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Aircraft Vs Thread 5


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T-50 finally got a paint job. Looks like that rendering Saturn released all those years ago was pretty accurate after all.

Yeah Carlo hates the F-35, but he does raise some valid points. I still love his comparison of the F-35 to the THUD.

What bugs me about that is he discounts body lift on the F-35 to make that comparison, while wanking the F-22 and T-50 both of which derive a ton lift from their bodies. I guess it only counts when you like the plane you're looking at.

As for some REAL F-23 porn, these have been posted at Secret Projects for the last year or so. Unfortunately it doesn't illustrate the number of AIM-9's or 120's or how exactly they would have been mounted, but it looks like the AMRAAM bay is probably deeper then the F-22's main weapons bay and probably would have been capable of carrying larger weapons. Note the hidden lines for a possible IR sensor. :)

Deeper but narrower You could probably carry 2 2,000 lb JDAMs in there instead of the Raptor's 1,000 pounders, but there'd be no room to carry the 2 AMRAAMs along side them without turning on the no clipping cheat I talked about.

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T-50 finally got a paint job. Looks like that rendering Saturn released all those years ago was pretty accurate after all.

where did you get that, something just looks... off about it. the markings (51 on the nose, intake warning etc...) look strange, kind of distorted and crooked. it almost looks like they just photo shopped the colors and markings onto the photos from the test flight.

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Hint: take a look at the album owner's name. :D

yes, but I assume he didn't take the picture himself. ;) (and if you're implying something different, then you lost me. :mellow: )

Edited by anime52k8
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Ok, here's a more blatant hint:

Nied has frequently used his computer to repaint valk drawings etc into other schemes here.

I wish I were that good! This came from the Secretprojects forum where I occasionally lurk. I'm hosting it because of the way they handle attachments, but you can find a smaller version at Aviation Week's site. And yes it appears to be legitimate.

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This Tony Chung guy seems to have a few. How'd he manage to get into the cockpit of PAV 1?

I don't know if those pictures of the cockpit were taken during the ATF flyoff or when the aircraft was being restored at Wright Patterson. But still there aren't too many pictures of either YF-23's cockpits especially from the early 90's.

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What would have happened if the Hook had not slipped off?

It looks like it never even touched the deck so the hook never slipped off so much as it never caught in the first place. I imagine if it had caught you be looking at a bunch of blown tires, likely a collapsed landing gear and maybe even enough structural damage to the plane to make it a write off.

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It looks like it never even touched the deck so the hook never slipped off so much as it never caught in the first place. I imagine if it had caught you be looking at a bunch of blown tires, likely a collapsed landing gear and maybe even enough structural damage to the plane to make it a write off.

How about the pilot's spine?

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How about the pilot's spine?

I doubt the G forces involved would be any worse than the ones the pilot would experience while ejecting.

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Steven Coonts had it happen to Jake Grafton in his book the intruders they are called by him maybe all aviators "In-Flight Engagements" in the book he blew all the hydrolics in the landing gears and some of the electronics in the cocpit. the next time the plane flew one of the boxes fell out of the instrument panel and pushed on the stick causing grafton to not be able to control the aircraft after the cat shot and eject

Edited by buddhafabio
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Another interesting and lengthy article on the PAK-FA, although quite biased (very pro PAK-FA and F-22 and very anti F-35).

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2010-01.html

"Detailed strategic analysis indicates that the only viable strategic survival strategy now remaining for the United States is to terminate the Joint Strike Fighter program immediately, redirect freed funding to further develop the F-22 Raptor, and employ variants of the F-22 aircraft as the primary fighter aircraft for all United States and Allied TACAIR needs."

Music to my ears. I'm dubious about his analysis, though I would love to see that alternative come about instead. His most questionable premise IMO is some other country putting up 400 x SU-35's.

The PAK-FA looks cool and hopefully will lead to more F-22 but the Russians only plan 200 of these things with another 250 to India right? I'll be really surprised if the Russians meet that number. If they do, I'd like to see 2x that many F-22. All of his analysis seem to center on the USAF... what is the US Navy's plan? Stay with Super Bugs indefinitely?

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Friend sent me this link with these cool Boneyard pics.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8530165.stm

I'd love to visit there.

Graham

AMARC is a cool place to visit, but unless you are there on official business you will be on a tour bus the entire time. The Pima Air Museum right next door gets a lot of its planes from there though and is probably the closest you will get to walking through the boneyard itself.

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AMARC is a cool place to visit, but unless you are there on official business you will be on a tour bus the entire time. The Pima Air Museum right next door gets a lot of its planes from there though and is probably the closest you will get to walking through the boneyard itself.
i would only be satisfied if i had my own golf cart. hell, i love going through car junk yards.
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"Detailed strategic analysis indicates that the only viable strategic survival strategy now remaining for the United States is to terminate the Joint Strike Fighter program immediately, redirect freed funding to further develop the F-22 Raptor, and employ variants of the F-22 aircraft as the primary fighter aircraft for all United States and Allied TACAIR needs."

Music to my ears. I'm dubious about his analysis, though I would love to see that alternative come about instead. His most questionable premise IMO is some other country putting up 400 x SU-35's.

The PAK-FA looks cool and hopefully will lead to more F-22 but the Russians only plan 200 of these things with another 250 to India right? I'll be really surprised if the Russians meet that number. If they do, I'd like to see 2x that many F-22. All of his analysis seem to center on the USAF... what is the US Navy's plan? Stay with Super Bugs indefinitely?

Mr Kopp is convinced that all that would be required to make the F-22 a carrier capable fighter would be bigger landing gear struts and welding some small fins to the nose gear doors. That should give you an idea of how believable the rest of his analysis is. The Russians aren't likely to be able to field more than 150 PAK-FAs, meaning in a stand up fight the Raptor would have a quantitative advantage to go along with it's qualitative one (that's ignoring the fact that any direct conflict between Russia and the US would quickly devolve to a Nuclear exchange that would make the use of either aircraft moot). India probably will end up buying the full planed amount of two seat PAK-FAs but those aircraft are more likely to end up fighting along side the Raptor or JSF than against them (India is an ally that grows ever closer to the US as time goes on).

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The rarest YF-23/F-23 pictures are those showing its cockpit display layout.

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D I may have something for you here soon, my source needs to see if THESE (plural) are cleared for release.

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Mr Kopp is convinced that all that would be required to make the F-22 a carrier capable fighter would be bigger landing gear struts and welding some small fins to the nose gear doors. That should give you an idea of how believable the rest of his analysis is. The Russians aren't likely to be able to field more than 150 PAK-FAs, meaning in a stand up fight the Raptor would have a quantitative advantage to go along with it's qualitative one (that's ignoring the fact that any direct conflict between Russia and the US would quickly devolve to a Nuclear exchange that would make the use of either aircraft moot). India probably will end up buying the full planed amount of two seat PAK-FAs but those aircraft are more likely to end up fighting along side the Raptor or JSF than against them (India is an ally that grows ever closer to the US as time goes on).

At the same time, the PAKFA would be a new aircraft while the F-22 airframes would be at least 5 to 10 years old. Would the USAF be able to maintain aircraft availability rates at high enough levels to provide that quantitative advantage? The 95%+ availability rates for the F-15 and -16 in GW1 came about partly because non-mission capable aircraft deployed in the war could be replaced from a much larger fleet afterall.

Also, India is much closer to the Russians than they are to the US, historically. We have a common adversary in China, but there are some situations over which we differ i.e. Pakistan.

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Heres an odd question - looking at pictures of Russian aircraft with their wheels down, it seems that many of them have green inner rims. The Indian Navy variant of the MiG-29 has them as well. I was just curious if there was a particular reason or is it "just one of those things"...

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At the same time, the PAKFA would be a new aircraft while the F-22 airframes would be at least 5 to 10 years old. Would the USAF be able to maintain aircraft availability rates at high enough levels to provide that quantitative advantage? The 95%+ availability rates for the F-15 and -16 in GW1 came about partly because non-mission capable aircraft deployed in the war could be replaced from a much larger fleet afterall.

The 187 number includes strategic reserves for just that situation, and the Russians will have to deal with the same issues (newer aircraft generally have to deal with teething issues that lower MC rates). But again this whole argument is moot since any direct conflict between the US and Russia would go Nuclear very quickly, turning both fleets into so much air pollution.

Also, India is much closer to the Russians than they are to the US, historically. We have a common adversary in China, but there are some situations over which we differ i.e. Pakistan.

Oh please. Three out of five of the next major purchases for their air force are for going to the US (P-8, C-130J, and C-17) while another one has two US built designs competing for it (F/A-18F, and F-16I for the MMCA competition), there's even rumors the Indians want to buy F-35Bs or F-35Cs for their carriers. In addition to the Cope India exercises the IAF is now a regular participant in Red Flag. India was close to Russia 25 years ago but they've moved quite a bit of distance since then.

Edited by Nied
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"Detailed strategic analysis indicates that the only viable strategic survival strategy now remaining for the United States is to terminate the Joint Strike Fighter program immediately, redirect freed funding to further develop the F-22 Raptor, and employ variants of the F-22 aircraft as the primary fighter aircraft for all United States and Allied TACAIR needs."

Music to my ears. I'm dubious about his analysis, though I would love to see that alternative come about instead. His most questionable premise IMO is some other country putting up 400 x SU-35's.

The PAK-FA looks cool and hopefully will lead to more F-22 but the Russians only plan 200 of these things with another 250 to India right? I'll be really surprised if the Russians meet that number. If they do, I'd like to see 2x that many F-22. All of his analysis seem to center on the USAF... what is the US Navy's plan? Stay with Super Bugs indefinitely?

Simple: the X-47. I suspect that by 2020ish you'll start seeing the first USN UAV squadrons operating from carrier decks. Thats where all the budget for development is going.

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Oh please. Three out of five of the next major purchases for their air force are for going to the US (P-8, C-130J, and C-17) while another one has two US built designs competing for it (F/A-18F, and F-16I for the MMCA competition), there's even rumors the Indians want to buy F-35Bs or F-35Cs for their carriers. In addition to the Cope India exercises the IAF is now a regular participant in Red Flag. India was close to Russia 25 years ago but they've moved quite a bit of distance since then.

Its probably better than that. Since 2000 there has been a sustained effort by successive administrations to improve relations between the two countries. Part of it was that Washington saw India as a ideological ally as a democracy in a region it has a large interest in. There are significant economic linkages with tech and aerospace companies. The nuclear agreement between the two countries illustrates just how deep the new relationship.

Russia was a traditional ally because of communism, but thats really gone to the wayside. It still buys equipment from Russia, but its doubtful that the relationship is anywhere as close as it is with the United States.

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Doesn't discount the fact that the US and India have opposing interests over the Pakistan. US and India just have some common interests now that China is rising. You will note that despite buying lots of US equipment they are also maintaining their close ties with Russia-- the PAK FA is a good example of that, if you want to talk about economic linkages between tech and aerospace companies.

Moving on-- how far along the developmental path is the X-47 anyway? Has it done actual carrier landings yet?

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