Call Signs In macross

[Ali Sama]

Why arn't there any callsigns?

Considering the pilots are airforce. They should have call signs. the only ones we get are. Skull leader, vermilian 1 etc. they arn't real call signs. Call signs, historically tend to represent personality, a pun on the last name, or an act they did(usually embarresing).

Max Jenus would be max 'Jenius' jenus or max 'einstien' jenus. stuff like that.

Any thoughts?

[sketchley]

It would confuse the heck out of the viewer. 1 less-than thirty minute episode once every seven days in a very busy life - it's demanding enough to ask the viewer to remember the names and the events that happened in the preceeding week! It is also one of the reasons why every hero has their unique vehicle and colours. Did Hikaru deserve a VF-1J when he joined? No. But it made him unique and visibly distinct from the legions of brownie VF-1A, and the yellow-black VF-1S. Later, Jenius in his blue trimmed VF-1A...

Edited November 13, 2006 by sketchley

[Ali Sama]

It would confuse the heck out of the viewer. 1 less-than thirty minute episode once every seven days in a very busy life - it's demanding enough to ask the viewer to remember the names and the events that happened in the preceeding week! It is also one of the reasons why every hero has their unique vehicle and colours. Did Hikaru deserve a VF-1J when he joined? No. But it made him unique and visibly distinct from the legions of brownie VF-1A, and the yellow-black VF-1S. Later, Jenius in his blue trimmed VF-1A...

not really. there are other sereis with callsigns. callsigns is a tradtition. considering the small cast. Having callsigns is not really an issue. Look at bsg and other shows. top gun. etc.

[sketchley]

BSG? Battlestar Galactica?

Top Gun? Movie?

Please provide another Japanese produced anime with callsigns. Let's not mix differing cultures when it comes to entertainment.

[Ali Sama]

BSG? Battlestar Galactica?

Top Gun? Movie?

Please provide another Japanese produced anime with callsigns. Let's not mix differing cultures when it comes to entertainment.

The red comet - gundam

Goh "Rocky" Mutsugi (Makoto Shinj - area 88

Sousuke Sagara - His call sign is Uruz 7 - full metal panic

the callsigns for the yf project in plus.

IN 0083, the zion forces have callsigns when trying to infitrate the federatio base and steal the gp units.

read or die

the paper, miss deep, the joker

here

Most characters' names (except the main character Joto Hiko Heiso (Senior Flight Sergeant) Yoshika "Mamefuji" Miyafuji) are after famous historical fighter aces:

* Oberleutnant Erica "Frau" Hartmann = Erich "Bubi" Hartmann, 352 victories, "ace of aces"

* Hauptmann Gertrud "Trude" Barkhorn = Gerhard Barkhorn, 301 victories

* Senior Lieutenant Sanya V. "Lilya" Litvyak = Lydia Vladimirovna Litvyak, 12 victories, one of two female aces in history

* Tenente Francesca "Gaddino" Lucchini = Franco Lucchini, 26+ victories

* Shoi Mio "Samurai" Sakamoto = Saburo Sakai (60+ victories) + Tetsuzo Iwamoto (80 victories)

* Oberstleutnant Minna-Dietlinde "Füllstein" Wilcke = Wolf-Dietrich Wil©ke, 162 victories

* Sergeant Lynette "Lynne" Bishop = Billy Bishop, ~72 victories

* Captain Charlotte E. "Charlie" Yeager = Charles E. "Chuck" Yeager, 11.5 victories, first man to break the sound barrier in level flight

* Kadetti Eila Ilmatar "Il" Juutilainen = Ilmari Juutilainen, 94 victories

* Lieutenant Perrine-H. "Clostel" Clostermann = Pierre Clostermann, 23+ victories

i'll add more as i find them.

Edited November 13, 2006 by Ali Sama

[Pat Payne]

The red comet - gundam

Goh "Rocky" Mutsugi (Makoto Shinj - area 88

i'll add more as i find them.

The Red Comet was a nickname concocted by whatever propaganda department existed in the Principality of Zeon -- he was never called it explicitly by his wingmen as a callsign, who always adressed him as "(current rank) Char" (for instance "Char-Sousha" (Maj. Char)).

Instead, it's more akin (indeed, explicitly meant to be a direct reference to) Manfred Freiherr von Richthofen's famed sobriquet "Der Rote Kampffleiger" (literally "the Red Battle Flier") more often rendered in English as "The Red Baron."

[Ali Sama]

The Red Comet was a nickname concocted by whatever propaganda department existed in the Principality of Zeon -- he was never called it explicitly by his wingmen as a callsign, who always adressed him as "(current rank) Char" (for instance "Char-Sousha" (Maj. Char)).

Instead, it's more akin (indeed, explicitly meant to be a direct reference to) Manfred Freiherr von Richthofen's famed sobriquet "Der Rote Kampffleiger" (literally "the Red Battle Flier") more often rendered in English as "The Red Baron."

it became his callsign as soon as zion forces started calling him that. Callsigns are nicknames. I am finding more examples. this might be a looser one. but the point of the topic was. why no callsigns.

Edited November 13, 2006 by Ali Sama

[Pat Payne]

it became his callsign as soon as zion forces started calling him that. Callsigns are nicknames. I am finding more examples. this might be a looser one. but the point of the topic was. why no callsigns.

But I argue that it didn't. The first time we hear the name, it's Capt. Paolo --the Federation captain of the White Base -- who identifies him as "The Red Comet." Other Zeon officials such as Garma do refer to him by the name, but always in non-combat setings, and at no time during the show or compilation films IIRC do they actually call out something like "Red Comet, come in Red Comet, do you hear me". They always address him over the tactical radio by his name and rank.

A beter example for the Gundam series would be one of his wingmen during the infiltration into Jaburo, who is called "Akahana" (Red nose), and who has, naturally, a big, red, WC Fieldsesque schnozz. That one could concievably be a callsign, as it's riffing on a decidedly comical feature to use as a codename.

As for why no callsigns, as others have mentioned, it really comes down to suspension of disbelief and keeping the story as straight as possible. The more names you introduce for a character, unless absolutely necessary (a good example of this would be the 1963 Cary Grant-Audrey Hepburn movie "Charade"), the more chance of confusing the viewer. To have Misa refer to Hikaru as "Ens. Ichijyo" and then, in a long shot of fighters as "Vermillion 23" could possibly throw viewers off.

Edited November 13, 2006 by Pat Payne

[Ali Sama]

But I argue that it didn't. The first time we hear the name, it's Capt. Paolo --the Federation captain of the White Base -- who identifies him as "The Red Comet." Other Zeon officials such as Garma do refer to him by the name, but always in non-combat setings, and at no time during the show or compilation films IIRC do they actually call out something like "Red Comet, come in Red Comet, do you hear me". They always address him over the tactical radio by his name and rank.

A beter example for the Gundam series would be one of his wingmen during the infiltration into Jaburo, who is called "Akahana" (Red nose), and who has, naturally, a big, red, WC Fieldsesque schnozz. That one could concievably be a callsign, as it's riffing on a decidedly comical feature to use as a codename.

As for why no callsigns, as others have mentioned, it really comes down to suspension of disbelief and keeping the story as straight as possible. The more names you introduce for a character, unless absolutely necessary (a good example of this would be the 1963 Cary Grant-Audrey Hepburn movie "Charade"), the more chance of confusing the viewer. To have Misa refer to Hikaru as "Ens. Ichijyo" and then, in a long shot of fighters as "Vermillion 23" could possibly throw viewers off.

why should it? are the viewers stupid? there are plety of showes with main chracters who have callsigns. None of their viewers are confused. Even Gijoe had callsigns. Gijoe had way more characters and is comparible. Exo-squad had callsigns. If i remeber correctly.

[Roy Focker]

They just sound corny.

Number and colr reminds me of Star Wars.

Luke = Red 5

Works better for me than say

Luke = Wet Boy.

[Ali Sama]

They just sound corny.

Number and colr reminds me of Star Wars.

Luke = Red 5

Works better for me than say

Luke = Wet Boy.

red 5 is a callsign.

he was just inlisted. It takes time to really get one.

usually they are puns on the name or actions they did.

luke "star killer" skywalker would work(refrence to the death star kill.

lots of other things would work.

callsigns are a part of the military. It is tradition.

it's like making a military drama. Not showing anyone in uniform, saluting anyone. refering to any ranks. ANd expecting it to be a military show. Becuase it woudl sound silly or confuse the watcher. No let;s not call him major roy focker, roy focker. skip that. call him roy. yeah. but doesn't hikaru call him sempai? that is too confusing. let's call him sempai in the entire show. yes. let;s. do that.

Edited November 13, 2006 by Ali Sama

[jenius]

we need macrossworld call signs.

Edited November 13, 2006 by jenius

[sketchley]

Ok, thank you for the list of callsigns (the disputed ones are fun reading too.)

Though, I did answer your question in my earlier post. To repost the answer in other terms: the KISS principle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

The original Macross (which is what the original question appears to be directed at) is primarily a non-serious war show marketed at kids and teenagers. The KISS principle is very important when dealing with that demographic.

Or, as the original Gundam was mentioned - what is Amuro Rei's callsign in the original Gundam TV series?

And yes, viewers are stupid*. It's easier to create a succesful story for the lowest common denominator that way. An example of a show where the audience isn't treated as being stupid is Star Trek. But is that show really that popular? Compare the success of any one of it's movies to a movie like "Armaggedon", which does treat it's audience as stupid, and is, frankly, offensive to those who do understand a little bit about science and physics - yet the movie made $553,709,788**.

*To clarify, I don't mean that they really are stupid. I mean that when they watch the show, they turn off their brains. Entertainment is escapism. If you want to escape from a complicated life, you tend to seek out simple distractions. Japan = complicated life in spades.

** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armageddon_(film)#Box_office

Star Trek: First Contact $150,000,000 http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/series/StarTrek.php

[Ali Sama]

Ok, thank you for the list of callsigns (the disputed ones are fun reading too.)

Though, I did answer your question in my earlier post. To repost the answer in other terms: the KISS principle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

The original Macross (which is what the original question appears to be directed at) is primarily a non-serious war show marketed at kids and teenagers. The KISS principle is very important when dealing with that demographic.

Or, as the original Gundam was mentioned - what is Amuro Rei's callsign in the original Gundam TV series?

And yes, viewers are stupid*. It's easier to create a succesful story for the lowest common denominator that way. An example of a show where the audience isn't treated as being stupid is Star Trek. But is that show really that popular? Compare the success of any one of it's movies to a movie like "Armaggedon", which does treat it's audience as stupid, and is, frankly, offensive to those who do understand a little bit about science and physics - yet the movie made $553,709,788**.

*To clarify, I don't mean that they really are stupid. I mean that when they watch the show, they turn off their brains. Entertainment is escapism. If you want to escape from a complicated life, you tend to seek out simple distractions. Japan = complicated life in spades.

** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armageddon_(film)#Box_office

Star Trek: First Contact $150,000,000 http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/series/StarTrek.php

even stupid low brow movies like wing commander and the one which shall not be named under penalty of death(done by me due to curtosy to my good friend roy) had callsigns. Gundam had a excuse. he wasn't military and most of the real military on board died. I wish more stories would feature more realisitc things. a nickname is the same as a callsign. It gives the character more personality.

roy is skull one i my mine. or skull leader. max kjea woudl be einstien max sterling would be silver. etc.

[sketchley]

*cough* don't confuse live action American movies and TV series aimed at 15 to 30 year olds for animated Japanese TV series aimed at 5 to 15 year olds *cough*

I have trouble understanding your post. Could be the grammar, could be the spelling, could be both.

[azrael]

From what I see, callsigns usage in anime (and some shows I have seen) are not really like the callsign usage in the US. We rarely see Pete 'Maverick' Mitchell, or Lee 'Apollo' Adama.

It's not Char 'The Red Comet' Aznable. It's Char Aznable - 'The Red Comet'.

And it's not Sousuke 'Uruz 7' Sagara, it's Sousuke Sagara- 'Uruz 7'.

We don't see Roy 'Skull Leader' Focker. It's Roy Focker - 'Skull Leader'

Andrew Waltfeld - 'Desert Tiger' not Andrew 'Desert Tiger' Waltfeld

Himura Kenshin - 'Hitokiri Battousai' or 'Himura Battousai', not Himura 'Hitokiri Battousai' Kenshin

....

The usage leans more as a designation or as a distinct name as oppose to a nickname.

In M7, Gamlin's callsign was "D-3", then "D-2", "D-1/D-Leader". I'm gonna agree with sketchley, it's too confusing for kids programming to have so many unique callsigns. It's better to use callsigns in a designation fashion (Red-5, Rogue Leader, Uruz-6, Skull-10, D-2, blah blah blah) or use the names separately.

In G.I. Joe, we rarely hear them use anything BUT their callsigns throughout the series.

[Nied]

Call signs for pilots started among American pilots as a way of quickly identifying pilots over radio in the heat of combat, they aren't generally used in the air arms of other countries. The UN Spacy uses two way video in its communications making the actual reason for using call signs redundant, that and the fact that there was no tradition of using call signs (except among the American pilots inducted into Spacy service) would explain why we don't see them in Macross.

[Keith]

Macross Plus didn't have callsigns either. If anything, it would appear (from anime at least) that the Japanese prefer special team/squad names as a whole, to individual callsigns as a sign of pilot status.

Isamu's callsign wasn't Eagle-1, that was his team, same goes for Skull, Vermillion, Angel, Diamond Force, Emerald Force, Pink Pecker, etc. GSD as well as various other anime use the team leaders last name to signify the whole team. Votoms had the Red Shoulders, Dirty Pair had the Lovely Angels, V Gundam had the Strike Team, etc.

The only instance in the top of my head that I can remember a Japanese storyline with individual codenames is Metal Gear. And even then, those individuals are still under a larger team name.

[Hikuro]

Looks like Ali is loosing this debate......gotta agree with the others......call signs in anime or TV drama are pointless unless the character is constantly called that amongst their pears. And in Macross considering it was a "Soap Opera" and not a big action thriller where everyone was military, the point of call signs would be worthless.

[Chas]

Looks like Ali is loosing this debate......gotta agree with the others......call signs in anime or TV drama are pointless unless the character is constantly called that amongst their pears. And in Macross considering it was a "Soap Opera" and not a big action thriller where everyone was military, the point of call signs would be worthless.

Agreed in GI- Joe the characters may have names but honestly how often are they used - almost never (what's 'Scarlet's real name?) . In Top Gun what was 'Ice man's' real name? heck for that matter what was 'Maverick's ? My point is that the "don't confuse your audience by giving your characters too many names " rule still applies in the examples you gave to disprove it - because those characters are almost always reffered to by their 'call-sign' - it 'is' their name. If you want to know what it's like trying to follow a story where the characters are constantly reffered to by any of two, or three, or four names try reading Crime and Punishment by Dostoyevsky, or for that matter any of the 'classic' 19th-20th Century Russian novelists.

And I donn't know exactly but I suspect that the 'call-sign' is primarily an American phenomenon.

[Knight26]

As Keith pointed out, Callsigns are an almost exclusively American trait, though some other western european countries use them too. However, callsigns are rarely, if ever, used in the tactical environment. Instead the mission as a whole has a callsign. If I am the leader of eagle fligth I am Eagle 1, if I am the fourth ship in that flight I am Eagle-4. Macross uses that almost exclusively, Roy is almost always referred to as Skull-1 or Skull Leader, that would be the radio designation. Even Hikaru was usually referred to as Vermillion lead (IIRC). Macross Plus did it even a little better, as the YF-21 always flew as Omega-1 and the YF-19 Eagle-1. But when Isamu was flying chase he was no longer eagle-1 he was Chaser-1, which would be correct of the mission.

[justvinnie]

As Keith pointed out, Callsigns are an almost exclusively American trait, though some other western european countries use them too. However, callsigns are rarely, if ever, used in the tactical environment. Instead the mission as a whole has a callsign. If I am the leader of eagle fligth I am Eagle 1, if I am the fourth ship in that flight I am Eagle-4. Macross uses that almost exclusively, Roy is almost always referred to as Skull-1 or Skull Leader, that would be the radio designation. Even Hikaru was usually referred to as Vermillion lead (IIRC). Macross Plus did it even a little better, as the YF-21 always flew as Omega-1 and the YF-19 Eagle-1. But when Isamu was flying chase he was no longer eagle-1 he was Chaser-1, which would be correct of the mission.

You mean Alpha One when he flew the YF-19. He was Eagle when when he flew the VF-11 or as Chaser 1 when he was recording Guld's flight.

[Knight26]

oops my bad, been a while since I watched.

[Zinjo]

And yes, viewers are stupid*. It's easier to create a succesful story for the lowest common denominator that way. An example of a show where the audience isn't treated as being stupid is Star Trek. But is that show really that popular? Compare the success of any one of it's movies to a movie like "Armaggedon", which does treat it's audience as stupid, and is, frankly, offensive to those who do understand a little bit about science and physics - yet the movie made $553,709,788**.

*To clarify, I don't mean that they really are stupid. I mean that when they watch the show, they turn off their brains. Entertainment is escapism. If you want to escape from a complicated life, you tend to seek out simple distractions. Japan = complicated life in spades.

Well I was going to call you to task on your "viewers are stupid", until I read the post script.

Audiences may be treated as stupid, but how many "stupid" films are canonized as classics 20+ years later?

Pandering to the stupid doesn't make quality tv, BSG, Lost, CSI & Any Sorkin show all assume the viewer has a brain, and they tend to do fine...

However, your point about escapism is very true and thus I must agree with.

In terms of callsigns, I don't think it is necessary, Macross has an international cast of characters and there is no reason to use a typically American radio system of callsigns in the show. It may be cool here, but that doesn't work for the rest of the world.

[bigkid24]

Why arn't there any callsigns?

Considering the pilots are airforce. They should have call signs. the only ones we get are. Skull leader, vermilian 1 etc. they arn't real call signs.

red 5 is a callsign.

Make up your mind.

[Scream Man]

An example of a show where the audience isn't treated as being stupid is Star Trek. But is that show really that popular?

is Star trek Popular? Are you serious? Its debateably the most popular science fiction universe in history. There are hundreds of episodes across multiple storylines and timelines. Hell, im not a Trek fan and I still know its a popular series!

Agreed in GI- Joe the characters may have names but honestly how often are they used - almost never (what's 'Scarlet's real name?) . In Top Gun what was 'Ice man's' real name? heck for that matter what was 'Maverick's ?

SHana O'Hara. Pete Mitchell, TOm kazanski.

And all just from memory

That said i take the point. Callsigns are cool, and i wouldnt have minded seeing them in the show, but they would have been confusing and unnecessary. In Macross i suppose we would have only needed 4: Roy, Hikaru, Max and Hayao. But still...

[David Hingtgen]

I think people are confusing personal callsigns and radio callsigns.

If someone's callsign is "Pig" (fairly common) they may be called Pig for years and years---but their radio callsign can change every flight---it may be "Fast Eagle 107" one day, and "Dakota 202" the next.

[Lightning]

You mean Alpha One when he flew the YF-19. He was Eagle when when he flew the VF-11 or as Chaser 1 when he was recording Guld's flight.

actually, he was Eagle when he flew the -19, just rewatch the skywriting scene on the movie version.

[sketchley]

I think Alpha 1 and Omega 1 are the codenames for the YF-19 and YF-21. Though I could be mistaken.

Scream man, my point is not that Star Trek isn't popular, but that it isn't wildly popular and as big a moneymaker as less intelligent shows.

[justvinnie]

actually, he was Eagle when he flew the -19, just rewatch the skywriting scene on the movie version.

Never saw the movie version. I know in my version of the OVA, he was called Alpha One during that scene.

vinnie

[Godzilla]

Red 5 and Vermillion 1 are designations for the aircraft. Remember X-Wings were designated Red leader to Red 12 and for the Y0wings Blue Leader to Blue 12. IIRC reading Tom Clancy's books and other books that were nonficition (i.e Tomcats Forever), the planes have designation numbers like 200, 201, 400, etc.whereas "00" means squadron/CAG leader. Anyone here in the military particular to the US Navy to confirm or deny?

Call signs are specific to one person i.e. Pete "Maverick" Mitchell. Frankly, I would like to see it in Macross but UN Spacy isnt the US military so it would be hard pressed for it into the UN Spacy.

[David Hingtgen]

Navy modexes are traditionally thusly:

1xx---First fighter squadron VF

2xx---Second fighter squadron VF

3xx---First light attack squadron VA

4xx---Second light attack squadron VA

5xx---First heavy attack squadron VA

6xx---Second heavy attack squadron VA

(And they all have assigned colors, too---1 is red, 2 is yellow, 3 is blue, 4 is green, 5 is orange) Nowadays they're all just "VFA Fighter-Attack squadrons with Hornets".

The last pair of digits is the individual plane. 00 is for the CAG, 01 is for the squadron commander. 02 is the squadron XO. 03+ are for regular squadron members. 08 and 09 aren't used.

"Fast Eagle 100" would (for most of the history of the F-14) be the Black Aces' CAG *plane* but doesn't mean the CAG is flying it (odds are low, with a half-dozen planes or more designated for the CAG, but there's only one CAG).

PS---no Navy squadron has the radio callsign "Ghost Rider", despite Top Gun---not even the Ghost Rider squadron. Squadron name and callsign rarely agree--here's some I know:

Black Aces: Fast Eagle

Jolly Rogers: Victory

Ghost Riders: Dakota

Satan's Kittens: Hellcat

Swordsmen: Gypsy

Bounty Hunters: Bullet

Tomcatters: Felix

Tophatters: Camelot

[Lindem Herz]

Never saw the movie version. I know in my version of the OVA, he was called Alpha One during that scene.

vinnie

In the OVA, they call him Alpha One; in the Movie, they call him Eagle One. Why? Who knows.

On the other hand, I like how Hikaru "Lingerie" Ichijo sound.

[Godzilla]

Thanks for the info. It was more than helpful.

Navy modexes are traditionally thusly:

1xx---First fighter squadron VF

2xx---Second fighter squadron VF

3xx---First light attack squadron VA

4xx---Second light attack squadron VA

5xx---First heavy attack squadron VA

6xx---Second heavy attack squadron VA

(And they all have assigned colors, too---1 is red, 2 is yellow, 3 is blue, 4 is green, 5 is orange) Nowadays they're all just "VFA Fighter-Attack squadrons with Hornets".

The last pair of digits is the individual plane. 00 is for the CAG, 01 is for the squadron commander. 02 is the squadron XO. 03+ are for regular squadron members. 08 and 09 aren't used.

"Fast Eagle 100" would (for most of the history of the F-14) be the Black Aces' CAG *plane* but doesn't mean the CAG is flying it (odds are low, with a half-dozen planes or more designated for the CAG, but there's only one CAG).

PS---no Navy squadron has the radio callsign "Ghost Rider", despite Top Gun---not even the Ghost Rider squadron. Squadron name and callsign rarely agree--here's some I know:

Black Aces: Fast Eagle

Jolly Rogers: Victory

Ghost Riders: Dakota

Satan's Kittens: Hellcat

Swordsmen: Gypsy

Bounty Hunters: Bullet

Tomcatters: Felix

Tophatters: Camelot

[Ali Sama]

As Keith pointed out, Callsigns are an almost exclusively American trait, though some other western european countries use them too. However, callsigns are rarely, if ever, used in the tactical environment. Instead the mission as a whole has a callsign. If I am the leader of eagle fligth I am Eagle 1, if I am the fourth ship in that flight I am Eagle-4. Macross uses that almost exclusively, Roy is almost always referred to as Skull-1 or Skull Leader, that would be the radio designation. Even Hikaru was usually referred to as Vermillion lead (IIRC). Macross Plus did it even a little better, as the YF-21 always flew as Omega-1 and the YF-19 Eagle-1. But when Isamu was flying chase he was no longer eagle-1 he was Chaser-1, which would be correct of the mission.

please read the link i gave which was about an anime ova which reused old world war II japanese aces and their "callsigns" as charcters.