Totoro242 Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Judging by the liner notes on the ADV boxed set it does seem it was the production company that pushed the idea of a transformable fighter - with the mechanical designers feeling somewhat less keen on the idea. They don't come out and directly say "We were told to do it because Macross had been a succes" but I do get a sense of a certain amount of that being in the air. (Although someone far more knowledgeable than me about GCM will no doubt be able to shed more light on the subject) Karl You are correct. Here is the quote by Shiji Aramaki: "Actually we tried to sell this to Takatoku, the sponsor for a program to take over after "Macross." We made a wooden model which could be transformed for the presentation. At that time, the producer told me, "Having only the transforming bike is kind of weak. Why don't you create a jet fighter version, too?" I thought, "If it has this much volume, it can be transformed". I drew robots and a fighter jet adequately and showed the sponsor. And they said, "Does it really transform? Why don't you show us a wooden model in ten days?" After we came back, Mr. Kakinuma and I had a tough time on setting up like, "This part comes here and the joint attaches here..." I asked someone I knew to make a big wooden model. That's the way the fighter jet form Legioss was made. But for some political reason, it didn't become the program after "Macross." Then we heard Gakken was interested in the plan and we had a presentation and finally the planning was set." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promethuem5 Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Wow...wonder where those wooden mock-ups are now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 You know what? I know everyone says how horrible the MPC Legioss/Aplha is, but I just got my first one today for real cheap, and aside from the fact that it needs new hands (one was already broken when I bought it) it really is a fun toy. I can see possibly replacing the shoulders with a new joint and trying to make a boll joint for the hips (a much bigger maybe) but I really like it and have been playing with it all afternoon... Dude, what in the crap, I had the EXACT same experience. Bought it for a friend for xmas since he had an old non-transforming one with a missing arm. Thought he'd get a kick out of a really nice version. IMHO the Legioss looks best in it's bot mode. Damn it looks tough all posed and ready to rumble. The MPC is nice looking just be VERY careful with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I've always felt very strongly that MOSPEADA was trying to follow in Macross' footsteps with some of the mecha design. In addition to the three-mode Legioss, there were also these non-transforming Destroid-like mecha in the works: http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/new.i.../mospeada-1.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big F Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I've always felt very strongly that MOSPEADA was trying to follow in Macross' footsteps with some of the mecha design. In addition to the three-mode Legioss, there were also these non-transforming Destroid-like mecha in the works: http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/new.i.../mospeada-1.gif They kinda define the style of the era too. In a similar way to how everyone wants there MP3 player to look a llittle like the IPOD in some way or another, nowadays. Theres probably a better Anime related equivalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Man I bet a takatoku legioss would have been BAD ASS and on par with their 1/55 chunky monkeys. One could dream... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha OTS Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Most people here will probably disagree with you on that, myself included. Gerwalk looks like a freaking hawk swooping down on its prey. I love it. It's hard to care for gerwalk until you see it in action and how truly functional it is. When I was a kid, I thought it was a dumb half-assed transformation. Now I think it's the coolest mode available. As for Alphas, here's a post I made about them on a different forum: ------------------------- I took advantage of the Christmas $40 sale robotech.com had on their alphas. I picked up Rook and Lancer. I opened up Rook first. From my research on these, I knew you had to handle these like eggshells, especially the first time you transform them. So I did, and didn't really have any major problems. The one panel popped off, but that was because I was unaware that it needed to be flipped over before moving the shoulder into place. So after that, I diligently followed the directions to avoid any other needless popping. Quality's decent. Most of the diecast is in the legs and upper chest. Unfortunately there were some QC problems with Rook. Both sets of rear landing gear are really loose. They're supposed to lock into place when you push them forward, but they don't. I guess some careful krazy glue apps could tighten up the joint if I wanted. The multi-jointed mechanism that leads to the head is loose too, so the head is a bit looser than I'd like, but its acceptable. The chest center is supposed to move out slightly so it's angled rather than flat, but its not budging, and I'm not going to force it. When I opened up Lancer, I was really worried because something was clearly wrong with the left thruster/foot. Fortunately it was just rotated out of place and not a problem with the figure itself. Phew. First thing I check is the landing gear, and that's when I confirm that Rook's are not behaving the way they should. I was familiar with the transform now so the transform flowed a little smoother. Only hiccup was the right arm wouldn't extend, but after carefully moving it a little back and forth it eventually extended. The joints leading up to the neck are also more stiff than Rook's, so the head has the firmness I expect. The chest expansion moves easily in and out unlike Rook's. Leg joints on both are pretty firm. No looseness. Unfortunately despite being made of plastic and the joint seeming strong, the arms have a tendency to rotate downwards under their own weight. This sucks, and would have really benefited from a ratchet joint. I put Rook's arm up in a wave and it eventually rotated down to be out laterally. So if you want an arm in an over the head pose, you have to sort of over extend where you want it so it'll be where you wanted it once it finishes its rotation downwards. Lancer has the better joints of the two. I'll probably just display Rook in bot mode rather than in jet with the landing gear out. Both Paint apps are about the same on both. Rook's seems to be better because the red helps hide the flaws. There's some sloppiness, but you have to look for it. There's a nick or two on each as well. Nothing nightmarish, but it could be better. The wrists are really loose on each. The hand articulation takes some gentle massaging to work into place. I can get the hands and rifle into the poses I want, so this all isn't much of a problem. Unfortunately Rook has that hand split problem starting on her left hand where the pinky end of the metal pin connects to the wrist. This sucks and is something I'm going to have to keep an eye on to make sure it doesn't happen elsewhere. I'm pretty comfortable with both of them now, and not really afraid of handling them like I was when I initially opened them. They're not fragile like a plastic model is. I guess its durable enough for a collector. I'm pretty concerned what multiple transforms will do to the shoulder joints, and if it'll lead to limited "arms by the side" poses in the future. To be honest, I get far better QC, durability and poseability out of a $20 alternator or even a $10 deluxe. Unfortunately, Robotech/Mospeada being the niche it is, a similar option just isn't in the cards. So for $40 each, I think I did ok considering my other Alpha options(way too expensive or cheap and broken) and the limited physical manipulation I expect to do with these figures. I honestly can't really recommend or not recommend them. Most of the flaws I've mentioned I knew about from researching google. I guess be like me and know what you're getting yourself into before you take a chance and be completely dissappointed. ---------------------------- After seeing Shadow Chronicles, I started jonesing for a Shadow Alpha. The price at robotech.com is $60 a piece now, too late for the sale. It arrived, and I'm a little dissappointed. Hands weren't a problem on my Shadow. It's the one area where it excels over my other Alphas. I definitely didn't get a good one though. There was a nasty nick in the white of the right jet intake which was glaringly obvious. I had no choice but to touch it up with some acrylic paint. There were a couple of nicks on my Rook, but they were nothing as eye-catchingly bad or deep as what was on my Shadow. The black on the inside of the right intake was assembled very sloppily too. It's like they pushed it in way too hard and it started to crack as a result. Wouldn't surprise me if whoever/whatever did the damage caused both this and the aforementioned nick at the same time. There is also a very bad stress mark on the right inner arm as if someone or something was handling/assembling that part with way too much force. From what I read elsewhere, the Shadow supposedly had the best QC of the lot. Unfortunately that doesn't coincide with my experience. The factory monkey didn't show my Shadow any love. Out of the three I have, Lancer's the best. Apart from some sloppy paint apps that I had to closely inspect to find, I didn't have any real QC problems with Lancer. Rook has loose landing gear, some minor nicks, and the potential for hand splitting(I'm keeping a close eye on it, but I have to be careful moving the hands). It seems like Alpha QC is a gamble and the odds change based on how early(worse) or late(better) the wave is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Edited topic title to avoid confusion. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx7725 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 It's hard to care for gerwalk until you see it in action and how truly functional it is. When I was a kid, I thought it was a dumb half-assed transformation. Now I think it's the coolest mode available. No kidding. The ability to VTOL on demand and land/ takeoff where you want while keeping a low profile is one big useful thing. The Gerwalk/ Diver mode looks like a bird looking for worms, but it's a darn useful mode. So for $40 each, I think I did ok considering my other Alpha options(way too expensive or cheap and broken) and the limited physical manipulation I expect to do with these figures. $40 is decent for the Alpha, IMO. Personally, I think it should be a bit cheaper than that, but we sort of have to pay for the box (ok, that was a cheap shot.. but the sentiment's there). I am heavily comtemplating the Shadow Alpha, but at the current eBay price of $60+ and up, it's hard to commit knowing that most of the teething problems -- except the hands -- are going to be present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha OTS Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 $40 is decent for the Alpha, IMO. Personally, I think it should be a bit cheaper than that, but we sort of have to pay for the box (ok, that was a cheap shot.. but the sentiment's there). I am heavily comtemplating the Shadow Alpha, but at the current eBay price of $60+ and up, it's hard to commit knowing that most of the teething problems -- except the hands -- are going to be present. If you're willing to pay the $60 + $10 shipping, robotech.com's a place to buy them from rather than deal with the potential ebay hassle as they still have them in stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promethuem5 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 70 shipped is still too steep... I love mine, but still wouldn't feel good paying more than 50 shipped... it's just not THAT good.... but it IS a really fun toy if you know how to handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx7725 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 If you're willing to pay the $60 + $10 shipping, robotech.com's a place to buy them from rather than deal with the potential ebay hassle as they still have them in stock. I'm not in CONUS. No way it's going to be +$10 shipped... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonely Soldier Boy Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I was very lucky with all my four Alphas, but yeah the Shadow and the Lancer are the best in tightness and fitting of parts. Very fun to play with despite all the problems. As for Gerwalk mode, those tiny landing gears just don't do it for me. All my Alphas drag the chestplate and even if they dind't, you can't seriously think that a plane can land with that kind of clearance, so I just "land" them with the legs which makes more sense to me. Besides the Alpha is really easy to transform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonely Soldier Boy Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) Edit: Double post. Edited February 21, 2007 by Lonely Soldier Boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx7725 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 As for Gerwalk mode, those tiny landing gears just don't do it for me. All my Alphas drag the chestplate and even if they dind't, you can't seriously think that a plane can land with that kind of clearance, so I just "land" them with the legs which makes more sense to me. Besides the Alpha is really easy to transform. Sure they can land, I'm just not sure the mechanics can get underneath to fix the skid marks. They got model-thin mechanics, must be. Come to think of it, didn't the Fighter mode have a VTOL mode too? Back to the toy.. You can tweak the transformation until the "strung bow" syndrome disappear.. mostly; it can be done and I have done it. But even with the arched back gone, the clearance is really in millimeters. Even then, the whole Alpha feels a bit under tension. As for the ease of transformation between Fighter and Diver mode, I agree, in theory the Alpha is one of the easiest to transform. Toynami's rendition though, somewhat complicates the matter. In particular, the weight of the die-cast feet is of concern; transforming in to the split-foot configuration for Diver places additional wear and tear on the joint and makes it more likely to sag in Fighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totoro242 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Man I bet a takatoku legioss would have been BAD ASS and on par with their 1/55 chunky monkeys. One could dream... From the same interview: "They asked me to make a parts drawing. I guess they misunderstood and thought that I was someone who could make blueprints because I knew about the design. So, I had a tough time convincing them that I couldn't do that. And when we were making "Mospeada" toys, the person who made the test products didn't understand the transforming bike. He was making wooden models but he interpreted them the way he wanted and made them with different structures. Then they said, "It doesn't transform well." And they asked me for advice so I went to see it. It was a totally different thing. In the end, the person from Matsushiro who made the Valkyrie, made it and brought it to completion." The same guy who made the TT Valkyrie also made the large scale Ride Armor, so its very possible that this guy also was involved with the large scale Legioss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 From the same interview: "They asked me to make a parts drawing. I guess they misunderstood and thought that I was someone who could make blueprints because I knew about the design. So, I had a tough time convincing them that I couldn't do that. And when we were making "Mospeada" toys, the person who made the test products didn't understand the transforming bike. He was making wooden models but he interpreted them the way he wanted and made them with different structures. Then they said, "It doesn't transform well." And they asked me for advice so I went to see it. It was a totally different thing. In the end, the person from Matsushiro who made the Valkyrie, made it and brought it to completion." The same guy who made the TT Valkyrie also made the large scale Ride Armor, so its very possible that this guy also was involved with the large scale Legioss... FREAKING AWESOME! I remember seeing it in person for the first time 6 years ago in california. Man...its big and awesome. A removable semi articulated pilot figure is icing on the cake too. Hey guys the alphas are tempting, what steps should I take to ensure that mine does not break in the case that I get one in the future? So far one thing I have gathered, is to be gentle when sliding the arms down for transformation. Are the arms the weakest parts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx7725 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 So far one thing I have gathered, is to be gentle when sliding the arms down for transformation. Are the arms the weakest parts? Arms and hands mostly; the rest is mostly die-cast (legs and torso), if you can break those you really shouldn't be handling toys... Hands you have to be really careful not to catch on the edges; they don't fold very well into fists, so turning them into the compartments can be quite hairy, especially when you are in fear of the hands crumbling. Really, I have to find an alternative to those hands... Have to be a bit careful with the canopy; it opens, but you need to squeeze it a bit, so, yeah, it can break. Watch out for the chest compartment where you store the cyclone, it's just a sliding piece, so yeah, it can open and then your cyclone would be "airdropped"... Then the missile covers, they shouldn't open by themselves but if they do, be careful not to get them caught on anything; the covers are plastic so they can rip. Same applies for the "canards", they tend to catch on things unintended, especially when you are transforming from Robot/ Battroid to Fighter/ Diver. Then you have to watch out for the cover of the sensor, you need to open/ close it at a specific point in the transformation or it would jam/ require a reverse. Then there's the rear landing gear, the cover might stick a bit but that's ok, the problem is with the gear itself. Because the space there is so tight (and the feet so big), sometimes it gets hung up on the ankle joint, so don't force it, just wiggle the ankle a bit to see if it loosens up. You shouldn't need too much force on it. The shoulders might give you a bit of problem during transformation -- it might "stick" at a wrong place, which is annoying, but rarely fatal. The head too might give some issues -- the paint on my neck joint has already been abraded off through the transformations -- but generally shouldn't be that bad. The torso joint, you need to watch out for because depending on your luck the sliding joint might be "sticky", so might need a bit of force. That's about all that I can remember, maybe someone else has other tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 LOL Lynx, you think that's thorough enough? I find that with the Alphas, if you think something is wrong you should immediately go ask someone who has more experience with them. Most people who break something on it are trying to force it because they don't know why it's stuck at a certain point and they think "Eh, I'll just wiggle it and apply steady pressure" but that can be a recipe for disaster. The hands though, as Lynx pointed out, are very scary bits, handle them as infrequently as possible. They're made of soft rubber and a metal pin is centered in the middle of what is essentially a millimeter thick rubber shell. It's real easy for that pin to be pushed through the rubber causing the hand to be forever ruined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx7725 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Shrug.. That's why I say, when I play with my Alpha, I worry. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha OTS Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Arms and hands mostly; the rest is mostly die-cast (legs and torso), if you can break those you really shouldn't be handling toys... Ditto everything Lynx said with emphasis on the above. Whatever you do, if something's not moving like it should DON'T force it. This is especially true of the arms and hands. Put it down, then come back to it later. Although if you buy a Shadow, you shouldnt' have problems with the hands as it's a much thicker claw type hand than the thinner human type hands the other Alphas and the upcoming Alphas have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Max Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Jeez, you guys make it sound safer to get a Gakken! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha OTS Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Jeez, you guys make it sound safer to get a Gakken! It is, but that's the trade-off for a more inexpensive Alpha than the Gakken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 The MPC Alpha is better than the old Gakken in EVERY way except durability... but I can make a pretty nice list of parts on the old Gakken you want to be cautious with (does anyone here remember the knees on that thing??) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Max Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I keep going through a phase of wanting the Gakken Legioss (and other old DX's) without actually buying any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikuro Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Well while I rather have Scott's alpha, I got rook's, but it wont arrive until probably Monday or Tuesday : / 69.97 shipping included, it's cheaper still then when they first came out I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Max Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Where are they available at those sort of prices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megatroptimus Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 I received my green masterpiece Alpha this morning, and wow, I was impressed by the weight! Didn't know it was so heavy in die-cast content! Transformation wasn't as tricky as I thought it would be, although I had to be careful. The left shoulder was glued and couldn't pivot, had to hold the shoulder joint with pliers to free the arm, nothing broke, all is fine. It's kinda hard to pose with those funky legs, but it makes for a killer display piece. I don't regret it at all, the book thingy is really nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikuro Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Where are they available at those sort of prices? Heh, Robotech.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikuro Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I got my Alpha today, was messing around with it, honestly, is it just me, or do the heads not lock into place in Battloid mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Well while I rather have Scott's alpha, I got rook's, but it wont arrive until probably Monday or Tuesday : / 69.97 shipping included, it's cheaper still then when they first came out I think. Just by $10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx7725 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I got my Alpha today, was messing around with it, honestly, is it just me, or do the heads not lock into place in Battloid mode? It's not just you. It doesn't lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robodragon Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I have found that Toynamis Alphas are mor for customizing then collecting. This is wHat I have done with one of mine. The LV Alpha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I'm confused... why would you want the head to "lock" in battloid mode? Don't you want it to be able to move around so you can pose it better or are you going for like an upside down pose... I guess if you were holding it upside down it would be a problem. Still a great job on those customs Robo. I can't believe you were able to mask that bright red so well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikuro Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I just don't want it to flop around when I'm moving it from one place to another, or yeah if it's being held upside down to complete a part of the transformation, that sort of thing. I can't believe they didn't do something to help lock the head into place.....that's so..............stupid. I'll probably do a review of the toy sometime when I'm available to really get to know the figure. It's actually alot bigger then I expected which I guess surprises all first time buyers. But I'm not too hip on the color shades they use. I can spot a few different tone of reds on Rook's Alpha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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