Newbie Questions on Macross

[Clay Cliff]

Couldn't find this anywhere: The VF-1's RöV-20 laser caliber... How much is it? Maybe not the correct forum, excuse me... Best regards.

[azrael]

Couldn't find this anywhere: The VF-1's RöV-20 laser caliber... How much is it? Maybe not the correct forum, excuse me... Best regards.

It's never been mentioned. Not on any official publication to date. In fact, the VF-25/VF-27 entries are the first ones to actually mention the caliber of the head lasers.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Okay. I know the seats in some valks rotate in battroid, but where do the screens come out from? Are they in the heatshield covers, or do the sides of the cockpit have sliding video panels?

[Clay Cliff]

It's never been mentioned. Not on any official publication to date. In fact, the VF-25/VF-27 entries are the first ones to actually mention the caliber of the head lasers.

So that's it... Well, as the VF-25's RöV-25 are 25 mm guns, let's assume that RöV-20 are 20 mm guns... I'll use that data for an in-project 1/48 VF-1A.

[azrael]

So that's it... Well, as the VF-25's RöV-25 are 25 mm guns, let's assume that RöV-20 are 20 mm guns... I'll use that data for an in-project 1/48 VF-1A.

It's your fan-fic so you can make it whatever you want.

Okay. I know the seats in some valks rotate in battroid, but where do the screens come out from? Are they in the heatshield covers, or do the sides of the cockpit have sliding video panels?

It depends on the VF. Most are in the cockpit and some of the monitors (like the forward monitor) slide into place. The VF-0's heat shield cover is the only one that seems to be a large monitor or it's just a projected image, but it's the only one where the heat shield becomes the monitor.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

It depends on the VF. Most are in the cockpit and some of the monitors (like the forward monitor) slide into place. The VF-0's heat shield cover is the only one that seems to be a large monitor or it's just a projected image, but it's the only one where the heat shield becomes the monitor.

I was just curious. IIRC in the TIA Macross 7 book, the line art for the cockpit of a VF-11 in Battroid, looked like a telescoping display, and video panels coming up from the sides. Also in the YF-19, since the seat rotates forward, I would have assumed the display is projected on the canopy behinde the pilot.Thanks azrael.

Edited February 8, 2009 by SkullLeaderVF-X

[Letigre]

The VF-2SS was another with a telescoping display. The Metal Siren did something weird: the seat would rotate back, and then slide backward/upward through a short passage to a second canopy.

[Zinjo]

It depends on the VF. Most are in the cockpit and some of the monitors (like the forward monitor) slide into place. The VF-0's heat shield cover is the only one that seems to be a large monitor or it's just a projected image, but it's the only one where the heat shield becomes the monitor.

The VF-0 was also a test bed for bleeding edge technologies for a VF. Probably SK wanted to give a precursor to the projected displays seen in the Block 6 VF-1's we were shown in DYRL and the YF-19 of Plus.

The VF-2SS was another with a telescoping display. The Metal Siren did something weird: the seat would rotate back, and then slide backward/upward through a short passage to a second canopy.

Blah! The 'Meh'tal Siren has to be one of the worst variable fighter designs I've ever seen! The weapons concepts introduced by it were pretty cool, but what a fugly design.

At least the VF-2 was a hybrid of the VF-1 and the VF-4 designs that turned out to look quite cool.

Edited February 8, 2009 by Zinjo

[Mr March]

I think the VF-11 Battroid cockpit monitors were simply multi-paneled. I suppose the VF-11 monitors could be telescoping, but there doesn't appear to be any need for them to have such a feature. Most likely they operate in the same manner as the VF-1 "Block 6" monitors, since both Battroid cockpits have a very similar design.

Ditto on the Metal Siren ugly, Zinknowshisstuff. The VF-2SS was already an aerodynamic step backward, but the Metal Siren is a flying brick in comparison. Though I think the SV-51 beats the Metal Siren for downright fugly Battroid. But the Metal Siren picks up more ugly points for the virtue of worst foot design among all the Macross valkyries, including the VA-3 Invader

However, the cockpit transformation is kinda unique for Macross. Here's a pic:

[azrael]

Actually, now that I think about it, the VF-22 also had it's heat shield become the forward display.

For the most part, the displays don't really move into position since the seat rotates. The seat rotates into position and the monitors are already there. Now the forward monitor may need to move out of the way to let the pilot rotate in, but for the most part, the monitors don't really move.

[Ginrai]

Ditto on the Metal Siren ugly, Zinknowshisstuff. The VF-2SS was already an aerodynamic step backward, but the Metal Siren is a flying brick in comparison.

Uhm, isn't the VF-2SS a dedicated space fighter? Who cares if it's aerodynamic if it's only used in space?

[Letigre]

I'll agree on the ass-backwardness that is the Metal Siren..it just seemed like an waste of space to handle it in that fashion. But I really found the Fighter and Gerwalk modes even less pretty than the Battroid - Nevermind that aces like Sylvie were pushing for it to become THE U.N.Spacy fighter.

But the SV-51 Battroid, fugliest? Nope March, I'll respectfully disagree. It's one of my favorites, and I know there is no account for taste on my part..but the worst? Are we forgetting things like the (M3) VF-14 exist?

Edited February 8, 2009 by Letigre

[VF5SS]

Uhm, isn't the VF-2SS a dedicated space fighter? Who cares if it's aerodynamic if it's only used in space?

That's a bloody lie. Koichi Ohata made the thing way more aerodynamic than the VF-2JA, which is supposed to be the atmospheric fighter.

[anime52k8]

But the SV-51 Battroid, fugliest? Nope March, I'll respectfully disagree. It's one of my favorites, and I know there is no account for taste on my part..but the worst? Are we forgetting things like the (M3) VF-14 exist?

the M3 VF-14 is awesome. way better looking than anything in MacII. the SV-51 is ugly, but ugly in a cool way. It's got that industrial, form-over-function function-over-form kind of ugly that makes most Russian fighters cool.

Edited February 10, 2009 by anime52k8

[Letigre]

I hope you mean function-over-form.. But yeah, something about that folded-up-plane, spindlely-limb ugly grabs me. You know, it probably doesn't help that my aesthetics for mecha is probably well rooted in a long fan-hood of Battletech.

[Mr March]

What's the point of wings, intakes, stabilizers, slats and ailerons on a dedicated space fighter, I wonder?

Regarding the SV-51, there's cool fugly and then there is just plain fugly. The SV-51 is cool fugly; the VA-3 Invader is just plain fugly. The SV-51 looks menacing and dangerous in Battroid form; almost disturbing in an insect-like fashion. The Battroid mode of the VA-3 Invader looks like a cosmic joke; as if some engineer had the idea of building a variable fighter for their infant named Jeb.

There's also over-designed and just plain poorly designed. The VF-2SS is a good example of an over-designed craft drawn with too many faux-futuristic design choices to make it look far more advanced than it actually is. However, the VF-2SS is aesthetically pleasing because it's style is a uniform motif. Each individual part on the VF-2SS is drawn in the same style and these parts beautifully merge with each other to create something that at least looks good as a whole. It doesn't necessarily have to look aerodynamically sound (it should, "as a Macross Valkyrie", but it's not) just as long as it obeys the rule of cool!

In contrast, the design of the VA-1SS Metal Siren is all over the place, a good example of poor design. It's not cube-like robotic; it's not round-like robotic; it's not armor-like robotic; it's not spike-like robotic. It's this horrible kit bash of parts assembled from several incompatible styles. It looks like someone took Macross/Gundam/Patlabor/Five Star Stories, mashed all the parts together and called it the Metal Siren. Worst still, it's not even cool fugly. IMO, the thing is an absolute mess.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Mr March

[Sulendil Ang]

You guys are compaining how ugly the VF in Macross II is, but seems to ignore the fact the 'king' of ugly VF is here in the official timeline.

[Gubaba]

You guys are compaining how ugly the VF in Macross II is, but seems to ignore the fact the 'king' of ugly VF is here in the official timeline.

"Whoa, is that a MAXL...? Pretty hot!"

[RedWolf]

"Whoa, is that a MAXL...? Pretty hot!"

Ryuusei is that you?

[Mr March]

You guys are compaining how ugly the VF in Macross II is, but seems to ignore the fact the 'king' of ugly VF is here in the official timeline.

The problem with the VF-11MAXL Custom has never been that it was "ugly"; the problem is that it's pretty to the point of inducing sickness.

[Master Dex]

Since the VF-11MAXL has been brought up, this seems like an appropriate time for me to ask a question about it. It is the most original of the Sound Force Valkyries, and I don't remember where I saw this but I remember once reading that the MAXL was supposed to be some sort of bridging the gap design between the VF-11 and the YF-21 or something like that (which makes some sort of sense if you compare the designs, the overall VF-11 look but the legs and head look very YF-21-ish). So my question is, is the MAXL supposed to be anything like that because I can't find anything saying that anymore, or was it only just ever Mylene's sound force Valkyrie designed for her use.

It is always possible whatever I had read before was something fan made but I don't know so I just want to find out if that is true.

[azrael]

It is always possible whatever I had read before was something fan made

I'm going with this one.

There's also a slight issue. There's the VF-11MAXL and the VF-11MAXL Custom (Mylene's). Now the VF-11MAXL probably is similar to what was done to the F-16XL, an Enhanced Tactical Fighter (ETF). They took the VF-11, gave it new engines and then adapted the frame to withstand the new amount of stress and a delta-wing design.

[Zinjo]

The VF-2SS was a Space Superiority fighter. It was not (AFAIK) a dedicated space fighter like the 'Meh'tal Siren was. It's like how the VF-19F&S was optimized for space flight, but had atmospheric capability.

The VF-2JA was optimized for atmospheric flight as it had an additional control surface that dropped from the underside to allow it to fly at odd angles (granted it was a novice aerodynamic design).

I can't argue the fugly battroid designs already suggested, but then there are the designs where SK designed the fighter first and the battroid was an after thought. The VF-4 and VF-9 are both good examples.

[Master Dex]

I'm going with this one.

There's also a slight issue. There's the VF-11MAXL and the VF-11MAXL Custom (Mylene's). Now the VF-11MAXL probably is similar to what was done to the F-16XL, an Enhanced Tactical Fighter (ETF). They took the VF-11, gave it new engines and then adapted the frame to withstand the new amount of stress and a delta-wing design.

I had a feeling it was probably something made up... but on that note what is the difference between the MAXL and the MAXL custom? Or is that not known?

[VF-25 Messiah]

I had a feeling it was probably something made up... but on that note what is the difference between the MAXL and the MAXL custom? Or is that not known?

Wouldn't the non custom be what the Jamming Birds were given?

EDIT: No wait, seems that's the VF-11D... so I echo the question, what is a non custom MAXL?

Edited February 9, 2009 by VF-25 Messiah

[Master Dex]

Wouldn't the noncustoms be what the Jamming Birds were given?

Those were just VF-11D's with specialized sound boosters and two seater cockpits with a special heat shield cover to protect the singers.

EDIT: Ah you figured it out before I finished posting, oh well, yes, the MAXL question stands.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Master Dex

[sketchley]

Those were just VF-11D's with specialized sound boosters and two seater cockpits with a special heat shield cover to protect the singers.

EDIT: Ah you figured it out before I finished posting, oh well, yes, the MAXL question stands.

The Jamming Birds are a bit more than that - they are VF-11D Customs. In this case, it's a lot clearer what the differences are:

# VF-11D: Two-seater version.

# VF-11D Custom: Custom two-seater version manufactured by Shinsei Industry and the Macross 7 Project M Special Technologies Group in one lot of approximately 20 craft with enlarged canard wing, enhanced engines, VF-19's vernier thrusters, and space/atmospheric sound booster FAST Pack. Deployed in Jamming Bird force.

Regarding the MAXL question:

# VF-11MAXL: Version with FF-2099A engines identical to the VF-16's, strengthened overall structure to tolerate the engines' thrust, and redesigned modified delta wing for increased fuselage strength and aerodynamic characteristics. A limited number of these special reserve fighters exists, all manufactured to order by the pilots.

# VF-11MAXL Custom: Custom version manufactured by Shinnakasu Heavy Industry and the Macross 7 Special Technologies Group with internal sound system, speaker launcher pod, and FF-2099A engines similar to the VF-16's.

All info (as well as linkies) found here: http://macross.anime.net/wiki/VF-11

[Kelsain]

Someone here made a lineart composite VF11-MAXL a few years ago. He picked a head from a different Kawamori design and colored whole thing blue. I might still have it on my hard drive at home. I can't for the life of me remeber who posted it, though.

[Mr March]

I believe that customized VF-11 was done by Grebo Guru. It's posted in the fan art section somewhere.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Mr March

[Kelsain]

I believe that customized VF-11 was done by Grebo Guru. It's posted in the fan art section somewhere.

Ah yes, that was it! I'll have to label those files, then. We haven't heard from him in a while. I thought it was rather well put together.

To satiate Master Dex's curiosity, here's what Grebo Guru came up with:

Edited February 10, 2009 by Kelsain

[Gubaba]

...oh well, yes, the MAXL question stands.

According to Macross Chronicle, the non-custom MAXL looks like a big question mark.

Now, the 20th Anniversary DVD claims to show a MAXL, but I think everyone here at the time decided it was just a normal VF-11...

[knoted]

Hi I'm new here

Although I watched the Robotech tv series when I was a kid back in 1986, it was only recently I got to see Macross DYRL.

My question is about Roy's Valkerie, when he died in DYRL.

So, the Zentraedi dude drops down in his mobile battle suit and kicks the VF's head to pulp : Ok, from that height, I can understand that.

Minutes later the Zentraedi's exited his battle suit and basically punches right through the VF's chest plating, then rips it off

Are the VF's that weak ? If we were to compare it to human sizes, it would mean a strong man would be able to punch through an equally sized VF

even more easy, than through a tin can !? I mean...respectively, the VF's chest would be weaker than the backside of my Dell laptop it's screen panel.

I'm not sure, it seems as such a plothole/discrepancy, when you see Max ripping through a Zentraedi's jugular right through it's battle pod, in an earlier scene ; that would imply that the VF's outer shell is stronger....

Contradiction maybe ?

Edited February 10, 2009 by knoted

[briscojr84]

Hi I'm new here

Although I watched the Robotech tv series when I was a kid back in 1986, it was only recently I got to see Macross DYRL.

My question is about Roy's Valkerie, when he died in DYRL.

So, the Zentraedi dude drops down in his mobile battle suit and kicks the VF's head to pulp : Ok, from that height, I can understand that.

Minutes later the Zentraedi's exited his battle suit and basically punches right through the VF's chest plating, then rips it off

Are the VF's that weak ? If we were to compare it to human sizes, it would mean a strong man would be able to punch through an equally sized VF

even more easy, than through a tin can !? I mean...respectively, the VF's chest would be weaker than the backside of my Dell laptop it's screen panel.

I'm not sure, it seems as such a plothole/discrepancy, when you see Max ripping through a Zentraedi's jugular right through it's battle pod, in an earlier scene ; that would imply that the VF's outer shell is stronger....

Contradiction maybe ?

Probably a little bit of anime magic vs. coolness factor vs. plot hole, considering the Zentraedi were bred to be warriors I'd say that they would be stronger than a normal human that has been macronized.

[Morpheus]

I think dedicated space valk is the VF-XX from Macross II with its rocket like design. Too bad it doesn't have an official gerwalk mode.

[MilSpex]

the official line is that SDF:M is cannon, and DYRL a movie in universe as well as in the real world. the Designs from DYRL (all the VF's and the SDF-1) are all cannon, but are actually later updates (the VF's in DYRL are block 6's , the VF's in SDF:M are block 1's, and the SDF-1 was rebuilt after kamjin crashed into it hence the new color/details/ARMD arms) that were introduced after the 2012.

So I`m collecting movie props instead of SWI combat artefacts?