Macross Frontier Episode 4 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[eugimon]

I'm too used to teens being selected as pilots that it doesn't strike me as odd anymore....when it SHOULD. You're right, there was no real reason for them to pick Alto, other than the fact that he seems like a rough diamond that has big potential to be an ace pilot. The only reason he's there now is cuz he whined to Ozma and he saved his adopted sister.

And why they are hiring Mikhail and Luca...perhaps there's a reason why they don't want military men.

it looked to me like Ozma picked Alto as a way to piss off Ms. Glass since she was initially going to offer him a commision with NUNS.

[darkrealmbahamut]

Hikaru and Max were 16 or 17 when they took control of a VF. It also seems like SMS really scans hard into their pilots I mean Mikhail even said Alto would have easily surpassed Normal setting on the combat setting. Plus Luca doesn't seem like he is actual combat more of the recon man.

[Radd]

While kids piloting mecha is a tradition as old as the mecha-genre itself. This take on it really challenges my suspension of disbelief. I mean in SDF:M it was out of necessity to put the teens in. Evangelion they were the only ones who could synch. etc etc. With Frontier it's because...they don't have to pay them as much or what?

So, this show takes place in what? The 2050s? Humanity was decimated in 2010, so it's been 40 years. Not only has humanity been rebuilding and repopulating through cloning, but also spreading far across the galaxy in fleets made up of millions of people each. It's really not a stretch to think that people need to grow up fast in an era such as this.

Also, Alto is 17 according to the Compendium. Considering that in the current day and age you can join the military, or be drafted, at 18, comments on the characters being too young seem kinda ridiculous.

That's not to say I don't entirely disagree with the basic sentiment.

[Chronocidal]

On the Zents, are they part of NUNS? The captain of the ship bets on them as "his" guys right? It sounds like Michael explains to Ozma that the girls are part of SMS and used for dangerous recon jobs when NUNS is busy squabbling. This confuses me (not enough to detract while watching the show though).

They're all part of SMS, since they've all got the same uniform jackets, share the same facilities, etc.. plus they were all at the same SMS party at the restarurant. With SMS's status as a testing group, it makes sense that they'd have their own recon teams, since they'd need someone to scout out proper testing areas for whatever they happen to be working on.

As for them hiring kids in SMS... I'm almost tempted to think they do it for similar reasons to why Willy Wonka wanted to give his factory to a kid. Do it early enough, and they may not be jaded by military rules and regulations. Plus, SMS seems to me like they don't worry as much about strict rules and such, so they probably have more leeway with who they hire.

On a side note, it actually doesn't surprise me much age-wise, considering the situation today. Was talking with some navy folks recently, and what people are finding is that the current popularity of video games is producing a bumper crop of people with incredible reflexes from very early ages. I've personally been crazy about flight simulations since about age 8, and while I don't pretend to know jack about combat, I'm pretty sure I could jump in a fighter and fly it if I was given the opportunity (although the aeronautics degree I have would certainly help too ). The earlier you get people into planes, the more adaptable they will be. I'm not saying that we should start recruiting middle schoolers into fighter squadrons, but the ability may still be there that early.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Chronocidal

[biggooftoybox]

I concurr with some previous comments that NUNS cannot be made up of all incompetent pilots. They must have an ace or two in their mix. It would make good story telling to show some sort of rivalry between NUNS and SMS pilots. Actual pilot to pilot and not ust organizational competition.

PMC usually recruit ex-military personnel since they would already have experienced and were highly trained. So SMS picking up Mikhail, Luca and Alto is sort of strange. But then again, if they were on genius level i guess it would make sense to recruit them.

So it would appear no one has answered what SMS stands for is that right or did I miss it?

[mikeszekely]

On the Zents, are they part of NUNS? The captain of the ship bets on them as "his" guys right? It sounds like Michael explains to Ozma that the girls are part of SMS and used for dangerous recon jobs when NUNS is busy squabbling. This confuses me (not enough to detract while watching the show though).

I think all of them, the captain and Pixie included, are SMS (that is, I don't think that guy's the captain of Frontier-1, but of some kind of SMS command). I think it was Ozuma who used the "my guys" line, and he was probably just referring to Skull squadron.

Edit: Chronocidal beat me to it.

Edited April 29, 2008 by mikeszekely

[Phil K]

Er, Minmay was the fan service queen of the original cast and she was the same age as Ranka.

[darkrealmbahamut]

So, this show takes place in what? The 2050s? Humanity was decimated in 2010, so it's been 40 years. Not only has humanity been rebuilding and repopulating through cloning, but also spreading far across the galaxy in fleets made up of millions of people each. It's really not a stretch to think that people need to grow up fast in an era such as this.

Also, Alto is 17 according to the Compendium. Considering that in the current day and age you can join the military, or be drafted, at 18, comments on the characters being too young seem kinda ridiculous.

That's not to say I don't entirely disagree with the basic sentiment.

I have to agree with you that it seems like with your lives on the line in unknown territory these "kids" have to grow up faster and faster. I mean my grandparents were part of the WW2 era and they went to war at a young age and they weren't kids anymore. I imagine that is part of the SMS is drafting the best of the best.

[treatment]

lol!

I'm so quite very amused by the sudden misplaced prudishness being exhibited by some of the people posting in this thread.

[VF5SS]

People trying to justify Hikaru and Max's age is always funny. They're just standard robot show heroes, deal with it.

[Mr March]

I blame the liberal definition of "fan service" that is being thrown around. Many of the scenes in Macross Frontier labeled as fan service are actually nothing of the sort. But we're into the fifth episode now and Macross World Minutiae Mayhem is now in full swing and raging, so best of luck to us trying to throw around an equal amount of perspective

[Duke Togo]

Fan service has its place in anime, and the amount you have (and they type) has to be balanced with the kind of anime it is. Macross is going to have some amount of fan service, but the idea is its a more mature show, it shouldn't be over the top. We have to give them some credit with Frontier, they have totally avoided throwing in a single upskirt shot.

The boobage in Frontier is over the top for the kind of show it is and the franchise it is a part of. Its gratuitous. That is my complain with it.

[Gubaba]

Fan service has its place in anime, and the amount you have (and they type) has to be balanced with the kind of anime it is. Macross is going to have some amount of fan service, but the idea is its a more mature show, it shouldn't be over the top. We have to give them some credit with Frontier, they have totally avoided throwing in a single upskirt shot.

The boobage in Frontier is over the top for the kind of show it is and the franchise it is a part of. Its gratuitous. That is my complain with it.

There also hasn't been a single shower scene, which seemed like a requirement in all '80s robot anime.

[dreamweaver13]

I totally agree. In previous series and OVAs, pilots were always adults or at least almost adults. I don't quite remember someone as young as Luca piloting something as expensive or as deadly as a Valkyrie except maybe Mylene though she was playing a guitar and singing rather than blasting away at Protodeviln. I mean, there should be some kind of age limit where kids just shouldn't be allowed to pilot these things. True, a kid might be a genius himself at flying but that doesn't necessarily mean he has the maturity to make the kind of life and death decisions that an adult has to make in the heat of combat.

As for the recent friction here, aren't forums like this made for people like us to discuss topics of importance? Isn't it an unspoken rule between forum members to agree to disagree but disagree agreeably? Cool off a little

maybe the SMS pilots are young because SMS wants to pick them out from training school before the military realizes how good they are. it'll be harder to get them once they're signed up with the military. and also, that's the appeal of an independent military provider.. basically, SMS can place anyone they want -- no matter how young -- if it feels that they're good enough.

so here's the dilemma. in building its own elite force of VF25 pilots, SMS could be siphoning off the real talented pilots, hence leaving cannon fodder to the NUNS. On the other side of the coin, why would SMS let gifted pilots to the military, where they'll be piloting (relatively) crappy valkyries? to have the best fighter squadron ever, the best pilots have to be on the best valkyries.

i'm just wondering why it took SMS so long to get to alto. i mean, mikhail and luka already know he can fly particularly well (it was his "corkscrew", after all), he should at least already be on the radar of SMS when it comes to possible future recruits.

[Phil K]

i'm just wondering why it took SMS so long to get to alto. i mean, mikhail and luka already know he can fly particularly well (it was his "corkscrew", after all), he should at least already be on the radar of SMS when it comes to possible future recruits.

Alto transferred from the school of performing arts in midterm and thus missed out on recruitment.

[ComicKaze]

Well, that's also a good point, since rendering takes hours if you don't have the best equipment. What perhaps we wanted to say, which you also seem to agree with, is that it is less likely for animators to recycle 3D animations than to recycle hand-drawn ones for reasons that changing camera angles and pressing "render" is easier than having to draw the mech again, frame by frame, doing essentially the same thing. I do get why you suddenly call me an optimist, that statement I made was rashly written.

Peace

Plus render time is a moot issue in today's age where it was back in the early-mid 90s. The kind of cell-shaded CG that are in Macross F - I could render in real time on my home computer with modern videocard. Even if render time is a constraint, it's easily done overnight when everybody is asleep because computers can always be running.

I have friends working at one of the big game producing developers owned by EA. It's really simple and easy to just move models around and press play and get an entire scene. It's dirt cheap and fast...especially if it isn't doing anything realistic (like humans/animals/nature) and you are just manipulating ships, planes, and robots.

I'm okay with the character art being low-quality. Thats what you get with CG 2D animation these days. It seems to be balanced out by terrific attention to detail in backgrounds and mechanical design. This was usually the opposite back in the 80s where the characters and foreground looked great but the backgrounds were painted by a bunch of farmed out talent in Korea, etc. and it looked horrible with cheap/fake cookie-cutter buildings.

What I love about Macross is the world that the characters live in and not so much how detailed the characters looked. The Macross colonies and planets always have fantastic, vibrant, organic cities and landscapes that are both futuristic and classic and places I'd love to live in.

Edited April 30, 2008 by ComicKaze

[GogDog]

Plus render time is a moot issue in today's age where it was back in the early-mid 90s.

Not entirely. This may not apply to Macross Frontier, but for the Transformers movie last year, it took something like 36 hours to render a single second of CG. I know anime is nowhere near that obviously, but hi-res stuff still can take some time if done really well.

[dreamweaver13]

Fan service has its place in anime, and the amount you have (and they type) has to be balanced with the kind of anime it is. Macross is going to have some amount of fan service, but the idea is its a more mature show, it shouldn't be over the top. We have to give them some credit with Frontier, they have totally avoided throwing in a single upskirt shot.

The boobage in Frontier is over the top for the kind of show it is and the franchise it is a part of. Its gratuitous. That is my complain with it.

actually, i don't see anything wrong with fanservice. in fact i look for it, and enjoy it whenever i see it on my anime, or on other shows i watch...

ok, but maybe that's because i never restricted the term fan service to boobies,upskirts and panty shots. i have always considered fan service as anything which "fans" of the show or the genre would find enjoyable. By definition, it's fan service if it has nothing much to do with the plot of the current show, but fans of the genre would nevertheless get a kick out of it. maybe it's a cameo appearance from a revered character. maybe it's a homage to an old or related series (kyun kyun!!). maybe it's mentioning an obscure trivia that only hardcore fans would know about.

Mr. March would probably call this a "liberal" interpretation of fan service, but i would stand by this definition. because i would hate to think that we would accept the conception that the only things "fans" like us are exctied about are boobies, upskirts and panty shots.

so to fan service.. kampai!!

[Sundown]

Er, Minmay was the fan service queen of the original cast and she was the same age as Ranka.

Except Minmay looked close to late teen-adult, and her fan service was somewhat minimal, whereas Ranka seems deliberately designed to look a nebulous 12-15 and she is rather often posed bending over with her ever so short skirt "innocently" hiking up and just barely covering her rear. It happens often enough that I think it's somewhat deliberate, and thus, disturbing. There's also a ton of non-Ranka expressively provacative boobage in the form of Sheryl, the Miss Macross contestants, and Ranka's co-worker. This was mostly absent (or at least very mild and subdued) in SDF. Even Mac 7 wasn't quite as explicit and regular in its fan service, "loli" or otherwise.

Didn't someone mention that the character designer is responsible for a lot of moe anime? I can't help but see his significant influence in Frontier. Basically I agree with Togo-- I expect a little in Macross. M7 was a little borderline for me, because of Mylene's supposed age-- but she at least follows the anime tradition of looking and acting older than she is. Ranka's design seems to capitalize on the opposite-- she's innocent, cute, and child-like (and I have no problem with that), but she still gets placed in suggestive situations, and that for me is more disturbing. It seems almost every single prominant female character in Frontier has some sexualizing done to them already, and it distracts me from any deeper non-sexual character development there's supposed to be. Maybe because for most of them, there hasn't been any.

[dreamweaver13]

Alto transferred from the school of performing arts in midterm and thus missed out on recruitment.

oh yeah! forgot about that.

now see, everyting's falling into place. haha.

[eugimon]

meh, I don't get the strong reaction to the fanservice in MF. It certainly isn't any worse than gundam00 or eureka 7 or even BSG where nearly every episode features Six in some skimpy dress or in complete undress.

[Gubaba]

Except Minmay looked close to late teen-adult, and her fan service was somewhat minimal, whereas Ranka seems deliberately designed to look a nebulous 12-15 and she is rather often posed bending over with her ever so short skirt "innocently" hiking up and just barely covering her rear. It happens often enough that I think it's somewhat deliberate, and thus, disturbing. There's also a ton of non-Ranka expressively provacative boobage in the form of Sheryl, the Miss Macross contestants, and Ranka's co-worker. This was mostly absent (or at least very mild and subdued) in SDF. Even Mac 7 wasn't quite as explicit and regular in its fan service, "loli" or otherwise.

Didn't someone mention that the character designer is responsible for a lot of moe anime? I can't help but see his significant influence in Frontier. Basically I agree with Togo-- I expect a little in Macross. M7 was a little borderline for me, because of Mylene's supposed age-- but she at least follows the anime tradition of looking and acting older than she is. Ranka's design seems to capitalize on the opposite-- she's innocent, cute, and child-like (and I have no problem with that), but she still gets placed in suggestive situations, and that for me is more disturbing. It seems almost every single prominant female character in Frontier has some sexualizing done to them already, and it distracts me from any deeper non-sexual character development there's supposed to be. Maybe because for most of them, there hasn't been any.

I'm not sure you can say Ranka's fanservice quotient is higher than Minmay's...we haven't seen Ranka naked in the show.

But I wonder if that's the real problem...Look, I was eleven when I first saw Robotech...Minmay appeared indefinably "older" to me. I was twelve when I first saw DYRL. Now I'm thirty-four...about old enough to be a fifteen-year-old's dad. If the average macrossworlder is anything like me (and think you are), I'm wondering if there isn't a little bit of a "Put some clothes on, young lady!" attitude creeping in.

Just sayin'.

[Duke Togo]

Ranka has barely gotten any fanservice action, at all. Unless you count her Miss Macross swimsuit, they've been rather conservative with her. This is a very nice change to what they did with Mylene in 7.

[azrael]

I've added links to the leaked copy of "Diamond Crevasse" in the first post. THIS IS A LEAKED COPY. IT IS INCOMPLETE. THE ACTUAL RELEASE WILL CONTAIN THE INSTRUMENTAL TRACKS FOR A TOTAL OF 4 TRACKS.

The CD single is due in stores, May 8th 2008.

For more information, please see the The Compendium's "Diamond Crevasse" page.

[StrangeWill]

Not entirely. This may not apply to Macross Frontier, but for the Transformers movie last year, it took something like 36 hours to render a single second of CG. I know anime is nowhere near that obviously, but hi-res stuff still can take some time if done really well.

However, you usually have a farm of machines doing all the processing.

[Duke Togo]

I've added links to the leaked copy of "Diamond Crevasse" in the first post. THIS IS A LEAKED COPY. IT IS INCOMPLETE. THE ACTUAL RELEASE WILL CONTAIN THE INSTRUMENTAL TRACKS FOR A TOTAL OF 4 TRACKS.

The CD single is due in stores, May 8th 2008.

For more information, please see the The Compendium's "Diamond Crevasse" page.

Thank you, good sir.

[Beltane70]

Great, now all we need is the second concert song and I'll be a happy camper.

[Dio]

I'm getting some of those weird vibes from this episode, like I'm starting to put some pieces together and form wacky theories. Stop me if I'm getting stupid here

Ozma + Cathy Glass

I think their ex-relationship status might be related to Ozma's ex-NUNS status. Moreover, I think Ranka's accident had something to do with him leaving the service (and hence, Cathy) - perhaps he became disenchanted by the "fold accident" coverup and that pushed him to leave NUNS and take care of Ranka, but he can't abandon his training/nature so he still works for SMS?

As for him recruiting Alto to SMS, I don't think it's him trying to subvert Cathy's military enlistment offer, but more like a general motivation where he thinks Alto's potential would be wasted in NUNS ("cowards," as he called them in the first episode). I doubt it goes much deeper than that, given current information. He doesn't seem particularly close or mentor-ish to Alto, and is instead more of a supporting character.

SMS vs NUNS

I think the difference between this series and Macross 7, in terms of military presence, is that the Frontier fleet seems to be much more civilian-oriented than the Macross 7 fleet. We know the population is much higher, and so the military presence is probably minimized as a result, as well as the fact that they expect to encounter less hostile resistance. Since the Frontier fleet is heading inward, toward the center of the galaxy, perhaps they feel like it's more familiar/safer territory than if they were to go outward toward the galactic rim...

My Predictions based solely on Upcoming Episode Titles

"Bye Bye Sheryl" = Sheryl steps out of the limelight. Maybe she decides to turn Ranka into her successor since she feels like Ranka got gypped?

"First Attack" = New antagonist character identified. Brera Sterne, possibly?

"High School Queen" = Sheryl joining the high school as an ex-celebrity and now more prominent vertex of the series love triangle.

"Friendly Fire" = Not Pineapple Salad. In fact, I think Ozma's going to survive this series. Instead, I think this could be an episode featuring some long-brewing conflict between NUNS + SMS. Conversely, perhaps Ozma becomes the target of some jealous rage by Leon, and gets double-crossed and ends up seriously hurt. Leon seems shady enough to try something like that on Ozma, especially with their mutual interest in Cathy Glass.

[Graham]

My predictions based solely on the upcoming episode titles:

"Bye Bye Sheryl" = Sheryl returns to the Galaxy fleet. IIRC, it's been mentioned that she is only visiting the Frontier fleet for a short period of time.

"First Attack" = Vajra attack the Galaxy fleet. SMS launch to help and also to rescue Sheryl. I think Brera Sterne may be encoutered in this episode, but I don't think he will be an enemy. My current thinking is that he may be an ace pilot of the Galaxy fleet and may turn into a rival for Sheyrl or Ranka's affections.

"High School Queen" = No idea.

"Friendly Fire" = Alto is injured and hospitalized in a friendly fire incident during combat.

Graham

[Gubaba]

Meh...I'm leery of predictions. WAFO.

[JB0]

Hikaru and Max were 16 or 17 when they took control of a VF.

Hikaru was also a professional pilot before the show ever started. He was flying from a quite young age.

[Shun]

isn't Brera Sterne the guy that the President called in ep 1? he said something like they need his help, so i suspect Brera have something effective vs the vajra, maybe he's a singer as well? and he has that hairpin that looks suspiciously similar to what Sheryl has... (ok i'm probably way off, hahah doesnt hurt to make wild guesses yah?)

"High School Queen" has gotta be Ranka right?

Edited April 30, 2008 by Shun

[Duke Togo]

My predictions based solely on the upcoming episode titles:

"Bye Bye Sheryl" = Sheryl returns to the Galaxy fleet. IIRC, it's been mentioned that she is only visiting the Frontier fleet for a short period of time.

"First Attack" = Vajra attack the Galaxy fleet. SMS launch to help and also to rescue Sheryl. I think Brera Sterne may be encoutered in this episode, but I don't think he will be an enemy. My current thinking is that he may be an ace pilot of the Galaxy fleet and may turn into a rival for Sheyrl or Ranka's affections.

"High School Queen" = No idea.

"Friendly Fire" = Alto is injured and hospitalized in a friendly fire incident during combat.

Graham

1. Yeah, Frontier was the end of a 3 month tour for her.

2. Pffft, we've been following the manga,

we know the Galaxy fleet gets hit.

You know, I never considered that Sterne may be a pilot for the Galaxy's private military contractors, a la SMS. That would explain the variable fighter he flies, and his Zentradi ears.

3. For Alto's sake, I hope this isn't referring to him.

4. Oh, nice shooting, Graham. Way to go.

[Gubaba]

isn't Brera Sterne the guy that the President called in ep 1? he said something like they need his help, so i suspect Brera have something effective vs the vajra, maybe he's a singer as well? and he has that hairpin that looks suspiciously similar to what Sheryl has... (ok i'm probably way off, hahah doesnt hurt to make wild guesses yah?)

Crap, I didn't even put that together...I blame Shinsen Subs: they have a different name for him in every episode: Mr. Habiller, Mr. Viller, Mr. Bilra...

But yeah...I think you're right.

[Duke Togo]

isn't Brera Sterne the guy that the President called in ep 1?

No, not at all. That's Mr Habiler, or whatever his name is.