eugimon Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 ah, that's a very good point Noyhauser. I was referring more to America being stationed in Japan and being expected to take the brunt of any real threat to her. But yeah, america's refusal to sell the F-22 to even our most trusted ally nations is pretty interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-ZeroOne Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 I'm curious as to why Japan don't have anything more hi tech. I mean, they have all the cool new gadgets and electronics. They should've already have a YF-21 replica fighter. Lol. At the time of introduction, the F-2 was pretty high-tech - it had a Japanese developed AESA radar, AFAIK one of the first in service in the world. However, along with other modifications to the aircraft, this made the F-2 very expensive compared to the F-16 it was based on and the radar has initially proved unreliable in service. Personally, I hope the Japanese will buy the Typhoon, as then we might get some spare cash to spend on some additional Type-45 destroyers and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante74 Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Well Japan is in the market to get a new fighter to replace its aging F-4js... but its been putting off the decision for over a decade. The Air Force hasn't been a major priority for Japan in the past ten years, besides the ongoing F-2 and the Tanker project. First is the overall stagnant growth in Japanese economy, which has limited the government's ability to purchase big ticket items. Second, the Japanese military is facing a different drain on its budget: Operational missions. For the first time, the Defense Ministry needs to balance paying for combat operations in the Indian ocean and elsewhere with procurement. Finally, the airforce hasn't been the target of recapitalization to the extent the Navy has. The Navy is getting a whole slew of helicopter destroyers (And their helix), new destroyers and submarines. Moreover the government has invested heavily into Theater and National missile defence programs, which has put an even greater strain on the procurement budget. So for ten years the airforce has been forced to make do with the F-2 program. Since the F-4 decision can't be put off anymore, they are now shopping around for a replacement. With Congress refusing to sell the F-22 to Japan, it looks as if the Eurofighter might come into being as the next generation of Japan's air defence fighters. I gotta ask; Do you work at Jane's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 .. but you'd want the manouverability if you have some young hotshot on your six and he's revving up his vulcan. Bah! Just drop landing gear and flaps, he'll shoot right by into your gunsight..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyhauser Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 ah, that's a very good point Noyhauser. I was referring more to America being stationed in Japan and being expected to take the brunt of any real threat to her. But yeah, america's refusal to sell the F-22 to even our most trusted ally nations is pretty interesting. I posted above a financial times article on the subject that gives a fairly good overview on the situation. I gotta ask; Do you work at Jane's? No but I work for a different academic outfit that does somewhat similar work, just not as big or focused on military affairs as Janes is. JSDF is a pet interest of mine though, so I keep an eye on it using the resources we have. If you ever get a chance to flip through the yearly IISS Military Balance, do so (at a university), you'll find it an really interesting publication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-19 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Bah! Just drop landing gear and flaps, he'll shoot right by into your gunsight..... This raises a guns question to me: How close do modern day fighters get before firing their guns? I play a ton of IL-2, and I usually have mine set for 200 meters, but I have no clue as to how close an F-16 would get to a MiG-29 before giving it a lead shower... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyrox Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 This raises a guns question to me: How close do modern day fighters get before firing their guns? I play a ton of IL-2, and I usually have mine set for 200 meters, but I have no clue as to how close an F-16 would get to a MiG-29 before giving it a lead shower... With most modern fighters having just one gun, there is no convergence to worry about. So as long as you are in killing range, give it a shot. The killing range on modern aircraft cannon is far longer than the range at which most pilots are going to be able to hit anything as fast and maneuverable as a modern fighter anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-19 Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 With most modern fighters having just one gun, there is no convergence to worry about. So as long as you are in killing range, give it a shot. The killing range on modern aircraft cannon is far longer than the range at which most pilots are going to be able to hit anything as fast and maneuverable as a modern fighter anyway. Technically, that's incorrect. There still is convergence, but just without multiple guns. So basically, we're talking more than 200 meters... So more like 500 meters to an extreme kilometer gunnery range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx7725 Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 (edited) Hitting the opponent with one round isn't a problem, like Phyrox says, just give it a shot. The problem is hitting the opponent with enough rounds to bring him down, and at the speeds the birds are moving, it still pays to get as close as you can before filling the space he is going to occupy with as much lead as you can muster. Edited July 26, 2008 by Lynx7725 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermillion01 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 I'm sure most of you will have seen this already but for those that haven't.... its pretty awsome. Red Bull heicopter showing off its no Lynx, but its pretty impressive nonetheless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-ZeroOne Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 (edited) Nope, it ain't a Lynx... Blue Thunder taught me that helicopters can't do that...! Edited July 28, 2008 by F-ZeroOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermillion01 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Nope, it ain't a Lynx... Blue Thunder taught me that helicopters can't do that...! And i almost added the obligatory Blue Thunder quote too....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-ZeroOne Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Today, 4th August, is the 70th anniversary of the entry into RAF service of the Supermarine Spitfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindem Herz Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Achtung, Spitfire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-ZeroOne Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 (edited) ...when it really should have been "Achtung, Hurricane!" [1]. Poor old Hurricanes, they get no love. Its said that many Luftwaffe pilots who were shot down by them would always claim they were actually shot down by Spitfires, as Hurricanes just weren't sexy enough. Mind you, its always easy to see why... [1] There were more Hurricanes than Spitfires (approx twice as many) serving in the Battle of Britain, and nearly as many arguments about it. If the Spitfires incredibly complicated production problems could have been sorted out sooner, it might have been different. on the other hand, the Hurricane was easier to repair by fitters more familiar with wood and fabric construction, but conversely also more prone to damage from fire as a result. Hurricanes were more stable gun platforms, but the Spitfires speed and agility gave it an edge in fighter to fighter combat. And on and on... Edited August 4, 2008 by F-ZeroOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 It's not often you see the Su-25 in action, but, well, just watch the news. ::edit:: Dang, Su-24's as well, thought I saw one earlier but now I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coota0 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 It's interesting in a perverse kind of way to watch the news to see the attack aircraft. But I'm doing it too. Did anyone hear how the Georgians accomplished their alleged shootdown of the Russian aircraft? I looked around the net but didn't see anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyhauser Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 It's interesting in a perverse kind of way to watch the news to see the attack aircraft. But I'm doing it too. Did anyone hear how the Georgians accomplished their alleged shootdown of the Russian aircraft? I looked around the net but didn't see anything. Trust me, right now people aren't really interested how they shot down the aircraft, but that they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Russia says they lost a Su-25 and Tu-22 (presumably a Tu-22M), and is using Flankers to secure the airspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOTUS Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 The killing range on modern aircraft cannon is far longer than the range at which most pilots are going to be able to hit anything as fast and maneuverable as a modern fighter anyway. I'm quite sure there's a crusty old F14 pilot by the name of 'hoser' that would disagree with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Leader Posted August 13, 2008 Author Share Posted August 13, 2008 Offutt Air Show this weekend! It's been 22 years since I attended my first one (the Blue Angels were still flying their A-4's). I have attended every single one since. (There was no show in 1994 and 2006 due to the runway being repaved). Some of the things I am looking forward to include seeing an F-22 and a CV-22 Osprey in person for the first time. Once again our rocket club will have a display there and depeneding on how construction is going, some of the guys in our group may have their 60% scale Pershing II on display; it will be flying down at LDRS 27 in less then 3 weeks. I recently posted a whole slew of pictures from the last 5 shows up on Facebook. I will share those soon. Also I am looking into getting on the base to see the arrival of the F-22 so we'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalvasflam Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Russia says they lost a Su-25 and Tu-22 (presumably a Tu-22M), and is using Flankers to secure the airspace. Thought the Russian side of the ledger is now up to at least 3 Su-25, and a single Backfire. I wonder what the losses for the Georgians were. I am actually a little surprised at how effective the Georgian air defenses are, considering that the Russians should know those systems inside out. One other thing that is of interest, I wonder how many attack choppers the Russians deployed, the country seem to be pretty good for that type of operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coota0 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 From what I've heard, the Georgian air force consisted of 7 or 8 SU-25s and a handfull of Hinds and Hips. No fighters to speak of, but their air defense was standard rooskie studd, SA-6, SA-9, SA-13s and their manpads, as well as ZSUs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyhauser Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 (edited) From what I've heard, the Georgian air force consisted of 7 or 8 SU-25s and a handfull of Hinds and Hips. No fighters to speak of, but their air defense was standard rooskie studd, SA-6, SA-9, SA-13s and their manpads, as well as ZSUs. This article from the NY Times might shed a bit of light on the subject. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/world/eu...17military.html Also this is the present listing for the Georgian AD in the Database. AD • SP SA-13 Gopher AD • 75 - SA-2 Guideline towed/SA-3 Goa/ SA-4 Ganef SP/SA-5 Gammon static MANPAD SA-7 Grail: 150 effective. Edited August 16, 2008 by Noyhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Leader Posted August 19, 2008 Author Share Posted August 19, 2008 Here's a few samples of some of the pictures I took over the weekend... 678 total! Unfortunately I don't think the Osprey showed up (unless it was on static display on Sunday), but they had TWO F-22's from Tyndall AFB there which was pretty cool. Once I get all my pictures up, I'll share the links to each gallery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Leader Posted August 19, 2008 Author Share Posted August 19, 2008 A few more Raptor pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhafabio Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 cool.... what sucks is st.louis county lost its airshow. do to politicals deciding to kill it. so nothing for me this year.... at least i went to af museum though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Gaaaaaawwwwwdddd, even as "stupid TSA stories" go, this one's bad: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Nine American Eagle airplanes were grounded Tuesday after a TSA inspector, conducting an overnight security check, used sensitive instrument probes to climb onto the parked aircraft at Chicago's O'Hare Airport, aviation sources tell ABCNews.com. At least forty regional commuter flights were delayed throughout the day, according to American Airlines. "We think it's an unfortunate situation," American airlines spokesperson Mary Frances told ABCNews.com. The TSA agent, as part of spot inspection of aircraft security, climbed onto the parked aircraft using control sensors mounted on the fuselage as handholds, according to a TSA official in Chicago, Elio Montenegro. "Our inspector was following routine procedure for securing the aircraft that were on the tarmac," Montenegro told ABCNews.com. The TSA agent was attempting to determine if someone could break into a parked aircraft, according to Montenegro. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< This is why people who couldn't get a job at MickeyD's and don't know the SLIGHTEST thing about aviation, shouldn't be allowed to mess with multi-million-dollar aircraft. And I'm betting replacement pitot probes etc for the SAAB 340 aren't that easy to come by nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyhauser Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Thought you guys might be interested in this... UK tries to offload Typhoon fighters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vifam7 Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Gaaaaaawwwwwdddd, even as "stupid TSA stories" go, this one's bad: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Nine American Eagle airplanes were grounded Tuesday after a TSA inspector, conducting an overnight security check, used sensitive instrument probes to climb onto the parked aircraft at Chicago's O'Hare Airport, aviation sources tell ABCNews.com. At least forty regional commuter flights were delayed throughout the day, according to American Airlines. "We think it's an unfortunate situation," American airlines spokesperson Mary Frances told ABCNews.com. The TSA agent, as part of spot inspection of aircraft security, climbed onto the parked aircraft using control sensors mounted on the fuselage as handholds, according to a TSA official in Chicago, Elio Montenegro. "Our inspector was following routine procedure for securing the aircraft that were on the tarmac," Montenegro told ABCNews.com. The TSA agent was attempting to determine if someone could break into a parked aircraft, according to Montenegro. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< This is why people who couldn't get a job at MickeyD's and don't know the SLIGHTEST thing about aviation, shouldn't be allowed to mess with multi-million-dollar aircraft. And I'm betting replacing pitot probes etc for the SAAB 340 aren't that easy to come by nowadays. Just another government agency screwing things up, wasting our money, and creating headaches. So what else is new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Leader Posted August 21, 2008 Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 cool.... what sucks is st.louis county lost its airshow. do to politicals deciding to kill it. so nothing for me this year.... at least i went to af museum though Envious that you got to go to Dayton! Regarding the air show you're talking about, was that an Air Force run event or something that was non military? I know there's an Air Force base south and east from St. Louis... that's where my sister and her family are at right now. As for more Offutt air show pictures, I got about another 60+ to post online tonight then I'll be ready to do more sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-ZeroOne Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 (edited) Thought you guys might be interested in this... UK tries to offload Typhoon fighters The irony of these agreements is that - like Concorde - they were originally created by us, in case our European cousins got cold feet and decided to spend the money on high speed train networks or weekly rubbish collections or something equally useless... Instead, they often come back to bite us in the ars - posterior. I've kind of got mixed feelings about this. I'd love to see Typhoons in Japanese service, but possibly not at the expense of ones with RAF roundels on. Guess it might improve the chances of getting a decent air-to-surface missile on a Typhoon for the next Ace Combat game though... Edited August 21, 2008 by F-ZeroOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-ZeroOne Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 (edited) I've just seen an article on this by someone who seems to be "in the know", and they were pretty scathing about this story - one theory is that the MoD (Ministry of Defence) is looking for a price cut and spreading scare stories about cancellations to force the issue a bit... Edited August 21, 2008 by F-ZeroOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orguss01 Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 (edited) This has prob been covered but China has Macross ejector seat.. Imout!!!!!....WEeeeee......!!! from..CHinese air power.. China aint no joke, that Badger is a prtty mean bird..6 LrCM's.... I was checking out their AWACS..Chinese survl birds... fat lil bastid......... Some one is gonna get alot of pushups for this..from the galleries. LOL.....some Gomer jumped up and pulled down on the nose... that guy on the right in the cap"n"coat is about to chew some asssss....... Edited August 21, 2008 by orguss01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight26 Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 This has prob been covered but China has Macross ejector seat.. Imout!!!!!....WEeeeee......!!! from..CHinese air power.. China aint no joke, that Badger is a prtty mean bird..6 LrCM's.... I was checking out their AWACS..Chinese survl birds... fat lil bastid......... Some one is gonna get alot of pushups for this..from the galleries. LOL.....some Gomer jumped up and pulled down on the nose... that guy on the right in the cap"n"coat is about to chew some asssss....... Macross Ejector seat, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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