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The Melancholy Of Haruhi Suzumiya Thread


JValk

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Crap in a hat. Some part of my brain just decided that Kawamori's disembodied cranium is what the Integrated Data Sentient Entity Or Whatever The Heck Yuki Called Her Boss looks like.

This is a good point, however it may simply be a case of the tendency we have to project images we are friendly with over images of the unkown...

Speaking of the unknown - what was that remotely anti-Spiral looking beast in the Baseball episode? Something clearly started to stalk the Earth for a moment until Yuki enchanted the bat to hit home runs....

Oh - also - I know this is totally "un-American" of me (although in my defense I was a Celtics fan growing up and was so in love with Larry Bird that I couldn't even get into any other sport) - but... Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is the first time I've enjoyed watching a game of a baseball :)

Pete

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I have no watched through to episode 10 included. Some observations/impressions:

1. Yuki is indeed very cute without glasses.

2. The island climax was kind of anti-climactic... I think on the whole the story didn't need to be a two parter. It's not that I didn't like it - but it's rather that the whole thing was set up to be some big event and it was actually less interesting than the "monotony" of the adventures at school...

3. What is the significance of Kyon's mole?

4. Asahina san's "grown up" self is great - mainly because she lapeses back into her "old" character despite any pretense of maturity every so often :)

5. The battles scenes are pretty cool. Albeit the bug was kinda dull - but the battle in the classroom was awesome :)

I think I like Yuki best of all...oddly enough...

Pete

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Yes - in the final scene of the two part island episode, when Kyon and the ESP Agent are talking on the boat we get a close up of it as if it were something we needed to know about - that or maybe it was a random existential scene? Or a commentary relevent to something I didn't know about?

Also - Asahina has a mole on her breast which at some point supposedly Kyon is going to notice - I wonder whether the two are related?

And a final observation:

In the second (sequential) episode, Kyon says something along the lines of "I matured to the point of acknowledging reality while still holding onto my beliefs." These beliefs being the "comic book" view of the world - aliens, monsters, evil organizations etc etc.

Looking back at the ten episodes I've seen so far, it would seem to me that the whole series is really summed up in that line - because that's basically what we see happening: a tension between reality and the belief in the fantastic; and a tension between both of these elements in the human heart.

I really like this anime.

Pete

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Speeking of playful - it's interesting to note that this anime has the same occasional background music as the "high school scenes" from Neon Genesis Evangelion - specifically the "chirping crickets" sound, as I call it.

Cicadas, and they're one of the things that symbolizes a hot summer season in the Asia Pacific islands. Not so much a jab at Eva, although that could be it too, but more portraying a regular summer season. Railroad tracks and all that also... you could even say they're referencing a lot of Byosuku 5cm with the railroads, but commuter railroad crossings are another one of those slice of life things.

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Most anime have that cicadas chirping sound. You just haven't watched enough of it. :lol:

I guess its as synonomous with cold barley tea drinks, smashing watermelons on the beach and various other summer-in-japan tropes.

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Hm - so this probably explains why Cicadacon of the Beast Wars II Tripledicus team was made as a...well...Cicada :) Thanks.

Now - I could swear I posted up some comments about up to episode 10 last night - did I post them to a different thread? :blink:

I'm suddenly worried that in a haze and daze I posted all about Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya in the Transformers thread or something... :)

Pete

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Just finished re-reading Disappearance and Day of Sagittarius... funny, didn't realize how close those were together in the time line.

I have to agree, the more in-depth pwnage of the computer society was much more epic in the novel than in the anime, but it would've taken far too long to describe I think.

Disappearance has me thinking a couple things though... either they're going to finish the season at the end of that story, and wait for season 3 to resolve the cliffhanger (of sorts), or they're going to try and work it in. What's funny... if they do go the latter route, and work it in, I almost think they might do that part out of order entirely, showing the resolution before the problem. I kind of hope not, but it might add an interesting twist to see that aspect of the story in reverse.

They did that a lot with the first season after all, having Kyon talk about the conclusion of the season vaguely throughout the season. It might not work so well here though, because it'll be a lot harder to be that vague when so much of the story will be wound together in that short solution bit.

Another thing occurred to me though, and it's maybe a bit troubling.. I hope that they do find some way to resolve the Disappearance story within this season.. otherwise, they might write themselves into a corner. If they do extend into a third season, that season will probably wind up dipping into the unresolved material in the last novel... now, while it might force the author to continue the story, it could also wind up being an unfinished series, which would suck royally. I hope they find a way to resolve everything within another season or two. The plot could go on much longer, but I dunno if they'd do it.

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I'm gonna watch Day of Sagittarius tonight along with the rest of the final episodes :) As for the book forms - are these in english? Or only Japanese? And is there manga as well? :)

Pete

Yup, they are officially translated (or at least volume 1 I think). If buying the books online, make sure you're buying the novels, not the manga. :p

Edited by shiroikaze
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Disappearance has me thinking a couple things though... either they're going to finish the season at the end of that story, and wait for season 3 to resolve the cliffhanger (of sorts), or they're going to try and work it in. What's funny... if they do go the latter route, and work it in, I almost think they might do that part out of order entirely, showing the resolution before the problem. I kind of hope not, but it might add an interesting twist to see that aspect of the story in reverse.

Disappearance is a too solid story not finish. I can see this season being Yuki centric like Charmed at Sight Lover.

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Yup, they are officially translated (or at least volume 1 I think). If buying the books online, make sure you're buying the novels, not the manga. :p

I didn't know any of them had been officially translated yet, but there's a site I found dedicated to a lot of fan-translated novels, and they've done all the published Haruhi books, as well as some shorter bits that don't fit in with them. Think the site's called Baka-Tsuki.

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I didn't know any of them had been officially translated yet, but there's a site I found dedicated to a lot of fan-translated novels, and they've done all the published Haruhi books, as well as some shorter bits that don't fit in with them. Think the site's called Baka-Tsuki.

Correct.

Makes me wonder if Kyoani is going to show hints of the Anti-SOS alliance this season as well.

Full on season three on them once volume 10 is published.

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Yes - in the final scene of the two part island episode, when Kyon and the ESP Agent are talking on the boat we get a close up of it as if it were something we needed to know about - that or maybe it was a random existential scene? Or a commentary relevent to something I didn't know about?

Also - Asahina has a mole on her breast which at some point supposedly Kyon is going to notice - I wonder whether the two are related?

Mikuru's mole is important. And not just because it's on her breast.

Kyon's mole... isn't. I don't believe it was even mentioned in the print stories, so unless the anime starts making lots of stuff up, there's no significance whatsoever to the mole.

Lone Island Syndrome also diverges a bit from the print version, for what it's worth.

I didn't know any of them had been officially translated yet, but there's a site I found dedicated to a lot of fan-translated novels, and they've done all the published Haruhi books, as well as some shorter bits that don't fit in with them. Think the site's called Baka-Tsuki.

I plowed through all the (then-completed) Baka-Tsuki novel translations shortly after discovering the anime. And started checking back every month or so to see if they'd gotten further. Now I get to curse the lack of new material to translate instead of the lack of translations.

And book 1 is on US shelves now. Both in a standard paperback release AND a deluxe limited-edition super-extreme hardcover edition with the original J cover art.

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I watched all the way up to episode 14 yesterday - didn't see the last episode because I'm having trouble downloading it. But the others were ace.

Day of Saggitaurius was indeed very fun. I like how Yuki becomes more human - in her own quirky way - as things move along. The Computer Society should be happy to have her...oh ...wait...

Is it possible that Yuki engineered the whole game/contest in order to get INTO the computer society because she was bored and wanted to play with them?....

I also liked Haruhi's softness with Kyon in the episode where he carried that heater up to school for her. It was quite a contrast to her coldness during the railroad walk- although I guess Kyon wasn't exactly showering Haruhi with empathy over her story of insignificance either. "Soka"...

In any event - dag - this is really really great stuff...

Oh yeah - and the Culture Festival... It's a tad bit unbelievable that Haruhi can sing so well. I know, I know - technically it should also be unbelievable that she can pitch so well too - but for some reason - to me at least - it is easier to pitch than it is to sing. Maybe this is because in my youth I had a bit of aptitude for sports (made the high school basketball team yo!) while having no aptitude for music (that is to say; I loved listening to it, but whenever I tried singing it people would run screaming)...

And it is interesting how she reacts to getting praised. So - could this be the real cure to dark space or closed space or whatever it's called? That is... if Haruhi finds a place on Earth where she is after all special and unique and not just like everyone - then she will stop being bored and stop destroying the universe?

While possible; there is no situation that is static - so likely she would become bored as circumstances change ....

In any event - marvelous wonderful amazing lovely supa dupa anime.

Pete

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Is it possible that Yuki engineered the whole game/contest in order to get INTO the computer society because she was bored and wanted to play with them?....

Not likely. She reacts to events, she doesn't instigate them.

The Compuer Research Society really IS that obsessed with the SOS Brigade.

Remember, the president is the person other than Haruhi that visists the Brigade website(while Mysterique Sign could've been a linkspam fluke, he accidentally admits to it in Sagittarius).

Oh yeah - and the Culture Festival... It's a tad bit unbelievable that Haruhi can sing so well. I know, I know - technically it should also be unbelievable that she can pitch so well too - but for some reason - to me at least - it is easier to pitch than it is to sing. Maybe this is because in my youth I had a bit of aptitude for sports (made the high school basketball team yo!) while having no aptitude for music (that is to say; I loved listening to it, but whenever I tried singing it people would run screaming)...

They established early on that she's got that cliche "really good at everything" thing going for her.

Perhaps because she is The Suzumiya. That which she wishes to enjoy, she is capable of.

...

Though she's not really a good pitcher. She only knows the fastball. :p

And it is interesting how she reacts to getting praised. So - could this be the real cure to dark space or closed space or whatever it's called? That is... if Haruhi finds a place on Earth where she is after all special and unique and not just like everyone - then she will stop being bored and stop destroying the universe?

While possible; there is no situation that is static - so likely she would become bored as circumstances change ....

Maybe helping people gives her a sense that she matters.

Remember, Three Years Ago happened because she realized her life was meaningless(which is probably why she dumped such an ugly look on Kyon after his "inspirational" speech early on, since he basically told her to just embrace her meaningless existence in the world's background).

I still find the Haruhi and Kyon contrast interesting, really. They both approach the same issue from opposite directions.

Haruhi realized her insignificance and started doing everything she could to stand out. Not just subconsciously remaking the world, but consciously altering her behavior to be more ... well, weird.

Kyon realized his insignificance and more or less quit caring. He started shuffling along with no real goal or motivation.

Of course...

When you consider that Kyon's living his dreams and having wild adventures every day, and Haruhi is completely ignorant of the amazing things happening all around her as well as the fact that she rules over an alien, an esper, a time traveller, and a Kyon...

It makes you wonder if Haruhi's REALLY the one with the super powers...

(She almost certainly is, but it's fun to poke at alternate takes on events)

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Well - this all goes back to what I wrote earlier; that the entire series can be summed by by Kyon's words from the beginning of the first episode - "I learned to accept reality while also holding on to my beliefs."

This is something that Haruhi has yet to learn. Kyon isn't apathetic - I think - instead - Kyon is as he says, someone who accepts reality but also holds onto his beliefs. This is why he is capable of being on "both sides" of the divide and moving between them so fluidly.

I don't think it's a matter of super powers. I think rather that we're dealing with solypsism here; and solypsism as a way of existing at that. I think that this anime is fairly close to what our real every day lives are like - if you're an anime fan, an otaku, a comic book/sci-fi fan - a dreamer.

There was a movie with Captain Kirk in it - I forgot the title - but it was about two Star Wars fans who lived out their belief in the existence of the Star Wars universe, and Kirk came along to help them discover how to live in a way that "accepts reality while still holding onto your dreams" - it had a lot of the same themes as Melancholy does - albeit it wasn't as well organized and didn't have so many pretty girls in it.

Or - another way of putting it:

If Kyon IS the one with "super powers" - then his power consists in being able to do as he says he does in Episode 1: "Accept Reality while still holding on to my beliefs."

Given how tough life is - I guess that IS a super power.

Pete

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Well it is still a long ways off to show Kyon's middle school friend Sasaki.

Remember it is said he has a thing for weird girls.

Kyon was pretty much like Haruhi in his fantasies (which explains why he is so genre savvy) until Sasaki corrected his thinking with logical arguments.

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Or - another way of putting it:

If Kyon IS the one with "super powers" - then his power consists in being able to do as he says he does in Episode 1: "Accept Reality while still holding on to my beliefs."

Given how tough life is - I guess that IS a super power.

Pete

I wonder if the "king and queen" comment from Koizumi in Bamboo Rhapsody actually alludes to this? :lol:

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I have to admit, the Uber-Kyon theory would be interesting, but considering how often he panics over the crazy stuff that happens, you'd think his thoughts would have stopped some of it.

I dunno the exact philosophy, or what it's referred to, but this anime is basically a complete manifestation of the idea that thinking something causes it to be that way. I've known some people who think that way at times, that if they believe something, or think about something happening, then the very act of thinking that way can sometimes have enough of an effect to actually cause it to happen.

Haruhi is like a direct embodiment of that, even though she doesn't realize it.

What I really would like to see? What was Kyon originally doing on Tanabata? He was basically in two places at once at that point (or maybe three? :lol: need to re-read more), but what was the younger version of him doing? If it was significant in some way.. that might lend credence to the idea that he's responsible for it all.

Okay, this will be very farfetched... but assuming the entire Sasaki plot is true, and she was actually the one with powers until that night, then Kyon would probably have still been around her in middle school at the time, possibly even that particular day. What if something happened between them that day?

I can't remember if they discuss anything about that, but what if something innocuous happened that night that Kyon doesn't remember? Might've been a simple conversation or argument, something he wouldn't find significant, much less remember the date of. But if Kyon were secretly the one causing everything... what if he unknowingly granted those powers to Haruhi that night in some way? Maybe got inwardly tired of Sasaki's way of thinking, and wished she would be a little less logical? Or maybe just wished for someone that was open to any possibility, thinking it would be more fun?

The truth is, someone granted Haruhi those powers on Tanabata, and the world changed. Her message in the field amounted to something like "I'm here, come find me!" Obviously something did, but we don't know what, or who. Again, assuming the Sasaki angle is correct, then someone removed the powers she had, and gave them to Haruhi. It could be Kyon for all we know. After all, strange things can happen in dreams, and we don't yet know what young Kyon was doing that night three years ago.

Anyway, theres' obviously a lot more going on than we realize.. especially considering the interest that Kyon gets from everyone in the club. Nagato continues to look to him for guidance. Asahina (big) obviously knows a lot of what happens, and keeps giving him warnings to protect him. Koizumi is a little more discreet, but he obviously does what he can to protect Kyon.

They all have an interest in Haruhi, and observe her... But Kyon? All three of them seem to know something that he doesn't, and are working to make sure that he does what he needs to do.

And.. oh crap. Just had a thought.

In Disappearance, Nagato mysteriously acquires Haruhi's powers (or something like them), and rewrites the world. Assuming she couldn't acquire that power herself.. where did it come from??

A day or so before the world was rewritten, while Haruhi was forcing Asahina into the santa costume, Kyon and Koizumi had a conversation outside the room... they were discussing how each of them had changed while being in the club, mostly Koizumi talking about how Haruhi had stabilized, only really making the odd sealed dimension during her dreams.. Kyon pretty much said he didn't care so much, that she was a troublemaker asleep OR awake, and Koizumi shot him down, saying he had no idea what Haruhi had been like in middle school, and how much work he had done then.

Well he starts reminiscing about the changes everyone's gone thru, and comes to Nagato.. and says the following after thinking about all the changes for her... "But, isn't that good? Haruhi's changes are great, but I think Nagato's are more important!"

After this, we see Kyon keep looking back at Nagato, quietly reading a book in the corner, oblivious to everyone else, wearing a party hat.

Shortly after that, Nagato mysteriously gets the ability to rewrite the world. While she claimed it was a buildup of erroneous data or something, why did it happen at that particular moment?

Gah, my brain hurts and my fingers are tired. :lol: I think wayyy too much about this series... Anyway, maybe Kyon has more to do with everything than he thinks. I mean, the entire series is ten tons of irony... the guy who wishes to be a side character in these types of stories is the narrator, and obviously the main focus. I'd be very surprised if he is responsible for it all, but I wouldn't say it's impossible at all.

Edited by Chronocidal
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I have to admit, the Uber-Kyon theory would be interesting, but considering how often he panics over the crazy stuff that happens, you'd think his thoughts would have stopped some of it.

I think subconsciously he didn't want it stop, or rather he has no power to stop it. Like rolling a little snowball downhill and watching it gradually turn bigger. How and what are you going to do to stop it?

...or is because we didn't want it to stop? :p

And.. oh crap. Just had a thought.

In Disappearance, Nagato mysteriously acquires Haruhi's powers (or something like them), and rewrites the world. Assuming she couldn't acquire that power herself.. where did it come from??

I thought she already has those kinds of powers just never used to that extent? I haven't read the novels yet, so maybe I'm missing something.

Hmm, what if Kyon is also the Data Entity that Nagato serves? :p

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Hmm, what if Kyon is also the Data Entity that Nagato serves? :p

Okay, now that really makes my brain hurt. Would be a hilarious twist though. :lol:

I'm still trying to decide if protecting Kyon is actually part of what Nagato is supposed to do, or something she just wants to do.

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And of course another nice curveball, What if Mikuru is Kyon & Haruhi's descendant? :)

Oh dear lord, I think you just broke the series. And maybe the internets as well.

Well, in a way Haruhi is responsible for Asahina being there. You need to read the story about the time the student council forced the SOS brigade to assume the Literature Club's duties. The article Haruhi wrote the for club publication was rather... well, epic. And by epic, I mean quantum physics epic. Double Spoiler! Avert your eyes!

yes, haruhi wrote an article that formed the mathematical basis for time travel to be possible

Ok, double spoiler over.

Actually, to be honest, that could actually fit in some ways... and it definitely puts a WHOLE other spin on why big Asahina said "don't get too close to me." :lol:

Of course, it also opens the possibility for a bit of "No, I am your father" humor.

Edited by Chronocidal
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Oh dear lord, I think you just broke the series. And maybe the internets as well.

Well, in a way Haruhi is responsible for Asahina being there. You need to read the story about the time the student council forced the SOS brigade to assume the Literature Club's duties. The article Haruhi wrote the for club publication was rather... well, epic. And by epic, I mean quantum physics epic. Double Spoiler! Avert your eyes!

yes, haruhi wrote an article that formed the mathematical basis for time travel to be possible

Ok, double spoiler over.

Actually, to be honest, that could actually fit in some ways... and it definitely puts a WHOLE other spin on why big Asahina said "don't get too close to me." :lol:

Of course, it also opens the possibility for a bit of "No, I am your father" humor.

Hmm, Mayhaps I'll pick up the first novel to help inspire further official translations.

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Spoiler! Avert your eyes!

yes, haruhi wrote an article that formed the mathematical basis for time travel to be possible

That and

Haruhi's kid neighbor he's the one responsible for the theories on time travel. Kyon's actions gives him the idea. Mikuru Big gave Kyon another mission. That the kid had to be saved once from evil time travellers. These other time travellers forges an alliance with another esper organization and another group of aliens. All of them are buddies of Kyon's old middle school friend Sasaki. You can call them the Anti-SOS brigade. Given the alpha and beta sides of volume 9 alternate timelines and realities are possible. So who is the Slider?

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Well - this all goes back to what I wrote earlier; that the entire series can be summed by by Kyon's words from the beginning of the first episode - "I learned to accept reality while also holding on to my beliefs."

This is something that Haruhi has yet to learn. Kyon isn't apathetic - I think - instead - Kyon is as he says, someone who accepts reality but also holds onto his beliefs. This is why he is capable of being on "both sides" of the divide and moving between them so fluidly.

It's subtle, but Kyon's really become a much more active persion since the beginning of the story.

Certainly some of it is just that he gets to hang around Mikuru every day, but...

The "current" Kyon probably wouldn't give that horrible waste of breath he called a speech that inspired Haruhi to create the SOS Brigade. I think he might even find it offensive(I know I did, and I really hated Kyon's character for a while because of it).

Especially since he now knows a plain old ordinary boring person IS changing the world. Hell, he's even saved it from total annihilation a time or two. It kind of undermines the entire premise of that little speech.

What I really would like to see? What was Kyon originally doing on Tanabata? He was basically in two places at once at that point (or maybe three? :lol: need to re-read more), but what was the younger version of him doing? If it was significant in some way.. that might lend credence to the idea that he's responsible for it all.

I wonder that too, actually.

Watch them do it someday. And it'll just be "Meanwhile, Kyon(younger) ate dinner. It was take-out. He then went to bed."

Anyway, theres' obviously a lot more going on than we realize.. especially considering the interest that Kyon gets from everyone in the club. Nagato continues to look to him for guidance. Asahina (big) obviously knows a lot of what happens, and keeps giving him warnings to protect him. Koizumi is a little more discreet, but he obviously does what he can to protect Kyon.

They all have an interest in Haruhi, and observe her... But Kyon? All three of them seem to know something that he doesn't, and are working to make sure that he does what he needs to do.

Well...

Being Haruhi's foil makes him a "person of interest" by default. Hence why the Brigade members revealed themselves to Kyon in the first place.

He's also someone who needs protection, as the Ryoko incident demonstrated. Given the factions represented in the Brigade would rather NOT see a repeat of Three Years Ago, it's in their interests to look out for Kyon

(though it's not ALL business, and I believe all 3 have stated the protection of the Brigade and/or Kyon comes before their duties at this point)

.

He's also a convenient common ground.

The various factions aren't really working towards the same goal. So Mikiru, Koizumi, and Yuki are limited in what they can do with each other business-wise, even if all three are there merely to observe. But Kyon is neutral, so they have a bit more liberty to work together with him.

Mysterique Sign is a good example. Sans Kyon, Yuki just deals with the situation on her own(as she probably has several times before). Add Kyon and it becomes a Brigade activity, with everyone but Haruhi taking part in the monster hunt.

And.. oh crap. Just had a thought.

In Disappearance, Nagato mysteriously acquires Haruhi's powers (or something like them), and rewrites the world. Assuming she couldn't acquire that power herself.. where did it come from??

The way I understood it,

she simply stole Haruhi's power. Hypothetically, it's a fairly trivial database modification. And Yuki speaks fluent SQL.

So who is the Slider?

As of Disappearance

Kyon's the slider. And he adds some more time-traveller credentials, to boot.

Edited by JB0
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I like DB L-E's more literal aproach sofar. I'll probaly stick with them.

I dunno, they seem to add alot of "flavor" to their Haruhi subs. I don't think this has anything to do with accuracy, however. Plus, the quality could be better.

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I dunno, they seem to add alot of "flavor" to their Haruhi subs. I don't think this has anything to do with accuracy, however. Plus, the quality could be better.

Reduced quality is the price of speed subs. I'm going to buy the DVDs anyway so these subs just have to last me till then.

I agree that they add "flavor" to their subs, but then the same goes for a.f.k. and coalGG (those are the ones I have seen). Imo it's just which flavor you prefer.

Yuki has subbed the reruns aswell and the visual quality is excellent, but they release slower then the speedsubbers.

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