Seto Kaiba Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Well... I'm contemplating violence... Exactly as predicted, Macross Chronicle totally phoned it in with the VF-2SS Valkyrie II mecha sheet. I didn't even have to wait for my copy to arrive to start spotting errors... the preview images on the official website were enough to reveal that for the second time in a row, Chronicle's writers couldn't even get the year right. Even more embarrassing, they can't seem to even stick to one incorrect year... the Mardook People article gave the year as 2091, and the VF-2SS article as 2090... I'm bracing myself for a real waste of my time and money... betting they didn't include anything about its predecessors or its development history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Well... I'm contemplating violence... Exactly as predicted, Macross Chronicle totally phoned it in with the VF-2SS Valkyrie II mecha sheet. I didn't even have to wait for my copy to arrive to start spotting errors... the preview images on the official website were enough to reveal that for the second time in a row, Chronicle's writers couldn't even get the year right. Even more embarrassing, they can't seem to even stick to one incorrect year... the Mardook People article gave the year as 2091, and the VF-2SS article as 2090... I'm bracing myself for a real waste of my time and money... betting they didn't include anything about its predecessors or its development history. I haven't received my copy yet (stupid Golden Week...making my shipments late... ), but is it possible that 2090 is the rollout year for the VF-2SS...? And if the year IS a mistake, it's not the first one. Does EX-gear mean "Extended Gear" or "Extender Gear"? They've shown both. As for predecessors or development history, why are you expecting information from this page that hasn't been included for ANY mecha in Chronicle? Yes, they show some lineart of predecessors (if it exists...I was really hoping to see what the original VF-11 MAXL looked like, but 'twas not to be), but development history...? I haven't seen ANY of that ANYWHERE in the Mecha Sheets (Technology Sheets are a different story). And it seems unfair to lambast the editors for not including the stuff you want to see about Macross II, when so far, there's been no information at all from, say, the SDFM novels and short stories, various staff interviews in magazines, and things of that nature. It's trying to be a BASIC encyclopedia of Macross, not "The Hidden Secrets of the Macross Universe." Hell, we don't even know yet if Macross II will covered in the History Sheets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcroRay Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I think its wonderfully positive that MacII is being included at all, given the push to seemingly disown it there for some time, and the lack of respect it seemed to be attracting from the Macross franchise's core creators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) The Macross Chronicle doesn't appear to be expounding upon information previously available in any amount of lengthy detail. In many cases, we are getting the same old statistics that we've read on the Macross Compendium for years. When new, never-before-seen trivia does appear in the Macross Chronicle, it's often no more than two or three new facts in among a text description or the Chronicle will add a few basic statistics that weren't known before. I was really hoping that Kawamori and Co. would use the Chronicle as an opportunity to expand on some of the under-developed valkyries. Perhaps the valkyries that were not animated wouldn't see much action, but the VF-5000 Star Mirage from Macross Dynamite 7 was a prime candidate for much broader statistics. The Chronicle featured absolutely nothing new for the VF-5000. I'm not going to make any excuses for the Chronicle writers, but I have to mimic Gubaba's point that we cannot expect much considering what's been published in the first 20 issues. Macross Frontier is by far the recipient of the most new, revelatory information published in the Macross Chronicle. The reason for that is obvious, I'm sure. Overall, I'm happy with the Macross Chronicle, but I will admit that they could have done a bit more. Still, when you get fleet counts for the Macross 7 and Varauta fleets, it's hard to bitch about a lack of information. That's something I never expected. I suppose given it's black sheep status, we can be thankful the Macross Chronicle is even covering Macross II at all. The Chronicle has provided a few nuggets of new information for Macross II mecha, such as the missile count of the Gigamesh suits. That's more interesting information than anything done to some of the other major mecha, like the VF-5000. Edited April 30, 2009 by Mr March Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) I haven't received my copy yet (stupid Golden Week...making my shipments late... ), but is it possible that 2090 is the rollout year for the VF-2SS...? Nope... the VF-2SS was rolled out in 2081 AD. And it seems unfair to lambast the editors for not including the stuff you want to see about Macross II, when so far, there's been no information at all from, say, the SDFM novels and short stories, various staff interviews in magazines, and things of that nature. It's trying to be a BASIC encyclopedia of Macross, not "The Hidden Secrets of the Macross Universe. So, what you're saying is that it's entirely unfair of me to expect this "basic encyclopedia of Macross" to include basic information from the show's creators? It's not a question of esoterica like novelizations and side-stories... this was a major animated production done for the 10th Anniversary. It's not like the information they're omitting is deep, dark, hidden secret intelligence either... most of it is available in multiple official artbooks, but it's still being omitted. It's like if they did a SDF-1 Macross mechanics sheet, but left out everything about the ship's origins. What value does a basic encyclopedia have if it doesn't include basic, readily available information? Would you leap to the defense of Webster's if they released a dictionary that didn't cover any words starting with F? Errors I can forgive... hell, I wouldn't mind half as much if they were at least consistent with their screwups. The Macross Chronicle doesn't appear to be expounding upon information previously available in any amount of lengthy detail. In many cases, we are getting the same old statistics that we've read on the Macross Compendium for years. When new, never-before-seen trivia does appear in the Macross Chronicle, it's often no more than two or three new facts in among a text description or the Chronicle will add a few basic statistics that weren't known before. That's just the thing... I'm not expecting new information from Chronicle. All I was expecting was a decent condensation of the various official artbooks with a couple pretty pictures by Tenjin Hidetaka to sweeten the deal... and even with my expectations THAT low, I'm still getting disappointed. Edited April 30, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I think this is all a problem with cataloging the Macross franchise so long after the fact. Once the project is over, everyone disbands and forgets most of the past. Now 15 years later, no one is going to remember much of anything, especially which fan magazines and design bibles actually covered Macross II when a) there was damn few publications that covered the series, b) there wasn't much information to begin with and c) even the original Macross II sources appear to state differently when covering the same material. If something like the Chronicle or a series guide had been done back in 1992, perhaps all the trivia and statistics could have been collated into a definitive guide that made sense. We can't really blame the Chronicle writers (most of whom were probably barely in school at the time Macross II was released) for not having an extensive, doctorate-level immersion in the franchise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Nope... the VF-2SS was rolled out in 2081 AD. Ah well...I tried. So, what you're saying is that it's entirely unfair of me to expect this "basic encyclopedia of Macross" to include basic information from the show's creators? It's not a question of esoterica like novelizations and side-stories... this was a major animated production done for the 10th Anniversary. It's not like the information they're omitting is deep, dark, hidden secret intelligence either... most of it is available in multiple official artbooks, but it's still being omitted. It's like if they did a SDF-1 Macross mechanics sheet, but left out everything about the ship's origins. What value does a basic encyclopedia have if it doesn't include basic, readily available information? Would you leap to the defense of Webster's if they released a dictionary that didn't cover any words starting with F? Again, I think it's unfair to compare the Valkyrie II to the Macross. But let's look at what they DID give us about the ship's origins: a small paragraph in one of the Extra Reports. That's it. A project that INCLUDES Macross II (no, no...let's use a different example...hmm...major animated production...anniversary release...okay, got it.) A project that INCLUDES Macross Dynamite 7 will of necessity not have as much info as one DEVOTED to Macross Dynamite 7. While there may be an interview with Tetsuro Amino where he gave a detailed description of life cycle of the Space Whales, or an artbook that details all the little differences between the VF-19P and and the VF-19A, or (as March said) more information on the VF-5000, all that information is not necessarily going to make its way into the Chronicle. Because while Macross Dynamite 7 is indeed a major animated production, produced for the 15th Anniversary, it's just not as popular as the original, or as Macross Frontier. Or Plus. Or 7. Or DYRL. Although Chronicle is a vast project, they still have limited space (they're gonna have to start doubling up the Song Sheets soon if they want to include ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING, for example). And what's popular will always get more coverage than what's not. All that said, there's always the possibility of more pages devoted to whatever you want to see. March wanted more info of the VF-5000...well, there may be a "B" page down the line. Who would have thought we've have FIVE SHEETS devoted to the VF-1J (much to Azrael's chagrin), with the ever-present possibility of more? The magazine hasn't even covered half of its run yet...there could always be more. Anyway, I can understand the frustration..I was hoping the Timeline Sheets would bring together EVERYTHING...animation, novels, drama albums...but they don't. They cover the animation only. And I already know most of what they cover. Which brings me to something in your post that I find puzzling...and I'm probably misreading you here, so please don't jump all over me if I am...but, you say you're not looking for "new" or "hidden" information, but stuff that is available in the offficial books. And you have all the Macross II books, correct? So you're upset because they omitted information that you already have? Whatever for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) I agree it's frustrating and that's probably something we've all had to deal with. The Chronicle has largely been worthwhile, but in some respects it's let us down or actually made MORE work for us (damn them and their contradictory Factory Satellite sizes!). But that's life. The Macross Chronicle, as good as it could ever be, can't be everything to every fan. Especially those fans, like ourselves, with an unhealthy, geek-extreme knowledge of all things Macross Edited April 30, 2009 by Mr March Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I agree it's frustrating and that's probably something we've all had to deal with. The Chronicle has largely been worthwhile, but in some respects it's let us down or actually made MORE work for us (damn them and their contradictory Factory Satellite sizes!). But that's life. The Macross Chronicle, as good as it could ever be, can't be everything to every fan. Especially those fans, like ourselves, with an unhealthy, geek-extreme knowledge of all things Macross Exactly. I have a friend named Miho. She got into anime when she was in high school, when one of her friends showed her Macross Plus (which had just come out in Japan). She never watched the original SDFM, DYRL, or 7. Instead, she just started watching anything that Yoko Kanno scored (except Turn A Gundam...she never saw that one). When Frontier was about to begin, she wanted to watch it (because of Yoko Kanno's involvement), but was worried that the fact that she hadn't seen any other Macross series might hinder her enjoyment of the show. Since she knew I was a fan, she asked me about it, and I ended up loaning her all of my Macross DVDs. She found that she really liked SDFM, DYRL, and Zero, but she couldn't make it through 7, and wasn't thrilled with II. Frontier started, she watched the series, loved it, and now considers herself a Macross fan. I loaned her some of my books, but she really doesn't have the time or the inclination to build a full Macross library from scratch, especially since some of the sought-after books are difficult to find, and expensive. I like to think the she is the ideal audience for Macross Chronicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) We can't really blame the Chronicle writers (most of whom were probably barely in school at the time Macross II was released) for not having an extensive, doctorate-level immersion in the franchise Of course not... but we can at least expect them to do a halfway competent job condensing the materials available to them... and the Macross II mecha aren't even getting that much. Again, I think it's unfair to compare the Valkyrie II to the Macross. But let's look at what they DID give us about the ship's origins: a small paragraph in one of the Extra Reports. That's it. Actually, I think it's quite fair. Both were prominently featured in their respective titles, yet the Valkyrie II's mechanics sheet looks to be every bit as lacking in basic information as the other Macross II mecha sheets. I'm probably misreading you here, so please don't jump all over me if I am...but, you say you're not looking for "new" or "hidden" information, but stuff that is available in the offficial books. And you have all the Macross II books, correct? So you're upset because they omitted information that you already have? Whatever for? Drat... now where did I put my good jumping boots... You're right, I'm not looking for new and/or hidden information. It would've been a nice bonus, the icing on the cake as it were... but I would've been quite happy with a decent condensation of the available sources. Something that would fill in the gaps for the people who don't have access to all the rare publications I do, and correct (with some authority) all of the pants-on-head imbecilic things US Renditions and company have published about it in the intervening years. After several years working closely with automakers, I've reached the point where I crave competence... simple competence... in any field from adultery to zoology... something I'm not getting from Chronicle's Macross II pages. Edited April 30, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Careful man, you're starting to sound like a Robotech fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Actually, I think it's quite fair. Both were prominently featured in their respective titles, yet the Valkyrie II's mechanics sheet looks to be every bit as lacking in basic information as the other Macross II mecha sheets. I guess we'll have to disagree on that one...I will point out, thought, that the Macross itself has been prominently featured in all 36 episodes of SDFM, DYRL, FB2012, all 6 episodes of II, the last 2 episodes of Plus, and briefly at the beginning of Zero and at the end of Frontier. It is one of the foundations for anything Macross, even giving the franchise its title. The Valkyrie II isn't nearly as important. Drat... now where did I put my good jumping boots... Crap...at least let me change out of my good clothes, first. You're right, I'm not looking for new and/or hidden information. It would've been a nice bonus, the icing on the cake as it were... but I would've been quite happy with a decent condensation of the available sources. Something that would fill in the gaps for the people who don't have access to all the rare publications I do, and correct (with some authority) all of the pants-on-head imbecilic things US Renditions and company have published about it in the intervening years. So...it's not for yourself that you find the page lacking, it's for other people who may read it? Specifically, English speaking people (since you mention U.S. Renditions; which is surprising to me. I thought you would've mentioned Palladium)...? It strikes me that anyone in the Western world who A) can get their hands on Chronicle, and B) can read the text probably has enough awareness of the series not to need as much guidance separating official stats from wrong-headed RPG stats. But I may be mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Careful man, you're starting to sound like a Robotech fan. Not at all... if I were a Robotech fan I'd be thanking Chronicle's editor for letting me lick his shoes while his staff take turns beating me over the head a masonry trowel and a steel bucket full of rancid manure. So...it's not for yourself that you find the page lacking, it's for other people who may read it? Specifically, English speaking people (since you mention U.S. Renditions; which is surprising to me. I thought you would've mentioned Palladium)...? It strikes me that anyone in the Western world who A) can get their hands on Chronicle, and B) can read the text probably has enough awareness of the series not to need as much guidance separating official stats from wrong-headed RPG stats. But I may be mistaken. Not necessarily just the english-speaking fanbase, but for the entire fanbase worldwide. Even in the western world, there are precious few fans who have access to any of the sources, so even those who can get their hands on Chronicle and actually read it would stand to learn rather a lot... the list of english-speaking people who actually have access to all the original printed works seems to number exactly two people... myself and Yoshi. A diligently assembled condensation of This is Animation Special #5 and Entertainment Bible 51 would've been a huge step in the right direction... but alas, with Chronicle paying very little attention to the details of Macross II. It's looking more and more like the task of condensing the official sources into one decently detailed collection is going to fall to me after all... As far as US Renditions goes, I have a seat reserved for them in a particularly unpleasant circle of hell, because they're the ones who did such a shoddy job with the translation, and got a lot of the timeline information wrong. Edited April 30, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Even in the western world, there are precious few fans who have access to any of the sources, so even those who can get their hands on Chronicle and actually read it would stand to learn rather a lot... the list of english-speaking people who actually have access to all the original printed works seems to number exactly two people... myself and Yoshi. A diligently assembled condensation of This is Animation Special #5 and Entertainment Bible 51 would've been a huge step in the right direction... but alas, with Chronicle paying very little attention to the details of Macross II. It's looking more and more like the task of condensing the official sources into one decently detailed collection is going to fall to me after all... I dunno, that sounds like a good project. And after you finish, you can send an email off the editorial staff of Chronicle saying, "See? THIS is how you should've done it!" As far as US Renditions goes, I have a seat reserved for them in a particularly unpleasant circle of hell, because they're the ones who did such a shoddy job with the translation, and got a lot of the timeline information wrong. PM'd you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Well like I said, after so many years, who on staff at Big West knows about the relevant reference material or even a list of what exists? Likely no one. No one who knows is even on staff anymore and those originally involved in Macross II probably don't even remember. Some fans have done years of volunteer research scouring the globe for materials and purchasing obscure publications just on the off chance that some model magazine might have an official width for some obscure ship featured for 5 seconds in episode 29 of their favorite anime series. Even I consider myself an amateur at best in regards to Macross trivia; I've not even one-hundredth the collected books and resources of most other fans. The Chronicle aside, I think I own about six Macross books and that's pretty much the totality of my official library. So the writers and researchers hired for the Macross Chronicle probably don't have the same sort of time or fan devotion to commit to the book that even an amateur like me had to commit to his fansite. More important than that, these writers are being asked to chronicle a franchise which a) was never properly chronicled in the first place, b) is an odd ball franchise to begin with that only intermittently produces product and c) is a Japanese franchise, which are known splitting desirable products into dozens of different products to increase sales when just a handful of products would have sufficed. Given the small number of errors so far appearing in the Chronicle, I'd say they are doing quite a good nitpicking job. I will be sorry if the VF-2SS Valkyrie II turns out to be disappointing. Believe me when I say many of us are hoping for the best, especially since Macross II is largely unexamined. But if it's not all that, I don't think we honestly have that much to complain about. That's how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Not at all... if I were a Robotech fan I'd be thanking Chronicle's editor for letting me lick his shoes while his staff take turns beating me over the head a masonry trowel and a steel bucket full of rancid manure. I dunno man, you're starting to froth like that 1st Border Red Devil/ Brooklyn Reg Leg guy does over Southern Cross. Gotta make like Touhou and take it easy. A diligently assembled condensation of This is Animation Special #5 and Entertainment Bible 51 would've been a huge step in the right direction... but alas, with Chronicle paying very little attention to the details of Macross II. It's looking more and more like the task of condensing the official sources into one decently detailed collection is going to fall to me after all... I know this may sound strange but maybe you should scan those books and put them out there for other people to see. I've seen a lot of translation going on 4chan's /m/ board. Even Dougram and Xabungle are getting love over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REbirth Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 As a fan, I'm just happy that they bother to cover Macross II's Valks and setting in the first place. They can stay out of the trouble and ignore them all together, given the bad rap MII got in Japan, it's the most obscure Macross out there, more or less than M0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Not at all... if I were a Robotech fan I'd be thanking Chronicle's editor for letting me lick his shoes Were getting to Basquash fetish territory here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 As a fan, I'm just happy that they bother to cover Macross II's Valks and setting in the first place. They can stay out of the trouble and ignore them all together, given the bad rap MII got in Japan, it's the most obscure Macross out there, more or less than M0. Mmm...I'd say "Macross Generation" is probably the most obscure Macross out there...but yeah, I'm pleased that Macross II is actually getting at least one fold-out mecha spread. After the previous pages, I was worried that we wouldn't even get THAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westfall Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 As a fan, I'm just happy that they bother to cover Macross II's Valks and setting in the first place. They can stay out of the trouble and ignore them all together, given the bad rap MII got in Japan, it's the most obscure Macross out there, more or less than M0. I was surprised they even included Macross II in Chronicles, since until recently Mr. Kawamori didn't even recognize it as part of the franchise or official canon (or so i was told). Don't get me wrong, i actually like Macross II, it was the first Macross i saw (on VHS tapes from UKs Kiseki Films) shortly before Macross Plus was made. I find the animation quite good (for the time it was made) although it drops down in the last 2 episodes, i love the soundtrack by Shiro Sagisu (Mr. Evangelion himself) and the chara and mecha designs, even though the VF2S is way down in my list of favorites in the Macross franchise. So any extra info they send my way is welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Macross II is still a Big West OVA production and the sequel to DYRL. It even has supplemetary games that fill in its own timeline. So it is worth including in Macross Chronicle. It would be a miracle if games like Scrambled Valkyrie and VOXP gets acknowledged. Otherwise it is just two significant divergent timelines. PC Engine games and VOXP alone have many Zentradi and Meltrandi mecha that is so obscure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Not at all... if I were a Robotech fan I'd be thanking Chronicle's editor for letting me lick his shoes while his staff take turns beating me over the head a masonry trowel and a steel bucket full of rancid manure. (...) I understand you're disappointment with Macross Chronicle. However, you've been negative about it from your very first post about it. After that, it's just been more, and more intense negativity. If you've got such a big problem with it, DON'T buy it! And live and let live. For some (especially the type that Gubaba mentioned), it may be the only Macross resource they'll ever get for the pre-2008 Macross releases. For others (like me), it's a good chance to get all the diverse Macross art collected into one book (I'd like to say handy, but at 5+ binders...). So what if there's only the odd tidbit of new information on the pages. The majority of MW aren't buying it for the text, so they won't notice what is, or is not, or is inaccurate in the text. So... let it go. Save your money, and petition for the ultimate Macross II publication. Or - accept that it is a revisioning of Macross II to better correlate it with the rest of the various Macross series. It's probably the best way to keep one's head from exploding (see Mr.March and the Factory Satellite). Or look at it as an alternative information source. Who knows, there may be some juicy new backstore embelishment to the VF-2S or something. Like, aside from the date, have you actually read the article? If I were you, I'd reserve judgement until after reading the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 For some (especially the type that Gubaba mentioned), it may be the only Macross resource they'll ever get for the pre-2008 Macross releases. For others (like me), it's a good chance to get all the diverse Macross art collected into one book (I'd like to say handy, but at 5+ binders...). So what if there's only the odd tidbit of new information on the pages. The majority of MW aren't buying it for the text, so they won't notice what is, or is not, or is inaccurate in the text. Exactly. I, for one, am happy that I don't need to dig through x-number of books to find references or attempt to read some gawd-awful handwriting. I just can search the Chronicle to find the text and be merry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcroRay Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) I'm amazed at the fanjaculations spewing about as a result of Chronicle's error in its coverage of such a small point from MacII's continuity, something that could be little more than a typo. Much as I really enjoyed MacII and am happy to see it get its due in Chronicle, I would never have thought it important enough to get as worked up about it as Mr. Seto Kaiba seems to be. It hardly warranted "Well... I'm contemplating violence..." as a preface, let alone where it seems to have gone since. Edited April 30, 2009 by AcroRay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Okay, now who is lacking perspective Seriously folk, Seto Kaiba is merely expressing his disappointment; he's not literally threatening violence. Let's take the euphemisms for what they are and drop the petty character assassinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Who's worse, the person alluding to violence, or the person pointing out that the threat of violence reflects badly on the threatener? There are infinitely better ways to express disappointed (I'm disappointed with it, I don't like it, I hate it, etc.). The "character assassination" is prefectly valid. Edited April 30, 2009 by sketchley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Okay, now who is lacking perspective Seriously folk, Seto Kaiba is merely expressing his disappointment; he's not literally threatening violence. Let's take the euphemisms for what they are and drop the petty character assassinations. Yeah. I think Seto just has a colorful way of expressing himself. But really, there is, I think, a natural sense of disappointment that comes with any publication like this, especially for the hardcore fan. When the first issue came out, I was very excited...not so much for what the issue contined, but for the limitless possibilities of where it could go, and what it would cover. Now we're (probably) almost halfway through, and a lot of what I was hoping to see hasn't been -and probably won't be- covered in the way I would like it to be. Because of the website, we've been expecting fifty issues. That seemed like a lot when the magazine began, but now it seems kind of restrictive. That said, they've given me a lot of stuff I never expected. Who would've thought they would have a full sheet devoted to the Nature Reclamation Project? Or so much about Planet Eden? Or the Mylene fashion parade (hey, I may not be thrilled about it, but I never expected it)? And yes, Seto's right. Macross II has gotten short shrift. But so has Macross 7: The Galaxy Is Calling Me. And the differences between the OVA and Movie versions of Macross Plus aren't even really being addressed. But that's to be expected. Look at it this way: Fifty Issues...Macross comprises three TV series of varying lengths, four or five (depending on if you count M7 Encore) OVA series, three theatrical films (with another on the way), and tons of games and books. Fifty issues for all of that. Evangelion, on the other hand, has a shortish TV series and two movies (not counting the new ones). And Evangelion Chronicle...? Thirty Issues. Eva Chronicle had the space to be expansive, authoritative, and to go beyond what had been previously published. Macross Chronicle doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Who's worse, the person alluding to violence, or the person pointing out that the threat of violence reflects badly on the threatener? There are infinitely better ways to express disappointed (I'm disappointed with it, I don't like it, I hate it, etc.). The "character assassination" is prefectly valid. Ah, a Tommy Yune pie-slinging repeat. These character assassinations are anything but valid and a lame attempt to remain straight faced after being called on them. This "violence" crutch has descended beyond any facade of perspective. If you really believe this "threatening language", then file a police report. And after you're done, I've got some beachfront property to sell you. Yeah. I think Seto just has a colorful way of expressing himself. Hehehe, I would think so. But try explaining that to this audience Just wait until the mudslinging. Oh, yes, MW has been too quiet. I was more right than I could know Edited April 30, 2009 by Mr March Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Oh, yes, MW has been too quiet. I was more right than I could know It's been a few months since the "Who's Alto gonna end up with (and you're on drugs if you disagree with my opinion)?" debate and the "Macross F: I Love/Hate the Homages" debate had any urgency to them, and the "What'll be in the Macross F Movie?" debate has already gotten a little stale... What the hell ELSE are we gonna do besides attack each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoneWolf Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Hmm, I'm starting to think about having an attorney review all of my posts before I post them. I wouldn't want anyone confusing colorful grandiloquence as binding contract language. And yes, Seto's right. Macross II has gotten short shrift. But so has Macross 7: The Galaxy Is Calling Me. And the differences between the OVA and Movie versions of Macross Plus aren't even really being addressed. But that's to be expected. I agree that Macross II isn't the only series being given short shrift by the Chonicles. But I think it's possible that more material could be released for say, The Galaxy Is Calling Me, in the next few years than Macross II. For Macross II, the Chronicles most likely presents the series' last chance of seeing any noteworthy material published. Perhaps for Macross' 50th anniversary, Macross II might be revisited, but I doubt Macross II fans would want to wait that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 What else are we gonna do with each other? Why Gubaba, are you flirting with me? TheLoneWolf As your attorney, I must advise against publicly stating our intentions until we're ready to proceed with indictments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Ah, a Tommy Yune pie-slinging repeat. These character assassinations are anything but valid and a lame attempt to remain straight faced after being called on them. This "violence" crutch has descended beyond any facade of perspective. If you really believe this "threatening language", then file a police report. And after you're done, I've got some beachfront property to sell you. (...) Ah, I C. Attacking the straw man here. Anyhow, for those condoning that sort of behaviour, keep in mind that the people who create Macross are aware of Macross World (see Graham's recent talk with them). They have a less than spectacular command of English. What do you think their impressions of us English speaking fans are, after reading threats of violence in a machine-translation? Pffft... and you guys want Macross exported into English speaking countries. Why should the people behind Macross even bother when there are crazed fans that threaten violence, and others who condone it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Would you like my opinion? Seto posted a ridiculously silly critical opinion of the Chronicle and overzealous Chronicle fans let common sense fly out the window. Now the debate has become the words “threaten” or “violence” and a typical zero-perspective debate over the connotation of those words. Qui pro quo. As for the church lady finger-wagging and subsequent attempt at a guilt trip, I'll let that behaviour stand as testament to the tragic international-incident mountain that has become of this anthill. I'll give Big West reps credit that they are smart enough to understand fans wolf-packing each other over nonsense. Oh MW, you can still blow it up with the best of them. Don't let anyone ever tell you different Edited April 30, 2009 by Mr March Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 C'mon, people...let's move on. Does anyone actually HAVE Chronicle #21 yet? As I said before, mine was delayed thanks to Golden Week. What's the Timeline Sheet like? And what's the new binder breakdown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 C'mon, people...let's move on. Does anyone actually HAVE Chronicle #21 yet? But we were having so much fun I don't have mine yet. I got up to issue #19. I have to wait for a few more issues before buying another batch, to save on shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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