Weapons Banter Thread

[Jasonc]

I'll see what I can look up in my spare time. There used to be some pretty interesting books on the subject as far as the names, uses, materials, etc. on those things. They are probably long out of print though.

[peter]

Any one know of any online sources on ancient Chines weapons and armor other than You tube or Wikipedia?

Probably most sources were destroyed in the Cultural Revolution, you can thank Uncle Mao and the Red Guards for that, haha!

Edited July 29, 2014 by peter

[Kyp Durron]

I don't know any, but are you wanting a referral for information on them, or where to buy?

Simple update on the M&P9c... I took it to the range later than I wanted to, which was the day before yesterday. Here's my review of it:

The Feel: The M&P9c's overall feel when held is quite comfortable. It can feel a little different if you are a Glock user, as the grip seems to be a bit more angled. When it comes to 9mm handguns, I started off as a Glock user, so when it comes to compact versions of them, this was my largest learning curve. It caused my first 3 loads of 10 rounds to want to dip the gun slightly downward as I pulled the trigger. It is something that took adjusting, and building muscle memory to get the old Glock, and even my HK USP 45 memory out of. The gun comes with 2 extra optional pieces for the rear of the grip to fit each user's hand. It's basically a S, M, L type of system, and the rear is easy to change out by simply removing the tool located at the bottom of the grip. That piece is mostly used for takedown, but also unlocks the polymer back piece. Quite a good design to adapt to more people, especially if you're going to use this gun and need something smaller or larger.

The magazines: Well, no matter how nice your handgun is, you're only going to get 10rds, so having a compact that carries 12 as a standard doesn't do any good in the state. The Magazine is slightly a double stack (?) meaning that the rounds seem just barely off center from one another. Not sure how much longer the grip would be if it was single stacked, but it may not be that much. Then again, these are the 10 rd mags, and not the 12s. My only gripe is that putting the rounds into the magazine is a bitch!!! I wore my hands out reloading, more so than actually firing. I will most likely stack them both up, and let the rounds sit in the magazines for a week, and see if that softens the reload. These were brand new, so perhaps my gripe there is unwarranted. When purchased the gun comes with 2 magazines, One has a longer finger rest in the front to fit your pinky finger on just nicely, while the other sits flush with the base of the grip. For CCW, if you need more concealment, perhaps the flush mag will work slightly better, but then, you leave your pinky free floating. It really depends on what you're good with. I'll probably buy another with the extended grip. You can also use the standard M&P9 17 round magazines, and there are aftermarket parts for it to adapt to the compact that will eliminate strange gaps in the grip to keep your fingers off the magazine. Versatility is the name of the game when it comes to this platform's magazines, so they got you covered there. While the larger standard M&P9 mags will probably cause you to lose any conceal carry advantage, it's there if you need more.

Magazine release: This is a shiny part in this gun. It works very well, and for you LH shooters, changing the safety release is just a matter of a takedown, and simply moving the parts to opposite sides. Very easy to do. When the mag release button is pressed, it has a good mechanism that is good in keeping the magazine where it should be, and when pressed, pops the mag out quite effectively.

The trigger: If you buy this gun fresh with no mods, the trigger already has a great pull. However, at the range, if you fire your rounds, you will need to have the trigger go all the way to home position to reset. I believe this was done out of request from law enforcement personnel who wanted this gun. There are aftermarket triggers that have a reset halfway or even less, and that is what I did to mine before coming home with it. I also lightened the pull just ever so slightly, and my reset is between 1/3 and 1/2 the return. Not that I necessarily need it, but it is a slight advantage, an you can always use an advantage if one of those moments arrive. What I did hear, is that newer M&P models will not need a full return to fire. I bought the version that has the safety in the trigger only. There is a version with a safety that can be bought pre-installed, or installed on your own at a later time. In my case, I don't need the extra safety, but if you like that extra little bit of comfort, the options are there. It Seems Smith & Wesson did a great job in making this gun well diversified for the various setups shooters prefer. My one gripe in this that I do intend to fix, is that the grip finish that is on the handle rides up through to the lower 1/3 of the bottom of the trigger guard. What this does, especially in a limited real estate handle, is cause the middle finger to get a bit agitated on its side pointing upwards of the gun. Not a good design here, and trust me, you can feel it after a short time. The saving grace in this, is that there seems to be sufficient real estate on that part of the polymer, that will allow you to smooth that out, and even indent in a small fraction, and still keep great integrity of that piece. This will be something I intend to do immediately (well, after cleaning).

For this model in paticular, it has the ability to fire the round in the chamber while there is no magazine in the well. I believe this is one of the reasons, along with CA wanting to have the micro stamping and other BS, that will make newer models of this gun unavailable in CA. It's a nice feature in continuous fire an reload times that will help in not needing to pull back on the slide after reloading. It's a great feature.

Takedown: This is definitely an easy gun to take down. I won't go into the manual and give you the directions, but with a built in tool for performing this, it's not bad at all. Technically, you really don't even need the tool piece, but it is an option. I spent a good day learning how to take this thing apart and put it back together, and I must say, it's one of the easier guns to disassemble and reassemble. No problems here.

Sights: These are quite standard and quite effective 3 dot sights. I intend to aftermarket these and get some tritium night sights, but in the meantime, they work. When matching them up, there is a bit of a gap between the rear and front posts which at longer distance, can lead you to fire a bit to the left or right. I would've liked to have seen a slightly wider front post on this to tighten the gap a bit, but that said, this is a compact, and your targets are probably going to be close enough where you won't need to worry too much about it. Something the upgraded tritium sights might fix (fingers crossed).

Firing and recoil: I've fired these well before purchasing this, so I already knew what I was getting here. This gun fires like a dream. S&W really did right with this platform, and the kick is minimal. It has a 3.5" barrel and for something this small, you'd think there would be a bit of a jump to it. However, as this gun weighs in at roughly 22 oz. it's not the lightest beast, but perhaps that weight mitigates a lot of the kick. This is one of the very happy features of this gun I enjoy. You fire where you point it, and reacquisition of your target is quick and painless. It slams forward at a good amount too, which seemed (in my case) to return almost where I originally pulled the trigger at. With proper grip and trigger pull, you really can't go wrong with this gun. If you need to know if there's a round in the chamber, there is a loaded chamber indicator (LCI) on top that easily will let you know if a round is there. To me, I don't need them, as I'll always assume the gun is loaded anyways, but in the thick of things, it's there if you lose count.

Overall outlook: The M&P9c has some drawbacks to the design that may irritate you at first. Some standard features and design choices you want to scratch your head at, but those don't outweigh the functionality and performance of it. For a compact, this gun is a beast in 9mm form, and for the price, you get a great gun for what you pay for. It has versatility, adaptability, good aftermarket parts options, and shoots clean and smooth. While I'm not trying to draw Glock owners/enthusiasts away from their brand of choice, if you are in the market for something new, this is a great alternative. For those whom aren't used to either brand and are looking for a good gun, shop around and don't just go on the advice of one person. Try many brands out. You never know what you'll find that fits you. If I just went on the advise of a couple people, I'd be doing a review on something else. Instead, I did my research, tried out several various brands, and went with this. Yes, I need to fix that poor design in the trigger guard, but it's not a deal breaker for me, and all the other pluses I've had with it far outweigh some plastic I can easily smooth out. In conclusion, very happy with it. I'll be putting another 100 or so rounds down range soon, with confidence in the M&P9c.

Regular M&P's only have a reset travel of around half an inch, they don't have to come anywhere near all the way forward to reset.

Here's a (Much needed IMO) addition to my very small arsenal :

The semi auto AK is a Romanian manufactured version that is imported to the U.S. and modified by M+M Inc.

M+M Inc. M10-762 Features

Cold-hammer forged chrome-lined barrel

Combination gas block and front sight

RPK type rear sight graduated to 1000 meters in 100 meter increments.

M+M single hook trigger group

Elevation and windage adjustable front and rear sights

Removable fire control retaining plate

Hogue rubber OverMolded fore-end with customizable picatinny rails

Hogue rubber OverMolded pistol grip

Available with Phoenix Technology Survival stock (fixed), AR-style Kicklite stock (six position adjusatble with recoil reduction) or AR-style Field Series stock (six position adjustable)

Polymer magazine: Standard AKM double stack 30 round magazine (*30 round magazine as allowed by law) (Cali Compliant shipped with 10 round magazine; Northeast Compliant shipped with 5 round magazine)

M+M Inc. muzzle brake

^Mine didn't come with the picatinny rails, but I can always get those later. This rifle was used, but in like brand new condition, I seriously doubt they put more than 50-100 rounds or so through it.

The muzzle brake is also a flash hider and seems to work quite well, the rifle shoots softer (To me) than most other standard AK's thanks to the soft rubber on the stock (Mine has the Phonix Technology stock), I might try the the AR style kicklite stock later on.

The rifle as reviews have stated, is quite accurate for an AK, one reviewer actually got 1-1.5 MoA out of theres with decent optics and compared it favorably to their $1000+ Arsenal made AK which is really saying something. I was shooting at around 40 yards and had no problems hitting 2 liter coke bottles with ease doing slow fire and double and triple taps as well.

Trigger is the best I've seen on an AK and better than most AR's I've tried, trigger pull is right at 4 lbs and breaks like glass. No way in Hell you're going to disturb your sight picture with this trigger.

I paid $570 which was a good price

The pistol I traded my M&P 9c for is the full sized M&P Pro Series 9mm and has a really nice 5 lb trigger and night sights. Came with two 17 round mags. The back strap as you can see in the picture, is a rubber rough texture and really keeps the gun from slipping quite well.

Better pic of the M&P Pro Series :

[peter]

How much do AK's usually run in the States? Up here in Canada, they're *ucking prohibited items, so we can only buy deavticated ones (deactivated means permafucted and no hope to make it ever work again) for $1k.

[peter]

Got a few new toys since my last picture post:

Savage Mark II TRR SR. Something to plink with when I'm too cheap to run the match .308 ammo. Nice little rifle, comes with a threaded barrel for a suppressor I'll never be able to own....don't see any point of putting on a break or comp on a .22lr but might just get one because for looks because it looks better than the thread protector. The only downside to this rifle is it cost more than my Savage 10TR....wtf.

Millett LRS 6-25x56mm with the ATAC pattern for my M14. Color almost matches, so I'm probably not going to bother hydrodipping the stock to match the pattern on the glass:

Mounted some airsoft kit on my AR (M203 and the UTG magnifier). I got the 203 to build a wallhanger as a decoration in my gun room, but I had to see what it looked like on my AR first:

Lastly, got some new glass for my 10TR - Bushnell HDMR 3.5-21x50mm with the TreMoR 2, Horus Vision reticle. So far, this is the most expensive scope I own - cost me three times what I paid for my rifle. I know, there are way more expensive scopes out there like S&B, US Optics and Nightforce, but this was a first for me:

Edited August 6, 2014 by peter

[Kyp Durron]

How much do AK's usually run in the States? Up here in Canada, they're *ucking prohibited items, so we can only buy deavticated ones (deactivated means permafucted and no hope to make it ever work again) for $1k.

W...T...F?! $1,000 for a perma deactivated one?! Do they at least buy you dinner first?

Like I said, I paid $570 ($625 out the door tax included), it really depends on what you want. With King er, I mean, President Obama's Decree'sExecutive Orders banning Russian Made AK's, Saiga's are going to go through the roof, they were $700-850+, but I expect them to be somewhere between $1,000-1900 soon. Especially the Saiga 12 gauge versions.

Romanian AK's are in the mid $500's and up depending, the very best off the shelf ones made by Arsenal (Milled receivers) will run you around $1000 or more. My AK that I got normally goes for around $650 pre tax, so I think I did good. Not to mention having an AK that others have found to be 1-1.5 MoA and compares favorably with an Arsenal made AK makes it a keeper.

[anime52k8]

[TangledThorns]

How much do AK's usually run in the States? Up here in Canada, they're *ucking prohibited items, so we can only buy deavticated ones (deactivated means permafucted and no hope to make it ever work again) for $1k.

I've seen them as low as $300 and nicer ones go over $1K. I'd be more interested in a AK-12 if it ever reaches the States but thanks to Putin and Obama that may never happen

[peter]

W...T...F?! $1,000 for a perma deactivated one?! Do they at least buy you dinner first?

Like I said, I paid $570 ($625 out the door tax included), it really depends on what you want. With King er, I mean, President Obama's Decree'sExecutive Orders banning Russian Made AK's, Saiga's are going to go through the roof, they were $700-850+, but I expect them to be somewhere between $1,000-1900 soon. Especially the Saiga 12 gauge versions.

Romanian AK's are in the mid $500's and up depending, the very best off the shelf ones made by Arsenal (Milled receivers) will run you around $1000 or more. My AK that I got normally goes for around $650 pre tax, so I think I did good. Not to mention having an AK that others have found to be 1-1.5 MoA and compares favorably with an Arsenal made AK makes it a keeper.

Oh yea, when it comes to Aks up here in Canadastan, they go in dry.

[Jasonc]

OK, here's an interesting find. I was cleaning up the house we're going to move into (my wife's gandfather's house), and while cleaning out the garage, happened to find in a box, a pretty well conditioned Japanese Type 14 Nambu. Everything matches, and everything seems to work. Also found about 200 rounds in a box inside where it was placed. I know these are somewhat easy to get, but how much do you think it's worth?

[Kyp Durron]

Dammit, why can't I ever find something cool like that?! If it's in good enough condition, from what I just quickly looked up, it could be around the $1,000 range max.

[Jasonc]

Dammit, why can't I ever find something cool like that?! If it's in good enough condition, from what I just quickly looked up, it could be around the $1,000 range max.

I'm looking around, and getting everything from $300 to around $1000. I wonder how much the rounds are worth? I believe they're 8mm rounds and there's about 200 of them.

[ErikElvis]

thats pretty friggin cool. id love to find one of those at grandpas house. he was in england during WW2 and could have brought home basically anything German that he wanted. but didn't.....

[peter]

Not sure if you folks can appreciate this, but US-made Colt ARs have been selling in Canada for about $2,000-2,500 for the last decade or so, and it’s made buying an AR with the pony roll-mark kind of a pain in the dick. Even Bushmasters go for at least $1,500 and DPMS ARs run about $1,200. So for the last little while, a lot of Canadians who can’t afford to buy a $2,500 Colt have opted for the Chinese-made Norinco ARs, which would set you back about $700. They’re ugly (the finish that is) but durable, just like their M14 and 1911 clones, and they run just fine, with lemons few and far between.

We’ve always eyeballed the prices of ARs at American Walmarts with extreme jealousy....that is until recently. There’s a little outfit called irunguns.com that’s been stirring the pot up here in the firearms market and recently, they’ve been bringing in US-made ARs for US prices. It’s probably nothing special to a lot of you guys, but I just picked up a Colt LE6920, which would have been a totally absurd thing for me to do a few years ago. Colt Canada is still dicking us around trying to sell their ARs for $2,200, but a lot of us are finally able to get our greedy little hands on a Colt without losing our left nut and kidney in the process.

Here's my new Colt (FDE furniture) next to my Norinco M4gery (OD Green furniture).

I wasn't a big fan of the Norinco roll marks so I had it engraved to match the work rifle. Some say it's sacrilage to engraving "made in Canada" on a Chinese rifle, but the civvie version doesn't come with the same roll marks and the ones that appear on the real deal will never be released for sale to the public.

Mine:

The real deal:

Edited September 4, 2014 by peter

[peter]

Well, I needed another AR like I need a hole in the head, but I just had to have this one. It's a bit different than my others in that it came with a cold hammer forged 20" barrel

Basically, this rifle minus the fun switch:

Threw on some rails and a Bushy I had laying around for now, at least till I find some money for an Elcan Specter DR:

[Jasonc]

It's been super quiet here. Anybody get any good stuff for Christmas, or anytime in the last couple months?

[peter]

Haha, yeah, I didn't bother because I was starting to think I was the only one playing in this thread, but the wify bought me a new shotgun for Christmas:

Of course, the little lady needed some accessories:

She just doesn't really know about it yet.....

Also peiced together another 10/22 build out of bits and peices laying around:

And got a new barrel for my first 10/22:

Also got a few accessories for my 870 and M4:

Shot of the shorties with their longer brothers:

Edited January 14, 2015 by peter

[peter]

Any of you guys do any long range shooting? I'm just getting into the game and broke my 600m cherry a two months ago, hopefully we can try to reach out to 1,000m next time. My two rigs:








My pal going for the 625m gong:



The sound of the round hitting the gong is so rewarding. Vid of my dialing in to 625m:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y0cd5dbSEo#t=108

I just realized how much Canadians actually say "eh"..

Edited January 13, 2015 by peter

[TangledThorns]

I got a new suppressor a couple of months ago. It's a Osprey 9mm. I have yet to take it to the range, I plan to do that in the Spring time when its warmer out

[peter]

I got a new suppressor a couple of months ago. It's a Osprey 9mm. I have yet to take it to the range, I plan to do that in the Spring time when its warmer out

Ah, suppressors, the things of dreams. North of the border, these items are a major no-no, despite the endless debate about hearing safety. In some countries, suppressors, like automotive mufflers, are mandatory at certain ranges and for hunting.

And to grip a little bit more on seeing your picture, pistols are restricted to a maximum 10-round cap, and mag fed semi-auto rifles are restricted to a 5-round cap (semi auto shotguns are also restricted to 5 rounds in the tube).

Edited January 14, 2015 by peter

[shake]

sling my buddy made

[peter]

Nice job, more pics of the rifle?

[shake]

I'll have more coming up next week plus images from SHOT show

[peter]

YES! Pics from Shot Show please!

[TangledThorns]

I'll have more coming up next week plus images from SHOT show

I'm jealous, I always wanted to go to a Shot Show. If you can please report on Desert Tech's MDR bullpups, those have most of my interest right now.

[peter]

Apparently they have guns at Shot Shot

Ok, those last few had nothing to do with Shotshow, but there were firearms in it so it's not off-topic.

Edited January 20, 2015 by peter

[Jasonc]

Nice updates, guys. I've been in a bit of a hold buying stuff, as I'm preparing for the move. If anything, my next purchase is going to be a sturdy gun safe for the upstairs walk in closet and night stand. Might also need to search a good place to store for quick secure access downstairs. It's actually a pretty big house, but seeing how bold some people get nowadays, I think I'll need a few store places. Any suggestions?

[TangledThorns]

I'm the market for a safe as well, especially since I just became a dad. I don't need anything super fancy. I'm looking for a larger fire proof 22-24 gun safe and a smaller same by my nightstand. Both mechanical locks but the smaller one has only a few buttons.

[peter]

http://tacticalwalls.com/shop/

[Jasonc]

Thanks. Those actually look quite fancy and stylish. I will need a real safe that's fireproof as well, but these might be good for concealment downstairs.

[Roy Focker]

Did anyone see pics of the MPA930DMG Pistol?

I saw it on Facebook and thought it looked like CLMP .45 machine pistol from Macross.

[peter]

Don't see much small arms action in Macross, but yeah, it does have some resemblence.

Would be awesome to pick one of these up and McGyver something real to fit inside it. But this thing being plastic, maybe nothing more than a 10/22 or something else in .22lr.

Worthy note - nice trigger finger control on the model's part.

Edited January 23, 2015 by peter

[peter]

Found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyZotfFLsXk&src_vid=3htG_a2bYI8&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_3949225843

[Dio]

I'm the market for a safe as well, especially since I just became a dad. I don't need anything super fancy. I'm looking for a larger fire proof 22-24 gun safe and a smaller same by my nightstand. Both mechanical locks but the smaller one has only a few buttons.

If you have room for it, Liberty makes the best safes I have ever used. Great warranty service, too - after we had a lightning strike a couple years ago, they replaced my burnt-out interior lighting setup no questions asked.

[shake]

Leupold booth