azrael Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Welcome to the Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread Guildlines Please limit your discussion of mecha and technology to this thread. This thread is not for discussing individual episodes or the story. Do not cross post. Please limit your discussion to mecha and technology seen in Macross F. Do not post any links to episodes or full soundtracks anywhere in the forum. This thread contains spoilers about mecha. Don't say we didn't warn you. Translation Tools: http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/ http://tool.nifty.com/globalgate/ http://linear.mv.com/cgi-bin/j-e/sjis/dict http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi Image hosting services Flickr ImageShack Photobucket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrono Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Now that we've seen that Macross has gravity control refined enough for public consumption would it be to far reaching to claim that the various fighters now have gravity control as well? Does Humanity in macross have consumer level Organic Tech? (see Ranka's 'phone') Has anyone figured out the name & class of this ship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 I don't believe VFs have gravity control since the pilot is usually sitting and there's very little room to stand. I don't even know if Ranka's phone is living...Maybe a virtual pet phone but I don't know if it's organic.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I figure that gravity control would also put extra strain on the pilot during those high g maneuvers. It seems like it would be a superfluous system. I wonder what caliber gun Guillame was using when he ejected from the VF-25, and if it was meant to be anti-personnel or be used as a last resort against enemy mecha after having ejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 I wonder what caliber gun Guillame was using when he ejected from the VF-25, and if it was meant to be anti-personnel or be used as a last resort against enemy mecha after having ejected. I'm guessing it is made for anti-personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrono Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I figure that gravity control would also put extra strain on the pilot during those high g maneuvers. It seems like it would be a superfluous system. How would a system that could remove g forces from the pilot put any extra strain on the pilot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I'm guessing it is made for anti-personnel. Mighty big gun for anti-personnel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briscojr84 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Now that we've seen that Macross has gravity control refined enough for public consumption would it be to far reaching to claim that the various fighters now have gravity control as well? Does Humanity in macross have consumer level Organic Tech? (see Ranka's 'phone') Has anyone figured out the name & class of this ship? The design looks kinda outdated so possibly a Haruna-class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I think of gravity control in terms of technology that causes gravity, not removes it. Hey, if it can remove gravity, awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strumvogel Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I'm guessing it is made for anti-personnel. I also doubt it's supposed to be an offensive weapon, despite it's size, just a defensive one. It's not unlike the military pilots of today who have a hangun as part of their kit when they eject. Some helicopter pilots have submachine guns but's mainly due to the fact they have more room to store a weapon of that size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strumvogel Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 How would a system that could remove g forces from the pilot put any extra strain on the pilot? I think what you're thinking of is the Inertia Canceller. That thing that Guld had maxed out in Macross + before going on his final run against the Ghost. Maybe it does have something to do gravity control but I've never had anyone explain to me how the inertial canceller works so I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Mighty big gun for anti-personnel! I also doubt it's supposed to be an offensive weapon, despite it's size, just a defensive one. It's not unlike the military pilots of today who have a hangun as part of their kit when they eject. Some helicopter pilots have submachine guns but's mainly due to the fact they have more room to store a weapon of that size. It's probably made for the Gears system. And the Gears system is an exo-suit, so why not take advantage of the support and give the pilot a bigger gun with more ammo. It may have some anti-armor munitions, but once the pilot leaves the cockpit, he/she is just a person with a gun. You don't need a tank to take out a single person. I would think of it as a oversized PDW. It gives the pilot (who isn't exactly front-line) better range and armor penetration but the pilot isn't going to take on an entire army with that thing. Imagine if he was shooting that bug with a pistol or SMG... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scream Man Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Also, I assume that the exo-suit has a way of being used in space, possibly something that coems out of the cockpit, or something worn when a pilot is doing space work. That could mean the gun is designed as a basic fighter stopper, but was just ineffective against the bugs. As for Rankas phone, I suspect its just a machine that looks organic. It doesnt move indepoendantly or anything. Inertia dampeners would be a hinderance to a pilot i would think. It would be like playing a video game, you wouldnt feel a part of the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grss1982 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Mighty big gun for anti-personnel! Indeed. This might seem like blasphemy, but was'nt that rifle reminiscent of the M41A? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Actually now that you mention it, it did seem kind of like the M41A or the beretta in Starship Troopers. It does seem to be oversized for a PDW. Those gears exo suits sure beat the hell out of those ejectable cockpits of the VF-11Cs... I'm sure the cockpits have a longer oxygen supply, but considering these mecha-bugs seem less concerned with draining spiritia as they are in killkillkill, I'd sure take the exo suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 How would a system that could remove g forces from the pilot put any extra strain on the pilot? I think what you're thinking of is the Inertia Canceller. That thing that Guld had maxed out in Macross + before going on his final run against the Ghost. Maybe it does have something to do gravity control but I've never had anyone explain to me how the inertial canceller works so I don't know. Yeah, that would be the Inertia Canceller. Removing gravity on a pilot doesn't remove the inertia he feels when doing g-defying turns. At least up to Macross Plus, it would seem the inertia canceller is limited as Isamu still had to do the "neck straining thing" when he does loops and those quick turns. The most crazy case of that neck straining thing is seeen in M3 OP where max and miria battle a squad of rogue zentraedis and dodging missiles. They were even using their legs and bodies! I think most ppl's necks would've broke. hahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 The design looks kinda outdated so possibly a Haruna-class. Well, its not the Algenicus class, so its probably Haruna or a new class of ship. Did anyone also notice the turret upgrade on the Bolognese stealth frigate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyhauser Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Yeah, that would be the Inertia Canceller. Removing gravity on a pilot doesn't remove the inertia he feels when doing g-defying turns. At least up to Macross Plus, it would seem the inertia canceller is limited as Isamu still had to do the "neck straining thing" when he does loops and those quick turns. The most crazy case of that neck straining thing is seeen in M3 OP where max and miria battle a squad of rogue zentraedis and dodging missiles. They were even using their legs and bodies! I think most ppl's necks would've broke. hahaha. You might want to read the description of the VF-15 from the compendium. http://macross.anime.net/mecha/united_nati...vf15/index.html I don't think its an "inertia canceller" rather a Anti-G boost system. I think its physically impossible for a Inertia canceller to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrossvf-1msx Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well, its not the Algenicus class, so its probably Haruna or a new class of ship. Did anyone also notice the turret upgrade on the Bolognese stealth frigate? I am willing to bet it BC of Battlestar Galactica lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowlightman Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I am willing to bet it BC of Battlestar Galactica lol Looks more reminiscent of Yamato or Gundam, to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrossvf-1msx Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well, its not the Algenicus class, so its probably Haruna or a new class of ship. Did anyone also notice the turret upgrade on the Bolognese stealth frigate? I am willing to bet it BC of Battlestar Galactica lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 You might want to read the description of the VF-15 from the compendium. http://macross.anime.net/mecha/united_nati...vf15/index.html I don't think its an "inertia canceller" rather a Anti-G boost system. I think its physically impossible for a Inertia canceller to exist. That's a rather short description....and its not an inertia canceller. The YF-21 has what the compendium quotes: "Quaedluun-Rau battle suit's special inertia vector control system" which I assume is some hi-tech inertia canceller or at least something that makes it able to turn very fast without adversely affecting the pilot. And yes inertia cancellers are now still the stuff of sci-fi. But this is overtechnology we're talking about here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsain Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 (edited) Mighty big gun for anti-personnel! Zentraedi personnel. Seriously, though, I bet that's probably it. On the gravity control front, you easily see a guy on a hoverboard (from Mattel!) in the establishing shot of the school. At this point, limited gravity control is definitely consumer-level tech. I imagine the X-Gears are augmented by it as well, because those suits do not look like they'd provide enough lift, even if they're in a .7G environment. In a VF cockpit, I'm sure that such a system, acting along a vector counter to the G-forces experienced from maneuvers, would make the crazy aerobatics we see in Macross actually surviveable. Edited January 4, 2008 by Kelsain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyhauser Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 That's a rather short description....and its not an inertia canceller. The YF-21 has what the compendium quotes: "Quaedluun-Rau battle suit's special inertia vector control system" which I assume is some hi-tech inertia canceller or at least something that makes it able to turn very fast without adversely affecting the pilot. And yes inertia cancellers are now still the stuff of sci-fi. But this is overtechnology we're talking about here. The Inertia vector control system is not an inertia counterer. Its what it is: a control system for the vehicle itself that makes it more maneuverable. FLYING CONTROLS: Queadlunn-Rau relies almost exclusively on vernier thrusters for flying controls. Quimeliquola special inertia vector control system. Also my first post might have came off as being a tad negative... It wasn't intended to be as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacyAce2012 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I was impressed with the VF-25. I take it that it was sporting a 2059 version of the FAST Packs? I'm also guessing that they were brand-spanking new, judging from the pretty-boy's reaction (I can't remember the kid in the exo-suit's name at the moment). It makes me wonder why a PMC had these goodies, while the regular UNS pilots were buzzing around in what appears to be nothing more than upgraded VF-17s. I also found it amusing that the defense forces were using wheeled AFVs against these "bug" creatures. I'll bet that someone was regretting the phasing out of Destroids decades earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyhauser Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Zentraedi personnel. Seriously, though, I bet that's probably it. On the gravity control front, you easily see a guy on a hoverboard (from Mattel!) in the establishing shot of the school. At this point, limited gravity control is definitely consumer-level tech. I imagine the X-Gears are augmented by it as well, because those suits do not look like they'd provide enough lift, even if they're in a .7G environment. In a VF cockpit, I'm sure that such a system, acting along a vector counter to the G-forces experienced from maneuvers, would make the crazy aerobatics we see in Macross actually surviveable. I don't think any of the acrobatics in Macross have ever been realistic... I mean watch the F-14 in Macross Zero, even with "overtechnology" engines, thats basically impossible. The VF-171 fight looks basically like the VF-0 vs SV-51 battles from Zero, despite 50 years difference... and they certainly didn't have G-dampers then. I really just chalk this up to artistic license. In comparison, the underlying universe has been pretty well sketched out and somewhat realistically portrayed. While yes there is "anti-gravity" technology, how would that operate within a gravity-less environment to me seems pretty unrealistic. Now I might be wrong... but wouldn't that entail creating force by pushing against the airframe itself to create anti gravity... that creates a force opposite direction... IE less maneuverability/major stress on the airframe. My physics my be wrong on this but I think that would be implications of applying the "antigravity" technology as an inertial damper. Now I'm sure that "over-technology" could solve this, but then I feel the series is getting away from its somewhat realistic roots. I mean yes there are some new technologies like folding, but its been believable up until this point, and this would get away from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyhauser Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I'm also guessing that they were brand-spanking new, judging from the pretty-boy's reaction (I can't remember the kid in the exo-suit's name at the moment). It makes me wonder why a PMC had these goodies, while the regular UNS pilots were buzzing around in what appears to be nothing more than upgraded VF-17s. I also found it amusing that the defense forces were using wheeled AFVs against these "bug" creatures. I'll bet that someone was regretting the phasing out of Destroids decades earlier. I posted this elsewhere but I think it can be plausibly explained by economy. If you don't mind I'll just copy and paste my previous post... I'm a bit too lazy to rewrite it http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?show...4559&st=580 While it was said the VF- 19 was supposed to be a replacement for the VF-11, it seemed ill suited for that role. Remember during Macross+ Milliard said that the 19 was supposed to be able to conduct precise raids in renegade territory: that seems to me to be more a special forces fighter's job, not your run of the mill cannon-fodder valk. While the YF-21 seemed to be wildly too expensive (morphing wings), I think the VF-19 probably was still too expensive for most colonies to construct except for leading squadrons like Diamond and Emerald in Macross 7. If there is one point I can't fault Kawamori, its that he's always made the macross universe believable in terms of the technology progression. While UNS can design all the next generation superfighters it wants (roughly one every decade) many colonies still use cheaper, simpler designs, like the VF-5000 in Zola, and the VF-17 in Macross Frontier. This also explains why we still see stryker type wheeled armored vehicles vs destroids: they are cheaper and do the job just as effectively as destroids. This thinking also might give an explanation why a private military company operates a bleeding edge fighter. Given the extreme costs of such vehicles it might make sense for some colonization fleets to contract out high end missions to private groups. These groups could move around to fleets that are more likely to call upon its services; ie where combat is more likely to occur. Maintaining high end squadrons (like Diamond and Emerald squadron) costs alot of money, especially if you're going to be relatively safe space where a fleet might not see combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrono Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well, its not the Algenicus class, so its probably Haruna or a new class of ship. I think that it's a Varauta inspired Cruiser because if you look at one of the Varauta designs and adapt it a little that's what you might get. Did anyone also notice the turret upgrade on the Bolognese stealth frigate? Yeah... I'm kinda feeling sick about how fugly they look. The cannons style are very bad idea though. Throwback designs on an space vessel is bad enough but designs that just don't belong together is something else. Square-ish cannons that were integrated instead of looking 'slapped on'. Would've been far better. I get the vibe that designer/creator and model builder didn't talk about the final design, and the director waved it threw as being 'ok'. ------- On another note.... The 'cadets' practice gear... some mind control brought over from M+??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 From what we have seen in the anime and manga so far, it appears the VF-171 is lacking the VF-17's shoulder mounted micro missile launchers. However, it looks like it may have a pair of micro missile launcher ports on the ventral surface (on both lower legs). See the attached scan from the manga and also the attached screen capture from the anime, showing the underside of the VF-171 just as it is detaching from the launch arm. The position of these launchers would make them impractical, not to mention down right dangerous to fire in Battroid and Gerwalk mode, as they are on the inner leg. The VF-171 may also have had the wrist and elbow beam guns deleated, as it appears to have streamlined fairings over the elbows, where the elbow gun would normally be on a VF-17. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I also found it amusing that the defense forces were using wheeled AFVs against these "bug" creatures. I'll bet that someone was regretting the phasing out of Destroids decades earlier. This was discussed before and I think the consensus was that both Destroids and tracked tanks would probably tear up the city streets too much. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 The Inertia vector control system is not an inertia counterer. Its what it is: a control system for the vehicle itself that makes it more maneuverable. Also my first post might have came off as being a tad negative... It wasn't intended to be as such. I got no proof of this but it would seem that maneuverability isn't much of an issue in Macross. Even the X-9 Ghost itself is mighty maneuverable and it doens't need the Q-rau inertia vector control whatchamacallit which led to my conclusion that the Q-rau's inertia doodad is supposed to give the maneuverability without making the pilot in the cockpit into tomato juice. But otherwise its not explicitly mentioned about inertia cancellers so I guess i'll be like you and chalk it up to artistic license like sounds in space. Nah didn't take it negatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrono Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 This thinking also might give an explanation why a private military company operates a bleeding edge fighter. I've never bought into the "private Military" idea. Because in M7 we see that the Military still had control over defense even though there was a normal Civilian police force. What M7 did was bring in the historical nation "Military Defense vs Civil Defense" which is something that is seen through Japanese history especially in the eras of 2-400 years ago. Basically a re-balancing of powers. So I view the SMS as merely the Civil form of today's SWAT team which helps to explain why the City 'Mayor' has a military adviser just like any other large city/state/country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 From what we have seen in the anime and manga so far, it appears the VF-171 is lacking the VF-17's shoulder mounted micro missile launchers. However, it looks like it may have a pair of micro missile launcher ports on the ventral surface (on both lower legs). See the attached scan from the manga and also the attached screen capture from the anime, showing the underside of the VF-171 just as it is detaching from the launch arm. The position of these launchers would make them impractical, not to mention down right dangerous to fire in Battroid and Gerwalk mode, as they are on the inner leg. The VF-171 may also have had the wrist and elbow beam guns deleated, as it appears to have streamlined fairings over the elbows, where the elbow gun would normally be on a VF-17. Graham Deleted elbow beam guns? But from the Shounen Ace manga we still can see the elbow lasers in Gerwalk mode. Ooh and didn't know it had wrist beam guns as well. Don't know if those things are micro missiles launchers though. I'm more curious on the gunpod's placement which is still a mystery to me since the VF-17. There was one scene where It apparently can fire in fighter mode and it seems to be stowed on the knees when it should be the side of the legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 There was one scene where It apparently can fire in fighter mode and it seems to be stowed on the knees when it should be the side of the legs. Are you referring to the VF-17 or VF-171? The VF-17 has always been able to fire it's gunpod in fighter mode. If you are talking about the VF-171, can you try to post a screen shot of the scene you are talking about. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Deleted elbow beam guns? But from the Shounen Ace manga we still can see the elbow lasers in Gerwalk mode. Ooh and didn't know it had wrist beam guns as well. You are right about the manga, we do see the elbow guns in gerwalk mode (attached pic). I guess the VF-171's streamlined elbow fairings open up to allow the guns to extend out. Regarding the VF-17's wrist guns, the Compendium says the following: - Two fixed medium-bore laser beam guns (each with two opposite-facing barrels, one retractable and traversable) mounted in front of vertical stabilizers in Fighter and GERWALK mode or in forearm section in Battroid mode I have always taken that to mean a barrel at the wrist and a barrel at the elbow (the retractable and traversable one). Also, although I don't have my artbooks in front of me now (I'm at work), I'm pretty sure that the wrist gun is labled as such. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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