Dam You Macross 7 Dam You #$%#$^#$&^$%&

[Keith]

You damn well may have to! Who else would you look to, G.W.? He'll throw your ass out in front of the aliens with a water pistol, while he gets away in his 65 billion dollar space ship.

And why demean the New York Dolls by throwing them together with Cinderella?

Edited July 4, 2006 by Keith

[Keith]

Ziggy has already shown his prowess against the Cosmic Monsters & Super Freaks. Not to mention the spiders.

[GutsAndCasca]

*laughing*

Well I guess using Cinderella would rule out any hope for a future peace treaty with the aliens...

[deadghost]

I personaly would show the little green me reruns of the "view", im sure that would get them to commit suicide. lol.

[GutsAndCasca]

I personaly would show the little green me reruns of the "view", im sure that would get them to commit suicide. lol.

413579[/snapback]

First they'd rape, torture, and napalm us into oblivion and THEN do the same thing to themselves.

[Mephistopheles]

Funny. I always got the impression from SDF Macross that the UN government was just as bad, if not worse, than in Mac7. I mean, at least in Mac7 they were far enough away to not really be a bother most of the time. Contrast that with the constant problems the Macross had in dealing with the UN government on Earth, who seemed to be made of of either overconfident idiots or warmongers.

For what it's worth, I've always felt a heavy anti-military streak throughout all of the series.

Anyhow, carry on.

413561[/snapback]

...? The Zentradi were going to attack no matter what even if UN Spacy did hand over the SDF from the get go. It's funny when you call somebody a warmonger because they choose to fight somebody whose only intention is make war. If you want to go by DYRL, the Zentradi flattened Earth on the initial attack. If you want to go by the TV show, the Zentradi were going to take the ship by force even if the SDF hadn't fired first and I have my doubts that they would have left with just the ship.

[Radd]

...? The Zentradi were going to attack no matter what even if UN Spacy did hand over the SDF from the get go. It's funny when you call somebody a warmonger because they choose to fight somebody whose only intention is make war. If you want to go by DYRL, the Zentradi flattened Earth on the initial attack. If you want to go by the TV show, the Zentradi were going to take the ship by force even if the SDF hadn't fired first and I have my doubts that they would have left with just the ship.

413611[/snapback]

As I recall, the U.N. heads didn't even try to establish communications with the Zentradi, even when informed it was possible. They weren't even aware of the Zentradi's intentions, and didn't seem to care to find out.

It's one thing to fight for defense, it's quite another to fight as a show of force without even attempting diplomacy.

[Mephistopheles]

...? The Zentradi were going to attack no matter what even if UN Spacy did hand over the SDF from the get go. It's funny when you call somebody a warmonger because they choose to fight somebody whose only intention is make war. If you want to go by DYRL, the Zentradi flattened Earth on the initial attack. If you want to go by the TV show, the Zentradi were going to take the ship by force even if the SDF hadn't fired first and I have my doubts that they would have left with just the ship.

413611[/snapback]

As I recall, the U.N. heads didn't even try to establish communications with the Zentradi, even when informed it was possible. They weren't even aware of the Zentradi's intentions, and didn't seem to care to find out.

It's one thing to fight for defense, it's quite another to fight as a show of force without even attempting diplomacy.

413621[/snapback]

True but the same could be said for the Zentradi who never even attempted to contact Earth regarding certain arrangements. The show doesn't specifically state that they never tried to talk with them although it is reasonable to conclude that we didn't. It wasn't until Dolza gave his order to destroy Earth and the contaminated fleets did the Zentradi make an attempt at peace out of self-preservation. I'm sure that prior to that the Zentradi would have stuck to their orginal plan. Also, keep in mind that we had access to all of the Macross' pre-reconstruction data. I'm sure there were some files regarding the Zentradi although this isn't clear but it is possible that the UN knew something about the warlike nature of the Zentradi. They had to know something, after all, they did build the VF and the Macross as a counter measure to the Zentradi.

[Roy Focker]

Btw it is the UNSPACY

Not

The UN (Kevin) SPACEY

[bsu legato]

Roy, there is one glaring flaw in your "pickle" analogy. If M7 was truly like having pickles on your burger, there would be some rabid "pickle fans" who would jump out of the bushes the moment you expressed your disdain for said pickles, and loudly preach their "tastiness" to you. At first you'd politely comment that they are free to put pickles on their own burgers but that you personally didn't want any. This would only incite them to louder and more grating displays of pickle fandom, such as shouting "Taste my kosher!" or simply "Dill!" until you had to physically harm them.

[Zentrandude]

Roy, there is one glaring flaw in your "pickle" analogy. If M7 was truly like having pickles on your burger, there would be some rabid "pickle fans" who would jump out of the bushes the moment you expressed your disdain for said pickles, and loudly preach their "tastiness" to you. At first you'd politely comment that they are free to put pickles on their own burgers but that you personally didn't want any. This would only incite them to louder and more grating displays of pickle fandom, such as shouting "Taste my kosher!" or simply "Dill!" until you had to physically harm them.

413675[/snapback]

Very true for example keith is a huge pickle eater Like i said eariler mac 7 is polarized.

Very true unspacy had that dark evil look to it from the upper brass giving out wierd orders for the troops to follow. sound force in vf-11s? did they not watched the heavily recycled footage of the same 3 or 4 vf-11s get killed through out the series while adding an extra frame for the next time they reuse it.

[GutsAndCasca]

Funny. I always got the impression from SDF Macross that the UN government was just as bad, if not worse, than in Mac7. I mean, at least in Mac7 they were far enough away to not really be a bother most of the time. Contrast that with the constant problems the Macross had in dealing with the UN government on Earth, who seemed to be made of of either overconfident idiots or warmongers.

For what it's worth, I've always felt a heavy anti-military streak throughout all of the series.

Anyhow, carry on.

413561[/snapback]

...? The Zentradi were going to attack no matter what even if UN Spacy did hand over the SDF from the get go. It's funny when you call somebody a warmonger because they choose to fight somebody whose only intention is make war. If you want to go by DYRL, the Zentradi flattened Earth on the initial attack. If you want to go by the TV show, the Zentradi were going to take the ship by force even if the SDF hadn't fired first and I have my doubts that they would have left with just the ship.

413611[/snapback]

The Zentraedi were definitely not planning on taking the SDF and teleporting back to their happy home without first making Earth into a burnt piece of toast.

[Radd]

True but the same could be said for the Zentradi who never even attempted to contact Earth regarding certain arrangements. The show doesn't specifically state that they never tried to talk with them although it is reasonable to conclude that we didn't. It wasn't until Dolza gave his order to destroy Earth and the contaminated fleets did the Zentradi make an attempt at peace out of self-preservation. I'm sure that prior to that the Zentradi would have stuck to their orginal plan. Also, keep in mind that we had access to all of the Macross' pre-reconstruction data. I'm sure there were some files regarding the Zentradi although this isn't clear but it is possible that the UN knew something about the warlike nature of the Zentradi. They had to know something, after all, they did build the VF and the Macross as a counter measure to the Zentradi.

413624[/snapback]

Yes, the same could be said of the Zentradi. The Zentradi were, after all, a warrior race whose sole purpose was to wage war.

The Zentraedi were definitely not planning on taking the SDF and teleporting back to their happy home without first making Earth into a burnt piece of toast.

We don't know that. In fact, given what happened in SDF it seemed clear that the Zentradi were not interested in Earth or humans at all.

[GutsAndCasca]

The Zentraedi destroy things. They make war and kill. It's what they're built for. It's what they do. I may be wrong here, but doesn't Dolza sort of present Misa and Hikaru with a planet being blown up for the heck of it simply to show off what they're capable of?

[Zinjo]

What calmed my ire about Mac 7 was when "sketchley" clearly pointed out IT IS A KID's SHOW, nothing of any greater importance than the Hanna Barbera shlock we grew up with.

Armed with that, I was finally able to just roll my eyes and move on to Macross Zero which is much closer to my tastes of Macross story telling.

Some love that show, others love anything Kawamori touches, I prefer to be a bit more discerning in my tastes.

The show isn't a total write off, but it aint no 'regular' Macross series that we've come to enjoy.

There had to be some things that kept you watching till the end?

For me it was the characterizations and how they interacted with each other that I found fun and that kept me watching.

I too would relegate it to an "alternate" universe demise, or at least the show that we should "never say the name"...

[Sumdumgai]

Currently sitting down to watch some of M7 finally. Man the VF-11s have it worse than just being cannon fodder, they're freaking lemmings leaping into an open working blender!

[Radd]

The Zentraedi destroy things. They make war and kill. It's what they're built for. It's what they do. I may be wrong here, but doesn't Dolza sort of present Misa and Hikaru with a planet being blown up for the heck of it simply to show off what they're capable of?

413714[/snapback]

This is after we've caught their attention and had been fighting with them for a while...while, in fact, they were still only really interested in the ship. The ship was their primary interest, they ignored Earth the entire time they were chasing it, even though they had plenty of manpower to spare.

Later events brought them to the decision to attack Earth.

As for that planet, we've no idea on the specifics of the situation. It may have been a Supervision Army stronghold, that just happened to be a prime candidate to make an example of.

[Radd]

Oh, as for the 'pickles' analogy, if someone I knew didn't want pickles on their burger, I'd be fine with that. If they claimed, with complete seriousness, that pickles caused cancer, promoted weakness in children, and ruined all hamburgers everywhere simply by existing...well, then I'd question their grip on reality.

[bsu legato]

Oh, as for the 'pickles' analogy, if someone I knew didn't want pickles on their burger, I'd be fine with that. If they claimed, with complete seriousness, that pickles caused cancer, promoted weakness in children, and ruined all hamburgers everywhere simply by existing...well, then I'd question their grip on reality.

413726[/snapback]

http://www.pen.k12.va.us/Div/Winchester/jh...or/pickles.html

Bomba! Er, I mean.....Dill!

[EXO]

Oh, as for the 'pickles' analogy, if someone I knew didn't want pickles on their burger, I'd be fine with that. If they claimed, with complete seriousness, that pickles caused cancer, promoted weakness in children, and ruined all hamburgers everywhere simply by existing...well, then I'd question their grip on reality.

413726[/snapback]

http://www.pen.k12.va.us/Div/Winchester/jh...or/pickles.html

Bomba! Er, I mean.....Dill!

413731[/snapback]

that brings us right back to this:

This sould scare you all to death

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S89Y4shxtE

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=19454&view=findpost&p=412756[/snapback]

[Mephistopheles]

The Zentraedi destroy things. They make war and kill. It's what they're built for. It's what they do. I may be wrong here, but doesn't Dolza sort of present Misa and Hikaru with a planet being blown up for the heck of it simply to show off what they're capable of?

413714[/snapback]

This is after we've caught their attention and had been fighting with them for a while...while, in fact, they were still only really interested in the ship. The ship was their primary interest, they ignored Earth the entire time they were chasing it, even though they had plenty of manpower to spare.

Later events brought them to the decision to attack Earth.

As for that planet, we've no idea on the specifics of the situation. It may have been a Supervision Army stronghold, that just happened to be a prime candidate to make an example of.

413724[/snapback]

Well, if you go by DYRL then the Zentradi destroyed everything on Earth in the first attack. In the TV series they decided that there wasn't anything important on Earth and decided to pursue the SDF-1 but doesn't mean that they weren't going to go back to Earth once they captured the ship.

Who the planet belonged to didn't matter. It merely was there to show that the Zentradi don't just beat their enemy into submission but commit acts of genocide. It also would appear that they actually have no interest in taking anything from the planet nor the inhabitants, rather they destroyed them because they were a threat. They even state that the Zentradi do nothing more than fly around the universe looking for someone to fight. It is their sole purpose. It's obvious that the Zentradi do nothing else nor are they interested in doing something else so they just wander around picking fights.

[Zinjo]

They even state that the Zentradi do nothing more than fly around the universe looking for someone to fight. It is their sole purpose. It's obvious that the Zentradi do nothing else nor are they interested in doing something else so they just wander around picking fights.

413780[/snapback]

Well actually they fly around looking for Supervision Army fleets to flight. The SDF 1 was originally an SA gunship that they tracked down.

They wanted the ship to destroy until they saw it had the legendary Reaction weapons aboard, then they wanted to capture it for those weapons.

[Mephistopheles]

They even state that the Zentradi do nothing more than fly around the universe looking for someone to fight. It is their sole purpose. It's obvious that the Zentradi do nothing else nor are they interested in doing something else so they just wander around picking fights.

413780[/snapback]

Well actually they fly around looking for Supervision Army fleets to flight. The SDF 1 was originally an SA gunship that they tracked down.

They wanted the ship to destroy until they saw it had the legendary Reaction weapons aboard, then they wanted to capture it for those weapons.

413788[/snapback]

They may have been focusing on the Supervision Army at the time but given that they don't know anything other than war I would have my doubts that they would have simply left Earth alone after taking the SDF-1 especially since they know that we know how to build reflex weapons. We would present a threat to them and they would most likely level Earth before leaving.

Hypothetically, if the Supervision Army was completely destroyed, what do you think the Zentradi would have done afterwards?

Edited July 5, 2006 by Mephistopheles

[JB0]

They may have been focusing on the Supervision Army at the time but given that they don't know anything other than war I would have my doubts that they would have simply left Earth alone after taking the SDF-1 especially since they know that we know how to build relex weapons. We would present a threat to them and they would most likely level Earth before leaving.

You're right, though for diffrent reasons than you think.

The sort of cultural contamination seen in SDF Macross had been witnessed before. Bodol's solution, while excessive from our point of view, was the official "cure."

They also reduced an Earth-like world to a smoking uninhabitable cinder jsut to make a point while interrogating Hikaru, Misa, and Kakizaki.

So at best we were irrelevant, at worst we were viewed as a direct threat to zentradi civilization regardless of our tech level.

Hypothetically, if the Supervision Army was completely destroyed, what do you think the Zentradi would have done afterwards?

413799[/snapback]

Killed each other off in civil war.

They could actually be doing that anyways.

We know their heirarchy ended at the PC, and the PC are gone. Beyond that, we only know that the zentradi were a cohesive force through Bodolza's level, which isn't the top. There were over a thousand such fleets in the zentradi forces, and the connection between them is unknown(as is how many levels are above them).

DYRL illustrates just such a situation. While it's status in continuity is that of a movie created within the Macross universe and a grossly inaccurate retelling of Space War 1, there's still the possibility that it draws upon actual Zentradi history(as told by Exedol) for inspiration.

We know that they hadn't ACTUALLY degenerated into a war between the sexes, because SDF Macross is currently the official version of events and Lap'Lamiz' forces answered to Bodolza, her Direct-Defense Fleet was viewed with great respect by Britai, and Bodolza considered it bringing in the "big guns." Hardly the way you would treet a traitor force that defected from your mortal enemy, though there IS an implication that females are the elite special forces of zentradi society.

But it's possible the zentradi forces DO consist of several independent megafleets roaming through space and locking horns every time they cross paths.

That tidbit of history would have inspired the DYRL writers' Zentran/Meltran war, with Earth being tragically caught in the crossfire between 2 fleets.

The gender rift was widened in as an artistic measure to emphasize the alien-ness of zentradi society, that men and women had become so far removed that they no longer even recognized each other as the same species, even though in "reality" they just didn't share ships.

If it sounds far-fetched, you aren't too familiar with real-world "historical" movies.

Edited July 5, 2006 by JB0

[Lightning]

um....Dill?

[Aegis!]

can´t be bothered to read the replies to the original post , I´ve lived through many M7 threads to waste my time like that so I´ll just say this:

flamebait

- close this already , we all know it´s an unhealthy topic , period.

[Lightning]

can´t be bothered to read the replies to the original post , I´ve lived through many M7 threads to waste my time like that so I´ll just say this:

flamebait

- close this already , we all know it´s an unhealthy topic , period.

413814[/snapback]

I agree, there's just been a few of those lately...

[Achilles2ca]

hi

First  off I have been a loyal fan of macross ever since I saw dyrl back when I was a little kid I got bored of it after a couple of years, then macross plus came and I was blown away, I heard about macross 7 but never got the chance to see it and was told by many friends that it was not even worth looking at so I never did, then I saw macross zero a while back and I was once again blown off my seat it was just art. I mean mac+ and mac0 were my all time fav animes I was touched by the great storylines and action scenes, and the realism that fited the flavor, BUT

I fineshed watching mac7 right now and I am @%@#%#$^en pissd, I mean were do I start I mean THEIR IS THIS JAY ROCKER WHO FLYS INTO COMBAT AND STARTS SINGING refuses not to shoot, KILLS THE IMAGE OF MY ALL TIME FAV VFs (the vf-19, vf-22), and HE DOESNT GET KILLED. The story is exactly like DYRL, the protodevlin dont get killed regardless if they use nukes against them I mean nukes hteir hoter than the core of the sun and that doesnt even kill them then music kills them I mean wheres the F@#%$@#N logic in that, ther animation sucks and I mean sucks more balls than a porn video, and whats the deal mirias pilot suit they never had that in the DYRL, same thing goes for the other pilots they got theis crapy suits that have no relation to mac+ I will make a small exception for gamlins suits, and couldnt they come up with better enemyswhat the hell is a monster doing flying threw space. It just dosent make any sense to me people, and this basara dude what the heck is up with his rebel with cause personality, the sound force mecha didnt even look right it was as if a 6yr old girl came up with it, and speaking of sound force, HOW THE HELL

DOES SOUND TRAVEL THREW SPACE IT HAS NO LOGIC. The ending sucked I mean if they are going to follow the DYRL footsteps mylene should have fallin in love with gamlin instead of basara who treats her like poo, gamlin and docker should have been the heros and should have killed the enemy like hikuru did, and BATTLE SEVEN TURNS INTO A HUGE ROBOT WITH A GUN OR RIFLE AS A CANON, you dont need a huge transforming robot for a good macross story, and not only that but why the HELL DID THEY KILL THE IMAGE OF THE VF-19, vf-11 AND VF-22.

OK NOW FOR THE GOOD STUFF, the only characters I like were Lt. docker( he kicks ass most of all), the bridge bunnys they were fine, and gamlin just a lillte. BUT EMERALD FORCE KICKD ASS I am even puting a model kit together right now, they were like the skull sq. THE VF-17 WERE OK  but they arnt supposed to be dog fighting aircraft they are more like bobing and recon aircraft, not only that but they had no destroids. hu man am I dissapointed shoji, I COULD WRITE A BETTER STORY JUST GIVE ME THE CHANCE.

They better come up witha better new macross ova studio nue. I guess thats why they came up with mac0.

let me hear your feedback and comments, I know some and most of you people are just as mad as I am.

413364[/snapback]

It's the way it took time out of my life, time that will never be returned that really gets me mad. It's just mass produced trash for the Macross/Kiddie market. I'm not even sure that I backed it up, when those original realplayer cd's corrupt and die it'll be one less piece of cultural detritus to carry about.

[azrael]

...

flamebait

- close this already , we all know it´s an unhealthy topic , period.

413814[/snapback]

I agree, there's just been a few of those lately...

413815[/snapback]

Well see. I think Roy wants people to get it out of their system. Once people do that, they bitch less.

[EXO]

The thread hasn't gone our of control. No flaming or useless arguments... so far.

Edited July 5, 2006 by >EXO<

[Mephistopheles]

They may have been focusing on the Supervision Army at the time but given that they don't know anything other than war I would have my doubts that they would have simply left Earth alone after taking the SDF-1 especially since they know that we know how to build relex weapons. We would present a threat to them and they would most likely level Earth before leaving.

You're right, though for diffrent reasons than you think.

The sort of cultural contamination seen in SDF Macross had been witnessed before. Bodol's solution, while excessive from our point of view, was the official "cure."

They also reduced an Earth-like world to a smoking uninhabitable cinder jsut to make a point while interrogating Hikaru, Misa, and Kakizaki.

So at best we were irrelevant, at worst we were viewed as a direct threat to zentradi civilization regardless of our tech level.

Hypothetically, if the Supervision Army was completely destroyed, what do you think the Zentradi would have done afterwards?

413799[/snapback]

Killed each other off in civil war.

They could actually be doing that anyways.

We know their heirarchy ended at the PC, and the PC are gone. Beyond that, we only know that the zentradi were a cohesive force through Bodolza's level, which isn't the top. There were over a thousand such fleets in the zentradi forces, and the connection between them is unknown(as is how many levels are above them).

DYRL illustrates just such a situation. While it's status in continuity is that of a movie created within the Macross universe and a grossly inaccurate retelling of Space War 1, there's still the possibility that it draws upon actual Zentradi history(as told by Exedol) for inspiration.

We know that they hadn't ACTUALLY degenerated into a war between the sexes, because SDF Macross is currently the official version of events and Lap'Lamiz' forces answered to Bodolza, her Direct-Defense Fleet was viewed with great respect by Britai, and Bodolza considered it bringing in the "big guns." Hardly the way you would treet a traitor force that defected from your mortal enemy, though there IS an implication that females are the elite special forces of zentradi society.

But it's possible the zentradi forces DO consist of several independent megafleets roaming through space and locking horns every time they cross paths.

That tidbit of history would have inspired the DYRL writers' Zentran/Meltran war, with Earth being tragically caught in the crossfire between 2 fleets.

The gender rift was widened in as an artistic measure to emphasize the alien-ness of zentradi society, that men and women had become so far removed that they no longer even recognized each other as the same species, even though in "reality" they just didn't share ships.

If it sounds far-fetched, you aren't too familiar with real-world "historical" movies.

413805[/snapback]

I like your explanation. I'm going to use it as my own.

[Keith]

What calmed my ire about Mac 7 was when "sketchley" clearly pointed out IT IS A KID's SHOW, nothing of any greater importance than the Hanna Barbera shlock we grew up with.

413720[/snapback]

Going by that logic, so is the original series, as well as 90% of all other mecha anime.

[sketchley]

Just some food for thought:

SDF: Macross - 1 TV series (36 eps.), 1 Movie, 1 OVA

Macross Plus: 1 OVA series (4 eps.), 1 movie

Macross Zero: 1 OVA series (5 eps.)

Macross 7: 1 TV series (49 eps.) + 3 bonus eps., 1 OVA series (4 eps.), 1 movie.

Makes me wonder how popular Macross 7 was (is?) in Japan - given that it has the most animation produced for any Macross series.

[deadghost]

Just some food for thought:

SDF: Macross - 1 TV series (36 eps.), 1 Movie, 1 OVA

Macross Plus: 1 OVA series (4 eps.), 1 movie

Macross Zero: 1 OVA series (5 eps.)

Macross 7: 1 TV series (49 eps.) + 3 bonus eps., 1 OVA series (4 eps.), 1 movie.

Makes me wonder how popular Macross 7 was (is?) in Japan - given that it has the most animation produced for any Macross series.

413854[/snapback]

You kinda gota understand its not the quantity but the quality that counts, if shoji got all the money and funding he put threw mac7 and place it threw a differnt project you would get something like mac+ or Mac0. for example the 3d fx they used for M+ was some realy complicated stuff they came up with back in 94, also you have to remember the animation quality and the replayed action scenes they used was to save some labor and money.

[Noyhauser]

Just some food for thought:

SDF: Macross - 1 TV series (36 eps.), 1 Movie, 1 OVA

Macross Plus: 1 OVA series (4 eps.), 1 movie

Macross Zero: 1 OVA series (5 eps.)

Macross 7: 1 TV series (49 eps.) + 3 bonus eps., 1 OVA series (4 eps.), 1 movie.

Makes me wonder how popular Macross 7 was (is?) in Japan - given that it has the most animation produced for any Macross series.

413854[/snapback]

You kinda gota understand its not the quantity but the quality that counts, if shoji got all the money and funding he put threw mac7 and place it threw a differnt project you would get something like mac+ or Mac0. for example the 3d fx they used for M+ was some realy complicated stuff they came up with back in 94, also you have to remember the animation quality and the replayed action scenes they used was to save some labor and money.

413863[/snapback]

No I think people understand the "quality" vs "quantity" argument however you don't understand that Mac + and M-7 were released at the same time, with very different aims. Whereas Mac+ was intended as pure eye/mecha candy rehashing Kawamori's unreleased Advanced Valkyrie chonicles story (or whatever its called) Mac-7 was intended more to tell a story, and focus on character development. Macross Plus ate a phenominal part of the budget up... it had bells and whistles like CG that ate up the budget.Macross 7 didn't have that money but it didn't need it. It wasn't supposed to be about the mecha (even though it had the most of any series) it was about the characters and story telling anyway. Whats the point animating complex battle scenes when it wasn't even a focus of the story, and you don't have the money anways?