask me)

Despite us having seen the VF-25 launch missiles without fast packs on, the specs say that it has no missiles when it's un-armored and un-fast packed. Go figure.

[wolfx]

Despite us having seen the VF-25 launch missiles without fast packs on, the specs say that it has no missiles when it's un-armored and un-fast packed. Go figure.

But the latest Macross Ace Frontier video game says it has 2 types of missiles, though should not be considered as canon. I'll wait for a Kawamori Design Works or something more "concrete".

Personally I feel it really weird that the VF-25 would "devolve" into a VF-11 and not carry any missiles. I assume the VF-25 should have missile hardpoints despite not being shown in the anime to carry missiles....though seen to carry "Speakerpods" on Michel's VF-25G.

[taksraven]

Not only that, but their knives also use the PPB to help them cut, as was revealed in the specs.

Sory, I am officially a....

my brain not work good always. Duh!

Taksraven

Edited October 13, 2008 by taksraven

[d3v]

But the latest Macross Ace Frontier video game says it has 2 types of missiles, though should not be considered as canon. I'll wait for a Kawamori Design Works or something more "concrete".

Personally I feel it really weird that the VF-25 would "devolve" into a VF-11 and not carry any missiles. I assume the VF-25 should have missile hardpoints despite not being shown in the anime to carry missiles....though seen to carry "Speakerpods" on Michel's VF-25G.

Wasn't it being discussed somewhere that the V-25 did have hardpoints on its wings?

Edited October 13, 2008 by d3v

[azrael]

The VF-25 probably does have wing hard points but, I haven't seen any literature on it. Maybe in the Chronicle or in a later DVD liner notes. In episode 17, we see Alto's, Michel's and Luca's VFs carrying reaction missiles. So it has something.

At this point, I'm gonna say that the missiles we saw in episode 1 were an animation mistake. Both DVD/Blu-ray editions and TV airings never fixed it. So it's either an animation mistake or perhaps there was something off-screen firing missiles at the red guy and Gilliam's VF-25 happen to be in the same direction.

Internal hardpoints? I'm looking at the model and I don't honestly see how one could even fit a mini-missile launcher around there.

[d3v]

Internal hardpoints? I'm looking at the model and I don't honestly see how one could even fit a mini-missile launcher around there.

Maybe they're using Varauta War era "super non-existent missile launchers" that appear in the the VF-11s despite not being in the official lineart.

Edited October 13, 2008 by d3v

[badboy00z]

But the latest Macross Ace Frontier video game says it has 2 types of missiles, though should not be considered as canon. I'll wait for a Kawamori Design Works or something more "concrete".

Personally I feel it really weird that the VF-25 would "devolve" into a VF-11 and not carry any missiles. I assume the VF-25 should have missile hardpoints despite not being shown in the anime to carry missiles....though seen to carry "Speakerpods" on Michel's VF-25G.

Well the VF-25 is pretty much always equipped with either super pack or full armor. They have plenty of missiles and I think the fact that they're so versatile removes the need for internally stored missiles.

Also how does the YF-21 store its missiles?? The arms and legs take up all the space in the fuselage.

[wolfx]

The VF-25 probably does have wing hard points but, I haven't seen any literature on it. Maybe in the Chronicle or in a later DVD liner notes. In episode 17, we see Alto's, Michel's and Luca's VFs carrying reaction missiles. So it has something.

At this point, I'm gonna say that the missiles we saw in episode 1 were an animation mistake. Both DVD/Blu-ray editions and TV airings never fixed it. So it's either an animation mistake or perhaps there was something off-screen firing missiles at the red guy and Gilliam's VF-25 happen to be in the same direction.

Internal hardpoints? I'm looking at the model and I don't honestly see how one could even fit a mini-missile launcher around there.

The reaction missiles were attached to the fastpacks and not the wings per se IIRC.

As for internal hardpoints, probably go the same route as the YF-21. Micro missiles.

[anime52k8]

Well the VF-25 is pretty much always equipped with either super pack or full armor. They have plenty of missiles and I think the fact that they're so versatile removes the need for internally stored missiles.

I know it's been stated somewhere that the VF-25 has at least 2 external hard points on each wing, and if you look at both the animation model and the bandai kit, you'll notice that it has what looks like 3 hard points on each wing plus what apear to be hard points on each wing glove.

it's been known pretty much from the beginning of the series that the VF-25 was designed by SK to be a departure form real world fighter design, particularly passive stealth features (like internal weapon stores).

also its a fact that SK designed the VF-25 with the intention that it have super/armor packs attached 90% of the time. so as you said, the large missile load the packs offer negates the need to have internal weapon stores. not to mention SK wanted the VF-25 to be very skinny (since it would be using super/armor parts so often) so it would make seance that in order to accomplish that he made the continuous decision to not give it internal missiles, therefore eliminating the cavernous bays needed to store them.

as for wear the missiles come from when the VF-25 is launching them without fast packs; It's possible that it's supposed to be carrying missiles in either pods full of mini missiles or in groups of 3 medium range missiles like the VF-1 used to (the VF-171's are shown with this set up. it would make seance that the VF-25 could too) and the lack of stuff on the wings is an animation error.

Also how does the YF-21 store its missiles?? The arms and legs take up all the space in the fuselage.

well, since the missiles launch from the 4 little back diamonds on the back, I would assume that the missiles are stored in thin bays are only 1 missile deep and spread across the back of the fighter fuselage.

[anime52k8]

The reaction missiles were attached to the fastpacks and not the wings per se IIRC.

As for internal hardpoints, probably go the same route as the YF-21. Micro missiles.

the reaction missiles were attached to the fastpacks when the mech is wearing the armor packs, but in ep. 16 you see Alto, Michel, and Luca using super packs with a reaction missile on each wing.

as for saying that the 25 uses micro missiles internally like the YF-21, the problem is that on the YF-21 it is clearly shown exactly were on the mech the missiles fire from (those black diamonds on the back). On the 25, there isn't even a place were the missiles could possibly come out let alone be stored.

[sketchley]

IMHO, there are weapon pallets (erm, what's the new term used in Chronicle? "Multi-weapon Bay") in the lower legs/engine nacelles.

Before anyone discounts this, keep in mind that the VF-25's body (thus internal space in the legs) is larger than the majority of the preceeding VFs. In addition, ALL VFs from the VF-5000 onwards have either an internal micro-missile launcher or a weapon pallet in the lower legs/engine nacelles.

I won't be surprised if a later published VF-25 stats includes them. Though, with some of the VF's, one has to look closely at Shoji Kawamori's notes on the lineart (VF-11D Kai's engine nacelle super part contained weapon pallet and reverse firing micro-missile launcher, etc.). Here's hoping that we get the release of VF-25 and VF-27 lineart like the good ol' days in a This is Animation format.

(...)

Internal hardpoints? I'm looking at the model and I don't honestly see how one could even fit a mini-missile launcher around there.

[d3v]

IMHO, there are weapon pallets (erm, what's the new term used in Chronicle? "Multi-weapon Bay") in the lower legs/engine nacelles.

But as of now the currently released lineart doesn't have them (besides, the space in the legs is used to store the elevators in Battroid mode).

Speaking of which, does anyone have a copy of that lineart? I remember that it was posted in the older mecha/tech thread but I don't have the time to look for it.

[theplasticwerks]

The VF-25 probably does have wing hard points but, I haven't seen any literature on it.

Does no one remember Mikhail carrying speakers in Ep. 12?

[d3v]

Does no one remember Mikhail carrying speakers in Ep. 12?

Pretty much everyone's brain shut off after the "kira!"

[hobbes221]

But as of now the currently released lineart doesn't have them (besides, the space in the legs is used to store the elevators in Battroid mode).

Speaking of which, does anyone have a copy of that lineart? I remember that it was posted in the older mecha/tech thread but I don't have the time to look for it.

Is this what you're looking for?

[SchizophrenicMC]

It's not a fighter if it doesn't have wing hardpoints. That's my philosophy! Even today's stealth fighters have them. (Given, there's only 2 on the F-22...)

The VF-25 has at least 2 underwing hardpoints per wing, with a possibility of overwing hardpoints. (The SV-51 had them, why not the VF-25?) It would help explain the FAST Pack mounting. Also, the Speaker Pods are good proof of at least 4 total UW hardpoints.

besides, the space in the legs is used to store the elevators in Battroid mode-d3v

Um, you've got your terminology messed around. No VF has ever had elevators. (The VA-3 is a VA) Elevons are different from Elevators, as they are more for aileron movement, but in a delta wing fashion. What do you mean by elevators?

[David Hingtgen]

He means ventral fins.

PS--F-14 doesn't have any wing-mounted hardpoints. (the glove pylons are just that--glove-mounted)

And many F-8's never had any wing-mounted hardpoints, and it was one of the "purest" fighter jets ever built.

[badboy00z]

The legs on the 25 is way too skinny for a weapons pallet/ bay.

[anime52k8]

It's not a fighter if it doesn't have wing hardpoints. That's my philosophy! Even today's stealth fighters have them. (Given, there's only 2 on the F-22...)

The VF-25 has at least 2 underwing hardpoints per wing, with a possibility of overwing hardpoints. (The SV-51 had them, why not the VF-25?) It would help explain the FAST Pack mounting. Also, the Speaker Pods are good proof of at least 4 total UW hardpoints.

ok now overwing hard points we have no real evidence for. we see 6 points that look like hardpoints on each wing, up two 4 of them are used in the show. we also see what look like two hard points on the spikes that project from the wing gloves.

and as for the legs, the legs have a thin panel that pops open, and under it is the engine. that's it. no room for anything else in there.

[Graham]

Definitely 3 hard points per wing on the VF-25.

The very early promo movies even showed the VF-25 with wing mounted ordnance similar to that carried by the VF-171.

Graham

[d3v]

Is this what you're looking for?

Thank you!

As for the the panel on the legs, we've argued over that before and come to the conclusion that - based on both the size and function (to cover the ventral fins) as well as the lack of any animated evidence to the contrary - they are, at the very least, not any form of missile bay or what have you.

Edited October 14, 2008 by d3v

[Morpheus]

Thank you!

As for the the panel on the legs, we've argued over that before and come to the conclusion that - based on both the size and function (to cover the ventral fins) as well as the lack of any animated evidence to the contrary - they are, at the very least, not any form of missile bay or what have you.

Well the on the model kit, the panels open up so we can fold the tail stabilizer and also unlocking the feet extension.

[grss1982]

Definitely 3 hard points per wing on the VF-25.

The very early promo movies even showed the VF-25 with wing mounted ordnance similar to that carried by the VF-171.

Graham

Its actually two per wing.

The reaction missiles were attached to the fastpacks and not the wings per se IIRC.

As for internal hardpoints, probably go the same route as the YF-21. Micro missiles.

See picture above.

You are actually talking about the Armored Pack and not the Super Pack.

When an Armored Pack is used it seems the entire wing is encased in armor thus not usable for mounting additional weaponry.

Edited October 14, 2008 by grss1982

[Morpheus]

Its actually two per wing.

That's because the inner hardpoint was used up by the SUPER pack. So VF-25 with SUPER/ARMOR pack can carry 4 extra missiles on wing/ARMOR pack hardpoints, while normal VF-25 could carry up to 6 extra missiles on its hardpoints.

BTW, does VF-27 have wing hardpoints?

[David Hingtgen]

The VF-25's wings are not fully encased when full armor is used. They are simply swept very far back, and end up behind/surrounded by armor parts, but not "totally encased" as many people think---the purplish wing-shaped extensions from the boosters are not a cover for the wingtips.. The tips are clearly visible here between the booster nozzles:

[Graham]

Its actually two per wing.

There are three hardpoints per wing (not including the spike on thhe front of the wing glove, which is likely the Super Pack attachment point).

The three wing hard points can clearly be seen in many pics of the VF-25, not to mention on the model kit.

I think the reason that only two reaction missiles are carried is that they are too large.

Graham

macross_f_2.bmp

[hobbes221]

I had asked Mr March about the hardpoints in the Macross Mecha Manual a few days ago here

Edited October 14, 2008 by hobbes221