Macross Frontier Episode 4 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Batou]

Dear lord these threads are growing fast ... this many pages already with only raws out? For barely 24 hours a that?

I'm skeptical about the anima spiritia tangent, myself. I recall seeing that MF was a "sequel" to M7, but I seriously wouldn't get too hung up on it, guys. The Hory Froating One has a rather bad habit of discarding continuity that becomes inconvenient (otaku and obsessive fans like us are the only ones who give a rat's ass - he laughs at and mocks your attempts to "realize" his fantasy world), and we're only four episodes in, anyway. By the end, I think MF is going to be as distinct a take on the Macross universe as any of the other series before it.

Not sure if we're still supposed to use these ...

This might just be my favorite one yet ... that Q-Rau skirmish in the asteroid field was so cool it had me yelling at my computer monitor ... loved to that Zentran derelict just to use as a backdrop for more mecha pr0n. So much goodness it's hard to believe, and I don't even understand a word they're saying yet. Well, other than "kyuun kyuun ...kyuun kyuun" anyway

One thing I did notice on watching it the second time: Did anyone else see that both Alto's '25 and what's-'er-face's red Q-Rau both created a sonic boom cone just after they engaged each other and darted off? I'm talking specifically at 14:44 - 14:47? With no atmosphere, that seemed kind of odd. Come to think of it, if that's what we consider an "animation mistake" these days (as opposed to the VF-1R or whatever it was called fiasco), I think we're getting very spoiled. If we really want to nitpick, I guess that's just as silly as being able to hear anything with no air, either ...

Loved the update to the Q-Rau, esp the shoulder cannon. I'm assuming it's still called a Q-Rau ... I can't read 15 pages of back text to see if anyone already said. What is that other thing on its back?

So the Meltran girls go back and forth from micron to giant I guess? All the hubbub about that in the original series had me under the impression that that access to that technology was fairly restricted for fear of assimilated Zentradi getting crazy ideas and running amok. I guess this has changed in the last 50 or so years? Or maybe SMS is just a special case given their role?

Great, great episode.

So ... (looks at watch) ... (dweedle dweeee) ... (F5) ... (no sub yet) ... (looks at watch) ... (dweedley dwee) ... (F5) ... (damn it) ...

[Renato]

Sorry but when I hear KK's voice, I think of Konata from Lucky Star. If you haven't seen it, YOU NEED TO!!!!!!

Oh, and you guys getting all bent out of shape about big breasts, GET OVER IT!. It's anime and it's to be expected.

This anime is near perfection, any gripes will not be tolerated.

*Sigh*. I want lots of people to enjoy animation. Unfortunately, having these types of "wacky" characters with annoying voices are exactly what turns average people off. I don't get why people say things like "it's anime, that's the way it is". It's giving out such a bad image, this shouldn't have to be the stuff of geeks.

Shinichiro Watanabe's stuff (Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo) is the only anime I can show non-anime fans so I can convince them that it's not all otaku crap. The more this stuff comes up in Frontier, the less argument I have for convincing the layman of the potential of Japanese animation.

BTW, Shinichiro Watanabe specifically said in the interview he's happy when the old guys who run Teishokuya (little mom&pop owned restaurants/cafes) tell him they enjoyed his show last night. THAT'S what's important. The BIG picture.

[Gubaba]

Anyone else catch the Minmay doll being thrown at Ozuma in the next episode preview?

Yep...it was referred to a few pages back.

Weird coloring, though...

[Shun]

Anyone else catch the Minmay doll being thrown at Ozuma in the next episode preview?

u kidding?! Of coz we saw it!

it was there for a whole 0.0002 seconds!!

[Aegis!]

Oh, I forgot to point out how much the art direction and all the fanservice is annoying me. It's ok for other/newer anime but it's kind of unnecessary for macross, at least this amount of stuff. I mean, we've had some fanservice before, i know (SDF, M+, M0, even the almost lesbic-rape scene of mylene) but as Duke Togo pointed out, having this much (Bishōnen characters, Moe Zentradi, D-cup schoolgirls, transvestite protagonist,etc...) it just feels kinda cheap.

edit:misspelling

Edited April 26, 2008 by Aegis!

[Batou]

...

Shinichiro Watanabe's stuff (Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo) is the only anime I can show non-anime fans so I can convince them that it's not all otaku crap. The more this stuff comes up in Frontier, the less argument I have for convincing the layman of the potential of Japanese animation.

...

Agreed, but I feel obligated to point out Edward was both wacky and at times annoying.

[Shun]

Sorry but when I hear KK's voice, I think of Konata from Lucky Star. If you haven't seen it, YOU NEED TO!!!!!!

Oh, and you guys getting all bent out of shape about big breasts, GET OVER IT!. It's anime and it's to be expected.

This anime is near perfection, any gripes will not be tolerated.

actually the voice actress for Konata (Aya Hirano) is one of the bridge bunnies (the spectacled girl). Weird role for her, cos IMO the shortest bridge bunny with pink hair should be more suitable for her voice.

You are asking about "Anima Spiritia" which is the term used in Mac 7 to describe those capable of affecting the PD and thus imprisoning them.

We don't know if the AS used song or sound itself, though the implication in M7 was song. The AS were PC soldiers with this ability. They used it to imprison the PD, what other uses for such abilities has not been revealed thus far.

As already stated officially, MF is a sequel to M7, so it is possible that the AS abilities may well be explored further and what uses the PC had for it post PD...

One can speculate that AS was a known phenomenon prior to the PD, as possibly displayed in Zero and since no one knew what that ability was called in 2008, it was not specifically stated. This doesn't discount the ability or how it was used. We do know it was used specifically against the PD and that is all we know so far. What else it could be used for is up for speculation or revelation (if there will be any) in Macross Frontier.

i tend to agree with what u said there about AS might not be the song or sound itself and who knows it might be channelled via other means. Or maybe singing somehow is the easier way (at least for humans) to tap that energy.

[Gubaba]

*Sigh*. I want lots of people to enjoy animation. Unfortunately, having these types of "wacky" characters with annoying voices are exactly what turns average people off. I don't get why people say things like "it's anime, that's the way it is". It's giving out such a bad image, this shouldn't have to be the stuff of geeks.

Shinichiro Watanabe's stuff (Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo) is the only anime I can show non-anime fans so I can convince them that it's not all otaku crap. The more this stuff comes up in Frontier, the less argument I have for convincing the layman of the potential of Japanese animation.

BTW, Shinichiro Watanabe specifically said in the interview he's happy when the old guys who run Teishokuya (little mom&pop owned restaurants/cafes) tell him they enjoyed his show last night. THAT'S what's important. The BIG picture.

I see your point (although I tend to use Miyazaki to convert non-fans...but if they're REALLY against anime, then I pull out the big guns: Grave of the Fireflies), but Macross really is an otaku series. In Japan (as I'm sure you know), if you say you like Gundam or Macross, you might as well be cosplaying as Char Aznable, carrying a hard drive full of loli hentai...ditto Evangelion, unless you just say, "Oh, I saw the new movie. It was good."

Expecting a Macross series NOT to cater to otaku is a little unrealistic, IMHO. Something like Macross Plus can find a crossover market (as it did in the west...not sure about how it was received in Japan)...but then, as you say, it's a Shinichiro Watanabe production. Good otaku productions and good crossover productions are both equally rare, so I say we should enjoy Macross Frontier for what it is...a good otaku series, instead of wishing it were something else.

[Gerli]

Awesome Episode.. my favorite until now..

[Shun]

Awesome Episode.. my favorite until now..

oh boy.... u have my fav nanase in ur animated avatar...

[Gerli]

oh boy.... u have my fav nanase in ur animated avatar...

Wanna fight for her?

[Macross1982]

Great Episode!! Loved Ranka's Backpack and her new version of Watashi No Kare wa Pilot!! All the songs are great and the opening and ending are starting to sound better everytime I hear them , When is the Cd coming out???

[Kronnang Dunn]

I started to respond...and then I confused myself, so I'm starting again.

I think the reason why I confused myself is because "Anima Spiritia" is clearly, as you say, an ability. And yet, the Protodeviln say that Basara IS Anima Spirita, not that Basara HAS Anima Spirita. In any case, Anima Spirita is the bane of the Protodeviln, not the Vajra.

The Vajra seem to NOTICE sound energy, & are not affected by it. That's why they are perfect to search & destroy Anima Spiritia. The Supervision Army had Zentradi & Protoculture on their ranks, so I believe the last ones created the VAJRA as a space bound lifeform powerful enough to search the galaxy for the main treat to the Protodeviln & kill them. They must have been genetically programmed to do so, that's why they are still working despite the fact the Protodeviln left this galaxy (as seen in M7) & the Supervision Army is no more (apparently). The Vajra must have been around for thousands of years since the Zentradi mecha & weaponry seem more fit to fight them. The energy/reaction weaponry & fast mecha (like the Q-Rau) of the Zentradi perhaps were created specifically to deal with the Vajra.

They want to kill Ranka, since in episode 2 the small Vajra shot its beam cannon towards Alto/Ranka when they were in the VF-25 (if it wanted to capture her it wouldn't have shot at them). The red Large Vajra didn't kill Ranka right away because it didn't had to. It just took its time because it thought that there weren't any treats left after crushing Gilliam.

When I said earlier that Ranka & Sheryl were ANIMA SPIRITIA was because it was an adjective used in Macross 7 to name people/protoculture capable of using Sound Energy to Increase Spiritia in others. Macross Frontier & Macross Zero relate a lot to Seven. DYRL also showed that the Protoculture used music, since the main ending theme (Ai Oboetei Imasuka) is supposed to be an ancient Protoculture song... Is all in the music baby!

Btw... Did anybody here noticed that the Vajra drawing in the S.M.S. bar looked like it was made by a 4 year old? Perhaps Ranka did it...

Edited April 26, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Holocause]

I for one have blocked-off the Spiritia aspect of this out of my head by simply not getting caught up in the Mac7 hoopla. I have not watched Mac7 for reasons I don't want to expound here.

As such from my standpoint looking at M:F... all it is to me is that the Vajra are simply after the Macross Frontier fleet itself. From my perspective it just so happens that Lanka and Sheryl seem to be at the wrong place at the wrong time for a Close Encounters of the Third Kind moment with the intent of destruction. Until futher plot points are developed (based on the anime, I don't read the manga), I just find the Vajra an angry race bent on destruction, perhaps cos the M:F is trampling on their turf. It keeps things simple

Edited April 26, 2008 by Holocause

[Kronnang Dunn]

I for one have blocked-off the Spiritia aspect of this out of my head by simply not getting caught up in the Mac7 hoopla. I have not watched Mac7 for reasons I don't want to expound here.

As such from my standpoint looking at M:F... all it is to me is that the Vajra are simply after the Macross Frontier fleet itself. From my perspective it just so happens that Lanka and Sheryl seem to be at the wrong place at the wrong time for a Close Encounters of the Third Kind moment with the intent of destruction. Until futher plot points are developed (based on the anime, I don't read the manga), I just find the Vajra an angry race bent on destruction, perhaps cos the M:F is trampling on their turf. It keeps things simple

I used to hate Macross 7 at first. But after watching it entirely (including the OVAS) I like it. It made clear lots of doubts & questions I had since I watched Macross Zero. I understood the original Macross, DYRL & Zero better after watching it. It kinda fits perfectly with the whole Macross continuity (I still don't like the poppy songs that much though...).

I believe that, by now, the Macross Frontier anime has made clear this facts:

1) The Vajra are an artificial lifeform.

2) The Vajra are resilient.

3) The Vajra are fast.

4) The Vajra have reaction weaponry.

5) Human energy knifes & Zentraedi energy ranged weapons (at close range) work better against them.

6) The Vajra can detect Ranka Lee's singing & are attracted by it.

7) The Vajra are after Ranka Lee (& want to kill her apparently).

The Macross Frontier Fleet is just collateral damage to them (like Ranka's family was 11 years ago). If they wanted to destroy the Frontier fleet right away, they would have did so since episode 1.

9) Ranka Lee is not Ozma's sister.

10) Ranka Lee is a quarter Zentradi.

Edited April 26, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Vegas]

i dont know why you guys keep on insisting that theres an anima spiritia connection here.

[Vegas]

i dont know why you guys keep on insisting that theres an anima spiritia connection here.

[Gubaba]

The Vajra seem to NOTICE sound energy, & are not affected by it. That's why they are perfect to search & destroy Anima Spiritia. The Supervision Army had Zentradi & Protoculture on their ranks, so I believe the last ones created the VAJRA as a space bound lifeform powerful enough to search the galaxy for the main treat to the Protodeviln & kill them. They must have been genetically programmed to do so, that's why they are still working despite the fact the Protodeviln left this galaxy (as seen in M7) & the Supervision Army is no more (apparently). The Vajra must have been around for thousands of years since the Zentradi mecha & weaponry seem more fit to fight them. The energy/reaction weaponry & fast mecha (like the Q-Rau) of the Zentradi perhaps were created specifically to deal with the Vajra.

They want to kill Ranka, since in episode 2 the small Vajra shot its beam cannon towards Alto/Ranka when they were in the VF-25 (if it wanted to capture her it wouldn't have shot at them). The red Large Vajra didn't kill Ranka right away because it didn't had to. It just took its time because it thought that there weren't any treats left after crushing Gilliam.

When I said earlier that Ranka & Sheryl were ANIMA SPIRITIA was because it was an adjective used in Macross 7 to name people/protoculture capable of using Sound Energy to Increase Spiritia in others. Macross Frontier & Macross Zero relate a lot to Seven. DYRL also showed that the Protoculture used music, since the main ending theme (Ai Oboetei Imasuka) is supposed to be an ancient Protoculture song... Is all in the music baby!

Btw... Did anybody here noticed that the Vajra drawing in the S.M.S. bar looked like it was made by a 4 year old? Perhaps Ranka did it...

That's interesting speculation, and I like it. I don't agree with it, but I like it.

There's one big problem with it...I think you're relying more on the previous Macross series than the Hory Froating Head will. I can guarantee that, as many in-jokes and homages the show throws at us, at its core it is something that is very accessible to new viewers, and won't try to alienate them by requiring that they watch 50 or 60 hours of previous Macross stories. Will there be something about the Protoculture? I'm almost sure of it. But will we find out what happened to the Megaroad-01, come across Shin and Sara, see a middle-aged Basara, and check in with Isamu and Myung? I wouldn't bet on it...and ditto for Protodeviln and Anima Spiritia.

Of course, this all speculation, too, and I could be quite wrong...but I remember when everyone here jumped all over Zero, thinking it was a prelude to SDFM, instead of side story that just happened to be set before the series.

and again, maybe Frontier will take up all the loose ends from the previous Macross stories and tie them all up into a radient, harmonious whole. But that would leave a lot of Japanese teenagers scratching their heads and then trashing the series...which is the last thing any of the investors want.

[Duke Togo]

I believe that, by now, the Macross Frontier anime has made clear this facts:

1) The Vajra are an artificial lifeform.

2) The Vajra are resilient.

3) The Vajra are fast.

4) The Vajra have reaction weaponry.

5) Human energy knifes & Zentraedi energy ranged weapons (at close range) work better against them.

6) The Vajra can detect Ranka Lee's singing & are attracted by it.

7) The Vajra are after Ranka Lee (& want to kill her apparently).

The Macross Frontier Fleet is just collateral damage to them (like Ranka's family was 11 years ago). If they wanted to destroy the Frontier fleet right away, they would have did so since episode 1.

9) Ranka Lee is not Ozma's sister.

10) Ranka Lee is a quarter Zentradi.

4. I haven't seen them use any.

5. The opening shows Alto taking out a Lobster with his gun pod.

6. We don't know that to be the case.

7. We don't know that to be the case.

8. We don't know that to be the case.

[Duke Togo]

Yeah, too many people getting caught up in Macross 7 thinking, when this show isn't Macross 7. Using terms like "spiritia" and "sound energy".

If I had to guess, I would say they are effected by emotional response. When Ranka screamed in the cockpit with Alto, they reacted and bugged out. This wasn't singing. If singing brings Ranka and Sheryl a great amount of joy, perhaps this attracts them. I dunno.

In each series, music has been used differently. In SDF Macross, it was culture shock. In Plus it was hypnotic. In 7, it was, well, magical. In Zero it was, I dunno, a controlling force? Anyway, you get my point.

[Koing Monster]

Although I agree that the Vajra(?) are attracted to music I don't think that it's only Ranka that attracts them. Do note that it was during Sheryl's concert in the Frontier that they started to attack. Also it was Sheryl's singing in the observation park in episode 2 that attracted the hold outs from the first attack.

Another thing to note is when Ranka screamed after Alto "accidentally" touched her boobs, that the Red Vajra that Ozama was fighting got disoriented.

[Beltane70]

4) The Vajra have reaction weaponry.

I'm with Duke on this one. Beam weapons are not considered reaction weaponry. Until we see the Vajra using missile technology, we don't know if they possess reaction weaponry.

[Gubaba]

Yeah, too many people getting caught up in Macross 7 thinking, when this show isn't Macross 7. Using terms like "spiritia" and "sound energy".

If I had to guess, I would say they are effected by emotional response. When Ranka screamed in the cockpit with Alto, they reacted and bugged out. This wasn't singing. If singing brings Ranka and Sheryl a great amount of joy, perhaps this attracts them. I dunno.

In each series, music has been used differently. In SDF Macross, it was culture shock. In Plus it was hypnotic. In 7, it was, well, magical. In Zero it was, I dunno, a controlling force? Anyway, you get my point.

In Zero, it was generation and destruction.

And I do think the Vajra might be attracted to singing, but I place that in the Watch And Find Out (WAFO) category...

Other than that, I completely agree with you...I'd be willing to bet that there will be no major plot connections with 7 here, and certainly nothing involving Anima Spiritia.

Again, I could be wrong, but I feel pretty sure about this.

[Duke Togo]

WAFO FTW!

[Gubaba]

And Anima Spiritia FTL!

[Gerli]

Until we see the Vajra using missile technology, we don't know if they possess reaction weaponry.

Hey! they shoot something like missiles in Ep.1

Edited April 26, 2008 by Gerli

[Duke Togo]

Hey! they shoot something like missiles in Ep.1

Yeah, but they're not nuclear.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Yeah, but they're not nuclear.

Beam weapons are not considered reaction weaponry.

Why not...? The Vajra could very well be reaction-energy powered... (that could explain their greaaat power...).

Edited April 26, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[MilSpex]

The pacing of Macross F is nice and it looks pretty but I can`t get past the excessive smoothness of the CG fight sequences.

Even some episodes of Macross 7 felt more like Macross to me, simply for being hand drawn.

To truly feel like Macross the fights needs to be hand drawn imo. The character sequences in Macross F DO feel like Macross because of this imo..

[Chronocidal]

u kidding?! Of coz we saw it!

it was there for a whole 0.0002 seconds!!

The big question is, did you catch the flying model VF-25?? The minmay doll was at least on screen for more than one frame, but I managed to freeze one frame where you can see a VF-25's leg with purple trim, right below the flying pan.

As for reaction weapony though, I always thought that referred spcifically to nuclear weapons. I'd have to watch SDFM again to be sure, but I think the point where they recognize reaction weapons being used on them is when one of their cruisers gets nuked. They're pretty startled by it, as if it had either been forbidden for them to use, or they had lost the technology long ago. I don't remember seeing any similar reaction when the Valks started blowing micro missiles every which way.

[Zinjo]

Yeah, too many people getting caught up in Macross 7 thinking, when this show isn't Macross 7. Using terms like "spiritia" and "sound energy".

If I had to guess, I would say they are effected by emotional response. When Ranka screamed in the cockpit with Alto, they reacted and bugged out. This wasn't singing. If singing brings Ranka and Sheryl a great amount of joy, perhaps this attracts them. I dunno.

In each series, music has been used differently. In SDF Macross, it was culture shock. In Plus it was hypnotic. In 7, it was, well, magical. In Zero it was, I dunno, a controlling force? Anyway, you get my point.

After re-reading the kawamori interview in NT USA Dec. I have to revise my position and agree. This series likely won't have any spiritia related concepts in it, as the man deliberately makes each series different and he has alluded that this one will likely be different than what's come before.

This is his philosphy and the reason he gives for why he initially divorced himself from the franchise. As far as he was concerned it had been done and he wanted to move on to something different. So it seems he's found a way to engage himself within the franchise by making each series different from the last.

[Mr March]

I see your point (although I tend to use Miyazaki to convert non-fans...but if they're REALLY against anime, then I pull out the big guns: Grave of the Fireflies), but Macross really is an otaku series. In Japan (as I'm sure you know), if you say you like Gundam or Macross, you might as well be cosplaying as Char Aznable, carrying a hard drive full of loli hentai...ditto Evangelion, unless you just say, "Oh, I saw the new movie. It was good."

Expecting a Macross series NOT to cater to otaku is a little unrealistic, IMHO. Something like Macross Plus can find a crossover market (as it did in the west...not sure about how it was received in Japan)...but then, as you say, it's a Shinichiro Watanabe production. Good otaku productions and good crossover productions are both equally rare, so I say we should enjoy Macross Frontier for what it is...a good otaku series, instead of wishing it were something else.

I agree with Gubaba on this one. Macross is a geek series and always has been. Macross Plus is about a serious as Macross ever became, but even that OVA was solid sci-fi geek porn. Macross is not the kind of show that caters to the main stream, especially North American audiences, and is not cool nor will it ever be. Even the hip, much lauded Cowboy Bebop isn't cool to most people simply by virtue of being sci-fi, animated and foreign. And like it or not, the rule of cool still reigns over the opinions of the masses. Our geek shows, no matter how accepted and popular, will always be geeky and never cool.

I say just be thankful Macross Frontier rocks. It's great Macross, or what a Macross sequel should have been. Enjoy it while it lasts

Edited April 26, 2008 by Mr March

[Zinjo]

Why not...?

Because reaction weaponry is a euphemism for nuclear missiles. There have always been two major weapons in the Macross universe, Nuclear missiles and buster/macross cannons. I am not entirely sure if the PD had reaction weapons, but the Zentreadi haven't had any for millenia.

The Lobster Vajra have what appears to be small scale buster/macross cannons on their backs. The missiles appear to be of a conventional type. If they were nuclear they'd be far more powerful than what we've seen so far.

Don't mistake their alien propellant trails as some sort of nuclear powered thrust. It is definitely alien in nature, possibly super dimension powered, but not reaction weaponry.

Edited April 26, 2008 by Zinjo

[Kronnang Dunn]

Because reaction weaponry is a euphemism for nuclear missiles. There have always been two major weapons in the Macross universe, Nuclear missiles and buster/macross cannons. I am not entirely sure if the PD had reaction weapons, but the Zentreadi haven't had any for millenia.

The Lobster Vajra have what appears to be small scale buster/macross cannons on their backs. The missiles appear to be of a conventional type. If they were nuclear they'd be far more powerful than what we've seen so far.

I believe I may have used the wrong term... I was refering to their energy source all along. The Vajra must be Reaction-energy powered to have such powerful weaponry... (the cannon of the large one & the nose of the small ones).

Edited April 26, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[MilSpex]

I agree with Gubaba on this one. Macross is a geek series and always has been. Macross Plus is about a serious as Macross ever became, but even that OVA was solid sci-fi geek porn. Macross is not the kind of show that caters to the main stream, especially North American audiences, and is not cool nor will it ever be. Even the hip, much lauded Cowboy Bebop isn't cool to most people simply by virtue of being sci-fi, animated and foreign. And like it or not, the rule of cool still reigns over the opinions of the masses. Our geek shows, no matter how accepted and popular, will always be geeky and never cool.

I say just be thankful Macross Frontier rocks. It's great Macross, or what a Macross sequel should have been. Enjoy it while it lasts

Well actually if you watched a show as a kid in Japan and still like it as an adult for nostalgia value its pretty normal. I work at a school in Japan and a lot of the male teachers have Macross and Gundam screen savers on their PCs. Everyone sits in one big room by the way. The teachers are pretty normal ones and nobody thinks its strange. I talk to some of them about Macross sometimes. None of them know about Macross F tho.

My girlfriends brother was also a womanising playboy who dated TV models and stuff a lot. His room that he`d bring them home to had a Gundam DVD box set and a giant RX78 in it.

Guys who completely fill their rooms with Gundam stuff, are fat and unsociable in Japan are considered geeky otaku but there is some mainstream acceptance of shows like Gundam and Macross.

Edited April 26, 2008 by MilSpex