Final Vegeta Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I guess this puts Birla in a more positive light. He sure seemed rather villainous and ominous in the beginning, but I suppose that was the intent of the creative team to keep us guessing. It is interesting to note how mysterious people are automatically assumed as villainous unless proved otherwise. Bilra was just shown in the dark, after all, he never did anything evil. Even now, he is just assumed to be a secret benefactor just because Galaxy is now openly evil. FV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka_Z Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 (edited) This is the episode 15 thread. oops ^^ I really should start using vanpanq's avatar image of kaname smacking souseke with the halisen... forgetting which thread I am posting in... sheesh... Edited July 20, 2008 by Shaka_Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeros Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Which begs the question: how much does Sir Richard Branson...er, I mean Richard Birla know about the the Grace/Galaxy conspiracy? If he knows plenty, why didn't he let anyone else know? Perhaps he suspected the Galaxy/NUNS collusion that's going on right now, between Grace and Leon? Perhaps Birla felt that if he were to let anyone know, he might bring attention upon himself and his company before he was ready to move his resources into play? That might explain a lot and why the Grace/Galaxy conspiracy didn't expect Birla and his SMS company to play such a big factor. If Mr Birla is able to block Grace's surveillance, maybe he put the same on Leon when he meets Grace on disguise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 With high anticipation I started to watch Kei's subs but after running 1/2 of this episode, I grew so annoyed that I paused the whole thing, loaded this thread and voted 'Negative'. What were the makers thinking? That the viewers and in particular: me, would be satisfied with another rehash of previous episodes? Re-using all the occurances I have already seen before? The rest of this abomination they call episode 15 must be very very expensive to make, but the first frames showing Sheryl sitting on her sickbed and Grace talking to her made me cringe even more, what horrible animation! And those annoying voice-overs, if it meant to be comical, I'm not laughing. Gods, I'm so pissed and feeling betrayed. I really hope for the DVD-release's sake, they rewrite and remake this whole episode to blot out this shameful lowpoint of otherwise a great series. wow, what can i say about this one? making a review and giving a rating even before the episode was done? jeez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 More and more I'm convinced that the Grace-collective are the consciousness of 5 scientists from the 117th fleet that want to transform Frontier into a Vajra Colony and use Ranka (Queen 1) to control the bugs... To what end? Total domination of the Galaxy... Maybe one of those 5 was once Dr. Mao Nome...!!! NO! I know the truth now. those voices are... hikaru, misa and minmei! yes, it is their ultimate plan of revenge against humanity for not launching rescue fleets to find them! before dying they saved their consciousness and merged them into one AI, and interconnected it with the rest of the fleet using fold communications. so far, it's been misa's AI that is taking the initiative. but if ranka becomes a loose cannon in their plans, wait for the minmei AI to take control, and witness the greatest sing-off in macross history! and of course, in all this, the hikaru AI is deciding which of the other two AIs to finally agree with. hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisaForever Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Wow, I'm gone two days and this is only as far as this thread has gotten? I'M SHOCKED. I still voted positive. Even though it was mostly a clip show, the new information was cool and the whole Sheryl/Ranka dance tease was AWESOME!!!! I can't wait for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I liked this episode a lot. I don't watch a lot of anime and typically dread recap episodes. It was nice to have this recap done by beings (?) other than the characters whose POV we had it from the first time. If this had been narrated by Alto or Ranka it would have been horrible. Since it was mostly a recap from Grace who is quickly becoming the most interesting character it really helped open the show up. Tons of new info all while recapping... very good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 If Mr Birla is able to block Grace's surveillance, maybe he put the same on Leon when he meets Grace on disguise Perhaps. I just get the feeling Richard Birla knows something. That's what I hope at the very least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Perhaps. I just get the feeling Richard Birla knows something. That's what I hope at the very least Densha Otoko (Train man) VS Galaxy Anonymous aka GraceChan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Perhaps. I just get the feeling Richard Birla knows something. That's what I hope at the very least i would indeed be disappointed if bilra turns out to be just another person who doesn't know what's going on. so here's to hoping that he KNOWS everything. or at least most of it. the intrigue and secrecy aspect of Frontier is vastly superior to its macross predecessors. and for that, i'm enjoying it thoroughly. cathy and ozma is giving me a "misato-kaji" vibe of officers trying to get at the bottom of the conspiracy. even ozma isn't sure who to trust yet, since he warned Alto against giving too much information to Bilrer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 i would indeed be disappointed if bilra turns out to be just another person who doesn't know what's going on. so here's to hoping that he KNOWS everything. or at least most of it. the intrigue and secrecy aspect of Frontier is vastly superior to its macross predecessors. and for that, i'm enjoying it thoroughly. cathy and ozma is giving me a "misato-kaji" vibe of officers trying to get at the bottom of the conspiracy. even ozma isn't sure who to trust yet, since he warned Alto against giving too much information to Bilrer. I'm getting an Eva vibe from the whole series...so perhaps (like in Eva) there are only two people who know the whole story, and neither of them tell it. I hope not, of course, but I'm preparing myself for an inconclusive ending... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 even ozma isn't sure who to trust yet, since he warned Alto against giving too much information to Bilrer. That may have been just a "don't babble in front of your superior" comment. I'm inclined to believe that it's not an accident that Ozma, the guardian of Ranka, is working for Mr. Bilrer. And that would suggest that there's at least some coordination and cooperation between the two of them. But it's all speculation at this point. Hopefully we find out for certain in episode 16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 That may have been just a "don't babble in front of your superior" comment. I'm inclined to believe that it's not an accident that Ozma, the guardian of Ranka, is working for Mr. Bilrer. And that would suggest that there's at least some coordination and cooperation between the two of them. But it's all speculation at this point. Hopefully we find out for certain in episode 16. hmm... that's also possible. it would also be nice to find out that Bilrer and ozma are also into their own little conspiracy against the other group. after all, it was ozma who went to great lengths to keep ranka's origins a secret. but as you said, it's all speculation. bring ep16 on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I'm getting an Eva vibe from the whole series...so perhaps (like in Eva) there are only two people who know the whole story, and neither of them tell it. I hope not, of course, but I'm preparing myself for an inconclusive ending... me too. but i will resist opening a "watch Eva much, shoji" thread for now. hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron5864 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 So Mr. Richard Pillard must be a regular customer at the Folmo Model Train store. Another thing that bothers me is that Klan Klan seems to be feeding chopped pineapples to Mikhail. I hope he never took a bite of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 So Mr. Richard Pillard must be a regular customer at the Folmo Model Train store. Another thing that bothers me is that Klan Klan seems to be feeding chopped pineapples to Mikhail. I hope he never took a bite of it. Actually Roy didn't get a bite of pineapple salad. Kakizaki didn't finish his steak. Densha Otoko is said to be a real life story on how a otaku, who stood up against a drunk on a train, got into a relationship with a girl with the help of 2chan members. So you see the humorous irony of Bilrer vs Grace-tachi. Though I'd label Grace-tachi more like 4chan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 It's just Pineapples! It's not Pineapple Salad she's giving him! Remember, people - Pineapples = Good! Salad = Good! Pinapples + Salad = Bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Actually Roy didn't get a bite of pineapple salad. Kakizaki didn't finish his steak. hmmm... in that sense, Michael should have eaten the pineapple in order for him to be spared. damn, these rules about the pineapple are getting more complicated every day. Densha Otoko is said to be a real life story on how a otaku, who stood up against a drunk on a train, got into a relationship with a girl with the help of 2chan members. So you see the humorous irony of Bilrer vs Grace-tachi. Though I'd label Grace-tachi more like 4chan. Ha! Densha Otoko vs. 4chan. now that sounds more right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 (edited) It's just Pineapples! It's not Pineapple Salad she's giving him! Remember, people - Pineapples = Good! Salad = Good! Pinapples + Salad = Bad! ok... let's go back to the pizzas. i think those pizzas have pineapple toppings. if so, the rules you gave are right. or you can even add this. Pineapples = Good! Salad = Good! Pinapples + Salad = Bad! Pineapples + Pizza = Very Good! Spared from imminent death. actually, waitaminute... just WHAT IS pineapple salad in the first place? What do you have to add to pineapple to make it a salad? sigh, the mystery just gets deeper and deeper... Edited July 21, 2008 by dreamweaver13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 just WHAT IS pineapple salad in the first place? What do you have to add to pineapple to make it a salad? sigh, the mystery just gets deeper and deeper... http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pineapple+salad /innocent whistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pineapple+salad /innocent whistle Dammit, that just NEEDS to be added to the compendium! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerocombatpilot Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 hmmm... in that sense, Michael should have eaten the pineapple in order for him to be spared. damn, these rules about the pineapple are getting more complicated every day. I hate to say it but, those were apples she was feeding him not pineapples. If you look at the frame you clearly see a ton of red apples, and what appears to be a grader. Possible she was feeding him homemade applesauce, but I don't believe it was pineapples therefore Michael has nothing to worry about. Ozma on the other hand, had better put his house in order; fast!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 the intrigue and secrecy aspect of Frontier is vastly superior to its macross predecessors. and for that, i'm enjoying it thoroughly. cathy and ozma is giving me a "misato-kaji" vibe of officers trying to get at the bottom of the conspiracy. even ozma isn't sure who to trust yet, since he warned Alto against giving too much information to Bilrer. I just hope we don't get another IdeON/EvangeliON/TominiON ending... (Macross FrontiON?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Duke Togo, where...did you get....that icon?! I thought this was a pretty good episode, one of the better ones even. We're finally getting some plot, and it really wasn't much of a clip show. besides, the song medley made even that work well. Sheryl's getting more aggressive with Alto in front of Ranka, but fortunately Ranka's pushing back. It's interesting to see just how used Sheryl was. Looks like Galaxy's pulling the strings. The only thing that gets me, and pardon if this was brought up as I haven't read every page, is that she doesn't question Grace. Namely, why she's still alive and on Frontier. Maybe I missed something, but Sheryl herself narrowly escaped Gallia IV's fate, doesn't she wonder how Grace got off? Could it be common on Galaxy for people to have multiple bodies and this is no big deal to her? You'd think, "how did you get here?" would be the first thing on her mind. Though Sheryl's disignation seems to imply that there are many girls like her or even multiple Sheryls throughout the different fleets (they can't all be in contact with one another). Oh, and while this was brought up a few episodes ago, am I the only one amazed that there were new Macross-class ships built after the launch of the Megaroad-01? To think copies were being built upwards of 39 years later... heck of a class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanpang Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 All we see is Klan Klan visiting Mikhail, I hope for Luca's sake, Nanase also visted him (unless he is not injured in the last attack ?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 The only thing that gets me, and pardon if this was brought up as I haven't read every page, is that she doesn't question Grace. Namely, why she's still alive and on Frontier. Maybe I missed something, but Sheryl herself narrowly escaped Gallia IV's fate, doesn't she wonder how Grace got off? Could it be common on Galaxy for people to have multiple bodies and this is no big deal to her? You'd think, "how did you get here?" would be the first thing on her mind. Though Sheryl's disignation seems to imply that there are many girls like her or even multiple Sheryls throughout the different fleets (they can't all be in contact with one another). Grace said Brera saved her. As for Sheryl not questioning Grace is for the simple reason that she is attached to Grace and is very glad that she is alive. Grace is perhaps her only friend in Galaxy. But Sheryl doesn't know Grace-tachi's true intentions. Oh, and while this was brought up a few episodes ago, am I the only one amazed that there were new Macross-class ships built after the launch of the Megaroad-01? To think copies were being built upwards of 39 years later... heck of a class. Originally the Megaroad 1 was built as the SDF-2. Supposedly a bigger version of the Macross. But the war delayed it's construction. When Global had unveiled his colonization plan he had the SDF-2 rebuilt as a even bigger colony ship. So UN Spacy did have the capacity to build SDFs. Only the Global is a mass production version with the transformation feature. These SDF Macross class ships became the precurssor to the New Macross Class. Though we don't have the specs yet if the Global is 1200 meters like the Macross or 1620 meters like the SDF-2 was supposed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Grace said Brera saved her. In the Kei sub she doesn't explicitly state this, although it can be inferred that it's the reason that she supplied based on the conversation (she says that Brera was on Gallia 4, iirc). I'm not sure if other fansubs have been more explicit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 (edited) In the Kei sub she doesn't explicitly state this, although it can be inferred that it's the reason that she supplied based on the conversation (she says that Brera was on Gallia 4, iirc). I'm not sure if other fansubs have been more explicit. yup, we never heard that particular conversation where grace explained how she was rescued from galia 4. however, it's implied from their conversation where sheryl said something like, "thank god there was a galaxy survivor there, otherwise we would never see each other again" (paraphrasing, seen the ep only once). the galaxy survivor is, i presume, brera. and we all know he'll back up any story grace comes up with. so far, sheryl has absolutely no reason to expect grace. and i'm sure at she'll react negatively to, and disbelieve, any statement that michael will make about the poison thingy. at first. Edited July 21, 2008 by dreamweaver13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 (edited) In the Kei sub she doesn't explicitly state this, although it can be inferred that it's the reason that she supplied based on the conversation (she says that Brera was on Gallia 4, iirc). I'm not sure if other fansubs have been more explicit. Actually Sheryl said that she should thank the Galaxy pilot, Brera, because Grace is with her now. Grace made that cover story with supposed rumor that there was Galaxy survivors on Galia 4. Unfortunately Grace has Leon in her pocket as any official questions would be moot. If it were Max or any of his captains and officers they'd question this fishy story. Cathy and Ozma are beginning to question Leon's loyalty. Leon is playing fast and loose with NUNS, SMS (Bilrer) and Galaxy. He'll get burned eventually. One way to blow the whistle is Ohgathwai and a portion of the 33rd Marines surviving, confirming there was no Galaxy survivor on Galia 4. Also if Temzin survived and blabed about Grace. Edited July 21, 2008 by RedWolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 One way to blow the whistle is Ohgathwai and a portion of the 33rd Marines surviving, confirming there was no Galaxy survivor on Galia 4. Uh... Any talk about the Zentraedi commander surviving was merely fan speculation based on the fact that he wasn't shown explicitly dying and a lot of people liked the idea of him surviving. The only "evidence" of him surviving is the fact that it seems as if only half of his ship was at the base in episode 12 (that particular model of command ship has a detachable section), and he wasn't explicitly shown dying. And Temjin didn't fly far enough to have gotten out of the blast radius (which took a quarter of the planet with it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 (edited) Ah, so it was something I missed. I must've been more tired than I thought when I watched that episode. Though it does reek of "convenience". Thanks. Originally the Megaroad 1 was built as the SDF-2. Supposedly a bigger version of the Macross. But the war delayed it's construction. When Global had unveiled his colonization plan he had the SDF-2 rebuilt as a even bigger colony ship. So UN Spacy did have the capacity to build SDFs. Only the Global is a mass production version with the transformation feature. These SDF Macross class ships became the precurssor to the New Macross Class. Though we don't have the specs yet if the Global is 1200 meters like the Macross or 1620 meters like the SDF-2 was supposed to be. Trust me, I know well about the Megaroad/Megalord. It doesn't surprise me that the UN Spacy would be able to produce MP Macross' either. What does surprise me was that they're apparently still in use, and postdate the Megaroad-01. All the little recaps about the colonization process list MR-01 as the forebearer. It just strikes me as odd that a mass production version wouldn't be based on the Megaroad, or the New Macross-class in M7. it would be like them building new B-17s for the air force (which would be awesome, however unlikely). I'm basing it off the M7 recap, but it seems to imply there were only two classes of colony ship, the original Megaroad class, and it successor, the New Macross class. This ship looks like the original Macross, neither MR nor NM. Unless you mean the Battle 7 was different from the New Macross class. Maybe Macross classes were cheaper to build and used for smaller expeditions. 117 was a research mission after all. It just seems strange that such an antiquated design is still in use, given the evolution of the colony ships as detailed at the start of M7, and Frontiers even more modern style (Macross Quarter). looks like a Compendium visit is in order. Edited July 21, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Ah, so it was something I missed. I must've been more tired than I thought when I watched that episode. Though it does reek of "convenience". Thanks. It's a line that's very easy to miss. I didn't even realize who Grace was talking about the first time I saw the line. Then everything clicked into place and I backed up to doublecheck what she'd just said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Trust me, I know well about the Megaroad/Megalord. It doesn't surprise me that the UN Spacy would be able to produce MP Macross' either. What does surprise me was that they're apparently still in use, and postdate the Megaroad-01. All the little recaps about the colonization process list MR-01 as the forebearer. It just strikes me as odd that a mass production version wouldn't be based on the Megaroad, or the New Macross-class in M7. it would be like them building new B-17s for the air force (which would be awesome, however unlikely). I'm basing it off the M7 recap, but it seems to imply there were only two classes of colony ship, the original Megaroad class, and it successor, the New Macross class. This ship looks like the original Macross, neither MR nor NM. Unless you mean the Battle 7 was different from the New Macross class. Maybe Macross classes were cheaper to build and used for smaller expeditions. 117 was a research mission after all. It just seems strange that such an antiquated design is still in use, given the evolution of the colony ships as detailed at the start of M7, and Frontiers even more modern style (Macross Quarter). looks like a Compendium visit is in order. Well even depending on the size I think a SDF is still more expensive than a NMC battle carrier. The whole point of a gunship I believe is for easy replacement. Where if a SDF's main gun is deatroyed it'll have to go for refit. Besides if ain't broke why scrap it? That there is Zentradi philosophy on equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 (edited) Yeah, born out of a culture that didn't know how to repair anything. I find it amusing this discussion was also started in the episode 13 thread at about the same time. Checking the compendium, what we get is this: 2012-2030? - Megaroad class, 13 ships in total. Names unknown, but probably all called Megaroad. 02 and 03 are launched in 2014, with one or two launched every following year. The Global is no Megaroad. 2030-present - New Macross class, 13 built so far. All named Macross plus a number (i.e. Macross 7). Macross 5 was apparently Zentran built, so it was a variation. That's it. The only Macross class listed are the SDF-01, and SDF-02 which was modified during construction into the new, larger Megaroad class. Checking Frontiers own recap, it makes it appear as if several fleets were launched in 2012, including Frontier!!! They list Megaroads and Macross', all numbered, with Megaroads designated SDFs, except for Frontier. The Macross' are labeled as New Macross class though. It's interesting to think that Frontier and her Quarter have been to service for 47 years. Amusingly, she's listed on closeup as a "New Macross" class, as is Galaxy. So the only thing i can think of is the the date merely is the start date, not the launch date for everything leaving it. If it were, Frontier was built 18 years before the class was introduced. If true, someone messed up horribly. The problem though is that it lists Eden discovered in 2012, and only after it shows fleets launched from it does the time pick up, suggesting that those earth vessels were in fact launched in 2012, as the Earth year advances with Edens. This would be either a huge mistake, or a retconning. That, or maybe they retrofitted all Macross class ships, except the Global, with New Macross classes as they came available. Though doing such in deep space... The only thing I can think of is the the Global was built either alongside or prior to the Megaroad class, hence why it's referred to as first gen, and was used for smaller expeditions, and non-colonizing missions, hence it's non-mention in 7 or the opening recap. The class just has amazing longevity, as I just can't see why they'd continue an old model unless it lent itself better to such services. The ship's old, damn old. The Galaxy originated on Eden. Interestingly, it's designated NMCV(?) 21, meaning it was launched before Frontier (NMCV 25), yet the diagram says otherwise. The only thing that makes sense is if they merely showed all fleets launched from Earth, regardless of when, and only went realtime when Eden entered the picture. Either way, it's sort of retarded. I think I just came upon a new bug for that thread. I think they figured it was onscreen so briefly that no one would catch it. Edited July 21, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 The whole 2012 thing was to show when the colonization started. Just to give a rough idea. Megaroad 13 is the only Megaroad we see on screen beside Megaroad 1 and the Megaroad where the Jenius family used to live in M3. Macross 7 is the 37th immigration fleet. Before Macross 7 there were 7 NMC fleets. Presumably there were 30 Megaroad fleets before. Macross Frontier is the 25th NMC immigration fleet and Macross Galaxy 21st NMC immigration fleet. But there is an evidence of multiple city fleets. Like Macross 1 having 4 NMC vessels and Macross 5 having 3 NMC vessels. Macross 17 in Frontier's prelude appears to have 2 parallel fleets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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