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Battlestar Galactica Discussion III


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Well, I knew that moment of triumph couldn't last...the secret tribunal making people "disappear" was pretty...icky.

Thank goodness Roslin is president again.

And I'm really curious what's going to happen to Baltar. Part of me TOTALLY wants him to get up on that high-chair, and dramatically intone, "Centurions, destroy Adama and his pitiful fleet!" And then the Centurions will say, "By your command," and waddle out of the room.

But somehow...I just don't think that's going to happen. :p

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And I'm really curious what's going to happen to Baltar.

When you get to the middle through the end, you'll find out.

Part of me TOTALLY wants him to get up on that high-chair, and dramatically intone, "Centurions, destroy Adama and his pitiful fleet!" And then the Centurions will say, "By your command," and waddle out of the room.

But somehow...I just don't think that's going to happen. :p

Well....they don't say "By your command", but they ummmm... "waddle out" of their "armor". :p

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So when Ellen said, "I need a drink," she knew what was in it...? She's a lot stronger than I gave her credit for...

I think it's up to the audience to decide whether she knew about the poison or not.

But the actress who plays Ellen said in a previous interview that she played the scene as if she knew the drink was poisoned.

I gained a lot of respect for Ellen for 'fessing up the way she did. No excuses, no begging for forgiveness; just a straight up admission of the whole ugly affair and explaining (with no apologies) that she would have done anything and everything to keep Saul alive.

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I think it's up to the audience to decide whether she knew about the poison or not.

But the actress who plays Ellen said in a previous interview that she played the scene as if she knew the drink was poisoned.

Then she did a good job...the impression I got was that she knew, but was trying to temporarily "forget" in order to gag the stuff down.

I gained a lot of respect for Ellen for 'fessing up the way she did. No excuses, no begging for forgiveness; just a straight up admission of the whole ugly affair and explaining (with no apologies) that she would have done anything and everything to keep Saul alive.

Yes, yes, yes...and then, instead of shrilly berating Tigh as she would've done a year and half before, she simply accepted her fate with grace and dignity.

Gaeta clearly would have gone out of the airlock with similar dignity, were it not for the mention of the dog bowl...

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Suddenly, I *really* don't know where the show is going (which is a good thing!).

Cylon diseases? Beacons left by the 13th colony? Cylons want to settle on earth? Good stuff.

Again with the parallelism, as Starbuck cutting her (awesome scene), putting on her uniform, and getting back in the groove is contrasted with Tigh staying in his room, getting drunk.

(Oh...and a nice parallel I forgot to mention before...in the miniseries, when Baltar realized that everything was falling apart, (and after he tried to call his lawyer :rolleyes: ), his only thought was how to stay alive. In Exodus Part II, when Baltar realized that everything was falling apart, he begged Gaeta to shoot him. I think he meant it, too. Clearly, some major shifts have gone on inside the guy's head...)

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Suddenly, I *really* don't know where the show is going (which is a good thing!).

...

The problem is that, at this point, the writers also don't know where the show is going either... (RDM has admitted as much, so... don't take it out on me. :D) In my opinion this will come back to bite them later on, but there are lots of differing opinions on this.

And yes, I really think Baltar meant it when he asked Gaeta to shoot him. Watching Baltar's character develop over the course of the series was one of the most interesting and fun parts.

Edited by -Snowblind-
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The problem is that, at this point, the writers also don't know where the show is going either... (RDM has admitted as much, so... don't take it out on me. :D) In my opinion this will come back to bite them later on, but there are lots of differing opinions on this.

*sigh*

(Now, obviously, I haven't seen this play out yet - although my DVD provider told me that throughout most of Season 1, they had no idea what they were doing with Helo and Sharon, and they made THAT work - so I'm speaking in general here.)

Why don't they plot it all out AT THE BEGINNING? I mean, I realize it's TV and all, and they want to make any series run for as long as they possibly can, but there's still a lot to be said for starting at the end and plotting backwards. Or at least having an end point in mind, and all the major steps along the way. If the Cylons have taught us anything, it's that YOU NEED TO HAVE A PLAN.

And yes, I really think Baltar meant it when he asked Gaeta to shoot him. Watching Baltar's character develop over the course of the series was one of the most interesting and fun parts.

Baltar is VERY interesting. It's difficult not to like him (for me at least), and I kinda sorta want him to succeed, or at least survive, despite the fact that his actions cause A LOT of real suffering, death, and destruction. He's just THAT charming. :D

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*sigh*

(Now, obviously, I haven't seen this play out yet - although my DVD provider told me that throughout most of Season 1, they had no idea what they were doing with Helo and Sharon, and they made THAT work - so I'm speaking in general here.)

Why don't they plot it all out AT THE BEGINNING? I mean, I realize it's TV and all, and they want to make any series run for as long as they possibly can, but there's still a lot to be said for starting at the end and plotting backwards. Or at least having an end point in mind, and all the major steps along the way. If the Cylons have taught us anything, it's that YOU NEED TO HAVE A PLAN.

Baltar is VERY interesting. It's difficult not to like him (for me at least), and I kinda sorta want him to succeed, or at least survive, despite the fact that his actions cause A LOT of real suffering, death, and destruction. He's just THAT charming. :D

I think the very collaborative nature of TV/film works against having a rigid plan

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I think the very collaborative nature of TV/film works against having a rigid plan

Babylon 5 had a plan and exit plans just in chase there were actor problems.

RDM here is winging it. So much that some in Space Battles screams recon at it.

Cylon diseases? Beacons left by the 13th colony? Cylons want to settle on earth? Good stuff.

A human disease actually. Which the Colonials after centuries became immune. The Cylons who took human form did not include that immunity in their genes. whoops!

Lymphocytic choriomeningitis ,of which encephalitis is one form, is a real disease. One gets it from rodent droppings. A good reason to wash yourself thoroughly if you went through a flood.

It is implied by the existence of the scrolls of Pythia somebody came back to Kobol and told the rest of the 13th Tribe's journey.

With Cylons wanting to live on Earth it shows their want of a special destiny in accordance with their religion. Cavil thinks it's all bull.

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The MKII Viper is 1st on my list and when GALACTICA comes out, thats a must buy. Maybe 2 of them. One for her glory days & one after her final Jump!!!

I found these pics the other day of the new Moebius MKII Viper, can't wait!!! B))

Box art and the parts photos.

This kit is coming out Jan next year, 5,040円

page-13866.jpg

ref1-13866.jpg

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The fact that they needed a plan in Season 3 and didn't have one is what makes the movie The Plan that much less satisfying. It was there opportunity to go back and form something a bit more cohesive out of the elements that got sloppy in the middle and they totally failed.

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Why don't they plot it all out AT THE BEGINNING? I mean, I realize it's TV and all, and they want to make any series run for as long as they possibly can, but there's still a lot to be said for starting at the end and plotting backwards. Or at least having an end point in mind, and all the major steps along the way. If the Cylons have taught us anything, it's that YOU NEED TO HAVE A PLAN.

To be fair to RDM here, 'The Plan' was, if memory serves, never his idea - that was entirely an invention of the people that did the show opening, and he ended up having to play along. :D

Baltar is VERY interesting. It's difficult not to like him (for me at least), and I kinda sorta want him to succeed, or at least survive, despite the fact that his actions cause A LOT of real suffering, death, and destruction. He's just THAT charming. :D

I think the fact that Baltar actually does seem to have a conscience and sense of guilt adds a lot of depth to the character. ...The fact that his conscience/sense of guilt is constantly at war with his sense of self-interest and self-preservation make him an enjoyable character. He's not the cookie cutter villain from the first series at all. Tyrol and Tigh are great characters as well.

I think the very collaborative nature of TV/film works against having a rigid plan

I agree that you can't really have a rigid plan, but knowing what the end game is helps immensely. Like Gubaba said, start at the end and work your way backwards. That way you don't end up pulling things out of your... erm... hat. The problem I have with RDM and company when it comes to plotting (and again, they've said as much) is that they really had no idea where they were going, and instead of trying to figure it out, they went with the 'cool' (their word) idea of the week. That works for a series like, say, Star Trek - where there really is no overall story arc, but not for a show which has a definitive end point. The 12 Cylon models, for example... at the beginning of the series they really had no idea what they were. The final 5 were a last minute thing (I won't say any more here to avoid spoilers), etc etc. The end of S3 and most of S4 were where it really became obvious that the writers were making it up as they went. Like I said, some people love where they went. I prefer tight plotting.

Babylon 5 had a plan and exit plans just in chase there were actor problems.

...

Supernatural also has an overall plot arc which is winding down.

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Saul Tigh is such a lame character through the first couple seasons though. After he did that horrible job helming Galactica I seriously hated his character for a while. I also thought his arch later in the series with

Ellen/Six

was just awkward. In the end he's a plenty INTERESTING character but definitely not the one I was tuning in for.

Edited by jenius
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Babylon 5 had a plan and exit plans just in chase there were actor problems.

RDM here is winging it. So much that some in Space Battles screams recon at it.

A human disease actually. Which the Colonials after centuries became immune. The Cylons who took human form did not include that immunity in their genes. whoops!

Lymphocytic choriomeningitis ,of which encephalitis is one form, is a real disease. One gets it from rodent droppings. A good reason to wash yourself thoroughly if you went through a flood.

It is implied by the existence of the scrolls of Pythia somebody came back to Kobol and told the rest of the 13th Tribe's journey.

With Cylons wanting to live on Earth it shows their want of a special destiny in accordance with their religion. Cavil thinks it's all bull.

Thank goodness I didn't read this until now...I would've been pissed if I'd read it before I watched episode 6 (which I just finished).

EDIT: Whoops, I meant episode 7...

Edited by Gubaba
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I agree that Saul Thigh is the best character in the whole show... followed by Six / Baltar. They whole show should just be renamed:

"Saul Thigh's drunken rampage through the universe and how I got this eyepatch"

I think a better title would be: "Godsdammit! What the FRAK is Going On?!" by Saul Tigh

-----------------

Personally, I think "A Measure of Salvation" was probably the worst episode of the entire series run.

Even worse, than the whole Love Quadrangle stuff too.

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My DVD provider said that she started with Season 3, and felt a great attachment to Helo, because, as she put it, "one of the first episodes I saw was a Helo episode. Looking back on it, it wasn't very good, but it made me like him."

I *think* she was talking about "A Measure of Salvation."

I dunno. I liked it okay. I just finished watching "Hero," which didn't thrill me too much. It gave some important backstory, and seems to signal Tigh's return to responsibilty, but it did so in a not-very-interesting way.

I'm finding the Cylons fascinating, though. The "projection" stuff was interesting, the Hybrid was very cool in a Delphic oracle sort of way, and Baltar having a three-way with Caprica and Warrior Princess Xena was something of a surprise.

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Or that a clips show could be so interesting. (I think that was the clips episode) (and OK, so the clips were not aired previously...)

Was it stuff they had filmed previously but had ended up on the cutting room floor? If so, they did a good job of piecing it together in an interesting way.

And yeah...this episode was clearly a cost-cutting episode, but they did it in a smart way, and made it feel like a necessary part of the story.

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I remember a lot fof people didn't like that episode when it aired, but I liked it. I like Lee, he's one of the main characters that I thought was under used/ appreciated. He has a really good speach at the end of the season.

Chris

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I remember a lot fof people didn't like that episode when it aired, but I liked it. I like Lee, he's one of the main characters that I thought was under used/ appreciated. He has a really good speach at the end of the season.

Chris

I guess I can see where, watching it weekly, people wouldn't like it. It doesn't advance the overall plot much, but it does change a lot of stuff that we thought we already knew about.

I like Lee, too. I thought he was a douche at first, but he's grown on me. :)

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You know its bothered me how unprotected Cylon Double Y Basestars are compared to Double Saucer Basestars and Battlestars.

Sure its a carrier analog but that's just it a carrier. A carrier unprotected by a battle group. Where as the Battlestar is a carrier/battleship hybrid that operates in battlegroups. Thus the different classes of Battlestars and other support ships like the Berzerk.

Double Saucer Basestars can at least hold its own against a Battlestar. Wonder where the heck did those go?

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Was it stuff they had filmed previously but had ended up on the cutting room floor? If so, they did a good job of piecing it together in an interesting way.

And yeah...this episode was clearly a cost-cutting episode, but they did it in a smart way, and made it feel like a necessary part of the story.

If memory serves they ended up blowing a significant portion of the season's effects and CGI budget on the first 4 or 5 episodes... But it was worth it... :D

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Was it stuff they had filmed previously but had ended up on the cutting room floor? If so, they did a good job of piecing it together in an interesting way.

And yeah...this episode was clearly a cost-cutting episode, but they did it in a smart way, and made it feel like a necessary part of the story.

nope, they filmed those things specifically for the boxing episode and scheduled it into the new caprica shoots

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You know its bothered me how unprotected Cylon Double Y Basestars are compared to Double Saucer Basestars and Battlestars.

Sure its a carrier analog but that's just it a carrier. A carrier unprotected by a battle group. Where as the Battlestar is a carrier/battleship hybrid that operates in battlegroups. Thus the different classes of Battlestars and other support ships like the Berzerk.

Double Saucer Basestars can at least hold its own against a Battlestar. Wonder where the heck did those go?

I don't remember if it was here or in another forum, but I remember reading a discussion about the design of the Basestar and that it was tremendously successful on its role. Basically, the whole Cylon war machine for their vengeance war was engineered not a as fighting force, but a mop-up force to destroy the myriad disabled targets after the virus/hacking during the fall of the 13 colonies. The Cylons were not expecting resistance, so they didn't need a battlegroup, only a light cover for its fighters while they went around and blew stuff up. And as shown in The Plan, they ravaged an entire civilization's worth of fleet quite easily when used in that role. They are the ultimate surprise attack light carriers.

However, that is also why they suck so damn much at hunting an obsolete, beaten up, undermanned Battlestar and its troupe; it's like trying to use an aegis cruiser to sink a transport convoy protected by a battleship that can launch an airgroup. It took four to almost get the Galactica (and it even managed to remain quite operational after that), Pegasus can fend off three of them without receiving heavy damage, I think the only reason the one at Ragnar was that much of a problem for Galactica was because it was literally the first planned and coordinated operation of the ragtag air wing (and even then, it came out basically unscathed), Pegasus will annihilate them in one vs one combat, and more than one Battlestar vs one Basestar is a high tonnage gang rape. If it wasn't for the Raiders being such nasty little pieces of work, Adama would have probably been able to retake the entire colonies within a week.

The old saucer types from the first war... well, they fare much, much better. Just ask the Columbia - but I'll shut up now.

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She won't be the last one to go this season. :)

I wonder about Hot Dog...I went to high school with the actor (never spoke to him, though...and no, I never met his dad, unfortunately), so I feel an attachment to the character that is completely unjustified by the amount of screentime he gets.

But let's face it...the guy seems eminently expendable.

There's also the prophecy the Roslin won't make it to earth...

(Just thinking aloud...please don't answer any of this... :) )

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Now, "The Eye of Jupiter"...THAT was a damn good episode.

When they get to a crisis point, they really like to pile on as many crises as possible, don't they?

Before they found the Temple of Five (which, I assume, has some kind of connection to the Final Five), though, I was feeling bad for the planet. The title card that came up just read "ALGAE PLANET." Now what kind of name is that, I ask you? It looks MUCH more inviting than New Caprica (well, except for the sun about to go supernova, that is), and it doesn't even warrant a name? "New Geminon"? "New Picon"? Nothing?

On a completely unrelated note, I like Boomer's white suede jacket.

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